Contender for 38 special ammo accuracy testing?

[Ficus]

Howdy, All.

I would like to test 38-Spl. ammo for accuracy with my contender because it can be scoped and that works much better than open sights when one has old eyes. I have a .357 barrel but really want to test the same ammo that is fired in a S&W 52.

Does anyone have experience using a Contender to test 38-spl midrange wadcutter ammo for accuracy? How about the Contender's rate-of-twist and its leade.



Advice and opinions welcome!

Ficus

[fryboy]

umm i dont load for a s&w 52 but have a old 357 barrel that has seen way more 38 wadcutters than anything else , the women and kids love it and it's accurate as heck ( without beating them up ) the carbon ring needs cleaned from time to time ( and especially before firing of 357 mags ) the leade will vary between time frames and years of production ( some are better than others and i have no clue if you have a decent one a great one or a mediocre one ) as for twist ... that too varied by years of production but it should be either a 1 in 14" or a 1 in 18" , while we can make extremely accurate ammo for one gun it may shoot totally different in a different one but load and shoot'em up !!

[Ficus]

umm i dont load for a s&w 52 but have a old 357 barrel that has seen way more 38 wadcutters than anything else , the women and kids love it and it's accurate as heck ( without beating them up ) SNIP SNIP SNIP


Thanks, fryboy, for sharing your experience. Idda never guessed that a 357 barrel'd shoot 38 midrange very accurately but will try mine.

I had thought about loading the same bullets in 357 cases and I guess in the back of my mind I knew I'd not be testing ammo for its accuracy in the 52. Maybe this is just me building up an excuse to get another Contender barrel. Pretty lame excuse!

Thanks again,

Ficus

[Larry Gibson]

Howdy, All.

I would like to test 38-Spl. ammo for accuracy with my contender because it can be scoped and that works much better than open sights when one has old eyes. I have a .357 barrel but really want to test the same ammo that is fired in a S&W 52.

Does anyone have experience using a Contender to test 38-spl midrange wadcutter ammo for accuracy? How about the Contender's rate-of-twist and its leade.



Advice and opinions welcome!

Ficus

I have considerable experience with .357 Contender barrels, both 10" and my current 7.94" barrel (previous owner had experimened with muzzle breacks so I just cut off his "experiments"). The leade in both barrels was pretty short with the driving band of a 358477 hitting the leade if not seated to the crimping groove in .357 cases. Not a problem with the shorter .38 SPL cases. The chambers on both my barrels were/are tight.

I have a Burris 2X scope on my .357 barrel and accuracy is excellent with factory WC ammuntion. Groups run 1-2" at 50 yards if the wind is good and I'm holding hard. The twist is supposed to be 1-18 but I have not measured the twist in my barrel.

Larry Gibson

[uscra112]

Ditto. I have a 12 inch ".38 Long Colt" Bullberry that was progressively lengthened to .38 Spl., then .357 Magnum, and finally .357 Max. My reamer was made to have a short parallel throat .358 diameter, which somewhat mimics a revolver, although that was never the intention. I shot quite a few wadcutters through it in the .38 and .357 Mag. configurations, at subsonic velocities, and got generally good results. One inch wasn't unusual at 40 yards, (was testing stealth chuck defense loads). Velocities around 1000 fps. Twist 1:18 Will try again in the Max configuration when I get time. Have since tightened up the pivot pin, and I hope it will get better.

[Olevern]

Accuracy measured with one gun (or barrel) will not equate, many times, with accuracy in another gun (or barrel). Too many variables, type and depth of rifling, twist, tightness of barrel, chamber, throat, crown, etc.
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Therefore, what you find to be your most accurate load in the contender will most likely not be the best load for the 52.

[Ficus]

Accuracy measured with one gun (or barrel) will not equate, many times, with accuracy in another gun (or barrel). Too many variables, type and depth of rifling, twist, tightness of barrel, chamber, throat, crown, etc.
\
Therefore, what you find to be your most accurate load in the contender will most likely not be the best load for the 52.

Sigh! I guess I kind of 'knew' that even asking the question and knowing that i had a TCContender 357 barrel already. I'm surprised to learn that others' experience with midrange, 38-spl wadcutters in Contender 357 barrels is so good. I'd wondered if the bullets would not get into trouble in the long 'freebore'.

