Hello shotgun fellers! I finally have a reason to post here and I need alot of help.

[MBTcustom]

This is the first time I have even opened up this forum on cast boolits.
My shotgun reloading experience is very limited.
I have done a lot of gun-smithing for a friend of mine, and today he needed help once again with installing a but-pad on a silver snipe (nice gun by the way) Anyways, when I was done he said he had something else to show me, and slid out a S&W Eastfield model 916 pump shot gun with a 21" barrel and a screw in choke. It has a 3" chamber. He told me that if I wanted it, He would "sell" it to me for $10. (he knew that I have been without a scatter-gun for many moons) :drinks:
He also gave me an ammo box with about 15 slugs, 25 00 buck shot, patches, mops, and a box of high-power #7 shells.:mrgreen:
Here's the question: What can I do with this gun? (Casting for it I mean). I tried some of those slugs and they were lucky to hit a filing cabinet at 30 yards, can I do better?
I tried out the buck shot and it worked well. How hard is it to load buck-shot?
Can I save any money loading shotshells like I do with pistol or rifle?
Thanks fellers!

[UNIQUEDOT]

What is the constriction of the choke? if it is tighter than improved cylinder that is likely the reason for the poor performance with the slugs. It actually should be cylinder bore for best performance with slugs. There are exceptions of course. There are also rifled choke tubes that some claim success using, but I'm not sure which ones are interchangeable with your barrel. I'm sure someone here will know.

There is considerable savings to be had with reloading or handloading slugs and buckshot and even high performance hunting loads, but hardly any savings on most target shells.

Buckshot is not difficult to load, but must be placed in the hull (or wad if using smaller sized buck) in layers by hand. Lee has a few buckshot molds and a couple of slug molds that are inexpensive enough to pay for themselves in one session. Lyman has some fantastic slug molds and then there is the inexpensive sharpshooter buckshot molds.

[MBTcustom]

This gun has a modified choke that can be changed.
Are there cheap loaders that can be had? or do I have to buy a MEC or something? My dad has allowed me to commandeer all of his reloading stuff, and he still has this huge shotgun press. I only ever used it to reload #8 target loads and quit because the primers killed any cost savings. (that and shot) I forget what brand it is, but it has 8 stations and an aluminum primer feed system. Here's a video of one I found on youtube that has an automatic motor attached:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU5E-rpjLLg&feature=related
Could I use this press for reloading slugs?

[longbow]

What kind of slug loads were they?

Did they leave round holes in the target or were they keyholing?

If they were typical sabot slugs then they are designed for rifled barrels. If Foster slugs then they should do better from a smoothbore than what you describe.

I have had poor results from Lyman Foster slugs and most other hollow base slugs except for a few thick skirted slugs from home made moulds but even the bad ones gave 8" to 12" groups at 50 yards.

Generally I have had best results from round ball loads at least to 50 yards or so anyway.

I have had good results from both bore size (0.735") RB's and 0.662" RB's "shimmed" to snug fit into a shotcup. I can count on 3" to 4" groups at 50 yards with these. Having said that, I have rifle sights on my smoothbore slug guns.

If using RB's or any solid slug, the combination of slug and shotcup should not be any more than maybe 0.003" over the tightest constriction (choke) in the bore. Foster style hollow base slugs will pass through a full choke safely but accuracy may not be good.

Some people report good accuracy with the Lee Drive Key slug from smoothbore so that is worth a try and the moulds are quite inexpensive. I just got one but have not shot any Lee slugs yet.

You can use a Lee Loadall or plain old Lee Loader to load with, so quite inexpensive. I use a MEC Sizemaster and also have a MEC 600 Junior but have used Lee Loadall and Lee Loaders in the past. I do like my MEC Sizemaster though. It all depends on how much shooting you are doing as to what reloader you will want.

If you only want to load up a few slug sand buckshots loads then a Lee Loader is adequate. If you plan on shooting any sort of volume of shotshells then you will want a press of some sort. A Lee Loadall is not very expensive and will speed things up some. They work pretty well.

