Magnumitis

[Dale53]

Magnumitis:
What is with all of this "attitude" concerning reloading. No one seems to want target loads. All of the emphasis seems to be on "bear killer" loads. Now, I must admit, that I have shot more than my fair share of the "whomper-stompers" but, really, by far, most of my shooting is with pleasant and accurate loads. In fact, my favorite calibers are .32 S&W L and .32 H&R magnum (the .38 Special runs close to the other two).

I have taken a number of deer with various .44 Magnums, my "Cowboy" loads have been "full house" .45 Colt Black Powder loads and in a five year period I shot 75,000 round ball equivalent from my 1911 .45 ACP. However, during all of that time I was shooting lots of pleasant stuff, also.

The first thing someone wants when they get an S&W, as an example, is they want to make a Magnum out of it. They pick up a .455 Webley and they want to exceed the velocity of a .454 Casull. Am I alone in my desire for accurate, pleasant centerfire shooting?

Dale53

[Kraschenbirn]

Nope...not at all. Outside of my S&W 586 and Ruger Vaquero .44, I don't own anything with the word "magnum" appended to the caliber. I can clearly recall the day when practically everything I shot (except .22 rimfires) fell into the "loudenboomer-kickenharder" category but, somewhere along the line, I reached the conclusion that if I really "needed" hot handloads or a "magnum" caliber with full-house ammo then, probably, I wasn't using enough gun.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

Magnumitis:
No one seems to want target loads. Am I alone in my desire for accurate, pleasant centerfire shooting?

Dale53

NO, you are most certainly NOT alone in this respect. These hand held howitzers get a big chunk of the gunrag play for some reason, and my preference has been to enjoy them from afar.

[monadnock#5]

I got into reloading to save money and to try to improve on factory accuracy. I have found that there are no savings, although "shoot more, shoot more often" certainly does apply. I make no claims of accuracy improvement. Since I just can't get excited about shooting from the bench, minute of pie plate works for me.

Since magnum loads don't extend case life, uses powder at a rate that's hard to sustain, and doesn't improve accuracy from a practical standpoint, I have to wonder why I should make the effort. With handguns, I don't.

I will say however that one of my projects this summer will be to find an elephant gun equivalent for my Ruger No. 1. I've never fired an elephant gun, and am looking forward to shooting at least what amounts to a reasonable facsimile thereof.

Ken

[longhorn]

Elephant gun equivalent? Are you loading up a .45-70? Mine was plenty light, and got "elephanty" with loads published for '86 Winchesters. I've owned 2 #1's in elephant calibers; the .458 was notable but not unpleasant with factory loads; the .375 beat me mercilessly-same stock dimensions. I guess weight is your friend, after all....

[Navahojoe]

As of now, I own 2 Magnums. One a.44 mag SRH and finally aquired the Ruger Single Six .32 H & R Magnum that eluded me for about 5 years. Neither one shoots "full snort" loads. I shoot loads for the .44 Mag at 900 to 1000FPS, and so far .32 S & W Longs in the .32 (Have not received my dies, molds brass, ect from Midway yet.)
I'm more for a pleasant afternoon plinking with any of my handguns than trying to see if I can flatten the primers with extra heavy "for Ruger, T/C , loads only". Sometimes, its only the .22 Single Six or Mark II. Fun Shooting I call it. As mentioned above, I started reloading to save money and become a better shot with my pistols., Bullcrap! I have spent more on accessories like dies, lead, wheelweights, coleman stove fuel,powder, primers and molds than I could shoot up in a couple of years at $20 a box. Do I regret it? Hell No! I have enjoyed every minute, every second of it and wouldn't change what I do to shoot ammo for the world.

regards,
NavahoJoe

ps: I am a better shot for it. Not great , by any means, but better.

[Bigjohn]

I don't use Magnum or Maximum loads in any of my firearms. I see no sense in it.

