I LOVE KAL Moulds!

[RMulhern]

Fellows....all BS aside I really enjoy casting using KAL moulds! I've worked with hollow-based moulds of several makes over the years and oft times it's a pure PITA getting the bullets to drop out of a nose pour mould once cast but such hasn't been the case using Red River Rick's KAL moulds! Generally I just slightly tilt the mould after I've cut the sprue and the bullet drops right out or maybe just one light tap on the handle and out it drops! These are some 45s I just cast and my!!!!....are they gonna shoot good! Total weight range on these is 550.1 - 550.4 grs. so these will soon be patched and loaded!:castmine:[smilie=w::drinks:

I had been having a little problem with a very light fingernail edge left around the meplat on a previous Lot I cast but good ole powderburner solved that problem for me this morning by reminding me that he always cast with a fairly loose sprue plate and.....since I've been casting bullets since 1948 I knew that also but fellows....when ya start pushing on the years....sometimes the ole memory has to take a 'hit or two' before coming back online!! I checked and sure enough the sprue plate was just a tat tight for if too tight it will not vent correctly! These I just cast turned out great and gone is that fingernail edge!!

Thanks Dean!!


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7162/6721341623_ba1799933b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/61286670@N08/6721341623/)
KAL550* (http://www.flickr.com/photos/61286670@N08/6721341623/) by Sharps45 2 7/8 (http://www.flickr.com/people/61286670@N08/), on Flickr

[WARD O]

Those boolits look very nice. I've been thinking it is just about time to buy one of his moulds. Would you mind telling me - is that one of his adjustable moulds? Which nose style is it? I'll be shooting it in a standard chamber Shiloh in either 45-70 or 45-90.

Thanks
Ward

[nanuk]

nice consistant weight for a heavy boolit

is this the norm for you?

You must have your technique down PAT!

[powderburnerr]

rick you are welcome , glad that some thing in all my blather worked for you,

[Yellowhouse]

Another vote for KAL....and yep Dean was the one that pointed me in that direction.

[RMulhern]

Those boolits look very nice. I've been thinking it is just about time to buy one of his moulds. Would you mind telling me - is that one of his adjustable moulds? Which nose style is it? I'll be shooting it in a standard chamber Shiloh in either 45-70 or 45-90.

Thanks
Ward

WARD O

This is the KAL .45-TGBS-440 and yes it is the adjustable mould! Should work well in the 90. Wouldn't go over possibly 520-525 grs in the 70!

[RMulhern]

nice consistant weight for a heavy boolit

is this the norm for you?

You must have your technique down PAT!

nanuk

When I was 8 years old my Dad told me I could shoot all I wanted to....as long as I cast my own bullets! An 03A3 Springfield had lots of lead bullets run through it and then there were the 'wheel guns' to cast for! :grin::lovebooli

[MikeT]

Rick,

What alloy are you casting?

Does the cup-base actually flare out upon firing faster than a flat base bullet?

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[RMulhern]

MikeT

Shooting 1-40 alloy but as for the faster flare can't say! These have a fairly wide skirt and the cupped base isn't that deep at .052". I use a .060" VW adjacent the bullet.

[Lead pot]

It looks like the cup is pretty deep even with a heavy skirt like that bullet has it should, but most of the setback comes from the front back do to acceleration. With the multi wad stack and lube wad if it is used I dont think the skirt will blow out like a mini will, but I think the wad stack might go into the cavity and push some out.

[shooter93]

A lot is talked about the older molds like Hensley etc, and they are great, but the Molds from the custom guys at this site are really exceptional molds. We are truly very lucky to have so many of them.

[RMulhern]

It looks like the cup is pretty deep even with a heavy skirt like that bullet has it should, but most of the setback comes from the front back do to acceleration. With the multi wad stack and lube wad if it is used I dont think the skirt will blow out like a mini will, but I think the wad stack might go into the cavity and push some out.

Kurt

Have you got Mann's book The Bullet's Flight? If not....I'm gonna send you something to read!

[Lead pot]

A lot is talked about the older molds like Hensley etc, and they are great, but the Molds from the custom guys at this site are really exceptional molds. We are truly very lucky to have so many of them.

If they were around back 50 years ago when I started swaging I wouldn't have all this swage equipment I have because I could not get the quality bullet I wanted.
I'm thinking about getting a couple tables at a gun show and clean out my shop and get rid of the swage equipment because of the cost getting dies and long waiting time getting them.
I can cast a good quality bullet that will not take the back seat to a swaged bullet with the moulds available now days.

Lp.

[Lead pot]

Kurt

Have you got Mann's book The Bullet's Flight? If not....I'm gonna send you something to read!

From powder to target?? I have read it Rick.

Tnx.

[Don McDowell]

Mike T good to see you here.

[powderburnerr]

with a proper wad stack behind that bullet base it comes out the barrel just like it went in , I spent quite a lot of time working on my wads to get it there and what mostly happened was the inside of the skirt caved in to the center and the skirt was tapered on the edge towards the center , , this thicker base would resist the effects of the charge way better than first shallow base ,

[WARD O]

Would you care to offer some advice on selection of nose style? Why did you pick the TGBS shape?

Thanks
Ward

[powderburnerr]

it is a very old 1000 yard bullet design , and I am not a designer but like origional kinda stuff, so I says if it worked then why not now, and it turned out pretty good ,

[Lead pot]

Dean.

