HELP .43 spanish?

[flintrock]

new guy here. I know nothing about the old big bore BP cartridges, so will need help. Found this forum looking for info. on new rifle. Looks like good site. Bought this rifle at gun show. they thought it was 45-70, what I was wanting, It is not, looks to be remington #1 rolling block, export??? receiver; gun built in leige, Belgum. all orignal and complete. Correct markings for leige BP cartridge gun in stock and on barrel. I think it is .43 spanish Nothing to tell me who it was made for. Maybe 80% cond., bore 95% no wear or pitting at all. Gave $620, about right? Is this a good cartridge to play with? I had never heard of it. I kinda like it, but wasn't cal. I was looking for. Take back, sell it , have relined to 45-70 if it can be done? some measurements don't look right for this cal..
rim dia. .668 too large?
base dia. .526 too large?
shoulder dia. .515
neck dia. .465 too large?

bore dia. .439
grove dia. .454/.455
Look about right for .43 spanish? Any info or advice will be appreciated.
Thanks

[elk hunter]

Flintrock,

I see you're new here, welcome aboard.

There were two versions of the 11mm Spanish round, sounds like your rifle MAY be the second version the 11.15 x 58R since it is .439 bore.

There are quite a few 11mm cartridges so only way to know for sure is to do a chamber cast.

There is nothing wrong with that cartridge, brass is available and RCBS makes a .439 diameter mould intended for the 11mm Mauser, but it should work with your rifle.

Good luck with your new rifle.

[adrians]

Elk Hunter isn't the 11mm spanish and the 11 mauser two differant sizes ?
the 43 (11mauser ) is a .446 dia IIRC.
iv'e been wrong more than right though all my life so please set me straight if i jump the gun here.

[Larry Gibson]

Sounds like the 11.5 Spanish Reformado to me. Chamber case length should be 3.10+ to be correct.

Larry Gibson

[405]

Since there are least 10 different cartridges in that general category it'd be tough to say absolutely. But, you are correct, as the numbers you gave look closest to the 43 Spanish. It is a good cartridge and in a good bore there's nothing wrong with the combination. Two things: the brass is expensive but available and finding the right bullet that shoots well may be a hit or miss proposition. If it were mine I'd leave it 43 Spanish. I've got a Rem. contract rolling block in 43 Spanish and after some load tinkering and getting a custom mold made just for it.... it is a fine shooter!

[flintrock]

Did chamber cast. Measurements same off cast as measurements made with measuring tools.
Don't think its reformado, isn't it a straight case?

[Safeshot]

If it is a .43 Spanish, loading dies are available from Lee Precision at low cost and from C&H and RCBS at higher cost. Lyman makes a .439 dia. 370 Gr bullet mold (single cavity - I think). Cases may be made from .348 Winchester Cases - with some (considerable) work. "Buffalo Bullets" has brass and loaded ammo. Graf & Son has Brass. Cases can also be made from other brass. You can even "paper patch" .44 cal (.429 to .431 did. bullets) up to a suitable diameter, if you want to "paper patch". Once you get some cartridge cases and a bullet mold it is just as easy and cost effective to reload the .43 Spanish cartridge and anything else. Black powder is an option. There is loading data for smokeless powder available. It is a "good cartridge" and the rifles can be very accurate. Enjoy the rifle and the caliber they are both a lot of fun to shoot. Safeshot

[405]

flintrock,
Good to see you did the chamber cast. Two measurements adds confidence. One thing I noticed in the measurements you listed. The bore and groove diameters seem very large compared to a standard 43 Spanish bore. If your bore has 5 grooves or odd number of grooves--- they can be very difficult to measure accurately. The normal groove diameter for the 43 Spanish bore should be closer to .440 +/-. The listed standard case lengths for both the 43 Spanish and the Reformado are nearly identical at 2.25- 2.26".

Some sources list the Reformado has being loaded with a .454 bullet. I have three different original, factory Reformado cartridges and no matter how I try to measure the bullet, they do not even come close to .454". That's a mystery to me unless the original reference sources for the cartridge/rifle simply don't agree with the end product as it came out of the factory.???

Pic is of:
Two original, not reloaded 43 Spanish cartridges on the left. Two original, not reloaded Reformado cartridges on the right. (the metal clad or jacketed bullets are original-- the Reformado was one of the first if not the first to use such bullets beginning in the late 1860s-early1870s)

Hope this helps.

