Dropping powder in a tube question

[oldracer]

I searched around and did not find any exact answers so here is one about the pros and cons of using a drop tube to get the powder in a muzzle loader. At our range I have seen some that use a funnel and tube so the powder goes right to the bottom. Others shoot "the way it was done" and just pour it in. I can see a possible advantage in that no powder will catch in any fouling lining the barrel, the downside is it takes a bit longer. If you just dump it, that is the way it was done 150 years ago and the shooter was aiming at a man sized target so bulls eyes were not a concern.
If you wipe after each shot then the drop tube would not matter of course and I have not decided if I want to do that just yet.

So, what do those with a lot of muzzle loader experience do and why. I have my 45-70 Rolling Block and Sharps humming along so I am looking at new challenges.

[Boz330]

The long range guys use a drop tube and clean as well after each shot. Depends on the level of accuracy you are looking for. For casual shooting I wouldn't worry about it.

Bob

[451 Pete]

:coffee: Oldracer,
Good Question. The drop tube can do several things in loading a muzzle loader. It can provide a bit of compaction to your load ( the same as is done by many shooters when loading black powder in cartridge rifles ). It can keep the powder from hanging up on and in the rifling ( say if the bore is still just a bit damp after wiping out ), and it can give you a more consistant powder charge from shot to shot by allowing the fines in the powder to suspend a bit, but only if the powder is trickled and not just dumped into the drop tube.

At Friendship you will see the drop tube used by almost all of the bullet shooting rifle shooters at the mid and long range events. The large majority of round ball shooters, at closer yardages, don't bother.

Personally, I use a drop tube when loading any paper patched bullet in a muzzle loading rifle as any powder that gets caught up in the rifling could jam up the bullet and possibly damage the patch. A torn patch means a bad or wasted shot. Not something I want in the middle of a good shot string or in a match. I also clean between shots with one damp and one dry but have found just enough moisture in the bore to warrent the use of the drop tube.

Hope this helps ..... Pete

[FL-Flinter]

In agreement with Pete, if you're wanting to keep any powder from sticking to a not-dry bore, the tube will do that but if you're loading a clean dry bore, the barrel will be its own drop tube.

Adding emphasis to this statement no matter if loading through a tube or direct to barrel:

"but only if the powder is trickled and not just dumped into the drop tube."

Mark

[Underclocked]

Aluminum arrow shafts make nice drop tubes. Just figure out how to add a funnel. Tube should be about 2 to 2.5" shorter than your bore. I made one a long time ago and used it a few times. Never saw enough positive change to continue its use.

[oldracer]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The answers were as I expected them to be with no real secrets coming out. I made one from a length of hard copper tube and placed a small plastic funnel at one end and it was a tight fit over the tube using boiling water to soften the funnel a bit. I'll give it a try later next week probably.

[Boerrancher]

I think that with a PRB a drop tube is a wast of time. Any powder that gets hung up in the rifling or fouling will be pushed down with the rest of the powder when you seat the PRB on the charge. I can fully understand the need for a tube with a PP conical, I would not want to take a chance on damaging the PP.

Best wishes,

Joe

[a1albert]

I have never used a drop tube but I do see the point of using them on a range. If this is your hunting rifle then I would find and practice the quickest way to reload it for a follow up shot if needed. I have never had to do a follow up shot on a deer but as soon as I pull the trigger I start reloading my muzzleloader again and yes the boolit will sizzle as you are driving it down the barrel.

Albert

[DODGEM250]

How about drop the powder down the bore and let the patch / sabot push the residuals to the bottom.

[Boerrancher]

How about drop the powder down the bore and let the patch / sabot push the residuals to the bottom.

That works in most cases but one, and that is with the paper patch. You have to have a clean smooth bore so you don't damage the patch.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Bullet Caster]

I never knew what a drop tube was until I read this thread. I've been shooting patched round balls out of my flinter for a long time and I just dump the BP down the barrel and load. I do have to wet patch then dry with another patch before every shot. I tried to load a second successive shot and broke my ramrod. I remembered an old series on British TV called "Sharpe's Rifles" and it was said to spit down the barrel before trying to load the next shot. I guess that was to soften up the fouling left by the previous shot. I found out the hard way with a broken rammer. BC

[451 Pete]

I tried to load a second successive shot and broke my ramrod. I remembered an old series on British TV called "Sharpe's Rifles" and it was said to spit down the barrel before trying to load the next shot. I guess that was to soften up the fouling left by the previous shot. I found out the hard way with a broken rammer. BC

Bullet caster,
If you broke a ram rod on your second shot I would say either your load ( patch and ball or bullet ) is too tight or you may have dry patched it. You are right about wanting to soften the fouling but I would not spit in a bore, either before or after putting the powder in. Before your powder may not go off and after you are fouling up your powder charge and would have no consistency.

