Lot of parts in a Smelly!

[Ragnarok]

Need a stiff upper lip...and a magnetic parts tray just to take the forearm off a No.1 Mk.III* rifle.

Trigger assembly and two screws...front band/sight protector and two screws/plus a funky barrel support plunger and coil spring...another funky screw and coil spring that threads into a barrel band...plus the rear band and screw plus sling swivel....this just parts and sub-assemblys involved in pulling the front wood off..:|...lots of other bits and pieces in the rest of it I imagine.:veryconfu

For such a simple looking musket the older No.1 Mk.III rifle is an intricate beast!!

[docone31]

They are!
But, they are sure a sweet rifle.

[MBTcustom]

Jolly good!
(couldn't resist!)
Enjoy it, Its a very nice rifle.

[Dschuttig]

Intricate, yes. But a very, very proven battle rifle in almost any condition. Ever see on of the videos of the guys "rapid firing" those things in combat? Awesome

[Ragnarok]

I guess technicaly...this one's a 'Short Lee Enfield' according to the butt-socket markings...

[Dead Dog Jack]

Although the butt socket has always been marked Sht L E, the official name of the rifle was indeed "Rifle, Short, Magazine Lee-Enfield" followed by the mark. That "Sht" marking only deviated from the long Lee Enfields which were marked only L E.

So, what year is your SMLE? Technically, they were only designated No. 1 rifles after 1926!

[Ragnarok]

This one dates to 1918...a well used Standard Small Arms rifle.

I guess it indeed is a 'Smelly'...

[Dead Dog Jack]

An SSA? Even better! That makes it a "peddled scheme" SMLE. Peddled scheme Enfield parts (bolts, barrels, receivers, others) were produced at the Standard Small Arms plant (later, the National Rifle Factory) and sent to the main factories such as Enfield or BSA for assembly. Best estimates are that only 300,000 peddled scheme rifles were produced.

So, your SMLE is way less common than the other makes. You should post some photos.

[Ragnarok]

I need to get set up for pic-posting...I'll see if my wife will help me..she's computer literate.

Really wasn't for sure who made it when I bought it. Figured it for an Enfield. I bought it off a fellow shooter. When I figured out it was a rarer SSA made rifle I called my pal and told him about it...he already knew it was a Standard Small Arms rifle....he figured that was why I wanted it!!

Oh well. Quite a few factorys made Lee Enfields. I started my Enfield collection all backwards. My first Lee Enfield was/is a 1945 BSA No.5 Mk.I carbine. The next a 1966 RFI No.4 Mk.I(really a wartime Maltby the Indians rebuilt and remarked)....Now the 1918 SSA rifle.

I'll see if I can catch my lady in a good mood and get her to put me some pics up.

[Ray1946]

I have a No.1 MkIII* made at Lithgow. Mine is a 42' with a really nice barrel. I am planning on bedding it, and found a lot of info on the Lee-Enfield site about setting up for accuracy. I may try to locate a Parker-Hale sight for it.

I like restoring these old rifles, but the Enfield is going to be a real challenge. I have never seen so much melted and dried out rifle grrease on 1 gun in my life. Aside from that, I think all will turn out well.

The one really nice thing about the SMLE is the ability to exchange the butt-stocks. I have short arms and the "S" butt-stock fits me perfectly...........

[leadman]

I think it was SARCO that had the Parker Hale sight listed in the Shotgun News.

[303Guy]

I differentiate between the Sht LE and the SMLE. The SMLE was the Mk III. Sht LE was a Mk I. I need to check mine But think some were simply LE and others LE I.

[Dead Dog Jack]

I differentiate between the Sht LE and the SMLE. The SMLE was the Mk III. Sht LE was a Mk I. I need to check mine But think some were simply LE and others LE I.

Magazine Lee Enfields (what we commonly call Long Lee Enfields) were marked on the butt socket as just "LE" and under that was the mark. (Lee Metfords didn't have a designation, only a mark stamp. ie. II or II*)

With the introduction of the SMLE, the butt socket marking was changed to Sht LE and stayed that way until production ended. This does not, however, apply to later Ishapores.

