C'mon Sinclare.. Lee does it for 9 bucks

[milprileb]

Sinclare, the boutique of reloading gear and not cheap but they do have nice stuff and some of it unique to our needs.

They got a sale now, their brand of decapping die for $35.

Lee sells a bullet proof, simple, rugged, well made, idiot proof decap die for $9
which does everything that the higher priced one does but its does one thing
better: its not a rip off.

We ain't talking about some micrometer seating die or special coated die for FL sizing or a bushing die, we are talking knocking out a primer which is pretty lame and basic.

$35 ??? :groner:[smilie=b::killingpc:holysheep:!::Fire::violin::dun g_hits_fan:

[hk33ka1]

I know, even the biggest Lee hater can't deny the value had for $7.98 in this die.

[Ben]

Oh, but if you paid $35 for it, wouldn't it automatically be much better ??????????????

[rsrocket1]

Oh, but if you paid $35 for it, wouldn't it automatically be much better ??????????????

Only if you painted it blue. :kidding:

[bstarling]

I have been known to use a sharpened nail, back in the day.

Bill

[Westwindmike]

I've found my Lee 45-70 sizing die deprimes almost any cartridge that I load for, down to .223.

[1hole]

"Oh, but if you paid $35 for it, wouldn't it automatically be much better ?????????????? "

There is a mindset that subscribes to that premise and Sinclair is simply offering them a chance to waste more of their elitist money. I say, "More power to Sinclair, make those people happy!" :)

[fryboy]

( and make more profit for the stock holders - ie; win win so buy two :P ) besides how many people brag about using a lee ? so perhaps that's where the extra $25 goes ( see it isnt wasted )

[Johnk454]

I never whine about something I believe overpriced, I just exercise my freedom of choice and move on.

Correct spelling is "Sinclair" not "Sinclare". Just in case someone wants to look them up.

[cheese1566]

Some guys gloat more about what they have on the reloading bench,
then what they can produce on the shooting bench!

[nanuk]

I have been known to use a sharpened nail, back in the day.

Bill


and if you find a rusty one on the street, clean it off on the sidewalk, sharpen the tip on a rock and use the rock as a "Wacker" it will save you another $7.95 plus some taxes.

that $7.95 can buy you another 500 or so used lube grooves from Waksupi

[Recluse]

Some guys gloat more about what they have on the reloading bench,
then what they can produce on the shooting bench!

THAT, my friend, is brilliant and so true!

VERY well stated.

In fact, I think I'm going to print that, put it in a small frame and hang it above my reloading bench.

:coffee:

[Bret4207]

Some guys gloat more about what they have on the reloading bench,
then what they can produce on the shooting bench!

Man, ain't that the truth! Same with lots of other things. Kinda like the Harbor Freight/Craftsman/Snap On argument or the SKS/ top of the line AR platform argument or the beat up old pot on a hot plate/RCBS Pro-Melt argument or the ratty old Mac 7-10/brandy new Stihl MS441 argument. To each their own. I've got nothing against buying nice stuff, I LOVE nice stuff. But when push comes to shove getting the job done is all that matters.

[Reload3006]

My dogs better than your dog My dog is better than yours My dogs better cuz he eats kenel ration my dogs better than yours LMAO. REALLY?
People buy expensive tools justify their purchase guys buy cheap tools justify their purchase. I buy what i like and can afford. I make ammo that is better than my abilities as a shooter. As I am sure is true for most of us. I like some lee stuff and hate others. I own a little of every ones for one reason or another. People need to lighten up Lee bashers bash lee Lee lovers fawn for Lee both fighting for superiority. I own dillon RCBS Hornady Sinclair ETC. I also Own some Lee stuff. If you are a lee lover use it with pride if your a Dillon owner use it with pride. Lee people get over your inferiority complex Dillon folks quit looking down your nose at Lee owners .... Give me a break .....My dogs better than yours <Shaking head with disgust>

[1hole]

"Lee people get over your inferiority complex "

I know of no "Lee people" with an inferioty complex. Most of us who defend Lee against the bashers do so while laffing at the silly arguments of snobbish elitists! ;)

[Mike Kerr]

This is a good thread. Full of "internet jewels" and humor. Thing is - they are so true I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

regards,

:smile::smile::smile:

[scrapcan]

maybe the extras is for a real lock ring on the die.