When Rick got his first mould for the .50 he sent me a bunch to shoot and recover some to see why he was getting erratic groups and I found the patch folded into the wrinkles on the base of the skirts. I felt that it came from the cup was to deep and skirts to thin when the heavy load of 118 grains of 1F exp powder I think I used back then.
I twisted the tail on some and some I just folded under. Every one I recovered had the patch still in the lead folds of the base recovered at the 130 yard trap.
I still have the photo's if you would like to see them.
I think that Rick widened the skirts and swallowed up the cup and that solved it. Rick correct me if I'm wrong on this.
For the .50 I prefer a skirt of .070" and a .045 deep dish base instead of a cup base for a wider bullet like the .50.
I made up several base punches for the swage dies fron dish to the hollow base and the flat and shallow dish bases looked the best on paper and the recovered bullets had less damage to the base rims.

[powderburnerr]

the first skirt was too thin on the bullet the second one he made was pretty close to 70 maybe like 60 -65 , dont remember now , and it was about 50 deep ,I saw your photos , and figured something would go south with 118 gns , that bullet was designed to shoot with moderate velocitys in a soft alloy , and if kept in the quiet range of about 100 gns it works fine , if you push it it kinda dont like it,I use one alloy I just balance the powder to get it to do what I want,

its a lot like the money bullet , in that it works best one way , and if you want to try to get it to do something different the results may not be the best.

[Lead pot]

Dean.

I used that powder load because it because Rick was using 120 or 122 grains with his loads, I dont recall right now but that is close.
I use 110 grains with my loads.

[powderburnerr]

I absolutely understand what you did ,

[RMulhern]

Dean.

When Rick got his first mould for the .50 he sent me a bunch to shoot and recover some to see why he was getting erratic groups and I found the patch folded into the wrinkles on the base of the skirts. I felt that it came from the cup was to deep and skirts to thin when the heavy load of 118 grains of 1F exp powder I think I used back then.
I twisted the tail on some and some I just folded under. Every one I recovered had the patch still in the lead folds of the base recovered at the 130 yard trap.
I still have the photo's if you would like to see them.
I think that Rick widened the skirts and swallowed up the cup and that solved it. Rick correct me if I'm wrong on this.
For the .50 I prefer a skirt of .070" and a .045 deep dish base instead of a cup base for a wider bullet like the .50.
I made up several base punches for the swage dies fron dish to the hollow base and the flat and shallow dish bases looked the best on paper and the recovered bullets had less damage to the base rims.

Kurt

That's pretty much the way it was as you describe! Rick made me a second mould and I had him shallow up the cupped base to .050" as IIRC the first base depth was .080" and the skirt was increased in width also. As an aside issue...let's discuss and kick around something here a minute! I can't recall if you shot those I sent to you patched to bore...or groove diameter? By the way, the book I have here of Mann's is 'the Bullet's Flight' ....NOT 'The Bullet's Flight from Powder to Target' as I think there was possibly a revised issue?? In my book Dr Mann wholly and totally was a confirmed believer from his many years of testing with BP and lead bullets that bore diameter patched bullets out-shot for accuracy any bullets patched to groove diameter as he made several references to this in his data presented. His data also showed (if I understand correctly) that when a lead bullet is patched to groove diameter....that many of his recovered bullets which were shot into a trap-box of sawdust and oil that the bullet would become 'wasp-waisted'...smaller in the mid region than at base or nose! That jarred my memory about one series of photos you posted once showing this same effect IIRC on one of the bullets shown! Your question was "what caused this"? Mann pretty much proved to himself that what was taking place in many instances was that the bullets patched to groove diameter or slightly over at time of ignition was that the nose started moving BEFORE the base was fully upset but as upset increased the base started to 'grab' the grooves and due to initial inertia applied that this was enough to cause the alloy to move at the nose area stretching the bullet at the mid section! Kurt...I know you sometimes patch to slightly over groove-diameter and at the time you shot the bullets that I sent.....did your .50 have the standard chamber or possibly a 7* leade??:idea: Mann was also equipped with enough intellect to state that even though his data and testing conclusions went against common thinking of the day...that he had no doubts as to his theory and testing results being correct!

[Lead pot]

Ok Rick.

I just dug out the file of this session. The bullet was 1.409 long diameter was .494 weight was 645 gr. I don't know what alloy you used, the cup was .07983 deep and the skirt was .070 thick. The paper I used was 75% cotton cockle onion skin .0016" dry patched to .50000
Load wad 118 gr of 1F goex express powder distance to impact was 128 yards and 10 feet.
My remark after shooting was mild recoil, gotta git some of these :smile:

The .50 has the now standard chamber I have not changed it because it shoots good as is but there is the nagging paper ring and lead ring if I shoot greasers in it. I doubt that I will ever change the throat in it. I font fix what don't need fixing.

The wasp thing.
I spent a lot of time on this because I saw it to often and it concerned me.
Rick what I found was the soft alloy 1/40 to pure lead bullets patched to under bore diameter with the .45 degree chamber end seated in the case deep at .300" or more using a soft alloy. I never found any signs when the bullet was patched slightly under bore diameter with the bullet seated in the case less then .250" and never when the soft bullets were patched at groove or slightly over bore diameter.
I patch to several different diameters depending on the throat the rifle has that allows me to patch tight. I get the best accuracy with a patch .002-.003 over bore diameter. My unpatched bullet is .446 and .444 and for those I use .0018 100% cockle cotton paper in the .45 with a 5°/2.5° compound lead.
The .50 It does not seem to make any difference if I patch .002 under or to groove. I have bullets for both.

The wasp thing again.

The harder the bullet gets pushed the longer the stretch signs are but the bullet is still shorter then the unfired except for the .308 diameter I shot out of the .30-30 with micro groove bore. Those bullets were actually longer by quite a bit when I pushed them to hard.

I think the wasp effect starts when the bullet is deep in the case and when the charge goes off the bullet starts to move and fully expands and gets caught in the gap between the case mouth and that .45° wall at the chamber end while the front of the bullet is still moving sort of like a rubber band with two knots at the end one gets caught and the other one keeps going.