Not sure if your Dad's automated press is suited to slug loading. Typically, you have to add extra "stuff" like nitro card wads, hard card wads and/or fiber wads with slugs so need to be able to do that without advancing to the next station.

In any case, you do not have to spend a pile of money to set up and load slugs and buckshot.

You should be able to get decent hunting accuracy to at least 50 yards using round balls or home cast slugs from readily available moulds. Rifle sights will help a bunch too.

Do some searches on this forum and you will find lots of info.

Longbow

[MBTcustom]

The slugs I was shooting were the cup style I think. I see a round nose with a dimple in the middle.

[elk hunter]

Goodsteel,

Your dads press is an 800 series Ponsness/Warren, great press, but not suitable for loading buckshot or slugs. For what you want to do I'd recommend a Lee "Load All" and a roll crimper in a drill press. The Lee press will allow you to remove the case at each step so you can insert the buckshot or slug and then roll crimp them. Not the best or fastest loader, but it would do what you need and doesn't cost much.

[longbow]

I am guessing they were factory loads then when you say they had a dimple.

First thing to find out is if they are full bore or sabot slugs. If sabot slugs then they are only suitable for rifled bore and will not shoot well from smoothbore.

Not sure how many sabot slugs have dimples or HP but the BRI's do:

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=739861&type=product&WT.tsrc=CRR&WT.mc_id=crrdtfd

If they aren't labeled as sabot slugs, then check to see if there is any plastic cup/sabot between the slug and hull. If so they are sabot slugs.

Some Factory Fosters have dimpled noses:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Ammunition/Shotgun-Ammunition|/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/104567580/Winchester-Super-Xreg-Power-Point-Rifled-Slugs/740040.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FN %3D1100191%26WTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd739861&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd739861%3Bcat104567580

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Ammunition/Shotgun-Ammunition|/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/104567580/Federal-Power-Shok174-Shotgun-Slugs/1097098.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshoo ting-ammunition-shotgun-ammunition%2F_%2FN-1100191%2FNo-48%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd739861%26WTz_st%3DGuided Nav%26WTz_stype%3DGNP&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd739861%3Bcat104567580

These types are full bore and suitable for smoothbore shotgun.

The most common moulds for smoothbore are the Lyman Foster and Lee Drive Key Slug moulds:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Slug-Molds/products/148/

Before you start reloading though you should know that shotshell reloading is not like metallic cartridge reloading in that you cannot just work up a load. Get yourself a good shotshell loading manual or two and follow published recipes. All the components in shotshell reloading can have significant effects on pressure. You cannot simply choose to use Winchester AA hulls instead of Federal Gold Medal for a given load because you don't happen to have the Federals. Pressure could rise to dangerous levels.

The powder manufacturers also publish loads for their powders but generally data is more limited than in a manual. It is all free though, just visit the website.

It isn't terribly complicated or difficult, you just have to have the components the load recipe calls for.

Before I rambled on so long, I guess I should be asking what your goal is. If you just want to shoot slugs or buckshot occasionally then you may as well just buy factory rounds.

If you want to start loading your own then you will need to assemble some form of loading gear, collect hulls, wads and powders suitable for slug and buckshot loading and get a slug and/or buckshot mould.

Also, if you plan to shoot slugs and expect "good" accuracy then a barrel with rifle sights will help. A bead can be adequate for short range shooting but you really need proper sights for consistent accuracy.

I should also mention that you can get rifled choke tubes and some people find they provide much better accuracy than smoothbore. It all depends on slug, barrel, gun and load whether it works well or not. Shotguns are not generally made to the same tolerances that rifles and handguns are and there seems to be a bit of black magic required to get good slug accuracy from many guns.

Again, searching this forum will provide lots of info on what different people use and what works and doesn't work well.