[462]

American capitalism is the best form of commerce ever devised by man. Obviously, there are enough reloaders willing to spend the $35, to justify the die's availability.

[Green Frog]

I buy what I think I need to get the job done. When somebody comes along with a cheaper or a better way to do it, I usually listen to their explanation of how, and decide whether or not to change. If I am going to use something a lot, I will generally tend to spend a little more on fit and finish for both comfort in service and pride of ownership. Well used utility grade stuff speaks of a serious workman, shiny new (unused) expensive tools speak of a wannabe. JMHO, but it's mine and I like it! ;)

Froggie

[Moondawg]

I dunno, I have bought tools from Harbor Freight that didn't last past the first time I used it or put stress on it. They don't want to exchange it either. I am currently using Craftsman tools that are over 50 years old. On wrenches etc. if you can break it, take it back to sears and they will replace it. I am still using a 1/4" Craftsman electric drill that was purchased new in 1953. It still does the job. Cheap isn't always best. Buy cheap and pay twice. Buy quality and pay once.

[BerdanIII]

"Lee sells a bullet proof, simple, rugged, well made, idiot proof decap die..."

Dunno about that; I broke my decapping pin. :oops:

Lee sent me two new ones, though. Gratis.

[jcwit]

Also remember its not truly Sinclair anymore but its owned by Brownells.

Read their business motto regarding retail purchasing.


I dunno, I have bought tools from Harbor Freight that didn't last past the first time I used it or put stress on it. They don't want to exchange it either.

Never had that problem getting a replacement, but then I've only ever needed to get a Phillips screwdriver replaced, they replaced the whole set, no questions asked.

[milprileb]

I should have titled this : A Fool and His Money.

However, I don't much see paying more for the same tool for something
as lame as decapping primers makes any sense but ... I don't own Snap
On Tools and like Craftsman just fine.

I ain't justifying any brand or purchase.

[Bret4207]

I dunno, I have bought tools from Harbor Freight that didn't last past the first time I used it or put stress on it. They don't want to exchange it either. I am currently using Craftsman tools that are over 50 years old. On wrenches etc. if you can break it, take it back to sears and they will replace it. I am still using a 1/4" Craftsman electric drill that was purchased new in 1953. It still does the job. Cheap isn't always best. Buy cheap and pay twice. Buy quality and pay once.

HF has a no questions asked replacement policy so far as I know.

BTW- your 1/4 Craftsman drill WAS a cheapy back in '53.

[Char-Gar]

Interesting thread. I note that if somebody bashes Lee stuff in favor of higher price stuff, Lee uses arrive in hoards wanting you to respect their choice. Put the shoe on the other foot, and folks throw stones at Sinclair's higher price stuff.

Human beings are strange critters.

[Bret4207]

It all works within reason CharGar. That's the point I guess. The other part is the whole "tool snob" end of it. That's just irritating.

[Char-Gar]

It all works within reason CharGar. That's the point I guess. The other part is the whole "tool snob" end of it. That's just irritating.

"within reason"......Ay, there is the rub!

[Walt]

There are some folks who will never understand the joy others get when getting by using el-cheapo tools. On the other hand there some of those that don't understand the pride (necessity for professionals) associated with using the very best tool for the job. So let's just get on with life. :)

[btroj]

My feelings thatif you want the "nicer" die from Sinclair then buy it. If the Lee fits our needs, then buy it.

I don't get the pointof complaining that one place sells it for one price and another sells there own for a different price. Is Sinclair bound by some obligation to price match with Lee? Sinclair obviously feels they have a market for a die at their price.

Just buy the darn die you want and get in with life. Isn't really that big a deal?

[Shooter6br]

Same as a guy who buys a Land Rover Vs a Chevy

[doubledown]

To the OP and assorted followers, spoken like true liberals. If its not good for you it can't be good for anyone else, so lets knock it AND those who buy it. I say we force all relaoding companies out of busssines, except for LEE, that will teach them.

Take a step back and look at what your saying, instead of a lee primer insert, healthcare or any other topic being forced down our thoats. another good one, lets hate people with more money than we have, class warfare.

What happened to the America I grew up in, I know people that spend more on lunch than I make in a week, I don't hate them.

Its to the point now where we are knocking each other ( fellow reloaders, shooters,hunters) I get it, Sinclair primer costs four times what a lee does, I have three lee hand primers, that doesnt make the buyer of a sinclair primer a moron, he chose a different brand than I did. I'm just glad WE had the freedom to choose, im glad more than one company is making them, and i'm sure the direction our country is headed, before long we will have alot more to worry about than an overpriced hand primer.

