The Old Belding & Mull powder measure

[milprileb]

Two months ago I pulled out my Ohaus Duo Measure which I bought in early 70s and never used. I decided to begin loading rifle calibers and wanted to set the measure to throw IMR 4895 so I could load up a large quantity of ammo for my M1 Rifle.

The Duo just throws a wider range of charge weights once set than I can put up with. Costs as much to load lousy ammo with good components as great ammo so I ain't going to live with charges out of tolerances.

Was really miffed. Although I have the RCBS combo digital scale measure, I did not want to sit down and load up 100 cases on it, I felt that a powder measure ought to toss charges at some decent tolerances.

Saw a old B&M powder measure for sale & bought it. What the heck, as a kid I always saw them for sale and they were always well spoken about. I bought the B&M powder measure and yes, its antiquated but you know what... once you set that sucker to toss a charge, it will do so very well and stick powders like IMR 4895 just get thrown accurately.

Don't argue with results... :killingpc, this dinosaur works and when I load up 100 rounds with match components for the M1 Rifle, its going to be the way I do it.

Not going to chase a Culver or Harrels $300 range measure, no more rainbow chasing on powder measures.

Yes, using the B&M is a step back in technology but form vs function.....it is what it is... a powder measure that throws accurately.

[ReloaderFred]

I even polished the brass hopper on mine and it looks like a really classic decoration over my loading bench. It's sort of like one of those miniature steam engines, all shined up. And like those miniature steam engines, it works, too.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Waldog]

I have had a B&M powder measure for at least 35 years. Bought it NEW. It is ALWAYS my go to powder measure. Even though I have a Culver, Lyman 55 and Hornday.

These guys make a B&M Copy: http://www.montanavintagearms.com/reloading.html
It's reasonably priced (For what you get!) and in many ways nicer than the original B&M

[Hardcast416taylor]

Got my B&M measure minus the charge tube in a box marked "reloading junk" for $10 at a garage sale about 15 years back. The box aslo had a C-H swage-a-matic, 4 sets of loading Lyman dies, various bags of brass and partial boxes of jacketed bullets. Between myself and a machinest friend a homemade drop measure tube was made, still using it today.Robert

[KCSO]

I have used a B amd M for years and i have a measure tube in about every die box to match the cast bullet charges for that caliber. Of course I still use the OLD Ideal #1 and the Lyman 55 too.

[bobthenailer]

The B&M is the only rifle powder measure ive ever owned for the past 43 years , i did orgionaly use it for pistol but bought dedicated measures for pistols the first was a bonanza pistol powder measure next was a RCBS lil dandy and now ive gone to the dillon powder measure for my dillon550 & P&W P200

[gnoahhh]

Count me as a faithful B&M user too, for nigh on 40 years now. For pistol powder I made a brass measure based on the old Pacific design, with interchangeable rotors for different charges.

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr174/gnoahhh/get-attachmentaspx.jpg

[Green Frog]

The B&M with a true micrometer drop tube (custom built with a Starrett micrometer head) is my ultimate accuracy measure. I honestly believe that the Harrell would be just as accurate, but I can't justify spending all that money. Besides, I would need both a large and a small rotor Harrell to be able to load the range I need to cover. :(

Yes, I have and use a bunch of other measures including a Culver clone, Ideals # 1, 5, 5 micrometer, 6, and 55, a Li'l Dandy, a Lyman Accu-Measure, a RCBS Duo-Measure and a couple of others, but the B&M is still my "gold standard!" That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Froggie

[milprileb]

I started the thread expecting a lot of ridicule for stepping back in time to use a B&M
measure to solve my frustrations with new measures. It seems I am not alone on this view of newer is not better .. at least in this instance

Green Frog: where does one get custom starrett micormeter heads ?

[scrapcan]

you will not get ridiculed for using the B&M VPM. The only issue I have ever had is the B&M WOBBLE. that is the side to side movement that can occur if only using the built in mount. it is easy to cure though. cut a shallow slot that the PM fits is so it can not twist when the lever is actuated.