Longbow

[MBTcustom]

I dont have any goals as of yet. I am blown away that
I have had good results from both bore size (0.735") RB's and 0.662" RB's "shimmed" to snug fit into a shotcup. I can count on 3" to 4" groups at 50 yards with these. is even possible with a smoothbore! Very interesting! You know me and how I do things, I wonder if I could make my own dies for reloading with the 'ol rockchucker.
Thanks for the heads-up on loads being hull-specific. I never would have thought that. I am interested in that round-ball load you mentioned. That sounds like all kinds of fun! Have you ever shot one of those cannon balls through a chronograph?

[MarkW]

Since you asked, RCBS does make dies that fit in a rockchucker:

http://www.gunaccessories.com/RCBS/ShotshellDies.asp

But they cost more than what a reloader by itself costs. What I do not see is what sort of shooting do you wish to do with this newest member of the family of yours, have you figured that out yet?

[UNIQUEDOT]

The slugs I was shooting were the cup style I think. I see a round nose with a dimple in the middle.

These sound like federal foster slugs to me. I would obtain an open choke of improved cylinder or one of 0 constriction (cylinder) and see what the results are. If you had no other choice the Ponsness Warren can be used to load slugs and buckshot, but it's really not suitable. I like Lee load all's and a mec sizemaster for all my slug and buck loading.

[longbow]

Smoothbores can do fairly well with round balls to 50 yards or so but the groups tend to open up quickly much beyond I think due to the ball picking up spin from drag in the air. Once spinning they take off like a curve ball.

I have read about and been told that good smoothbore musket loads with patched round ball can deliver under 6" at 100 yards. Not done it myself. A patched ball would have no spin on it as it left the barrel so would take time to start to rotate from drag.

Drag stabilized slugs like Fosters or Brennekes should provide better long range accuracy than a ball. However, I have only had decent accuracy with a few thick skirted hollow base slugs due to the tendency to skirt deformation as they slug up at firing. This happens with pretty much any design I have seen including Lee Drive Key slugs, Lyman Foster and sabot, Rapine, and even Gualandi factory DGS slugs. The only solution I have found is casting the slug out of wheelweights and heat treating. Those tend to stand up pretty well and recovered slugs show little to no distortion.

For moderate ranges to 50 yards and maybe a little further, round balls work pretty well with a good load. There are several common sizes of moulds available that will either fit the bore (no choke allowed here!) or that fit into a standard shotcup. A ball of about 0.680" or less is a good fit for most shotcups and if not too tight will go through a choke though as mentioned, it should not be more than about 0.003" over choke diameter for ball/shotcup combo.

Balls are easy to cast, easy to load and penetrate well.

Good slug loads should provide as good or better accuracy at 50 yards and be better than balls at longer range. They just tend to be slower to cast and load adn there are limited mould styles available unless you go custom.

Some have good success with 0.690" RB but I have never managed to get that size to perform well. I generally like 0.754" bore size RB for cylinder bore but wad columns have to be built out of gas seal and hard card wads.

I also use 0.662" RB "patched" into a shotcup. Those are easy to load and give good accuracy.

RCBS makes a 0.678" RB mould that is about the perfect size for standard shotcup and one day I may buy one of those.

Slug loading recipes are somewhat limited at least compared to shot load recipes so it is best to use a slug of about 1 oz. as there are quite a number or load recipes for that weight.

Got to go but there is lots to talk about if you want.

Longbow

[MBTcustom]

That's awesome! I mainly have been wanting a shotgun for busting birds and clays and self defense for the wifey. But the very second I punched a couple 5/8" holes in the target paper, I realized the usefulness of this gun in thick areas where the deer might pop out closer than 30 yards. Not only that but it looks like it might be cheap fun to launch those huge slugs or round balls at paper for kicks!
I see that things havn't changed since the last time I loaded shotshells on the Warren, I quit because the cost of shot, wads, and primers, made it to where I was breaking even with the cheap shells that wal-mart sells. So I will continue to buy the fine shot from the store, but slugs are selling for $1 a piece! so there must be some savings there.
It has been 10 years since I had a shotgun. I traded a realy nice 870 express for books when I was in college because I couldn't afford them. It got me through that semester, but I always regretted having to get rid of that gun. When I was out yesterday, I felt like the luckiest guy on the planet and I just enjoyed the heck out of myself going boom, boom, boom with my new gun. I remembered how much fun this is!
By the way, I checked, and those were federal Maximum Hi-shock sluggs. 2 3/4" 70MM. They look pretty old.