[Tonto]

Fun to read. My bench has red, green and some orange. People subscribe to brand "pressure" differently. Some are willing to pay more equating that to quality directly. Others shop for a price bargain with function. Cadillac made a fortune catering to this trait. Sure, often you get what you pay for. I don't knock either approach and am glad we have choices. We are spoiled here. I remember shopping in central Europe in the early 90's. You could choose from one of about everything. Manufacturer performance changes over time. They all have their ups and downs. Those with more downs, eventually disappear. The marketplace is brutal. So red haters, lighten up. Blue lovers, good for you. While we squabble, the real threats to this aspect of the shooting sports is enjoying the wedge we help create.

[hiram1]

Buy cheap and cry twice. Buy quality and cry once.my dad told me a long time ago.and he was true telling me that.

[c3d4b2]

Correct spelling is "Sinclair" not "Sinclare". Just in case someone wants to look them up.

I thought it was spelled "Brownells". :twisted:

[Johnk454]

I thought it was spelled "Brownells". :twisted:

No... not unless you spelled Smith&Wesson "Bangor Punta" back in the day.

You'd need to know a date of manufacture to know how to spell Bobcat (skidsteer) - it might be "Ingersoll Rand" or "Doosan".

[SquirrelHollow]

I know, even the biggest Lee hater can't deny the value had for $7.98 in this die.

I'll deny it. I hate Lee's stupid collet, that can never be properly torqued. Their "unbreakable" decapping pins break far more often than people like to admit. And, I absolutely loath the ridiculous excuse for a lock ring/nut, that Lee puts on their dies.

Hornady and RCBS both offer a product with more value. I haven't used Sinclair's, and won't comment on it.

[c3d4b2]

I thought it was spelled "Brownells".


No... not unless you spelled Smith&Wesson "Bangor Punta" back in the day.

Brownells purchase Sinclair a few years back. (I use to make a road trip to Fort Wayne to buy my powder and primers.) Brownells purchased Sinclair, closed down the Indiana sales operation and folded the Sinclair goods into their operation in Iowa. Last year at Perry most of the products in the Sinclair store on commercial row had brownell stickers on the boxes.

Check the tabs at the top of the Brownells page. http://www.brownells.com/

[Johnk454]

Brownells purchase Sinclair a few years back. (I use to make a road trip to Fort Wayne to buy my powder and primers.) Brownells purchased Sinclair, closed down the Indiana sales operation and folded the Sinclair goods into their operation in Iowa. Last year at Perry most of the products in the Sinclair store on commercial row had brownell stickers on the boxes.

Check the tabs at the top of the Brownells page. http://www.brownells.com/

I'm well aware of Sinclair selling to Brownell's - my point was many companies are owned or controlled by someone else - and continue to operate under their known name, not the new owner's.

[jcwit]

I'll deny it. I hate Lee's stupid collet, that can never be properly torqued. Their "unbreakable" decapping pins break far more often than people like to admit. And, I absolutely loath the ridiculous excuse for a lock ring/nut, that Lee puts on their dies.

Hornady and RCBS both offer a product with more value. I haven't used Sinclair's, and won't comment on it.

That is a matter of opinion, and not necessarily everyones elses experience.

[jcwit]

Buy cheap and cry twice.

Not always true, I was witness on a car title a number of years ago for a car that had less that 500 miles on it and sold for $10.00. Yes, thats "TEN" dollars, new car, less than 500 miles, and less than 3 months off the dealer lot.

I'd call that cheap and believe me no one cried about owning that car for 6 years.

I watched a 30 foot cabin cruiser sell for 500 dollars with the trailer, the cruiser was less than 2 years old. Cheap price, I say so, no tears shed there either.

Myself, I purchased a Winchester model 52, in excellent condition, complete with the redfielf sights as it came from the factory, all accessories encluding the sling, hand stop, single shot adapter, 5 rounmd and 10 round magazine, even with the hang tags, cost? A cool $50.00
Cheap, yup, havent cried yet.

How about a new Sinclair Arbor Press purchased from Sinclair when they were still in New Haven, IN, just outside Fort Wayne, IN, paid $35.00 cash for it at their store, the ones off the shelf were going for $110.00. Cheap, yup again.

