Gunsamerica CEO - Seriously WHAT were you thinking?

[Silicon Wolverine]

http://www.shotshowblog.com/gun-bloggers-and-internet-media-instant-viral-coverage-of-the-shot-show/

"Now the question is when you are going to start qualifying internet media? We have to crawl over nobodies who can install wordpress and have nobody reading anything they write, It isn't so hard to qualify internet media using Alexa.com and Compete.com. Why do you waste the manufacturers' time and make the real internet media have to deal with wish I were internet journalists who are just using your stamp of approve to solicit review guns and accessories? You've created this giant gorilla in the room and we all have to deal with it, and you may think the industry takes your numbers seriously, but everyone sees things for what they are. If you are serious about bringing value to your exhibitors, you need to vet the press list."

"There is nothing like killing yourself for ten or fifteen years to have to wait for a guy to shoot his video for Colt on his cellphone at media day."

"You are a wanna be internet media professional. Why don't you go into Compete.com and compare gunsamerica.com to any other gun website, not just blogs. You've never heard of us, and we are the industry leader in internet readership, after 15 years of hard work and dedication. Why should I have to wait for you to finish taking a video with your phone at range day? "


You might want to go a reasearch a couple things about how well internet media can spread a story. Try "Jim Zumbo", "ocean marketing" and "215gear rant".

nothing like putting your arrogant elteist attitude on public display.

SW

[Suo Gan]

The article makes sense to me. The gun magazines are going out. I would generally feel sorry for them going out, but the fact is that they are more beholden to their advertisers rather than their customers. They know which side their bread is buttered, fine they can read their magazines themselves then because no one else is. I can get subscriptions for magazines for much less than I could 20 years ago. I don't bother because there is nothing but fluff pieces meant to impress folks to buy something else they do not need. No useful load data, nothing of scientific merit, just a bunch of folks taking the next new whiz banger to Africa or abroad to hunt Marco Polo Sheep or tell folks how they shot a deer from a feeder in Kansas. Its boring, and like the article says mostly outdated once it is published anyway.

I will not be sorry to see these self serving dinosaurs pushing up daisies.

Now I do subscribe to a very few magazines that I think do not pattern themselves after the big boys. I would consider "The Fouling Shot", among them, but there is generally maybe one good article in it and the rest is the stats for the various CBA shoots, in reality you don't need the magazine because the articles in it are generally discussed on the CBA forum or here BEFORE they are published there, so it is already old news. But one article is better than a magazine full of ads and fluff articles I guess. I get "Farm Show" and "Gun Tests" and "Backwoodsman." If "Handloader" would go back to the format they used a few decades ago, I would buy that one again. I like "Backwoods Home", but I just buy their anthologies anymore.

[Silicon Wolverine]

How lame would it be if SHOT spent 20 grand setting up teh show, and the only people who showed up were a couple dozen self serving print journalists? SHOT is about getting your product out to as many people as possible.

SW

[Breadman03]

I only read the magazines with a free online edition. Even then, I think I only read about 4-5 pages. The rest is junk.

[stubshaft]

I can't remember the last time I bought a gun rag. Like Suo Gan said they only fluff up the advertisers products and have no real "meat" to their articles. How many times can we endure "9mm vs 45 Auto" or "Revolver vs Auto which is best"?

[theperfessor]

Stopped buying gun mags about a year after I discovered this site and realized what I could learn here. A lot more "signal" and a lot less "noise" here, and a chance to share the few things I know.

With internet marketing it is much less important that you pay a hefty fee to show off your product to traditional print writers. Anybody with a CNC machine, a computer with CAD program and an internet connection, and a set of blue prints for a 1911 or a black rifle can pretty well sell their custom stuff without kissing any writer's - er - pinky ring.

Didn't I just read where Apple and then IBM were pulling out of major technology conference? Not trying to cause a thread drift but maybe there will be some changes in the future in specialty conventions. It's expensive to set up and attend shows and conventions, especially for small firms.