I have two one marked Belding and Mull, the other marked Harpster and Williams. As a side note it was the longest manufactured product from B&M. And they just ran out of parts to make more not too many years ago.

[Bret4207]

I love my B+M. One of the members here did a little experiment and found that by changing the spring it was a lot easier to sue and made no discernible difference in accuracy.

[Kevin Rohrer]

Although I own an original B&M, it sets attached to the bench bookshelf, serving more as window dressing than to use.

However, I regularly use my B&M clone, made by Vega Tool (now pretty much out-of-business). Their Schutzen measure improves on the design by eliminating the B&M Wobble. It's on the right. Drop tubes setup for individual loads are to the left.

In front of it is the descendent of the B&M, the Quick-Measure. It is a "B&M" with replaceable, semi-fixed drop tubes. I can charge 100-cartridges in 4-minutes with it.

http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv29/KevinRohrer/Reloading/IMG_0709.jpg

[Green Frog]

I started the thread expecting a lot of ridicule for stepping back in time to use a B&M
measure to solve my frustrations with new measures. It seems I am not alone on this view of newer is not better .. at least in this instance

Green Frog: where does one get custom starrett micormeter heads ?


The key word in your question is "custom." Mine was made for me by a gunsmith friend (now deceased) using a Starrett head (still available from the manufacturer, but also found often on flea-Bay) and a couple of pieces of brass for the body tube and plunger head. If you like, I'll post pix, and any machinist should be able to whip one up for you.

Froggie

[calaloo]

The side slipping of the Belding and Mull powder measure can be eliminated by the application of a product available at the hardware store. This product is a non slip tape that has grit on one side and a peel off backing on the other. A small piece cut to fit the measure will eliminate the problem. Mine still has the origional spring and clamped to my wooden topped bench absolutly does not slip.

[tchepone]

I have two of them. I wouldn't trade them for any other measure. They are absolutely the best with long stick powders.
I occasionally see someone looking for a brass cover. They seem to get lost. Here's a perfect fit item....Dorman Products, Part Number 565-095. It is a brass frost plug for automotive engines. You should be able to get it at your local parts house for a couple bucks, NAPA, Autozone or whatever brand serves your area.

[Pressman]

tchepone, I have to ask, there must be a really interesting story behind that screen name.
I know where the place is but was never in the neighborhood.
Ken

[milprileb]

Yes Indeed, I know the name and coincidentally have a trip planned there
as well.

I did not run recon around there which is evident since I am typing this and most who did work that area never saw the internet.

Tchepone was a sink hole. We may never get the story of what was going on there.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Wow, brings back memories of my childhood. My brother was on a ship that directed Phantoms over that piece of ground. I was a kid back then, but he mentioned it a time or two over the years when he talked about his part in that war. He was never positive about it. After googling it, now I know why.

[tchepone]

Pressman:

Whether it is an interesting story depends on one's point of view. I will not elaborate. I use the handle to honor and remember a good friend who did not return from a flight over the area. Nuf said.

[Pressman]

Thank You.

I lost an Uncle and his wing man, Phantom drivers. They just disapeared over the south china sea on the way home.
Ken

[Wayne Smith]

My B&M is my go to measure. Nothing has bridged yet. Can't say that about any of my other measures, except my little Bair pistol measure.

[robertchambers]

I liked my B&M so much that I took the time to convert 2 project measures into right handed tools. I moved the operating handle to the left so that my right hand would be free to do all the careful operations like not spilling the powder on the way to the funnel. I also increased the powder reservoir by almost 3x.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u105/robertchambers/DSC00035.jpg

[milprileb]

My Goodness ! Kind of leaves me speechless !

That picture shows multiple drop tubes: how did you make them ?

Your reloading bench must be one interesting spot from the looks of it.
The kind of place one would want his ashes interned and put on the shelf amongst
the classic reloading tools !!!

[Green Frog]

I'm even more impressed with that tricked-out Ideal #5 Measure with gold lettering and an eagle on top! I bet there's a story to be shared on that one!