[MBTcustom]

I checked out the Lee shotgun loader on midwayusa:http://www.midwayusa.com/product/436640/lee-load-all-2-shotshell-press-12-gauge-2-3-4-3
Looks like it would do nicely and It certainly looks lighter than the Warren!
Would this do the roll crimp for slugs?

[UNIQUEDOT]

The load all is a very small press. It won't do a roll, but roll crimpers are inexpensive. If you can get your hands on an old lee loader to go with the load all it will do roll crimps on paper or plastic hulls if the previous crimp was rolled, but it won't resize. Don't pay ebay prices for them though as they can still be found for ten or twenty dollars if one is patient. You can check the various forums and usually find load alls for around $25.00 quite often. I like the original load all better than the load all II's and they can be found in unused condition for as little as $20.00 to $25.00 on shooting forums. BTW the lee loader won't roll crimp slugs without an overshot card on top of the slug because of the way the rammer is designed. It rolls buck and bird loads very nicely though.

[MBTcustom]

I saw the Lee handloaders and they look simple as dirt. I could make one that re-sizes the hulls with a hammer like the Lee loaders do for brass cartridges. Heck, they only use hand pressure to operate the loader!
Im having trouble with the roll crimp idea. Is the drill-press thing the only way to get a roll crimp on a shot-shell? Is there not a press mounted way available? I dont have a drill press, and the roll crimp tool that goes in the drill press, costs almost as much as the load-all press does.

[longbow]

You have a lathe. I roll crimp in my lathe. Also, I think if you are careful you can roll crimp using a hand drill though it might be a bit awkward to get even crimps all the time. A jig of some sort would fix that though.

There used to be very simple hand crank roll crimpers available but I haven't seen a new one for... well, maybe never. They look a little like a case trimmer but larger. With a lathe you could make one.

Having said that, you don't have to roll crimp. Fold crimp is called for in many recipes and while roll crimp gives a little firmer compression for for better powder ignition and burn, I doubt it makes a huge difference and some don't crimp at all, they just cut the hull back a bit and leave it open using beeswax or other to hold the slug in place.

I wouldn't get too excited about the crimp just yet. In fact, I just reviewed the Lee slug loading data and they imply, but don't say directly, that a fold crimp is used for their recipes.

The old Lee Loaders used a hardened steel ring to resize the metal case head. Again, with a lathe you could make one that is a snug fit on factory rounds and it should do the trick. You will need a little more than hand pressure but a plastic faced hammer or wooden mallet will work.

Longbow

[UNIQUEDOT]

Is there not a press mounted way available?

The only press i know of that did roll or fold crimps was the Lyman easy. They show up quite often and sell for an average of $50.00, but you have to locate the the extra roll crimp dies for them as i have rarely seen them included with the presses. I have seen the dies for sale separately as well for less than $20.00.

The load all has a steel ring sizer with it like longbow was talking about so i assume he meant load all. I had a collection of just about every lee loader made in every gauge and length except 10 ga. and i have never seen a resizer for them other than a shell resizer that didn't actually size the metal... it was a full length sizer and was sold as an accessory .

If you want roll crimps, resized shells and want to do it cheap you can buy a ring resizer for five bucks and a roll crimper from precision reloading... yes they work fine in a hand drill. All you would need would be a nail and dowel as a block of wood with the correct diameter hole drilled through it would serve as a resizing block.

The old time hand crank roll crimpers that longbow was talking about are also available on a daily basis on the online auctions, but they go from ten to fifty bucks depending on who else happens to be looking at the same time you are. I once had a shoebox full of those as well.

