Noob questions.....

[lcg119]

Please pardon my ignorance....but the world of cast bullets is very new to me. I am curious, approximately what hardness range should one consider acceptable for whitetail deer hunting CB's, in the "8mm Mauser" cartridge.....at velocities from, say 1500 fps to 1800 fps. I realize that such a load proposition has fairly marginal energy....but I am thinking ONLY in terms of short-range shots....probably not to exceed 100 yards. This may be a more general question than I realize....and may have little directly to do with the cartridge used... but I am aware that hardcast bullets can "explode" in game, especially if driven too fast. So, it seems an important question to ask, before considering any hunting applications, with CB's.

Thanks.

[RugerFan]

Hey Lcg119,
Welcome to the addiction. If you don't plan on going past 1800 fps, you may be able to get away with straight wheel weights. Heat treating them will harden them up noticeably. If you desire a harder alloy, add some tin, linotype, or lead shot. Hard cast bullets driven fast will NOT "explode" in big game. However using straight linotype makes brittle bullets and may cause them to shatter upon striking bone of any density. For hunting with my .308 I use 75% WW / 25% linotype (HT). I push these to 2000 fps and they crash right through deer and hog shoulders without breaking up.

[lcg119]

Obviously, I didn't provide enough information about my specific circumstances... sorry. I should have mentioned that I am not in the position to cast my own bullets, so I will be purchasing them. That is why I asked about the relative BHI of bullets suitable for hunting....if there is some guideline that should be followed in this area. I am not certain that I will try the CB's for hunting as of yet, but I am intrigued with the idea. I must run some tests first...and find a good load (or loads) for my rifle....and the best bullet for the job. Then I suppose I will be in position to make a final judgement. I must say that I am enthusiastic about trying the cast bullets....I like the idea of "doing more with less". This is why my loads are always a bit on the mild side - only loaded as hot as they need to be to accomplish the intended purpose.

[Larry Gibson]

lcg119

Most commercial cast bullets are cast hard but not as hard as linotype which is prone to shatter as mentioned. Get bulets that weight 170 gr or more, heavier is better. make sure they have a larget meplat (flat nose), larger is better. and make sure they have gas checks. Load them with a medium burning powder, 4895 for instance to 1800-2000 fps. Zero your rifle and go hunting.

M98s in 8mm are good cast bullet shooters. I've several and currently shoot four different cast bullets bullets through mine, two of which I hunt with. I use a lighter weight pb bullet at 1150 fps for small game and plinking (am in on the 323 Plinker GB - should be a great bullet for this) and use the 322471HP for deer. I've also got the last GB mold. Mine is dropping 190 gr bullets (a pretty soft alloy) and so far shows real promiss out of my Yugo M24 in the 1900 fps range. That should be a fine deer bullet also.

Larry Gibson

[lcg119]

Thanks very much, Larry. The bullets that I am about to test (the first CB's I will try)...are 170 grain...with a decent meplat....but not gas-checked. If I understand you correctly, you are indicating that I will need to push whatever bullets I decide to use (for deer hunting - 170 grainers or heavier, if possible) to at least 1800 fps...so gas checks will be more or less mandatory. I understand this....a non gas-checked bullet at only say, 1500 fps would offer very marginal energy on something like whitetail deer. I pretty much expected that I would hear this from those in the know on the subject. So, I will look about for a good source of heavy, gas-checked bullets (with a large meplat)....and consider those to be the minimum needed for medium game hunting (I don't hunt anything smaller, at this point).

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.

[corvette8n]

If you are going to buy bullets get ahold of Daniel at

http://bullshop.gunloads.com/

he is in AK he has lots of molds and
can let you know what would shoot good in your gun.

Even though I cast some of my own I buy from him calibers that
I can't justify getting a mold for.

He uses priority mail flat rate shipping so he can get quite a few bullets in a box.