John

[Mk42gunner]

I have only owned two guns that actually hurt to shoot. First an H&R Wild Turkey Federation 3 1/2" 12 Gauge. This monsterr came with a "recoil reducer" in the stock that ruins the balance of a surprisingly neat little single shot. 2 1/4 ounce loads are way too much fun. I took the extra wieght out of the staock and use field loads in it for squirrels now.
The second was a tang safety Ruger 77 in 30-06 with a short eye relief scope.
Notable mention in the recoil department is the Ruger #1 in 45-70.........
I find I like 22's and small cased centerfires more and more the more I shoot.

Robert

[Bret4207]

I'm with you Dale.

[Boz330]

I will say however that one of my projects this summer will be to find an elephant gun equivalent for my Ruger No. 1. I've never fired an elephant gun, and am looking forward to shooting at least what amounts to a reasonable facsimile thereof.

Ken, been there done that, ain't that much fun.
577 Nitro Express, 750 gr bullet at 2400 out of a 9lb rifle. Before I would ever pull the trigger on one of those again it would be to avoid being toe jam on a Jumbo and I don't see that happening.

Bob

[9.3X62AL]

Boz, I was going to whine about recoil in my #1 x 45-70--but after hearing of your 750 grainer at 2400 FPS, I'll just stay low and keep dark.

Not all Magnums are nonsense--338 Win and 375 H&H Mags are pretty darn good hunting calibers, are well-balanced ballistically and have manageable recoil.

In handguns, the three "classic" magnum revolver chamberings (357, 41, and 44) are tremendously useful, and the handloader can take his or her foot off the gas and easily make "all-day loads". These are the majority of what I shoot in the Magnum revolvers these days, cast boolits of conventional weight (160, 210, 250 grains respectively) at 900 to 1000 FPS, Same story in the 32 Magnum, 44 Special, and 45 Colt. For me, the Magnum loadings in these calibers are as much recoil as I care to deal with and have sufficient power for any need I can conjure up. You won't see me with a 454/475/480 Magnum, as fine as they might be for other folks. Like the AR-15, they are a platform I can appreciate that others enjoy and I would never suggest against their proliferation--but they are not a thing I would pursue.

[Uncle R.]

At least magnumitis disease isn't fatal - well, not ALWAYS although I guess it can be. I had a bad case of it in my youth but I was cured without permanent damage long ago.
One of the first handguns I owned was a Hawes Western Marshall in .44 mag. Built by Sauer & Sohn it was a beautiful quality copy of a SAA and very near the original Colt in size, contour and weight. With full-house .44 mag. loads from that small platform it also kicked like the hounds of hell. I'm talking stinging palm bloody knuckles serious hand damaging recoil.
Sadly, I traded it off - and even though I was a reloader it never even occured to me that I didn't have to load it to the max. That 240 grainer at 850 FPS would have made a sweet and potent trail gun - just like the original SAA.
I'd love to be young again - but not if I had to be that dumb again...
:roll:

[Mk42gunner]

I'd love to be young again - but not if I had to be that dumb again...


That is one of the most profound thoughts that I have read in a long time.


Robert

[454PB]

If it weren't for people like Elmer Keith being afflicted with "magnumitis", we wouldn't have the .357, .44, and .41 magnum.

Firearms are tools, and we all have different needs. There's no sense in using a 1/2" drill that weights 10 pounds to attach drywall......on the other hand a cordless 3/8" won't drill a 1/2" hole through 1/2" steel.

I've about maxed out my recoil tolerance with my .454 Casulls and .338 Winchester magnums, but there are people out there that think a .500 S&W is just the tool for hunting. More power to them, I'd sure hate to think our most powerful handgun was a Colt Walker. Time and technology marches on.

[Boz330]

Al, I had a #3 Ruger in 45-70 and it will ring your chimes as well with those Ruger loads. The Trapdoor loads aren't bad at all and they still kill deer just fine.
As you pointed out the magnums have there place and I wish when I guided elk hunters more of them had brought 338s or 375s.