[MBTcustom]

I found a video of a guy loading a slug on youtube and he used one of those roll crimp hand-powered machines. I am certain that I could make one of those easy enough. It would be less bulky too.
Where do you get the wadding for loading round balls? Or how do you make them?
Oh my gosh! I just got my first boolit! I have posted 1000 times! Wow!

[Norbrat]

Many years ago I bought a kit to trim off the star crimp part of the shell and a roll crimper to use in a drill press. Total cost was about $20.

I will take some pics of it tonight and post them.

The parts are very agricultural and I am sure you could make your own.

[MBTcustom]

Thanks Norbrat! Things like that are a lot of help indeed!

[longbow]

In answer to your question "Where do you get the wadding for loading round balls? Or how do you make them?"

It all depends on what you want to do.

I started wanting a bore size round ball to work and it did pretty well but I found I was building wad columns which is a bit tedious if you are loading many balls.

I also decided to try a "sub caliber" ball to put into shotcups. I found I had to use nitro card wads under the slug to keep the shotcup bottom (top of cushion leg) from extruding around the ball. 20 ga. or 16 ga. nitro card wads work well and the 20 ga. can be easily dropped into the shotcup. A scoop of cornmeal or COW cam also be used to raise the ball for good crimp and to form a cup for the ball. This also worked well and is quicker and easier since the shotcup is used as is same as for shot loads. The nitro card wads drop in easily and a scoop of COW follows if desired.

As for ball sizes, that depends on the shotcup being used. I found that I did not get good results using 0.690" balls in any shotcup I tried though some people say they get good results. I went smaller and "patch" a 0.662" ball into a standard shotcup. That is obviously a little more work than just dropping in a ball but is still easier than building wad columns ~ at least I think so.

An alternative is to use donut wads which used to be available but I do not see any now when I have looked. They are a felt wad with a hole in the middle so the ball sits in the hole and stays centered. You can make them yourself from felt or drilled/punched nitro card wads or hard card wads. An inverted .20 ga. gas seal may also work (speculation on my part as I haven't tried it).

The benefit of an undersize ball is that it should go through any choke it may meet. Also a 0.662" ball is exactly 1 oz. and there are lots of load recipes for 1 oz. slugs that can be used.

Another option for 0.662" RB is thick petal steel shot shotcups. Depending on type, the 0.662" ball is a good fit into some of those. No fuss, no muss ~ a nitro card wad dropped in then a scoop of COW then the ball.

As you may have guess by now, I like the undersize ball and have found it works pretty well for me and is easy to load.

I did just recently pick up a Lee Drive Key slug mould too. Of all teh slug designs I have tried, the Lee was not one... but soon will be. They also drop into a standard shotcup so are easy to load. I like easy!

If you want to make donut wads do search here and look for "donut wads" and "tommygirl". She posted pictures of her donut wad jig.

UNIQUEDOT is correct, the Lee LoadAll comes with the steel ring not the Lee Loader though I used my Lee LoadAll sizer with the Lee Loader. I was thinking the ring came with the Lee Loader it has been so long since I used it. In any case, for a guy with a lathe, making a sizing ring or a sizing die would be pretty easy. The Lee sizing ring may be available for cheap too and easier than making your own. Simple as they are they actually work pretty slick.

I will second UNIQUEDOT's comment on the Lee LoadAll II. I used to have a Lee LoadAll in 20 ga. and it worked pretty well. I later went to 12 ga. and bought a Lee LoadAll II. It worked but really isn't very good. I preferred to use my old Lee Loader over the LoadAll II.

I moved up a notch or two and bought a used MEC Sizemaster and am very happy with it. More recently I picked up a MEC 600 Junior for $20.00 and it works very well too.

Take a look around and you may get some deals once you know what you want and what to look for.

Longbow

[Norbrat]

Thanks Norbrat! Things like that are a lot of help indeed!