[Bullshop]

I think maybe you are getting the wrong idea. You dont need 170+gn or 1800+ fps to cleanly take deer. Just ask for a show of hands here on how many have taken deer with a 32/20 or even lesser cartridge.
What you need to cleanly take deer is the ability to precisely place your shot in exactly the place where it will do the most good. The fps, or fpe, or projectile bc, or sc is all fluff. Put the boolit where it needs to go and you have a dead dear. The bigger the boolit and the more velocity it carries will allow a small margin for error but a deer gut shot with a 50 bmg will still run off. Whatever boolit weight at whatever velocity you can push it to from your 8/57 if you can put it exactly where it needs to go every time without fail you will never loose a deer to it. There are no magic numbers just accurate shooting. If you can get your 170gn pb boolit to go where you want it to every time even at as low as 800 fps I know it will kill your deer.
You just have to pass on shots you are not sure of. I can tell ya this for certain that 170gn pb at the accepted top end range for pb, about 1500 fps
has taken an awful lot of deer for many years in many different cartridges of about that same performance level.
If what you are looking for are some numbers that might be helpfull here is a rule I like to use. If you want expansion your alloy bhn# x 100 should not exceed impact velocity. You can make adjustments up or down from there to provide the desired effect.
OH one more thing my preferd bhn range for hunting is 12 to 15, and my preferd velocity range(muzzle) is 1800 to 2200 fps
BIC/BS

[lcg119]

Thanks ! I have hunted off and on for years, so I am aware that shot placement is by far the most critical aspect. I am also well aware that there is no magic number as regards energy at POI, etc. etc. If there were, then likely no one would ever get a clean kill with a round such as the "lowly" .357 magnum...or anything similar (and of course, deer are taken cleanly every day with them). I certainly am not one who buys the NONSENSE that anything short of a magnum rifle cartridge will simply bounce off...etc. I have always been, however, fearful of rounds with less than what I would perceive as a wide margin of energy....i.e., a possibility of less than 1000 ft./ lbs at POI. I probably worry too much about this...but I have a fear of only wounding a game animal and losing it. It has not happened to me yet...and I want to keep it that way. As you say, though, even a deer gutshot with a .50 BMG will likely run away. So, I will make an effort to not think this issue to death....and instead, concentrate on finding a good load for my M48. I will make note of your rule of thumb, Dan. I have taken a look at your website....I will take good note of that, as well. I like your prices and I may well contact you about purchasing some bullets in the near future.

In the meantime, can you suggest a particular bullet design that seems to be a good performer in 8 x 57JS Mauser rifles ? I assume that you cast something that would work well.

My thanks to all on this matter. You've been a great help.

[Bullshop]

lcg119
Glad to see you not take offence to what I had to say. Some of it may have sounded a bit harsh but never any harsh intent. I can tell you have experiance here and just want to prevent any bad experiance, and this is good. Sometimes people ask questions but they dont want to hear the truth, just what they want to hear. You got my drift, find a load with an energy level you are comfortable with for the job and SHOOT IT SHOOT IT and SHOOT IT some more. When you get to the point where you are shooting in your sleep you will be ready. At that point the shots will just happen automaticly without you even thinking about it. Dont you worry about that 8mm even at half its full potencial its still plenty for what you want.
If I have to pick a favorite design for the 8mm its hands down without question my LBT 200gn LFN
I did get some of the group buy oversize jobs for well worn bores too but the LBT/LFN has always been my favorite.
BIC/BS

[lcg119]

Bullshop,

I certainly would never take offense to comments designed to be helpful to me. You have no way of knowing anyone's level of knowledge and experience on these forums...without conversing with them at length. No problem - I am always grateful for helpful advice. Many thanks.

I have loaded some of the CB's that I have on hand, after thoroughly lubing them. As soon as I find the time, I will try and find an accurate load, if possible.

Thanks for the tip on the 200 gr. LFN bullet. I will most likely be in touch with you in future, to order some of these.