Anyway, good people, thank you for preventing me from jousting off after an imaginary windmill.

Y'r o'bt s'v't,

Ficus

[uscra112]

... I'd wondered if the bullets would not get into trouble in the long 'freebore'.

I misled you. I did not and always prefer not to shoot .38 Special cases in .357 chambers, Contender or revolvers, because it takes too long to get that nasty carbon ring out. My 'tender results were .38 cases in .38 chamber, and .357 cases in .357 chamber.

That said, I did once try some .38 wadcutters from my Colt O.M. ammo box in a nasty L-frame S&W .357 that wouldn't group worth a darn, just to see what would happen. They shot by far the best group of the day! (That Smith finally did straighten up and start shooting groups, BTW. One of my minor victories!)

So there might still be some value in it for you, Ficus..... Would certainly make chronographing less stressful. :smile:

[fryboy]

ummm...
" Maybe this is just me building up an excuse to get another Contender barrel. Pretty lame excuse!"
i'd bet that we both have conversed with fellows who have bought a barrel ( gun or few ) just because they ended up with an odd mold ,die set or batch of brass :P doesnt sound lame to me , there are of course variables but for the most part the wadcutters are fairly accurate so even if the leade loses a little bit of that accuracy there's still plenty remaining , it seems my best groups with the 38 has been target velocities whilst with the 357 it has been crowding the upper spectrum of velocities , i agree that the carbon ring can be a chore but gumount carb cleaner ( in a spray can ) or kroil can both help loosen it up somewhat , best way to find out what your barrel likes is load'em up and have fun ! ( and repeat !! ) erm you're welcome amigo ( love the jousting comment btw ! thanks for the grin )

[Larry Gibson]

Sigh! I guess I kind of 'knew' that even asking the question and knowing that i had a TCContender 357 barrel already. I'm surprised to learn that others' experience with midrange, 38-spl wadcutters in Contender 357 barrels is so good. I'd wondered if the bullets would not get into trouble in the long 'freebore'.

Anyway, good people, thank you for preventing me from jousting off after an imaginary windmill.

Y'r o'bt s'v't,

Ficus

Yes the accuracy and velocities will be different between the Contender and the revolver, usually slightly higher in the Contender with most target WC loads. However, I've not really found any appreciable difference in accuracy between the Contenders and my old Power's PPC revovler at 50 yards.

Many, many PPC revovlers are/were built on M19 .357s using the original .357 chambers/cylinder. They just as accurately as most built on M15 frames with .38 SPL chambers/cylinders. BTW; the 1/8" "freebore" difference between the SPL and Mag cartridge in the Contender is not any where nere the cylinder throat free bore and then entry into the barrel forcing cone of the revolver.

In my testing of handgun cartridges (.32 S&WL, .32 H&R mag, .38 SPL, .357 Mag, .44 SPL, .44 Mag, 45 ACP, .45 Schofield and .45 Colt) in both Contender barrels and in revolvers is that loads that are accurate in the Contender will be accurate in the revolvers. However, PB'd cast bullets (especially heavily BB'd ones) at top end accuracy in magnum cartridges in revolvers will generally not be accurate out of the Contenders because the velocity increase puts them over the top for accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[canyon-ghost]

I tried that in 9mm. The Contender will kick harder first, and naturally be accurate. Dropped into my semi-auto, the loads shot soft, not real bad. It's usable.

[beagle]

Years ago, I went this route. Had a 10" Bull .38 Special Contender barrel with a special twist (think it was made for a 9mm) twist by Bullberry in Utah. I had a regular Contender .357 barrel but I could never get it to group with SWCs. My figuring was like yours, get good ammo in the Contender and switch. Despite my good and well thought out plan, it didn't happen.

Bottom line is that the new barrel didn't group with SWCs either. Eventually, it moved on to a .357 Max and was traded sometime along the line. I paid and I learned.

Both barrels shot WCs, RN and FRN bullets like a house afire but not SWCs and I know darn well my SWC ammo was good because I was shooting a M15 Smith, a Colt Python and a Ruger BH. It's just that some barrels/chambering won't shoot certain types of bullets.

So, based on my costly quest for education, I don't think you'll get anywhere./beagle