Here they are in order: Lee Metford Mk II, Lee Enfield Mk I*, SMLE Mk I, an SMLE Mk III, a Peddled Scheme, a late Ishy No. 1 Mk 3*.

http://web.mac.com/cswaffie/socket/Metford.jpeghttp://web.mac.com/cswaffie/socket/longLee.jpeghttp://web.mac.com/cswaffie/socket/mk1socket2.jpghttp://web.mac.com/cswaffie/socket/SMLE.jpghttp://web.mac.com/cswaffie/socket/peddlescheme.jpghttp://web.mac.com/cswaffie/socket/LateIshapore.jpeg

[303Guy]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Here you can see where I got the idea all Mk III's were stamped SMLE. I have a 1904 BSA&Co ShtLE I - the forerunner with part of the clip charger guide mounted on the bolt head (that part has been removed - pity). That's now my pig gun. I just assumed that all Mk III's were stamped SMLE. (Assumptions ..... [smilie=1: )

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/303-25003.jpg

[Dead Dog Jack]

Yes, yes! I know exactly what you are saying!

For some reason it seems that both Ishapore and Lithgow marked them differently during WWII. Earlier, the Lithgows had a shield surrounding the marking. Like this.

http://web.mac.com/cswaffie/socket/Lithgow.jpg

Lithgow made some really good examples of the SMLE.

[Dead Dog Jack]

I have a 1904 BSA&Co ShtLE I - the forerunner with part of the clip charger guide mounted on the bolt head (that part has been removed - pity). That's now my pig gun.



Hey, did you ever post pictures of that 1904 BSA? I'd love to see it.

[303Guy]

I got it with a longer barrel, bent from hammering the front site ring on and bore badly rusted. Have a look for Paper Patch Pig Gun Project under smokeless paper patching for what I've done with it.
Here's the link; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=74297

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-646F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-549F-2.jpg

[Dead Dog Jack]

That is interesting. What do you do, carry it in the truck? Or is this a purpose hunting rifle (ie. you carry it out on a hunt)?

[303Guy]

It now has a full over barrel suppressor and a scope and wears a plastic buttstock and no fore-end. It was supposed to be for bush, mud and rain. It's so handy I want to use it all the time. I can drive 205gr paper patch boolits over 2000fps with it but the accuracy at higher velocities still needs to be achieved. It's light and I have elbow-itus so don't like a heavy rifle any more. This one suites me fine. I can even stick it in my belt for carry. Otherwise I clip a rifle onto my shoulder strap.

[bydand]

An SSA? Even better! That makes it a "peddled scheme" SMLE. Peddles scheme Enfields were assembled at the National Rifle Factory (later, the Standard Small Arms plant) with many of it's parts produced from around the trade at various manufactories. Best estimates are that only 300,000 peddled scheme rifles were produced.

So, your SMLE is way less common than the other makes. You should post some photos.
Slight correction . Neither SSA or NRF, when SSA was taken over by the gubmint produced complete rifles. Only recievers, barrels, trigger guards and barrel bands.
The firm was used as a "Feeder Factory" for BSA who added the rest of the parts and assembled them into rifles.

You are thinking of WW2 "Dispersal rifles when many small firms produced parts which were then assembled into rifles by the factory. The Luftwaffe had the bad taste to bomb BSA.

[Multigunner]

I've read of a plant set up by former Enfield employees during WW1 that used semi and unskilled female and unfit for duty young men to produce usable SMLE rifles from parts rejected at the main factories.

Rejected parts were sorted through and rectified by rethreading, re heat treatment, etc. Parts from finished rifles could seldom be interchanged.
By the time they had produced a few thousand rifles, it was decided that these were not suitable for issue, placed in storage, and ordered destroyed after the war.
The project did serve to train many young people who might later have gone to work for the major arms manufacturers.