OK, took some pics but apologies for the blurry one.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/109144f13fcb9925aa.jpg

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/109144f13fcb94b505.jpg

The cut-off tool is basically a tube so you can cut a hull to a consistent length. The flange just helps to clamp the tool in a vise and you use a Stanley knife (or similar) to trim the hull and remove the star crimp.

The roll crimp tool is fitted into a drill press and the loaded hull is held in your hand on the table and you feed the tool down onto the edge of the trimmed hull. It works surprisingly well.

I haven't loaded slugs for quite a few years, probably not since our government "confiscated" our pump action shotguns.

I've done all my shotgun reloading using a Lee Loadall Junior, which Lee no longer make, but can be found on eBay occasionally.

But you won't need even that. If you know how a Lee Loader works, it's easy enough to make the bits and pieces.

I never bothered to size the hulls, figuring that if they go into the chamber, it should be OK, and it always worked fine. It's not like you need to put any tension on a neck, like with a brass case.

So you can easily make a tool to use with a mallet to de-prime the case. Then all you need to re-prime it is to sit the primer on a hard surface, place the hull over it, put a tube inside the hull and use a mallet to seat the primer.

Put powder in the case, then the tricky bit is getting the wad into the hull. I reckon you can get a Lee Loadall wad guide from the spare parts list (SKU A1061 $1.50!!) You may be able to just let the wad guide sit on top of the trimmed hull and use a pusher in a reloading press to fit the wad, but this may collapse the hull, so you may need to make a fitting to help you to do this. A simple tube the correct length which fits over the hull and supports the wad guide would do.

The hollow based slug I used is cast using a CBE mould and it is designed to fit inside the fingers of the wad. Cutting the hull meant that the wad was too long to fit inside the hull with the powder, so I cut the "spring" out of the middle of the wad, figuring the slug really doesn't need "cushioning" to prevent distortion of pellets. So the wad was now in 2 pieces; the inverted "funnel" to seal the powder, and the "fingers" directly on top of the funnel. Worked well for me.

I never grouped the loads, but they certainly worked at close range on pigs. No problem punching straight through the front solid skull of some quite large boars.

I really don't remember what powder I used, but the ADI reloading manual suggests using slightly slower powders for slugs than you would use for pellet loads. Unique might be a good choice.

Anyway, hope this gives a bit more info. I will send some more details of the tools via PM.

It's getting a bit late here in Oz, so it may be tomorrow before I get the details drawn up.

[MBTcustom]

If I could get this type of info on electronics it wouldn't be such a mystery to me. Thanks for that great detailed explanation! I think I'm starting to formulate a plan.
They took your pump action shotguns?!?!? Those words make my blood biol! Did anyone give up all their ammo first? (one shot at a time that is)

[shotman]

resizing most likely you wont need to do since you are using the same gun. The roll crimp s will only last about 3 times. Unless you cut the old off. That works but you have to keep changeing wad height.
the old hand crank things you see on feebay work good if you warm the hull with a hair drier
Most will be a 12 ga
as said before the simple press is all you need as most of what you are loading is done by hand the buck shot you need to place them so that they dont bridge and mess up the crimp
There was a guy on here had a bunch of hulls that were roll crimped. He may still have them . Post in wanted

[MBTcustom]

Milkman hooked me up with a truckload of presses for a very small fee. Now I have several options for reloading 12 gauge. Good friends are hard to find and he made sure that I would not ever do without! (Thanks buddy!!!)
I also used the drawing that Norbrat sent me and made a roll crimp tool (although the drill-bit walked off as I was drilling through for the roll-pin) It seems to sorta-kinda work. I'm going to try again later.
Now I have to ask about powder. I have a bunch of Clays on hand because thats what I use with my 45ACP, but hodgdons web-sight does not list that powder for slugs:
http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp
Also, they stipulate a certain primer and a certain hull and a certain wad column. How important is it to follow these instructions to the T? Can I substitute other wads and projectiles as long as they equal the same weight as the published data?
For instance, they give a bazillion loads for Clays with regular shot in the the cup, at various weights ie. 7/8, 1, 1 1/8, 1 1/4, and 1 1/2 Oz shot weights. As long as the projectile in question weighs the correct amount, would it matter what I'm loading in there? I realy have my hat set for the round ball and buckshot loads, but I want to use a powder that I already use for something else (If it makes sense to do it).