[cdet69]

I still buy some magazines. I like Handloader and Rifle the best.I find Guns and Ammo and Rifle Shooter to be pushing their sponsors products pretty hard though. There is still something nice about being able pick a magazine and just read it for the pure pleasure of it.

[RayinNH]

The gun rags travel to the can a lot easier [smilie=1:...Ray

[stubshaft]

The gun rags travel to the can a lot easier [smilie=1:...Ray

My laptop isn't much heavier and the pictures are bigger.:kidding:

[casterofboolits]

The gun rags travel to the can a lot easier [smilie=1:...Ray

+1!!!!1:coffeecom

[Ed in North Texas]

I still buy some magazines. I like Handloader and Rifle the best.I find Guns and Ammo and Rifle Shooter to be pushing their sponsors products pretty hard though. There is still something nice about being able pick a magazine and just read it for the pure pleasure of it.

Ditto on the Wolf mags and the pleasure of reading printed matter.

[skeet1]

Even though Rifle and Handloader are better than the other gun magazines they too have suffered a lot in the last 20 years. If you don't think I'm right just look at the older ones form the late 70's or 80's, what a difference. Even the paper they were printed on was of higher quality.

Ken

[Freightman]

I haven't subscribed to a paper mag. in a very long time, haven't missed much as I did pick up one when at a business waiting to get my car serviced. Still just like years ago 1911's and black rifles, I do not have a thing against 1911's or black rifles but how much can be said over and over and over. It is like an old record that sticks the same note over and over get a little boring and you finally throw it away.

[perotter]

With internet marketing it is much less important that you pay a hefty fee to show off your product to traditional print writers. Anybody with a CNC machine, a computer with CAD program and an internet connection, and a set of blue prints for a 1911 or a black rifle can pretty well sell their custom stuff without kissing any writer's - er - pinky ring.



One thing I've seen with internet marketing for the black rifles is a company giving rifles to a few people to hawk their product on a leading black rifle forum.

FWIW, I do buy Shotgun New about once a month.

[MajorJim]

Ironic that it is those same "nobodies" that Mr. Helsinki relies upon to hawk his site.

The SHOT Show is one of these throwback "press only" industry shows where vendors hope to get some exposure to the general public via the "press" that is there. Without press credentials or some documented affiliation with a credible buying agency (military, police, etc) you and I would not be allowed in. No matter ho much money you or I spend personally on firearms related purchases.

So a question I have is why Gunsamerica is there in the first place. They do not produce anything, are not affiliated with the military or law enforcement, and are certainly not "press". I have never heard of the Gunsamerica blog, wand I suspect its primary purpose is related to discussions on individual purchases and buys. So, a preliminary question is why in the hell is Gunsamerica allowed in?

The "internet media" as scorned by Mr. Helsinki, is one of the few opportunities left that embodies the American Dream - hard work can allow one to build a thriving business. There are no real barriers to entry, and the sky is the limit. A good example of that is Gunblast - with the internet opportunities, those guys have built one heck of a site and following.

Yes, there are probably a lot of people that get in on internet blogger credentials with no experience, but those guys I would submit just want to attend shot - no credentials, no admittance.

I am still floored that Helsinki seems to think his less than industry leading site with its obscure and unknown blog earns him a place at a table that he wants to deny others a seat at.

Agree on all the comments on gun publications - had a personal experience where we were approached by a leading industry rag on a possible ad buy - they had several prices. The highest price was an ad package that included a positive article about the company by their best know writer (lesser known writers were less costly). And the highest price included a cover shoot. I am sure there are some out there that try to maintain some air of journalistic integrity, but for the most part they are a bunch of whores.

I guess Helsinki is in good company.

[Bret4207]

Fur Fish Game, Backwoodsman, Farmshow, Countryside, Small Farmers Journal. Those are about the only mags I buy any more other than the enthusiats mags like Oliver Heritage or Vintage Truck. I only subscribe tot he first 2, the rest I preview at the rack, just like Rifle and Handloader, to see if they are worth buying. Usually they aren't.

[WILCO]

Last gun rag I purchased was the Shotgun news and that was many moons ago. My interests are firmly planted in casting boolits and all I need is here.

[runfiverun]

what i really miss from the gun magazines is......
wait for it....
the how to articles,and the projects.
i'd like to see a how to on:
check makers,lapping a mold, measuring throats and bbl's,reloading for the sweet spot,bedding,throat angles.
an article on different types of rifling, twist rates.
what went right? what went wrong?
testing.
i don't need fluff. reviews are fine, honest what did they like,what were the problems and the fix's.
i really don't care that they went on a hunt with the new 329 superfoof.
i know it will kill a deer, i would rather read about it's development and an interview with the guy that thought it up.
if that is reported in print or on the internet, cool let me know where to find it, and i'll decide whether to continue reading or not.

[pmeisel]

I have never heard of Gunsamerica.com, and I like to think I get around pretty good.

Two thumbs up on Fur Fish Game. I don't subscribe anymore, but I pick up a few issues a year.

[starmac]

I reckon gunsamerica has been around as long as I have known how to use the internet, i don't know when it was started, but it has been awhile.

[bowfin]

I subscribe to Fur-Fish-Game and Shotgun News. They get passed to the brother who subscribes to Guns and Ammo and Shooting Times and vice versa.

I still like the newspaper and magazines to be in print, even though I work as an computer guy. Maybe even because of it.

I also subscribe to two newspapers. Used to be three, but they went from delivery to mailing, and that screwed things up for me.

[9.3X62AL]

I let my subscriptions to Handloader and Rifle lapse some time ago. They are still pretty much "best of breed", but are a far cry from the publications they were in the 1980s.

To be fair--I'M a far cry from the hobbyist I was in the 1980s, too. I think I've accumulated a lot of knowledge and experience I lacked back then, so perhaps the real issue isn't so much the magazines as the readership......that is, the readership that participates here. A lot of us have been at this a while.

[Recluse]

I let my subscriptions to Handloader and Rifle lapse some time ago. They are still pretty much "best of breed", but are a far cry from the publications they were in the 1980s.

To be fair--I'M a far cry from the hobbyist I was in the 1980s, too. I think I've accumulated a lot of knowledge and experience I lacked back then, so perhaps the real issue isn't so much the magazines as the readership......that is, the readership that participates here. A lot of us have been at this a while.

You know? That's a good point.

I still subscribe to Handloader, but I also subscribe to Hunter and Rifle via the electronic option, which insanely cheap at something like $28/year. I do so for a variety of reasons like:

• I'm an avid reader anyhow, so something gun related is always/usually good.

• Never know when I might find a jewel in the rough, information-wise.

• I'm worse than Charlie Chaplin when it comes to being suspicious of new technology, so keeping a few rags on the subscription list keeps me sort of in tune with what's happening.

• I'd rather support a magazine like Handloader than some of the magazines that pass for "gun stuff" and which are pure exploitive, opportunistic "tacticool"
garbage.

But, as you point out, the knowledge one has at their fingertips via a keyboard and the internet will far outpass anything you can subscribe to. What's more, I tend to trust the shooters, casters and handloaders here at Cast Boolits a LOT more than I do some of the "journalists" that write for the rags.

I've just read too much WRONG stuff over the years in the gun magazines. I've read wrong stuff on the internet too, but two differences:

1. There were people fast to instantly point it out, and

2. I didn't have to pay to read the statement that was just plain wrong.

:coffee:

[Johnk454]

I really miss the articles of my youth - Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton, John Wooters, Ken Waters, etc. Later, Finn Aagaard also.
Talk about Been-There-Done-That. I get the impression that most of the current crop really lacks real-world experience. Seems like a lot of New Gun On Canned Hunt articles.

I can see both sides of the internet media issue, tho. Without some sort of serious vetting, things like SHOT will vanish as the major players on both sides of the counter abandon it as unwieldy.

Gunblast is a shining star in a relatively dark ocean. Jeff and Boge have done a great job!