I only heard of this from an article with a study of several existing examples, with details on the non interchangable parts.

Rifles of other manufacture can sometimes be found with a marking indicating that it is built partly with non interchangable parts.

I think a similar project using women and young boys to assemble No.4 rifles was done during WW2.

PS
I think the major damage to BSA was due to a industrial accident, when a massive boiler explosion caused casualties and seriously damaged the facility. The British then used this accident as a method of convincing the Germans that a British Double agent had developed a sabotage network which had blown up BSA.
The double agent used his credibility with German Intelligence to lure many German agents into a trap. The Germans continued to receive messages that convinced them that their agents were still active, and lost many of their contacts to the scam.

BSA may have also been damaged by bombing as well.

During WW2 Lithgow only assembled No.1 rifles from subcontracted parts. The majority of the machinery at Lithgow was turned over to production of the BREN Gun and other automatic weapons.
Lithgow was also forced to use a lot of unskilled and semi-skilled workers.
Many of the parts were produced by companies with no prior firearms production experiance, but this was common for American weaponry of WW2 as well.


PS
.303 Guy
You should put a long spring steel clip on the left side of the fore end, so you could carry that stubby like a pirate with pistol clipped to his sash.

[PAT303]

From memory Lithgow stopped rifle assembly altogether around '42 and the rifles were built in Orange,Bathurst,Forbes etc but all were sent to Lithgow for proofing,final inspection before being issued so all were stamped Lithgow.The factory has an excellent museum but all types of Lee Enfield rifles,trials rifles,experiments etc and run by a small very knowledgeable group of men.They also gunsmith LE rifles for the many service rifle shooters that use LE's on a weekly basis. Pat

[Dead Dog Jack]

Neither SSA or NRF, when SSA was taken over by the gubmint produced complete rifles.

Yep. Post modified. Claiming old age! :veryconfu

[Ragnarok]

So just what pieces should have matching numbers on an SMLE?....I think all I have matching is the receiver and barrel..and nosecap.

I don't see any numbers on the mag..bolt doesn't match...I suspect the forearm is original..but if it had a number it's long gone...see no numbers on the triggerguard...stock and handguards are beech replacements(no disc on the stock either or ever). stock has visable reminants of the 'ED' Enfield stamp(only wood marking on the rifle).

Still have not fired the rifle either..or reminded my lady to bring her digital camera home from work..

I did check out the headspace..and it's all good. My No.4 Mk.I had such loose headspace it wouldn't even fire!...Had a #1 bolthead...I had a difficult time finding one..but managed to get a #3 bolthead and fixed it right up. I don't think the Smellys are set-up with standardized different size boltheads..so I worried about the headspace being out of whack on this old musket..

[Dead Dog Jack]

Parts with serial number: Barrel, receiver, bolt, nosecap, rear sight leaf, forearm (underside, front - right behind the nosecap). I can't say what the rule is on magazines - I've seen some with the serial and many, many without.

[Multigunner]

Not sure when matching numbering of Magazines began, but I've been told they weren't numbered in the early days. Troops switching mags by mistake could lead to mis feeds. Its not uncommon for a mag to work perfectly in one rifle but misfeed in another.

Its always better to have an un numbered part than a part with number that doesn't match.

Nosecaps were carefully fitted then numbered to the rifle.
Bolt bodies and action bodies bore a PAA (proofed action assembly) number on underside of bolt handle root and mating area of the butt socket. After assembly a regular serial numbering this PAA was usually removed. I've seen many Lithgow rifles with PAA numbers intact. This indicates that the original bolt body is still there.
No way of knowing whether a bolt handle without PAA number is original to the rifle, even if the serial number matches the receiver ring number.
Scrubbing and renumbering of rifles seems to have been fairly common, especially once these left U K service.

PS
Its very common to find several non matching numbers lined through on the underside of a sight rail.
Rear sights were expensive and recycled whenever possible.