Price of an item is not the measure of quality, value is the measure of quality and usefullness.

All depends if folks wish to shop for price and afford quality, mayhap this was why I was a Procurement Officer for one of the largest RV manufactures till I started my own suscessful business.

[Char-Gar]

jcwit... When I read about "cheap" in reference to Lee products, I do not think about the price. I think about quality and usefulness as you stated.

Most often products that sell cheaply are made cheaply. Again, most often that "cheapness" refers to shortcuts and substitutions in quality and performance. A higher price is no guarantee of better quality and performance, but most often that is the case.

I also factor longevity into my understanding of cheapness. A product that costs twice as much is a better value if it last four times longer.

There is also the factor of how well the product performs out of the box. I read many threads here about folks sharing how they fixed Lee products and/or got them to work correctly. I don't consider products that don't work well to be a good value because they cost less.

If quality and performance can be bought for a lower price, I am all over that! But if I have to pay more for quality, longevity and performance I am all over that as well.

A fellow has the right to use his reloading dollar any way he see fit. What I don't get is this large Lee cult that seems to exist. Suggest that anything Lee may not be a good value, and these folks rise up in mass to defend their color.

I have four presses on my bench of different makes (Pacific, Herters, RCBS and Redding), and three of them are well over a half century old. The baby is a Redding turret that is a scant 15 years old. I have owned two Lee presses. One was given to a guy starting out and needed a press. The other was turned into a trot line weight.

Sinclair markets high priced and high quality tools for the reloader. I buy from them now and then. But, I have no brand loyalty to them. I will seek the highest quality for the best price. I was born in 1942 and raised by Grandparents that were born in the 1880s. They did not, nor do ,I buy something new just because it is new, nor do we throw stuff out because it is old. I expect everything I buy (with the exception of motor vehicles) and own to last my life span and give good service the entire time.

[jimkim]

I've grown to think maybe I just have the best luck on the planet. I've only broken one Lee decapping pin. My Lee lockrings work. My collets are tight enough to hold my decappers. My Lee moulds cast good bullets. My Lee powder measures work as good as or better than my RCBS and Hornady powder measures. My ammo loaded with Lee dies is as accurate as that loaded with my Herters, Pacific, Hornady, Lyman and RCBS dies. My Lee presses are as well made as my Dillon and RCBS presses. They are just of a different design. Overall I've had no more problems with Lee than I have with RCBS, Hornady, or Lyman. They have always sent me free parts unless I was ordering new ones or upgrades. The only company that didn't was Lyman.

I don't doubt what people say. I used to, but too many people with whom I have great respect have had problems with Lee stuff, and I trust them. It's just my experience has been completely different and unless something drastic happens, I'll keep using and recommending Lee products. I wont recommend all of them, but I will recommend most of them.

[Char-Gar]

jimkin...Allot of our experience with tools depends on what we expect from them and how we handle them. There are some folks who could break an anvil if they had one.

My issues with Lee presses had to to with critical tolerances in the ammo produced. This was back in the early 80's and I am informed that was an issue back them, but Lee has fixed the problem.

I have no doubt that is true, but as the old saying goes "once burned, twice shy". I just walked away from Lee and saw no reason to buy new stuff, just to find out if they fixed the glitches.

The bottom line is our own expectations and experiences are the only ones that matter. What ever brand of whatever, we buy, if it meets our expectations and makes us happy, the it is brand for us.

[Reload3006]

I do not like Lee presses. IT has nothing to do with the quality with which they are made. I do not like that Lee has designed their presses to not "Cam Over" IMO (and I know every single lee user will scream yes I can) If you want consistent results you cannot rely on feel Lee presses make you rely on feel If you set up a press that cams over to complete its work at cam over it will repeat each and every time regardless of feel.

Lee makes a good rugged press that will give its user a life time of service. It is less expensive. If it cammed over I would own one. But alas they dont. So I Dont.

[SquirrelHollow]

That is a matter of opinion, and not necessarily everyones elses experience.

How does one measure "value", if it is not based upon personal experience.

Am I supposed to surrender to the masses, because my experience differs?

I wasn't aware that the reloading community was adopting communism, when people don't like Lee tools.

[jcwit]

How does one measure "value", if it is not based upon personal experience.

Am I supposed to surrender to the masses, because my experience differs?

I wasn't aware that the reloading community was adopting communism, when people don't like Lee tools.