Bob

[Ricochet]

More power to them, I'd sure hate to think our most powerful handgun was a Colt Walker.
Yeah, having shot one a good bit over a Chrony yesterday with both the original conical bullets and round balls over 60 grain volumetric charges of RS Pyrodex, I can confirm that it's just about equal to a .45 Automatic with the 193 grain original style conical boolit, or a .38 Special +P with the round ball. Both boolits shoot out of the Walker at about 950-1000 FPS or slightly over, the velocities initally rising steadily from around 870 FPS in a clean lightly oiled barrel to the above range as the powder fouling builds to equilibrium. It'd doubtless shoot a little faster with Pyrodex P or FFFg, but not all that much. Lyman's 45th Edition reported 1070 FPS with a ball and 50 grains FFFg.

That "Blackpowder Magnum" stuff is mythological. But it is great fun to shoot!

[BruceB]

The very word, "Magnum", has become just about the most mis-used, over-used, and over-sold word in the shooter's lexicon, followed perhaps by "tactical".

In the original useage, Holland and Holland popularized the term with their .300 and .375 rifle cartridges, which surely merit both the term and the high regard they gained around the world.

Smith and Wesson and Elmer Keith did the same with the .357, .41 and .44 revolver Magnums, which also are worthy of the name.

In all the above rounds, the cartridges represent a very useful and even radical imrovement over the "normal" cartridges of the day. Since these original 'Magnums', the word has become a sales gimmick.

In the original firearms, the Magnums were highly useful and relatively comfortable to shoot. A nine-pound .375 H&H is very nice....at 6.5 pounds (I've fired one) it is....not quite so nice. An N-frame .44 S&W is tolerable for reasonable lengths of time. A 17-ounce 329 .44 is something I won't even consider. I find my SLIGHTLY-lighter .44 Mountain Revolver, which is an all-steel N-frame, distinctly unpleasant with full loads. So, its diet is mostly 250/1000 loads, which I call ".44 Lite". Likewise, a load which is just authoritative in an N-frame .357 is also a different sort of cat when fired in a K-frame, and very nasty in the J-frame.

The modern craze for light weight guns has done some serious dis-service to some of our best cartridges, AND to many recoil-tenderized shooters, and I see no need for the titanium/aluminum/polymer wonders of today. I also see no downside to carrying a heavy rifle (9 pouinds or so) if the energies involved merit such weight. My .416 #1, ready to hunt, is about 10.5 pounds with scope, sling and three rounds, and it handles like lightning. It's also rather fun to shoot! Balance, or proper weight distribution, is more important to me than the actual poundage.

Pushing the envelope is all well and good, but the current lightweight stuff has gone too far. When serious power is called for, I'll load my .416, .404, .44 Mag etc. right to the maximum, but that's a limited-use role and the guns can get to be a handful. For moderate purposes, I use moderate loads and enjoy a lot more useage from my guns in doing so.

I like PROPER Magnums in their proper places.

[9.3X62AL]

I debated both the 338 and 375 pretty closely before getting the 9.3 x 62. Mag capacity (5 vs. 3) won out. Who knows--maybe if the 9.3 x 62 Mauser or 9.3 x 64 Brennecke (now, THERE is a fine large game round!) had been appended with the magic word "magnum", both might be more popular in North America.

There are limits to all good things, of course.

Boz, a big DITTO to 1873-level loads in the 45-70. They hit a real "sweet spot" in my #1.

[monadnock#5]

The Bren 10 debacle back in the 80's is what originally got me thinking along the lines of what Dale53 has expressed in this thread. Great concept, great gun, great cartridge and no less a personage than Jeff Cooper to serve as spokesman. Unfortunately, the project crashed and burned because the guns couldn't handle the recoil. They self destructed before our very eyes, and the idea was tossed into the dustbin of history.

I treat all my guns so that my grandchildren (none so far) will be able to enjoy them as I have. When the situation calls for it, Ruger Super Redhawk, Ruger .44 Carbine, fine, load 'em up stout. Otherwise, it's all about accuracy (as I define that term), and not about setting new speed records.

And yes, my ersatz elephant gun is a .45/70. And I'm also thinking that 3 to 5 rounds is all it will take to cure my curiosity.