[Bret4207]

You know, when you look at todays writers and then you look at the guys like Skeeter, Elmer, Gene Hill, Ashley Haines, Nash Buckingham, O'Connor...they just aren't in the same class. There is no one, bar none, that can put you int he woods on a fall day like Gene Hill, especially if there is a puppy involved. Nobody today can sound like Skeeter or Elmer in print, that style of writing is just gone. More's the shame too. To have a man like Townsend Whelen try and write today just wouldn't sell, we're that much less than we were.

[cajun shooter]

GunsAmerica.Com was at the show to continue the greed that has taken over America.
Don't get me wrong as a former business owner that has been caught up in the current "DEPRESSION" and I call it that because I am not a bystander looking in. My wife and I have went from being comfortable to selling almost every thing we have to just keep our home and be able to eat our meals.
When a person is not affected by such things it means little to them.Just like going to war will make you open your eyes or spending a few nights in a patrol car.
Reading that many of you feel the same as me about the current downfall of the gun rags is very sad indeed. I remember how good I felt when my subscriptions arrived in that mailbox.
Reading all those greats like has been posted was a very fulfilling time. I gave up my subscriptions to Handloader, Rifle and Shotgun news this past year as the amount of printed pages became as thin as a dime. I went back the other day and looked at some of my from the 60's and 70's. My how things have gone downhill.
My biggest problem with the articles of today is the sell points that are pounded at you instead of the true story telling that took place so long ago.
It seems as if those guys were making a paycheck but were doing their best to entertain you at the same time. They did mention the product but it was in a manner that was easy to digest.
Let's face it, the days of our youth are never going to return and with the current elections and the candidates that are posed to take over, we are in trouble that will only widen the gap. Find those old mags and take one to your next visit with the man about a dog. Later David

[bobthenailer]

I to am disappointed in the current crop of gun magiaines. Im dropping guns & ammo & shooting times when my subscrptions run out . but will still contune to get handloader & handguns and possibley american handgunner/ knife magazine . I like knives but there are to many articles on knives in a supposedly handgun magazine . If i wanted to read about knives i would buy a knife magazine. I wonder how many gun articles are in knife magazines ?

[MakeMineA10mm]

what i really miss from the gun magazines is......
wait for it....
the how to articles,and the projects.
i'd like to see a how to on:
check makers,lapping a mold, measuring throats and bbl's,reloading for the sweet spot,bedding,throat angles.
an article on different types of rifling, twist rates.
what went right? what went wrong?
testing.
i don't need fluff. reviews are fine, honest what did they like,what were the problems and the fix's.
i really don't care that they went on a hunt with the new 329 superfoof.
i know it will kill a deer, i would rather read about it's development and an interview with the guy that thought it up.
if that is reported in print or on the internet, cool let me know where to find it, and i'll decide whether to continue reading or not.

Well said. This is what Handloader used to be about 20-30 years ago, but not anymore. I knew it was bad when I saw an article about a product and the advertizement for the product was right next to the article...

I can heartily recommend Precision Shooter and Varmint Hunter magazines, if you're looking for high quality articles, photos, paper, and LOTS of articles in each issue, these magazines are fantastic. The producers of these "get it," but they are a little topic-specific.

[Storydude]

I think all of you are missing the fact that at this year's SHOT, "Internet Media" was allowed in for the first time.

This caused over 3500 "internet bloggers" with enough credibility to fill a shot glass overwhelming the vendors with BS questions, Reverse engineering photographs and theft of ideas....If not outright theft. Check Brownells for the amount of stuff stolen. OR, check out how many Chinese people are there, that cannot even speak the language snapping away with cameras and RULERS.

SHOT used to be an FFL or industry ONLY event. With the changed rules, it's now just a big gun show that you cannot buy anything off of....with the same mentality of the attendees as you'd find in a local gunshow.


There already are many "webbloogers" ******** about "Waaah, XXXX vendor didn;t talk to me and I'm big bad innerweb media guy" Never mind his "blog" is nothing more than 5 videos on U-tube. MAybe if you had a credible source and forum for discussion and not a Gopro and a laptop, you might be taken seriously.