Pete

[Underclocked]

Do any of you guys remember "Preacher" from the old CVA forums? Preacher was a fantastic target shooter and offered a lot of good, solid advice to the less experienced folks. He weighed and weight-matched EVERY component used in the loading process, including #11 caps and/or 209 primers. He indexed everything that could be indexed and used the same procedure for each load.

And he took his drop tubes seriously. I paid a lot of attention to Preacher because everything he wrote made sense. He was meticulous, methodical, and often shot 1/4" groups at 100 yards. I've tried to duplicate his style somewhat over the years - his use of the drop tubes is what inspired me to make one of my own.

But there is a balance between the practical and the extreme that I found to be a lot more comfortable place to be. Too many robotic steps tend to make the experience of shooting a muzzleloader more a chore than something to enjoy (at least for me). And I'm not a competitive shooter as he was.

So after a few trips to the shooting bench, the drop tube has sat on my work bench unused for so long I think it might be growing things. ;)

I still wish someone had archived all the posts made by Preacher in those days - they would have been a great resource for new and old alike.

[subsonic]

Preacher sounds like a good fellow to follow.

1/4" is impressive from a CF bench gun. I can't imagine that from a fruntstuffer.

What kind of setup was he shooting? I assume not PRB...

[Underclocked]

Preacher had a number of different muzzleloaders, both traditional and modern - but I couldn't tell you now what any of them were. As I recall, he worked part-time at a sporting goods store so he had access to lots of equipment.

His health was failing him back then and my guess is he is no longer among us.

cvilorio (Carlos) is a current shooter that does a lot of similar things such as Preacher did with some outstanding results. He also happens to work at a gun shop. Carlos does a lot of experimentation with often impressive results. Check out some of his picture albums at http://s951.photobucket.com/albums/ad358/cvilorio/ - the man can shoot. He posts most often at Frontier Muzzleloadin and Modern Muzzleloader.

And I hope you can see these many pages http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powerguild.net/spa/cvilorio/40041894/50

[DODGEM250]

That works in most cases but one, and that is with the paper patch. You have to have a clean smooth bore so you don't damage the patch.

Best wishes,

Joe

My apologies. I'm not of the paper patch group. However, does the paper patch not fit tight enough to push the residuals to the base in a smoothbore ? Teach me, I have not a clue about this one, never experienced a "paper patch" before and the concept simply does not grasp hold in my mind. I'm not above learning. I just have to ask.

[451 Pete]

Dodgem250,
It is kind of the opposite, the paper patch bullet should fit the bore to within about .001 to .0015 of the bore diameter on a muzzle loading rifle. Any fouling left in the barrel between shots can tear the paper and ruin a shot so the bore has to be pretty clean when shooting a paper patch bullet.
Paper patching allows a lead bullet to be driven a bit harder down a barrel without the possibility of causing leading in the barrel as the lead is wrapped in a protective paper jacket.
When the rifle is fired , the soft lead expands or obturates, forcing a soft bullet to have the barrel twist imparted upon it. The rifling also cuts the paper allowing it to fall off of the bullet as the bullet exits the muzzle so that only the bullet is being shot down range.

Hope this helps explain things a bit .... Pete:smile:

[405]

451 Pete has it right from my experience. In a BPCR gun it is the fouling from previous shooting that can hurt paper patch integrity. That's why the swabbing, blow tubing and good lube.... helps keep the fouling soft. Not much different in a ML. I've played a little with patched bullets in MLs. It is not so much the loose fresh powder clingling to the bore walls that causes problems.... it is the hard fouling already there.

As far as paper patch in MLs.... the ultimate is seen in the slug gun game.

[Geraldo]

In my 1:18" twist .45 barrel shooting long conicals I use a drop tube, but not in anything else. I wipe between shots with any of my muzzleloaders.

[Boerrancher]

Dodgem250,

I am not much of a paper patcher myself. Although I do use them from time to time in my 45-70 Sharps so I can push a 350gr RNFP boolit really fast. I use to shoot them to annoy some of my shooting buddies who's 45-70 lever guns would fall a bit short at several hundred yards. It is almost as simple as described. You want your strip of paper to be a bit wider than the bearing surface of your boolit and long enough to make 2 full wraps ending exactly where you started, so there is no seam. I soak my paper in water and wrap the boolit making sure the paper is just above the crimp groove, and extending below the base. once it is wrapped then I fold the bottom over the base of the boolit in a nice uniform way. Then I sit them in a warm place to dry like a window sill in the sun. Once dry I roll them around in JPW and let them dry once more, and then load them up. It is a long slow process but if you want to push lead accurately J-word fast, then paper patching is the most reliable process. Also the type of paper you use depends on how much space you are wanting to take up. In my 45-70 I use a heavier paper because My 350 gr boolits tend to drop at around .456 instead of .459 or .460 which is were they need to be. If you don't need to take up any space then thin tracing paper is what is used. I hope this helps give a better understanding of Paper Patching.

Best wishes,

Joe