Ken

[454PB]

The Bren 10 and .357 maximum failures were gun failures, not cartridge failures.

[45nut]

the 357Max was a gunwriter failure. it was meant to knock stuff over,,not vaporize them as they used them. give it a proper 180gr'er not a 125hp and enjoy as intended.

[Ron]

The last time I shot a 44 magnum was on my trip to the USA last year. Six shots and I remembered why I don't like 44's. Took me ages to get the imprint of the handgrip off of my palm.

My 686 has had nothing but 38 special through it and my 34 GLOCK nothing but standard 9mm loads. Accuracy is what I am after out to 50 metres and I don't need magnum rounds to do that nor do I need to go home from the range with painful hands, getting too old for that cr--.:-D

[9.3X62AL]

The 10mm is alive and well. Glock Model 20's sell VERY well in Alaska, I understand from friends and family. The original Norma loadings--200 grainers at 1200 FPS--were assigned the responsibility for having tweaked the Brens. I've run about 2000 rounds through my S&W M-1026, either 175-180 grainers at 1275-1300 FPS or 200 grainers at 1100 FPS--and the platform is just fine. RCBS 200 grain castings at 1100 FPS REALLY shoot well. I'll try to remember to bring the 1026 along to NCBS again this year.

[onceabull]

Dep.Al.& Gents: If old Otto B. hadn't been from the home of those rascally Thousand Year Reichers,maybe his good ones would have had some chance over here before the 21st century. I was blessed to find my 9x62 before anyone would admit to owning such..Good thing,because with a 338 W.and 375 H&H in hand I couldn't justify spending current greenspans at the rate req.for a decent example. I was able to scratch a 45 yr.old itch this winter though,and acq. a Belg.Browning Safari in 300 H&H (nice one ,too) I am still getting by with the 1870's version for 40 cal.handgun calibers,but did settle on the New Service revolver to order to assure safety with something warmer than that 40 Short&Weak you speak of..!! Oh yeah,the old rem/peters 220 gr Mushroom bullet from the 30/40 would double-lung and beyond any elk walking inside 200 yds,if one could shoot to the cartridges capability..fwiw:) Onceabull

[Dale53]

I have been blessed, over the years, with many opportunities so shoot and own a considerable number of powerful rifles, revolvers, automatics, and serious single shot pistols. I have mostly enjoyed them. Shooting them well in spite of the recoil can be quite satisfying. I still own most of them but seldom shoot the heavies any more. It is not about "being afraid of recoil" and really, it is not about "no longer being macho". It is about, "Been there, done that". I still really enjoy shooting but the milder, more pleasant cartridges to shoot hold my interest more, these days. I did want to shoot a bear with my .375 H&H Model 70 (9.75 lbs) and I did. I wanted to shoot a number of deer with a .44 magnum revolver and I did. I am still experimenting (the current projects are a couple of Taurus Trackers- .45 ACP and one in .44 magnumwhich will be shot with Skeeters' load, mostly, a used Ruger New Model BlackHawk and a used Colt Trooper V in .357 with an 8" barrel). These are minor deviations, while I am mostly shooting .32's (S&WL and H&R) and .38 wadcutters. Of course, there will be time for constant "refreshers" wtih my Airweight Chiefs Special .38 and my Kimber 3" CDP Ultra II .45 ACP for "Personal" use.

I just LOVE my .32's. With the bad weather we have been having, I have been shooting indoors and have been shooting the "Hunter Pistol" course at fifty feet. It is certainly fun to shoot paper silhouettes. Since you have to hit specific animal targets it is pretty good training for hunting. The position is two handed standing for those that haven't tried it. It is fun with your carry pistol, also (and QUITE challenging...[smilie=1:).

I must say that I am quite pleased to see that others, here, pretty much feel as I do.