Say what?

[Bret4207]

A fellow has the right to use his reloading dollar any way he see fit. What I don't get is this large Lee cult that seems to exist. Suggest that anything Lee may not be a good value, and these folks rise up in mass to defend their color.



Charles, it happens for the same reason people from here tend to jump all over some guy who starts in with the, "Lead bullets are dangerous! They clog up your barrel, you can't shoot them at more than 600 fps and they won't work in an autoloader or Microgroove no matter what." Same thing for all Harbor Freight/Toyota/Hi Point/Mossberg/Lee/H+R/Iver Johnson/Craftsman/Northern Tool/Poulan/made in China/whatever is junk. Usually this brings out a group of other supporters that go nutso berating any neanderthal that would by anything less than a Dillion/Snap On/H+G/Colt/Kimber/RCBS/Land Rover/etc. It happened for years and years. Finally the Lee/Harbor Freight/Craftsman/$1200.00 truck crowd started talking back and letting people know that it just ain't so.

There's lots of Lee stuff I love and a couple items I despise. To each their own as far as making stuff work. But when tool snobbery rears it's head ("Well of course you get by with Harbor Freight and Craftsman junk, you aren't a REAL mechanic/auto technician/handloader/gunsmith/whatever!") That makes it a more personal issue. I love the fine stuff and I adore the really nice stuff. But there are limits. I'm the kind that looks at the gun porn Stan Tzroniec (sp) puts in Rifle and picks out every flaw in the metal and runout/ over run in the checkering. But I bet that gun still shoots!

It ain't the arrow, it's the indian shooting it.

[Char-Gar]

Bret..Maybe you are right, this is some sort of social class/economic class conflict thing. May it is an elite vs. common man thing, but I don't see it that way. Just because I don't see it that way does not mean it is not so. I have always been an egalatarian sort, so those thoughts just dont seem to find a home in me.

My experience with Lee stuff was early on and negative, so I just stop buying their stuff. When I started reloading, the only thing they had was the old "Lee Loader", and I started with Pacific, RCBS, Redding and Hollywood equipment. Lee's first ventures into direct competition with the aforementioned companies, just did not measure up. That is when I quit them, because I already had better stuff, so saw no need to buy Lee.

I am certain that Lee quality has come up, and is a good value for many folks. It just isn't for me. I do use their cast bullet sizing dies and have some collet neck sizing dies. These are products that do very well for me.

I hope I am not being an eliteist or whatever. Everything I post on this site comes from my experience and not any social context, at least I don't think so. Sometimes my experience is in harmony with the experience of others, and sometimes it is not. That just seems to be the way of it.

[462]

"Everything I post on this site comes from my experience and not any social context, at least I don't think so. Sometimes my experience is in harmony with the experience of others, and sometimes it is not. That just seems to be the way of it."

Char-Gar,
I'm in complete agreement.

If I respond to a thread asking for the opinion of a certain piece of equipment or a particular brand, the response will be based on my experience only. If my experience has been negative, the response will not be meant to disparage the item or brand. My casting and reloading equipment is a motely collection, determined by what works best for me.

Brand or item loyalty is one thing, eliteism, denigration, and disparagement is quite another and uncalled for.

[obssd1958]

:goodpost:

:2_high5:

[Char-Gar]

Eliteism and snobbery, does not always mean I paid more than you paid. Sometimes it means, I paid less than you paid and that makes you a fool. There are folks whoes pride in manifested in their plenty and folks whoes pride is manifested in their little.

I am humble and proud of it!

[462]

Unfortunately, humbleness has fallen by the wayside, along with respect and graditude, and have been replaced by irresponsibility, a me-first, got-to-have-it-now mentality which has brought the country to its current economic predicament.

[Bret4207]

Unfortunately, humbleness has fallen by the wayside, along with respect and graditude, and have been replaced by irresponsibility, a me-first, got-to-have-it-now mentality which has brought the country to its current economic predicament.

Dang man, you hit just about everything that bothers me except fat broads in spandex!

[Longwood]

Unfortunately, humbleness has fallen by the wayside, along with respect and graditude, and have been replaced by irresponsibility, a me-first, got-to-have-it-now mentality which has brought the country to its current economic predicament.