Longbow wrote:

I have had good results from both bore size (0.735") RB's and 0.662" RB's "shimmed" to snug fit into a shotcup.
how exactly did you "shim" the round ball?
What would be the best investment in your opinion? .662, or .735?

[longbow]

Well, you ask some good questions.

The short story is to use published load data from a manual. That is that safest way to high performance slug loads.

Having said that, it is generally accepted that substituting a slug for equal weight shot load is safe as slugs develop less pressure than shot loads.

A 0.662" ball is exactly 1 oz. in pure lead and slightly lighter in wheelweights so it suits many shot and slug recipes since most slug loads are for 1 oz. +/- a bit.

Also, round ball loads should be safe substitutes for equal weight slug loads except that a round ball will not tolerate a choke smaller than the ball.

If you are not pursuing high performance slug loads then a round ball or slug of equal weight to a shot load will work fine assuming all other components are per the recipe. Velocity should be slightly higher than the shot load. Slug specific load recipes are generally significantly higher velocity that shot loads.

I "patch" the 0.662" ball into a shotcup by using cloth or paper strips much like patching for a muzzleloader. If you have cylinder bore, you do not have to worry about a choke so a 0.678" RB in a standard shotcup is probably the best fit you will find in standard RB mould.

I tend to be lazy so choose easiest methods and using standard shotcups, dropping in a nitro card wad and scoop of COW into a shotcup then dropping in a round ball is easy. Best of all it works well too.

Just make sure that any RB or slug/wad combo fits through any choke. Most hollow base slugs are designed to swage down through a choke but round balls and solid slugs are not so choke friendly.

As for substitutions, I don't get too excited about wad substitutions as long as they are both cushion leg wads, However, hulls and primers are a different matter entirely . According to at least two of my loading manuals, substitution of a primer can raise pressure by 3000 PSI. Also, using small volume hulls like Win AA for recipes listed for large volume hulls like Federal Gold Medal can also produce significant increases in pressure.

Best investment would probably be Lee 0.690" ball mould and use donut wads or inverted gas seals to center the ball in the bore. Personally I have had poor results with 0.690" ball naked or in shotcups but have not tried the donut wads or inverted gas seals.

RCBS was offering 0.678" double cavity RB moulds and if I was in the market for a new RB mould I think that would be it.

My best results with RB have been with undersize ball patched to shotcup or bore size ball.

Longbow

[MBTcustom]

Wow good info! I have more questions if you will endure another barrage.
I see that choke is of great concern. I have a removable choke and I will not be using it. Assuming that we are talking about a cylinder bore, does your advice still hold on ball size?
Do you lube the patch with anything to make it slippery? like wax or 45/45/10?
What material have you tried for that patch? Since you mention doing it like a muzzle loader, I am assuming you mean pillow ticking?
Have you ever run a round ball with a folded crimp?
Have you ever tried a bore-size round ball rolled in 45/45/10?
Are Lee round ball molds any good for this? I had good results on smaller Lee RB molds for .44BP but thats all the experience I have had.
Back to powder, do you get any feel for burn rate and its effect on accuracy? Do slower powders do better for RB and slug loads than the faster ones?
My specific goal is to get an accurate RB load for this shotgun that will move along at 1400 FPS (accurate being defined as less than 4" at 50 yards). That's a goal, not a requirement. If I could make that happen I would be smiling like the Grinch all the way to the deer woods. That would be the ultimate close range deer/pig weapon I have ever used. I would need this for 50 yards and closer for hunting dense woods where the foliage demands close quarter shots. In situations like that, the action is fast and furious and a bolt gun just isn't fast enough to deliver two aimed shots back to back like a shotgun would be able to.:drinks:

[longbow]

As for choke, the general accepted advice is to make sure that a slug/wad combo is not more than about 0.003" over the tightest constriction in the bore. If cylinder bore then no more than 0.003" max. over bore diameter. If choked bore then 0.003" over the choke diameter. I have had no problems using my Browning slug barrel with IC choke at 0.710" and this technique though I normally use cylinder bore. Not sure how well it would work for a full choke.