Dale53

[sundog]

Dale, I'm glad you said what you did. I kinda gave up shooting my 7 Mag for awhile until I got some surp 860 and loaded some old 170 Sierra RN. Nice load to squeeze the trigger on, and if I decided to hunt with it, well, it would work. No more 'liver quiver'. Been there, done that. That said, I've got some 139s loaded for coyote hunting that will absolutely jar your eye teeth! Only a few of them any more, and that's enough.

SIL shot up the last of my maxed out 310 gr 44 maggies. He says, wow, lots of fun, can I have some more? No. Things are becoming a little more reasonable around here.

[357maximum]

the 357Max was a gunwriter failure. it was meant to knock stuff over,,not vaporize them as they used them. give it a proper 180gr'er not a 125hp and enjoy as intended.

:drinks: ahhhh'men:drinks:


Them 180gr+ boolits do one fine job of tipping whitetails also.....insert big a$$ grin right here:mrgreen: .

They called it the 357max and not the 357swift for a reason, but the gunraggers of the day seemed to totally miss catching the clue. If the 357 max would have been born first, the 35 rem would proably never had been. Oddly enough in this part of this state of mine I can use a peestol or short barrelled gripped rifle in my case in 357 max but not the 35rem.....I fail miserably when I try to find the sense in that. wheres the shrug shoulders icon?

If I could use a full length rifle, it would be either a 357max single shot, or de ol turdy turdy, I simply do not need the reach/ and all the pain and noise that accompanies it.

In my opinion a 30/06 based cartride with any size hole in the top of the brass is all the "MAGNUM" I could ever use here..

I see so many souperdouperloudenboomer caused flinches to know I do not want it..... do not want it do not need it. But then again I am basically at the top of the food chain here, and not subject to being another critters lunch,,,that would possibly sway me, but i doubt it....

I have shot real elephant guns...would never do it again,unless elephants were to be on the menu...I have shot doubles and drilling s enough when I was dumber to ever do it again without a da*n good reason...

[Four Fingers of Death]

I love all my guns, big boomers and pop guns.

I think most guys start out reloading are immediately drawn to the loads with the maximum velocities and powders with the smallest charge to achieve max vel and save money, only natural, we sail a bit close to the wind (some guys stay there) and as we gain experience, we temper our outlook some and change our priorities and our approach.

I have lots of magnummmmmmmmmms and I love them.

I have 2x 357 mag revolvers and a 92 357 lever gun. They mostly consume 38s and target level loads.

I have a 38Super 1911, it only is fed screaming loads :D

I have 2x 44 Mag Revolvers and a 92 and 1894 lever guns in that cal. Again mostly use 44Special loads for cowboy, but the Blackhawk gets all fired up with hot loads, fun to shoot!

I have a Weatherby MkV in 240WM, it is a hoot! Flattttt trajectory, the death ray!

The 220 Swift was a lot of fun as well, but my son now owns it. I have a new (to me) 22/250 Mod70, which will be loaded with jacketed bullets and will reach out accross the big paddocks and vaporise crows, rabbits and foxes.

I hunt in the alps in Victoria where most of the shots are between 30-75 yards, but occasionally a 350-400yard shot presents itself. I have a 300Win Mag for that (I have a 444S with the recent group buy mould for when its raining/snowing and I'm crawling through the blackberries/brambles :D).

I am building a elephant/buffalo rifle on this:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Bolt%20Rifles/SporterisedM17.jpg

I always wanted a 375H&H, been thinking of a 416, but the 458 Lott will probably win out as the most practical taking into account what other rifles I own (I am well set up for 45s as well). This will not be used for much hunting (apart from lead boolit hunting and maybe a buffalo/scrub bull hunt in NT), but will allow me to compete in the Big Game target shoots, covering the pot rifle and dangerous game rifle matches.

What is silly though is that fact that some shooters will not entertain anything other than the latest whizzbangiest earbalstius guns and will get rid of last years wunda gun in a heartbeat to get the new more powerful, shiny object.

Whilst I enjoy my Magnummmmmmmmmms!, most of my pistols and rifles are a bit more mellow, 22LRs, 22Hornet, 223, 9mm, 38S&W, 38Specials, 44/40s (rifle and revolver), 32/20s, 30/30s, 308s, 3006s, 303Brits, 8mm Lebel, 375, 444, 45ACP, 45Colt, 45/70 and so on.

If it goes bang, I'll stand behind it!

Stop talking big fella :( Yakkety yak, Yakkety yak).

[castalott]

with the throttle wide open and don't do my guns that way either! Some of my stuff is old enough that discretion is called for. Besides, with the wild cost of powder and lead today, who wants to send 220 grain boolits when a 130 will more than do the job? I'm even getting to where I don't like factory stuff...too wasteful! Jacketed bullets, except for long,long range shooting seem a waste too.

About everyone in my youth lived in the Great Depression/WW2. And that was the way I was brought up. So that's why I am so goofy about not being wasteful.

remember this?

"Use it up
wear it out
make it do...
or do without"

This was from a time when some items were not replaceable.....

Ut-oh..I see big time thread drift here......

[redneckdan]

I'd love to be young again - but not if I had to be that dumb again...
:roll:



hey, I resemble that remark![smilie=1:

[NVcurmudgeon]

Dale, I get the feeling on this board that the average age of the members is AT LEAST forty, maybe higher. In my case the Magnum case touched me lightly, and only in my misspent youth. I'll bet there a lot of us here. My entire Magnum collection is an 1894 Marlin Cowboy rifle in .44 Magnum and its partner revolver, a S&W 8 3/8" Model 629. The only load I use is 7.0 grains of Green Dot with the RCBS 250 gr. KT or the RCBS 44 240 GC. Velocities are 900+ in the pistol (matches the .45 Colt load that civilized the Moros) and a scant 1200 in the rifle (outwhomps the .44/40, which was America's favorite deer rifle for a long time.) Not very exciting, but I can shoot them all day. Shhhhh! Don't let on to the young uns.

[Larry Gibson]

I shoot magnum loads. That's why I got rifles and handguns in magnum cartridges. I also shoot many more reduced loads (cast bullet loads) out of them than with magnum loads. If it is a magnum then there is no harm shooting magnum loads. I do not try to magnumize standard cartridges and generally agree with Dale there. However, I do load some standard cartridges to their safe potential in certain firearms, the 45-70 in the Siamese Mauser or Ruger for instance. I also load some cartridges that are loaded on the weak side here to their European counterparts, the 7x57 and 8x57 for example. With the exeption of cast bullet loads I do not "dumb" down magnums for hunting. If I want 30-06 performance I use a 30-06. I do not get a 30 magnum and load it down to 30-06 performance.

Larry Gibson

[Hackleback]

You know that you can not kill a whitetail unless it is an ubermagnum. [smilie=1:


Yup, I have the afliction as well, shot a three deer last fall with a magnum ... 41 mag, a Marlin FG.

[Ricochet]

You know that you can not kill a whitetail unless it is an ubermagnum. [smilie=1:
With a monolithic copper Premium Bullet.

I've read it on the Web, so I know it's so.

[SharpsShooter]

I don't own a firearm with the moniker "Magnum" on it. I don't have a problem with those that do. To each his own fancy I say. I am a big fan of the 45-70 and with a Ruger #1 350gr J-word boolits at 2100fps, it is equal to a 450 NE. On the other hand 400gr boolits at 1100fps are pleasant to shoot and very accurate. Point I make is the true lack of need at least on this continent for the "Magnum" class of cartridges. I have shot the entire spectrum of 45-70 fodder over the past 25 or so years and if you can't it with the old girl, it don't need done.


SS

[pumpguy]

I like both. I can go out and shoot my gp with 158 swcs in front of 7gr of Unique or take my 11 year old daughter out and burn up a brick of 22s in our 10/22s. It just depends on my mood. I love shooting my 45/70 to the max or I can go with my 30/30 and shoot a 170gr lead over 6gr of red dot. I just like to shoot to my mood and to the situation at hand. It does not matter to me what anybody else is shooting, magnum or plinker, so long as they are safe and enjoy it.