No question about it, america would be way better off if people would not buy EVERYTHING on credit and simply wait till they have the money so they can pay for what they can pay for most items on the spot.
I have heard all of the ridiculous reasons for buying everything with a credit card, but none make any sense to me.
Maybe,,, Just maybe, that is why, in my 70 years, I have never had any major money problems.
It's doable.
I guess some people like paying 20 percent more for everything. Personally, instead of giving it to some rich bank stockholder, I prefer keeping my money and buying 20 percent more stuff.

[303british.com]

Great thread!

I'm not brand loyal either. There are bits and pieces from almost every company on my reloading bench. I have a 2001 press with a universal decapping die that is older than dirt and still works.

My favourite press is a Redding Boss. Worst press I ever saw was a Lee C press.

I like Hornady seating dies and Lee collet dies.

When I started reloading, I used Lee Loaders. I just checked, there's 14 of them. They usually come to the range with me when I'm tinkering with loads or trying to kill some time.

The only Lyman thing I've got is an expanding die for my 45-70.

Today I got a 44 Sp. powder through expanding die for my 44 magnum set. They're handy.

Nails for decapping pins are good too! :)


Thanks for the entertainment, guys. Carry on!

[madsenshooter]

"Oh, but if you paid $35 for it, wouldn't it automatically be much better ?????????????? "

There is a mindset that subscribes to that premise and Sinclair is simply offering them a chance to waste more of their elitist money. I say, "More power to Sinclair, make those people happy!" :)

Yea, I know of cast boolit benchrest shooters get their goodies from Sinclair. They pay that big money for stuff that for the most part is no better than other brands, then gripe about the shipping. Could be worse, I'd have to pay sales tax if I were to order from them.

[gandydancer]

Hello John 454. I punched in Sinclare just for fun and got Sinclair. How about that. $35.00 type people I bet when they get a new car drive around with the price sticker in the window for months"see me--see me" My sister was like that. fur coat and a new caddy and unable to pay her rent. great life. GD

[Char-Gar]

For a couple of years I was using Harbor Freight batteries in my Burris red dot sight on mt 22 race gun used in weekly matches. I had to put in new one at the start of each match and the cost was $1 per.

I ordered some Ray-o-Vac batteries at $3 per and put in new one yesterday after 10 matches. One $3 battery vs. Ten $1 batteries, which is the best value?

Cheap is only good if it renders good value which often it does not.

It would seem we also have some "cheap snobs", as well who look down their noses and poke fun at folks who choose to pay more for something that the cheapest on the market. Isn't human nature interesting?

[Recluse]

For a couple of years I was using Harbor Freight batteries in my Burris red dot sight on mt 22 race gun used in weekly matches. I had to put in new one at the start of each match and the cost was $1 per.

I ordered some Ray-o-Vac batteries at $3 per and put in new one yesterday after 10 matches. One $3 battery vs. Ten $1 batteries, which is the best value?

Cheap is only good if it renders good value which often it does not.

It would seem we also have some "cheap snobs", as well who look down their noses and poke fun at folks who choose to pay more for something that the cheapest on the market. Isn't human nature interesting?

I agree. I've always lived by the financial principle that I want to get as much product as I can for as little money (reasonably) to do the job fully to MY expectations.

The price tag is not always a reflection of either quality or value.

I bought my wife a new Cadillac back in the late 90's. Paid a lot for basically a piece of absolute junk. But everyone who owns a Cadillac told me how "good" they were, and how "well built" they were and how they "lasted."

What a crock. Talk to any mechanic for the truth.

A few years ago, I sold the Cadillac (actually more like gave it away for what we took for it) and bought her a new Avalon (Toyota). Pretty much the same money spent. Difference is, we're still driving the Avalon and will be driving it for many more years. I fully expect to get over 250,000 miles from it with ease and very little repair.

Different brands exist to fill different needs and wants. I bought a Pro1000 back in the late 80's when I was younger and starving in order to feed my voracious IPSC appetite. The only "guff" I got about my choice of press was from the big city IPSC boys who all loaded on Dillon 450s or the new 550.

I gave them their guff back on the trophy platform. Apparently the IPSC targets and steel wasn't concerned over the color of my reloading press.

Today, would I buy another Pro1000 for the same purpose? No way. It'd be a Dillon 650 and for the purposes of cranking out buckets of ammo. No comparison between the two, price tags notwithstanding.

But several decades ago, money was a huge consideration. I could buy the lesser priced press and afford to feed it and shoot, or I could do without the shooting altogether. Easy choice.