Froggie

[robertchambers]

Froggie & Milpreleb.
The B&M drop tubes were purchased from B&M...the real interesting one is the W D Barchmann in the background. It's the predecessor to the B&M visible measure. Note how much larger the casting is. It also has a steel secondary hopper where the B&M has an aluminum sliding hopper. I have another B&M converted for right hand use that looks like military trench art. the operating handle is made from a 50 cal shell

[scrapcan]

Robert,

I have seen the pictures of your measures many times and every time I see them I am amazed. Very nice equipment.

[Wayne Smith]

My favorite drop tubes are made from 45-70 shells with the primer hole drilled and tapped for a 10/32 rod with a machined plate on top. A nut serves as a tightener. The 10/32 gives me a much more sensitive movement than the very coarse thread on the copy measure I bought. A friend is in the process of making me a couple out of 45-110 shells for larger capacity.

[robertchambers]

Manley,
Thank you ...maybe you haven't seen these measures. 1 B&M, 1 homemade, and 1 standard Hollywood mounted to a 15 pound powder trickler

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u105/robertchambers/DSC00509.jpg

The powder measure below is homemade...I'll eventuly post it in the "Homemade" thread...note this powder measure is next to a 7 1/2 foot Indian muzzleloader.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u105/robertchambers/DSC00511.jpg

The measure below is nothing special but the combination base with intregal trickler makes it interesting.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u105/robertchambers/DSC00507.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u105/robertchambers/DSC00508.jpg

[LUBEDUDE]

Interesting photos.

Thanks!

[milprileb]

It would be interesting to know what Mr. Chambers choice of powder measure would be if he
had to decide on a measure that is currently being offered on the market !

I personally have given up on anything working half right. My B&M just does it right all the time
and as slow, and antiquated as it may be.... it works, no excuses, no deviations, no alibi and always trustworthy once set up to drop a specific rifle powder charge. Like the wheel, shower and mosquito net, the B&M is right on the money !

[robertchambers]

milprileb,
About 10 yrs ago we (cousin & I) got that same idea and put together a little test that went like this. Near any powder measure can attain reasonable repeatability with ball powders and carefull handling, so we chose long extrusion slow burning IMR 4350.
With a fresh 1/8 lb of 4350 in each measure, we weighed 20 charges targeting 45 grains per throw to see which measure fluxuated least. With one person measuring and weighing and one recording the weights, it only takes about 10 minutes per powder measure.
We tested 2 RCBS Uniflows, 1 Ohaus, 1 CH, 5 different Herters, 1 Texan, 2 Lachmiller, 1 Bonanza, 1 Lyman 55, 1 Lyman No5, 1 early Lyman (pre No 5), 2 Lyman No5 micrometer, 2 Redding large dial micrometer, 2 Redding standard micrometer, 1 Redding BR Micrometer, 1 Redding drop tube model, 2 Belding & Mull, 1 Potter,1 Pacific/Bair, 1 Krupp, and 2 Hollywood (1 powder measure & 1 shot measure).
The only measures that that came close (to B&M) in performance was 1 Herters drop tube model and the Bonanza bench rest model (from the fertile mind of Clarence Purdie). The Redding drop tube model was good, but not good enough.
Since then I've acquired about 7 more powder measures and even built a homemade giant uniflow of sorts, but I've not tested any of them in that way.

So the answer to your question is ...other than the B&M visible measure (sort of still available) , the Bonanza BR demonstrates the least variation with the long extruded powders us dinosaurs are still burning.

Note that I have never owned or tested a Lee, Harrel, or Dillon powder measure...AND...I wound up with about 3 lbs of once chopped 4350 that I'm still trying to burn up with 8x57 and 6.5x55 so I'll probably never repeat that experiment again.

Did you see the stag handled B&M? ...I'm taking that one with me when I croak. Bob Chambers

[LUBEDUDE]

Wow, my hat is off to you for your tenacity in your testing. And the great variety of powder measures!