[Yellowhouse]

Soft lead bullets only. You'll likely need to load black to get them bumped up enough to fill the grooves. Do some measurements to determine diameter of chamber at neck, neck thickness of brass, and then order your mold. Loading for these old timers takes a little or lot of finagling to achieve top notch performance so do the math and the research. It'll save you money in the long run. Your dimensions are quite similar to that of original 44-77 Sharps/Remington which is not unusual. Just think of a 45-70 on steroids cause thats what they are.

[Marvin S]

Lots of members here shoot them with good results I think the biggest challenge is the sights if you have the Argentine contract rifle. I made an adapter to install a T/C adjustable rear sight on mine and also made my own mold. Once I fire form the cases they are never touched with a sizing die again as the cases are very expensive but should last a long time. Do a search there is all the info you need to get it going well. If you just have to chamber to something else do the 44-77 Sharps/Remington. Basically all it will do is open up the neck area to allow a proper size boolit to chamber.

[TNsailorman]

What I would suggest that you do is to get some cerrosafe from Brownell's and do a chamber cast and include a inche or so of the bore. This measurements will tell you exactly what you have. It is not hard to do and isntructions will come with the cerrosafe. It is a low temperature melting compund that does not shrink much when it cools. AS far as what you might want to do with your rifle to turn it into a 45-70, it is not a simple re-bore and rechamber situation. The rear of the cartridge case of the .43 Spanish is larger than a 45-70, therefore the barrel will have to be set back and rethreaded and then rechambered. I was going to go that route myself when I first got my .43 Remington Rolling Block in the early 60's. I am glad I didn't. The .43 Spanish is almost the same as the .44-77 sharps buffalo cartridge that was so popular back in the buffalo hunting era. It will kill anything the 45-70 will. If I remember correctly, the exact opposite is true for the .43 Reformondo, the case head and shoulder being too large to rechamber without setting the barrel back and would take a custom die set because the bullet would be too small at .454 to work well in a .458 bore. If you insist on a 45-70, re-barreling might be a better option. I have 3 different cartridge case in front of me of the .43 Spanish. One is CCC brand(no longer made) and is much sturdier brass than any other brass I have encountered. The rim on this one is .623". The length of the case is 2.54". The shoulder at the rim .514". The rim thickness is .082". The original case (Remington 1890's Berdan primed for Argentina) I have is as follows: Rim diameter is .625", the length is 2.51", the shoulder at the chamber is .514, the rim thickness is .089". The Australian Bertram case dimensions are: Rim diameter of .627", the length 2.50", the rim thickness .083". These days you will no longer have any problems putting togather loads for a .43 Spanish but in the 60's there was no components or cases to be had. So, we made do with .348 Winchester cases, not a real good fit but they worked. The just didn't last very long because they were smaller in the shoulder area at the chamber and would eventually separate, sometimes on the first firing. Lyman still makes moulds for the .43 Spanish and Bertram still makes cases for it. The Bertram case uses standard large rifle primers. If you bore is truely .454 it is a .43 Reformondo cartridge which is a whole different animal. A .43 Reformondo should not chamber in a .43 Spanish (.43 Reformondo case is 3" long and tapered, .43 Spanish is bottlenecked) but if it did by some quirk, it would probably blow the rifle as the bullet would be way oversized( .45 caliber instead of .43 caliber). I love my .43 Spanish and love to shoot it using that Lyman 378 grain bullet and Trail Boss powder. I don't even bother to size my bullets, just lube them and shoot them as they come from the mould. Have fun with your rifle. She should make you a great little rifle as soon as you find out what it is and I hope it is a .43 Spanish(much simpler finding components and cases). Take care, James

[flintrock]

405
Thanks for info. I slugged barrel. Thats where I got groove dia., got bore dia. with hole gage moved slow through barrel. It is 5 groove barrel.
Can't believe how many cartridges there are this close to each other. Being made in belgum don't think it could be 44-77.
Gun has peep sights with v notch on sliding ladder part.
Any other thoughts?

[405]

flintrock,
Oh ya, very tough sometimes to pin down. I know most of the old BP cartridge guns can have chamber/bore dimensions that vary quite a bit. But, your bore and groove measurements if fairly accurate and the Belgium marking sure don't square with the 43 Spanish. Assuming all your measurements are fairly accurate and sounds like they are.... the correct cartridge should have dimensions anywhere between a couple thous and a few thous smaller.