I'm not going to go out and buy a Snap-On $300 torque wrench that I will only use once a year for torquing spark plugs when a Craftsman will give me the same exact end result. To me, that's being financially foolish.

But if I were torquing spark plugs every day or even every week, I'd invest in the Snap-On.

Most of the Lee equipment I have has served me extremely well, but some of it has gone either into the trash or Lake Texoma. Keeping it company there is also some Lyman stuff, an RCBS piece, some Frankford Aresenal, etc etc.

It wouldn't surprise me to put on a wetsuit and tank and go take a look at some of the junk I've deep-sixed and find a few Cadillacs there as well. :)

:coffee:

[Bret4207]

For a couple of years I was using Harbor Freight batteries in my Burris red dot sight on mt 22 race gun used in weekly matches. I had to put in new one at the start of each match and the cost was $1 per.

I ordered some Ray-o-Vac batteries at $3 per and put in new one yesterday after 10 matches. One $3 battery vs. Ten $1 batteries, which is the best value?

Cheap is only good if it renders good value which often it does not.

It would seem we also have some "cheap snobs", as well who look down their noses and poke fun at folks who choose to pay more for something that the cheapest on the market. Isn't human nature interesting?

I'm a big fan of rechargables. Better value than either of your choices, or are they?

[1hole]

"But when tool snobbery rears it's head ("Well of course you get by with Harbor Freight and Craftsman junk, you aren't a REAL mechanic/auto technician/handloader/gunsmith/whatever!") That makes it a more personal issue."

Thing about the written page is we can't know the attitude of the writer and therefore readers put their own spin on the words; that's often misplaced about Lee's defenders. I have no emotional attachment to any brand, as such, nor do I disparage any brand but I do get agrivated at unrealistic and unfair comments about anything; Lee gets a LOT of that non-sense. I often see comments something like "My Lee press broke, they're junk!" Well, Lee makes a wide range of presses and without a clue which one they are condemning and some idea of what they did that made it break we really don't get much help from their 'expert' critique. I'm not offended about it but get amused at those who won't - or can't - choose and use any tool for the purposes it was designed; they fail and then fault the tool for it; goodness! I mean, Lee's collet die can't be adjusted? Lee's tiny little C press that obviously wasn't intended for heavy work isn't satisfactory for heavy work? Lee's decap pins get broken and it's the die's fault? Lee's excellant lock nuts that don't lock? I wonder if those guys have ever wondered why so many others happily use the same devices they can't get right!

All brands occasionally let some things less than perfect get out but it gets covered by warranty. If big green or blue were flawless they wouldn't need such great customer support would they? Anyone avoiding a whole line of items based on a single falure - real or perceived - will soon run out of options to buy! :lol:

[303british.com]

Ain't it the truth.

Regardless of what equipment you're using, following instructions is important. Knowing what the tool was designed to do is important. Not forcing it when it does not seem to be working is important...

1. If you pull harder on a press handle, it loads cartridges better.
2. If you pull harder on a press handle, it will "work through" any difficulty you are having.
3. Equipment instructions are only there to keep printers employed. Besides, the instructions are rarely correct anyway. They should be thrown out immediately upon opening the box.
4. When a decapping pin breaks, it's a sign all that company's tools are substandard.
5. You will not crush case necks if you use premium bullets.

There are a lot more, but good reloaders follow these rules religiously.

[Johnk454]

Hello John 454. I punched in Sinclare just for fun and got Sinclair. How about that. $35.00 type people I bet when they get a new car drive around with the price sticker in the window for months"see me--see me" My sister was like that. fur coat and a new caddy and unable to pay her rent. great life. GD

Google adapts well to many levels of education.

Living above one's means is all too common these days. It's not uncommon to see someone on the net complaining about a lack of money... but they have money for tv and an internet connection. There's also the expensive pets - a hallmark of white trash in my area.

[eniku40]

Buy cheap and cry twice. Buy quality and cry once.my dad told me a long time ago.and he was true telling me that.

Not necessarily true. You just need to use judgement when making a purchase. (Car repair shops are full of Jaguars - not so many Hondas).

I got a framing hammer from Harbor Freight for $8.99. Actually, I got 2 assuming that Harbor Freight would be junk and it'd break within a day or two.. Well, I built an entire shed using that hammer and nails (drive close to 40 lbs of nails with that hammer) and the second one still sits untouched.

Evaluate the use and then decide whether the cost is worth it. Which brings us back to the topic at hand - Does Sinclair provide a better device @$35 than Lee @$10? probably not. (but for some people, brand is worth the extra $25 - and that's OK too).

[nicholst55]

maybe the extras is for a real lock ring on the die.

LOL! That is a weak point on the Lee die. I have two of Lee's universal decapper dies. I had never thought about using a .45-70 sizer as a decapping die for other cartridges, though.

[nicholst55]

Ain't it the truth.

Regardless of what equipment you're using, following instructions is important. Knowing what the tool was designed to do is important. Not forcing it when it does not seem to be working is important...

1. If you pull harder on a press handle, it loads cartridges better.
2. If you pull harder on a press handle, it will "work through" any difficulty you are having.
3. Equipment instructions are only there to keep printers employed. Besides, the instructions are rarely correct anyway. They should be thrown out immediately upon opening the box.
4. When a decapping pin breaks, it's a sign all that company's tools are substandard.
5. You will not crush case necks if you use premium bullets.

There are a lot more, but good reloaders follow these rules religiously.

Good to see you here, Steve! I'm a longtime reader of your website.

[303british.com]

Thanks for the welcome, Terry.

I'm still using a Lee decapping die that's older than dirt. When my cases get dirty I use a sonic cleaner, so all the primers have to come out. The original pin is still intact.

Rule number one when operating a press handle, if you need more force than can be applied with one finger, you're doing something wrong.

[Char-Gar]

Thanks for the welcome, Terry.

I'm still using a Lee decapping die that's older than dirt. When my cases get dirty I use a sonic cleaner, so all the primers have to come out. The original pin is still intact.

Rule number one when operating a press handle, if you need more force than can be applied with one finger, you're doing something wrong.

Well, if you are talking about one of King Kong's fingers you may be right, But if you are talking about human fingers you are wrong. This is not to say, it requires great force, but one finger?

[303british.com]

No, I'm talking about your finger.

Cases that are not dirty and, in the case of cast bullets, are flared slightly should not need a lot of force to resize or seat. If you have to wrench down on the handle, something is not right.

[Johnk454]

No offense, Steve, but I'm not buying the "one finger" statement either, if taken literally. Resizing milsurp brass is one example. Brand new brass can hang on expanders unless tumbled first for another.

[303british.com]

If you are talking about decapping military brass then yes, you have to over come the crimp. That will take more than just a light pull on the press handle.

I'm talking about clean cases with no military crimp.

[scrapcan]

Sorry guys the lock ring comment was out of line. It is the one thing I hate about lee dies.

Others love the quick adjust lock ring with the rubber o ring. I just do not like them.
I drilled a few of the lock rings I have and put a grub screw, other dies I replaced it with a real
lock ring with cross bolt.

[Char-Gar]

I don't guess it really matters, but I have a number of presses on my bench, including a good old cast steel RCBS A2. I think trying to FL resize rifle cases with one finger is more retoric to prove a point than reality. On a down stroke press with compound leverage, I guess one could press down on the handle with one finger or thumb enough to lower it and maybe raise it, but it would be would be very uncomfortable and involve far more work than using your hand.

I doubt if very many, if any reloaders stand there and work the press handle with one finger, unless of course they only have one finger.

[Recluse]

Hi Steve, and welcome. I too enjoy your website and work on the .303.

However, I too disagree with the one-finger statement, having used a variety of single-stage presses and a lot of different cases. But I fully agree with the point being that if you have to stand on the handle, something isn't right.





I doubt if very many, if any reloaders stand there and work the press handle with one finger, unless of course they only have one finger.

Whenever I seat a primer crooked or something like that, I often use one finger in particular to communicate to the miscreant case my thoughts. . .

:coffee:

[303british.com]

Everyone is free to disagree. That's what makes the world go 'round.

I clean my cases prior to doing anything with them. I use a sonic cleaner so that all of the dust and crud is removed. That keeps the primer pockets clean and eliminates a lot of the drag on the inside and outside of the cases.

I use bullet lube on my fingers to coat the cases. If I'm reloading bottle necked cases, I use a collet die. If they need FL resizing, I'll grab a Redding body die. For straight walled cases, clean brass works better than dirty stuff.

In all, there's less wear and stress on the dies and on me if the brass is clean. It also reduces the amount of physical effort required.