I have also shot 0.735" RB's through smoothbore and a rifled Remington 870 so considerably over bore/groove diameter but then a ball does not have much meat to swage at the equator. These worked well in both guns.

I would not want to be shooting a full bore solid slug that is over choke diameter through a choke. Ribbed or hollow base slugs are designed to swage through a choke. I have been warned not to shoot my 0.715" balls through my 0.710" IC choke by a very experienced slug shooter and experimenter. I suspect the ball would swage through the choke but do not want to try it as the barrel is thin at the choke.

My preference for ease of loading and seemingly better accuracy is a slug or ball in shotcup. This has worked better for me than bore size slugs.

I have rolled 0.735" RB's in LLA and had no leading at all.

If slug or ball is loaded into shotcup of course no lube is required.

As for "patching" or "shimming", I didn't have any thick petal steel shot shotcups so decided to try cloth patching 0.662" balls into regular shotcups for which they are quite undersize.

I pre-cut square patches then loaded a hull up to shotcup placed inside, dropped in a nitro card wad, poured COW in to raise the ball height for good crimp, placed a square patch over the hull mouth, put a ball on it and used the press to seat it. Both roll and fold crimp seemed to work but I would have to look up load info to find out if there was any significant accuracy difference (if I can find it).

I have also "patched" or "shimmed" using crossed paper strips like for muzzleloading slug gun. Same technique, just place crossed paper strips over the case mouth, place a ball on top and seat. This also works with my attached wad slug mould I made for testing in thick petal shotcups. It is 0.654" diameter so needs a little more patching than the 0.662" ball. Of course if I had thick petal shotcups I wouldn't have to patch.

It is a bit of a pain to patch but it works. Better would be a slug or ball at about 0.675" to 0.685". BPI does or did list RB recipes for 0.690" balls in one of their shotcups so it must have thin petals. I have had poor success using 0.690" balls but I have not used the BPI shotcup. Lee does make a 0.690" ball mould so that is an inexpensive way to try out RB in shotcup.

Using undersize RB in a donut wad should solve the patching problem and be easier to load as well. I have not played with donut wads yet but have read that they work quite well. Same for inverted gas seal under the ball ~ cup up to center the ball.

So much to try, so little time!

I went through a spell of loading and shooting all sorts of ball and slug loads but am still learning. So far balls and attached wad solis slugs have given me the best accuracy.

I have mostly used Blue Dot for heavy slug loads but have recipes for RB using several different powders. The Blue Dot has worked well for me so far so I keep using it. I do have some IMR4756 now and will be trying it. With lighter slugs and balls of around 1 oz. there are lots of load recipes using faster powders.

Do a search of this forum and look for VdoMemorie, turbo1889 and greg5278 in specific but you will find lots of info posted on round ball and slug shooting. These guys know way more than I do.

Longbow

[MBTcustom]

Thanks Longbow your a wealth of practical information.

[Norbrat]

I also used the drawing that Norbrat sent me and made a roll crimp tool (although the drill-bit walked off as I was drilling through for the roll-pin) It seems to sorta-kinda work. I'm going to try again later.

Try cross drilling the hole before you machine the end profile. That way the drill won't try to wander through a half-hole, if you know what I mean.

The 15° taper seems to start to fold the end of the hull in then the roll pin does the work of actually rolling it over. I don't think I need to say that obviously the slot in the roll pin needs to be opposite where the hull hits the roll pin. :smile: