38 Special Cartridges for Rifles

[Dirty30]

I've been loading for my model 94 "trapper" and my loads don't feed for ****. I think the AOL may be insufficient. I have read that guys shooting Marlins have had the same problem. Has anyone found a length they have been successful with? I'm casting 158 gr. SWC.

[para45lda]

My Marlin doesn't "like" SWC boolits but OAL seems to be more important especially when loading in magnum cases. It seems to digest anything in a 38 special case as long as its not too short. As always your mileage will vary.

Wes

[beagle]

My Model 1894 .357 shoots about anything in a .38 Special case. Makes no difference. SWC, RB but especially likes the RFN bullets. It's not picky.

My friends Winchester on the other hand was a bit picky and many times wouldn't feed some of my loads. It's inherrent in the beast I beleive./beagle

[Dirty30]

I have had problems with a second round coming in on top of the link as the previous round is being chambered. It seems like it's not a problem with longer cartridges but I really don't know. Has your friend had any problems like that?

[gundownunder]

Are you talking about a 94 Marlin or 94 Winchester?
Most people seem to feed just about anything through most Marlins but I have heard that a lot of Win 94s in 357 can be a bit cranky.
My Marlin will feed any 357 or 38spl that I have ever tried in it.

[fecmech]

I have had problems with a second round coming in on top of the link as the previous round is being chambered. It seems like it's not a problem with longer cartridges but I really don't know. Has your friend had any problems like that?

This is a common problem in Win 94 .357's. The action was designed for the 30-30 which is a long cartridge with a big head. They modified the action somewhat and then cheaped out with poor fitting soft parts. The gun handles 45 colt and .44 mag ok but .357's can be problematic. I have one and have done a lot of work on it, the only reason I keep it around is it's very accurate. The action is sloppy and rough, my Rossi 92's put it to shame in that dept. Here some links on the misfeed.
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34790
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27469
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7996

Since I welded up my link cartridge OAL is no problem in my 94, it will even handle the 358429 in mag cases crimped in the crimp groove. Still a sloppy clunky action though!

[ReloaderFred]

I can't speak to the Winchesters, since the only ones I have are in .30-30 and .44 Magnum, but for the .357 Magnum Marlins using .38 Special cases, the magic number is 1.480" OAL. Anything shorter will cause hiccups, especially when cycling fast.

Experiment with the OAL and find what your rifle likes. I also avoid SWC bullets in my Marlins, except for my .45 Colt Cowboy, which will feed anything.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Mk42gunner]

My 94 Winchester is the Ranger Compact version. It really prefers a longer length than anything you can put in a .38 case.

It feeds 358429 in magnum cases great; the 358627 seated to crimp in the lower crimp groove will feed okay if the lever is worked briskly.

158 RNFP in .38 cases for plinking will occassionally pop out the top before the bolt goes home.

Robert

[btroj]

My Marlin 1894 will feed anything I have tried in a 38 special case. They dont shoot very well but they will feed. Even a 148 gr wadcutter seated with only 3/16" or so about the case mouth.

[Ed in North Texas]

Can't say I have any experience with boolits in my Marlin .357/.38, but it feeds jacketed 158 gr +P .38s with no problems at all. My .44 is one of those which has no problems with Ideal 431244 either. The current Lyman 429244 should be the clone to that boolit.

[7of7]

I haven't had any problems with mine feeding 38 specials. I have a Lee round nose 158 gr TL boolit.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Two things to specifically look at are the OAL (see above about 1.480" being the magic minimum) and the SWC boolit's shoulder.

Some leverguns will feed the SWCs and some won't. If you have one that doesn't like them, you have two choices - pick a different shaped boolit, or go to work on breaking the corner where the chamber starts. There's a thread over at marlinowners.com that tells how to do that.

[Dirty30]

Fellas I think that was exactly what I was looking for. I'll strip it down tomorrow and see if the welding job on the link is something I can do, if I can't I can have it done. I'll try a few different boolits and see if they work any better. Thanks to everyone for all the good info.

[August]

Never have seen a cowboy action shooter who was successful at getting Semi-Wad Cutter design bullets to run well in a lever action rifle (92, 73, 66, 94 Marlins). So, I'd start with a different bullet before incriminating the rifle.