The other measurement that would be most helpful is the chamber length. Namely from the cartridge base to the neck rim (mouth). Many of these old BP guns don't have a distinct chamber end--- just a tapered transition from end of neck on into the leade. The correct cartridge would have a case length slightly shorter than that. You might be able to estimate that length by examining the chamber casting.

[flintrock]

405
This is part of why I am asking for info.. this chamber gives some odd measurments for .43 spanish, but I can't make it be any thing else so far. I am fairly confident of my measurements, was machinish and tool and die man.
If case lenght is 2.250, then about .350 till start of tapering into lands. If cartridge lenght is 2.820 then tip of projectile is into lands about .250. Will depend on shape of projectile how much jump before contact with lands These sizes came from cartridges of the world.

[itsatdm]

A lot of rolling blocks were made at Liege Belgium, many fulfilling military contracts under license to Remington. The gun makers were actually part of a consortium and included members such as EL Nagant and A Francotte.

They made military rifles for Uruguay, Argentina, Egypt and the Papal states.

The first 2 are in 11.15X 58r caliber. The Uruguayan model has a firing pin indicator in the rolling block that rotates upward, just like the Refermando version. The 43Egyptian model is designated 11.50r and has a case of less than 2 inches. The caliber for the Papal States was 12X45r

43 Reformando is based on the 43 Spanish. I have been told all they did was rechamber the gun and used the original barrels. Mine will chamber a .454 cal bullet but the groove size is only .446 so that is what I shoot (43Mauser). The original bullet was either brass clad. The ones I have seen have a Spanish crest, date manufactured or converted and the name of the Spanish arsenal.

My fire formed cases are based on the 348 Winchester. They don't head space correctly as the original 43 Spanish had a thicker rim. But those are available also at a price.

All guns made at Liege had to be proofed, so surprised that you cannot find something on it to ID it.

There appears to be a lot difference in chamber and barrel specs even coming from the same source in the same caliber.
Maybe shooting soft bullets with black powder did not require that precision.

The odds are you have a 11.15X58r 43 Spanish with one of those variations from the published specs.

[flintrock]

Many thanks to each and every one of you . Still not sure about rifle, but you all helped me some. Gives me more to think about. Gun show next two weekends so can do some looking for stuff. A friend called , heard I had bought this , going to bring me some old cases to show . maybe learn from them.
Thanks again
Richard
Sure will have more questions later

[405]

flintrock,
This one IS a tough nut to crack! and I've just about exhausted my limited ideas :)

I measured a fired case from my 43 Spanish and your chamber specs are very close after adding .001-2 for springback to my fired case. But your bore dimensions are way large for a 43 Spanish.

Doing some simple addition and using a minimal bullet diameter that would do well in your bore (.454 diameter bullet) and adding 2X case wall thickness, you'd need a chamber neck dimension of AT LEAST .472- with something like .477-.480 being more normal for chambering and clean bullet release clearance.

If you look at a Reformado you'll notice that the case has an almost continuous body taper from rim to end of neck (which allows for a bullet with a .454 base band with much thinner shank and nose). While the 43 Spanish has a distinct shoulder and parallel neck (for a bullet with a continuous parallel shank).

It's almost like your gun has a Reformado bore with a 43 Spanish chamber.

In addition to Carts of the World, Croft Barker's book on the 43 Span Rolling Block would be a good source for information as he has dealt with about every variation of these rifles.

[Yellowhouse]

When it comes to bore dimensions on these old guns forget the written specs as they vary wildly....even with American made Sharps and Remingtons. It is not that unusual for a Spanish to have that bore diameter.Each one of these rifles whether Sharps or an old military roller is UNIQUE and requires a certain amount of tinkering. Nothing is written in stone!

Also Remember that these rifles were designed to shoot paper patch bullets that were tapered or undersized and would bump up with blackpowder. Were mine I'd select a soft bullet and brass combination that would let me chamber it and call it a .43 Spanish which is probably what it was intended to be. I've a friend or three that have what should be .43 Spanish rifles but for all practical purposes the specs equal 44-77. Don't worry about that just do some math as to what will work in chambering and start shooting.

PS My original RB sporter 44-77 has a bore of 444 and groove .452. If you try to chamber a .446 bullet using too thick brass it won't go. This is an example of doing the math.

[flintrock]

405
I think if your case measured that close, that this is probably .43 spanish. thanks
I think we are saying same thing differently on bore and groove size. To me bore dia. is drilled size of barrel ( .439 ) Groove dia. is outside dia. of broach used to cut grooves. (.454) I will probably shoot bullets sized .454 or maybe a little less depending on how they shoot and advice of others. What bullet size are you using in your .43?
Thanks
Richard

[Marvin S]

You bore measurements don't fit the 43 Spanish. The largest boolit I can chamber is .440-.441. As stated you might want to do a chamber cast.

[flintrock]

marvin
Thanks for confusing me again. I thought I had figured it out I guess not .
I have done chamber cast, and slugged the barrel I can load for it knowing what I know but I guess I still don't know what it is.
Have you ever slugged your barrel and do you remenber what groove dia. was?

[itsatdm]

Besides the little flip up pc on the rolling block another identifier of a reformando is a through bolt in the fore arm in front of the action. The only model that has both.

[flintrock]

What is a little flip up pc? There is no through bolt on rifle
What is the bore dia. and groove dia. supposed to be on the .43 spanish My books don't list these. ?????

[itsatdm]

The flip up pc appears to be a firing pin retracter. It flips up when the hammer is down. It only appears on the Reformando and the Uruguayan 43 Spanish.
It is inletted into the block.

I do not know the 43 Spanish bore and groove but here is some one else's measurements:

http://www.scorrs.org/articles/spanish43.htm. and some others:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_mm_caliber

Remington made millions of these rifles both at home and under license to other countries. Some were originally made in some unusual rim fire cartridges that later were converted to center fire. Usually they left telltale evidence on the block of the former firing pin location.

Some times the stock, sights, type of extractor (rotary or straight), manner of stock attachment and barrel length gives evidence as to what it is. For instance, if it has a short octagonal portion of the barrel in front of the action, it is an Argentine RB. A picture would help.

Exactly what are the markings on the gun?. It should have the actual manufactures name. Most of these made under license guns, were to fill military contracts and many were given to 1 manufacturer in Liege Belgium. Knowing which guns that manufacturer made, may narrow it down.

I have read that if there were overruns on a military contract, left over guns were sold to the commercial market. The 44-77 is similar to the 43 Spanish

[Marvin S]

marvin
Thanks for confusing me again. I thought I had figured it out I guess not .
I have done chamber cast, and slugged the barrel I can load for it knowing what I know but I guess I still don't know what it is.
Have you ever slugged your barrel and do you remenber what groove dia. was?

I did slug it at first when I bought it a couple years ago. My records show .441 dia but I just slugged the muzzle area again today and got .441 again. The rifle has a perfect bore and chamber that is why I got in a bidding war and may have paid to much for it but that don't matter because I don't want to sell it. The loaded round has been fired a couple time in the rifle and the shorter boolit is from the mold I built and weighs 350gr the other is from the Lyman mold for the 43 Spanish. I use dead soft lead pan lube and a .440 home made push through sizer. 25gr of 5744 for 1325 FPS over a chrony. Mine is a Argentine contract rifle in 43 Spanish and was confirmed with a chamber cast after I bought it.

Lets see some pictures of the rifle and chamber casting, sounds like a 43 Spanish chamber with a Reformando bore.

[405]

405
I think if your case measured that close, that this is probably .43 spanish. thanks
I think we are saying same thing differently on bore and groove size. To me bore dia. is drilled size of barrel ( .439 ) Groove dia. is outside dia. of broach used to cut grooves. (.454) I will probably shoot bullets sized .454 or maybe a little less depending on how they shoot and advice of others. What bullet size are you using in your .43?
Thanks
Richard

You are correct about the definitions of bore and groove diameters. As I stated in a previous post my 43 Spanish has a goove diameter of .440" I shoot a .441" bullet in it. I believe .440-.441 groove is about the average for the 43 Spanish rifles I know of.

The reason I did the math using the minimum usable cast bullet in your rifle is that if you add .454 to 2X neck wall thickness (average .009 wall) you end up with a loaded round with a neck of at least .472 diameter. You said your chamber neck dimension is .465. A minimum safe chamber neck diameter will be at least .004-.005 larger than a loaded round while about .008 clearance is considered normal.

Now if you use a bullet of .439 add 2X neck wall thickness you end up with a loaded round with a neck diameter of .457...... a dimension that fits well in your .465 chamber neck (.008 clearance). As has been suggested a blackpowder load using a soft alloy paper patched bullet with a patched diameter of .439 would chamber fine and might bump up enough to take the rifling (obturating to something approaching .454). That is a common practice with todays BPCR paper patch shooters. Whether or not the PP bullet will bump enough to fill the groove of .454 ???? I dunno. Also, many of those BP paper patch shooters are seating the bullet well out so when the round is chambered the nose and part of the shank are into the bore and supported by the lands.

[Yellowhouse]

It should bump up with 40:1 or softer. I shoot a .434 tapered bullet patched to .442 and it bumps up to ride the 451 groove just fine. This is the way the old dead guys designed it to do. They didn't want tight fit bullets and be hindered by fouling in subsequent shots during battle or on the buffalo range. In essence, what you are seeing is a chamber/bore designed to shoot Paper Patch Bullets and such a discrepancy in chamber size and bore is actually normal. I do agree that a .453 groove is taking it to extremes.

You might take a look at Venturino's book on "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West". Not only does it cover the 43 Spanish and its twin the 44-77, it has a wealth of information on loading for blackpowder cartridge.

PS. I had to have RMC lathe turn brass with neck thickness of .010 before I could shoot a greaser in my Roller 44-77. All the other brass including reformed .348 and necked down Jamison .43 spanish was too thick to allow chambering. That said, they are perfect for PPB.

[flintrock]

You guys are really being nice and helpful, I appreciate it.
I am starting to think this gun has been modified, just don't know to what. Have to work gun show this weekend so might figure something out there. I do not know how to put pictures on line , old and stupid. Will get back to this later
THANKS a lot
Richard

[jeff_jones_86004]

If a 43 spanish chambers and the bore is larger ( hard to tell with 5 grooves) as in .446 you may have a 44-77 rebored by a smithy.

[Buckshot]

.............Being made in Belgium, I wonder if it could possibly be chambered for a Comblain cartridge? The regular Belgium Army didn't use it, but the Army reserve, or auxilary did. But they were also armed with the falling block Comblain rifle. Could be the RB was a substitute standard, or simply rebarreled for some other purpose?

Check Keith Doyan's excellent website at:

http://www.militaryrifles.com/Comblains/ComblainCart.htm

............Buckshot

[flintrock]

Many pictures to follow
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[flintrock]

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[flintrock]

Back from show , learned a little maybe. A friend put pics. on for me. another friend brought book to show, military remington rolling block rifle by george layman. On page 37,38, 39 he talks about belgiurm test rifles. This gun seems to match what he is saying about it. Some of the guys in our military collectors club think this is what it is. I don't know. Nothing is said about over sized bore. Some one brought me some .43 spanish cases from 50s and they fit well, a reformado will not go in chamber. This gun does have insert in face of chamber block. Missed getting that pic. on line, if youlook close at pic of block you can see edge of insert, looks like pic in book,when open. said to be so you can change head space. Added pics. of this insert later. a little farther down on thread.

[itsatdm]

I know I said the Argentine rifles had the octagonal portion on the barrel, but that was on the 1879 models,

I think it may be a 1866/75 Argentine rolling block. I can't make out the cartouche clearly If it is E over LG it means approved in Liege. It has the 2 line Remington patents of an early rifle. See what you think.

http://www.militaryrifles.com/Argentina/66-75Argentine.htm
http://www.militaryrifles.com/Argentina/EduardoPics.htm

[flintrock]

itsatdm
it may be m1866/75. good find, thanks. It is E/LG /STAR IN OVAL. things that are same Top tang info., bottom tang length, date on rear sling swivel.
Things diff. barrel bands held with screw clamps, second style #1rifle rear sights , peep type.,_(insert in front of breach block to change head space),and over size bore,(.454), with chamber sizes a little large.
the last two things are what gets me.
Richard

[itsatdm]

That is my best guess. There is very little information about them. If is that Model, it was made by August Francotte to complete an order of Rollings Blocks made by Remington. About 10,000 made. Some where near the proof mark there should be a letter with either a star or something that looks like a crown. A star indicates pre 1877 production. The crown post.

Those sites I provided leave me with the impression they were not sure on some issues. Since Francotte made Egyptian models as well as others, things like sights and barrel bands may just be what they had available at the time.

I read 1 post which claimed around WW2 the Argentine guns were shipped to Remington where the barrels were "cleaned up" what ever that means. Seems unlikely to me, but who knows.

I have never seen a rolling block with the head space feature. Does it look like small wings on the breech block by any chance? Does it have 10.6 on the barrel somewhere?

Still think it was and still may be a 43 Spanish.

[flintrock]

under the e/lg and the tower proof marks is a letter, R or K with star over it, books say inspector stamp.
yes 10.6 on bottom of barrel.
small cresents or you might say wings on sides of breech block,on this rifle they are ends of 7/16 tall insert that runs across face of block with firing pin hole in the middle of insert. Had good pic of this , but didn't get it on line., If I can figure out how I will put it on.
Yes I think it is .43 spanish tool Just rather loose chamber and .454 barrel.??????????????

[itsatdm]

The letter is the inspectors initial. The star indicates made before 1877.

Supposedly the blocks with the wings were used originally on guns with relined musket barrels from the civil war(support the liner?). The barrels themselves were sold worldwide. Many guns were sent back to Belgium to be re barreled later.

The 10.6 is the code for .43 Spanish.

I really can't envision how this head space thingy would work. A thicker insert would seem to me, either cause the gun not to lock up or the bolt would allow the cartridge to not be fully supported, similar when the block get bent. I have seen pics of the wings with the block against the barrel but never thought that they may be inletted into the block.

The problem with these military guns, was contracts changed or got cancelled. Guns originally intended for one country end up bring scavenged to fill a contract with another. So no guarantee they are an exact match of what they should be. Parts are Parts.

Here is a place to ask the experts: http://www.remingtonsociety.com/forums/ You need to join to ask a question and it might take a while to be approved. You can look at the appropriate forum to see what has been asked before. Lots of rolling block info.

[mtnman31]

This thread makes me want to break out my Rolling Block and do some shooting. It has been a good six months since I put any rounds through the .43 Spanish. My .43 Spanish roller is one of my favorites to shoot, other than the poor sights.

[405]

Oh ya- they are fun to shoot! The sights are a little hard to use for sure- user unfriendly. Without permanently altering or damaging mine-- I added a little height to the front barrleycorn (so it is a blade), removed the rear sight, rigged part of a Williams peep and mounted it so the aperture sits over the flat just in front of the receiver ring.

[Yance]

Sounds like we have the same chamber only mine's an 1878 Cavalry carbine made in Oviedo, Spain. Firing pin retractor on the block, sliding bar extractor, bottleneck .43 Spanish case, but .448 groove dia. I'll have to use 11MM Mauser dies for the larger diameter boolit after I fire form my Jamison cases from Buffalo Arms. At $2.17 each I hope these cases last a LONG time.

[flintrock]

A couple pictures to help identify that were missed previously this is the insert I was talking about. This insert is about .004/.0045 higher than face of block. Yance; Good looking carbine you have. Looks like you are also sporting too large a groove dia.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/727mx/rollingblock007.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/727mx/rollingblock008.jpg

[itsatdm]

Tried to post a pic of my block to show why that inletted bar would not work on my gun, but the Argentine will do. First the block roller is concave vs flat for a US version, indicates that is Belgium made.

The frames are different from yours, the left side has milled out to make room for the ears. More milling on the right, but not to the same extent. That block will not fit into most frames.

I do not think the bar has anything to go with head space. When a shell is chambered it does not stick out past the end of the barrel and using a thicker mortise piece would not change that. Your first pic shows something that looks like a welded up hole to the left of the firing pin. That is common when converting rimfire to center fire. Wonder if that is another way of doing it.

I have seen those ears before in a black and white pic of the gun with hammer down and did not realize what it was. Later a post stating, early on Contract suppliers made some "transition" guns using relined musket barrels.

I do not not why the two go together, except maybe to provide support for the liner to keep it from backing out on recoil. No one has said that except me.

All the markings on the barrel are consistent with Belgium made and the 10.6 is consistent with Francotte's number with 43 Spanish.

This book would probably sort it out and I think I will buy it myself. I did not know how much I did not know:http://www.amazon.com/Collectors-Remington-Rolling-Military-Rifles/dp/1931464456

[mikeym1a]

May I suggest you get a copy of the Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions, by John & Judy Donnelly? It has lots of neat info. Also, you might save a bit of money going to Custom Brass & Bullets. I got some .470 NE cases from them for a lot less than I could from Bertram. Good luck!