I use a 158 grain Snakebite Big Lube design bullet. This bullet has many virtues, but for your situation, its advantage is that it yields a .357 magnum OAL in .38 cases. This is due to the fact that it is long for its weight because of the generous lube groove at the back of the bullet. Also, it is a round nose, flat point design with a meplate just large enough to prevent chain firing in a tubular magazine. It is a great bullet and I've used several thousand of them over the past couple of years. I have never had a feeding slow down or problem with this bullet in .38 special cases. It might be the ideal choice for the long action of the '94 Winchester.

[fecmech]

I'm posting this drawing for Dirty thirty as I can't put it in a PM.

[Dirty30]

Thanks!

[bruce drake]

I don't have a Lever Action in 357/38, but I do own a 358 Winchester chambered Mauser that loads a lot smoother with a 158gr RN boolit over the 158gr SWC boolit design as well.

Bruce

[ocelott]

My Marlin 1894c in 357 loves the 180gr in 38 special brass over 10gr 2400.

It my most accurate load.

[Dirty30]

Man I forgot how accurate this little rifle is. I was shooting shotgun hulls over offhand at 25 yds the other day when trying out my repaired cartridge stop. I'll see if I can hunt up some 158 gr. RN boolits to try out before I buy the mold.

[405]

Fellas I think that was exactly what I was looking for. I'll strip it down tomorrow and see if the welding job on the link is something I can do, if I can't I can have it done. I'll try a few different boolits and see if they work any better. Thanks to everyone for all the good info.

After reading all the posts I can't figure the absolute necessity for using 38SPLs instead of 357s unless your chamber is 38SPL for some reason??. The 357 can easily be loaded down to most any 38SPL power level desired. Also can't figure welding and modifying parts on an otherwise functional gun just to get there?? Also, shooting a bunch of 38s in the 357 will build up quite a carbon ring just in front of the case. Then if for some reason you want to chamber a 357... it won't until some serious scrubbing is done. Also, all that freebore throat in front of the 38 case may not help accuracy. Just curious.

[Tom-ADC]

Apples & oranges but I have a 25+ year old 1894 Marlin in 44 mag but it will feed any 44 Spl I've tried but as mentioned above OAL seems to be the maker or breaker.

[fecmech]

Also can't figure welding and modifying parts on an otherwise functional gun just to get there??
He had a problem where the cartridges were coming out of the mag tube under the lifter when the action was cycled. That was the reason for the welding of the cartridge stop. It's a common problem on .357 94 AE's.

[405]

fecmech,
I have no problem understanding the modification so the 38SPL will cycle. The only problem I have understanding is the necessity to use 38SPL in a gun designed to cycle 357.

357 brass is neither scarce nor expensive- last I checked it was about 50 cents more expensive than 38SPL per 100. 357 can be down loaded to modest 38SPL ballistics. 38SPL in 357 chamber will lead to a carbon ring build-up that will have to be dealt with sooner or later.

But hey- already a done deal and not my deal

[Ed in North Texas]

fecmech,
I have no problem understanding the modification so the 38SPL will cycle. The only problem I have understanding is the necessity to use 38SPL in a gun designed to cycle 357.

357 brass is neither scarce nor expensive- last I checked it was about 50 cents more expensive than 38SPL per 100. 357 can be down loaded to modest 38SPL ballistics. 38SPL in 357 chamber will lead to a carbon ring build-up that will have to be dealt with sooner or later.

But hey- already a done deal and not my deal

Why do I shoot .38 Special in my .357 Mag. Marlin? Because I have a pile of factory .38 Special +P and I already have more reloading to do than I have time. So I shoot the factory .38s in the .357 Marlin and reload for the others.

Oh, and my Marlin needed no modification, feeds the .38 JHP just fine.

Ed

[btroj]

I tried 38s for the same reason, I have lots more 38 brass than I 357. In the order of 3000 vs 500. You do the math.

I need to try the 359640 in a special case to see how that works out.

[jblee10]

I wish I had a Win 94 in 357. I'd be trying to convert it to 357 Max.

[Dirty30]

fecmech,
I have no problem understanding the modification so the 38SPL will cycle. The only problem I have understanding is the necessity to use 38SPL in a gun designed to cycle 357.

357 brass is neither scarce nor expensive- last I checked it was about 50 cents more expensive than 38SPL per 100. 357 can be down loaded to modest 38SPL ballistics. 38SPL in 357 chamber will lead to a carbon ring build-up that will have to be dealt with sooner or later.

But hey- already a done deal and not my deal

I load 38's for the same reasons already posted. I have a lifetime supply of 38 special brass, and accuracy is no issue with this rifle. I followed fecmech's advise and reapaired the under-carrier jam accordingly with an evenings worth of effort. SWC ammo in .357 cases doesn't feed any better than in a 38, so I have called upon the knowledge of those who have already sorted this issue out for themselves. I still need to sniff out some 158 gr. round nose boolits to try out, but factory RN's shoot like a dream, so I think my problem will be solved there once seated to a good length. Thanks again to everyone for the sound advice!

[MakeMineA10mm]

fecmech,
I have no problem understanding the modification so the 38SPL will cycle. The only problem I have understanding is the necessity to use 38SPL in a gun designed to cycle 357.

357 brass is neither scarce nor expensive- last I checked it was about 50 cents more expensive than 38SPL per 100. 357 can be down loaded to modest 38SPL ballistics. 38SPL in 357 chamber will lead to a carbon ring build-up that will have to be dealt with sooner or later.

But hey- already a done deal and not my deal

Another possible reason (though not seeming to be the case in the OP's situation) is if you have a boolit with an out-of-case length that is excessive and won't feed when loaded to the crimp groove in the longer brass. It's a common work-around to use shorter brass, if you want to keep loading with a crimp in the crimp groove (which most people do in lever-guns, because of the less-reliable-for-setback crimp over the front drive band that would otherwise been required).

[Dirty30]

So I'm working up a load for the 158 gr. RN in 38 spl. I'm using CCI 500 primers and bullseye. I'm starting with 3 gr. and working my way up. What do you guys like to use?

[Lefthandshooter]

My Marlin 1894 .357mag HATES aluminum cased factory loads in .38sp in every way. It was all I had as I had at the time and I felt like shooting the rifle so I grabbed a box. WRONG!

As for reloading, my son is bugging me to reload only for the 1894 44 mag so he can shoot what he thinks is his lever action rifle. I tell him to just keep thinking that - the little twerp.:mrgreen:

[fecmech]

So I'm working up a load for the 158 gr. RN in 38 spl. I'm using CCI 500 primers and bullseye. I'm starting with 3 gr. and working my way up. What do you guys like to use?

4.2/BE/H&G 158 rn gives excellent accuracy in my 94. Runs right at 1070 fps and is very accurate. In my gun with the Lee 158 TLSWC + 5 grs of Unique is about the same speed and a little more accurate(less than 3 moa @100 yds). Both are max std. presure .38 spl loads which are no problem at all in your rifle.

[9.3X62AL]

I see no issue with using Special-length brass in Magnum-length chambers, other than the carbon ring mentioned by 405. The boolit-length issue may indeed be resolved by resorting to the shorter brass length in some cases.

I decided early-on to do the right thing with the new WinOku Model 92 x 44 Magnum. In my view, that was to order a 250 grain flatnose/round ogive boolit design with gas check from Accurate Molds. Put up in Magnum brass, #429244 fed all right, as did SAECO #446. #429421? Fuggetaboutit, when loaded to use the crimp groove. Single-shot was all right, but the 92 is a repeater, not a Ruger #1.

The 92 won't be used for CAS, I'm not a player there. Just target range and hunting fields for me, as usual. Gotta cast some more boolits for it, come to think of it--filling all those emptied Magnum cases last week drew down the reservoir considerably. Did I mention my loathing of carbon crud-ring clean-outs?

[fecmech]

I must be doing something wrong as I rarely get the "carbon ring"shooting .38's in my .357. When I do, I simply chamber an empty expanded .357 mag or max case and run it in and out a couple times. The flare on the case mouth takes it right out.

[Dirty30]

fecmech I might poach your Unique load and give it a try. I've been meaning to get some to dink with. I like powders that will do a lot with a little.