Casting indoors

[David LaPell]

I was wondering if anyone casts indoors at all. Not my preferable set up, but we have snow outside and its tough to drag out the pot and extension cords etc. I was wondering about setting it up in my basement which is large and with some large windows could get some ventilation. I would use a fan too to help blow it out the window. I only use a little Lee pot and cast maybe 100-200 bullets at once so it would not be too difficult I would think. Anyone else work indoors when the weather goes south?

[RKJ]

I cast in my garage/basement and I'll get some smell in the house after fluxing but if I use a fan and open the door (a little or a lot depending on the weather) it goes outside. It's still pretty cold in there but much better than outside. If you ventilate well you should be fine.

[462]

I've always cast in the two-car garage, most times with the door closed.

[No_1]

I would purchase a powered stove vent and mount it over your pot with the exhaust vented outside. Should be pretty easy to do if you are near a window.

[fishnbob]

I cast in my 2 bay boat house along the back wall. In cold weather, I open two windows about 2" and turn on a fan. In summer, I open both garage doors and several windows and turn on the oscillating fan. I feel like I should put a power vent right over the pot area and vent it thru the ceiling but I just haven't done it. I do cast more boolits & crappie jigheads in the winter than in the summer so I should vent it. Plus, I have a propane furnace running in cold weather that picks up any smoke from fluxing and circulates it all over the office/reloading part which is partitioned off from the boat storage area. Sometimes I get a headache. Ya think?

[shooting on a shoestring]

I don't cast outside. I like a roof over my melt so I don't get any surprises.

I cast in my garage/shop. Door open in summer, closed in winter. Smelting happens once or twice a year and is outside work. Once my lead is in muffin ingots, inside is fine. My heat source is a gasoline (not coleman fuel) coleman stove. My only concern is carbon monoxide from the stove. Haven't had any issues, I just don't go to sleep with the stove running.

Every monkey has his own swing.

[Catshooter]

Probably half of my casting over the years has been indoors. I like to have some sort of ventalation going but I don't go crazy about it. There's a thread here about Lead Levels with a ton of responses. I read all of them. And I can see that I would really have to ingest lead a whole lot more than I do know to even begin to have a problem.

Lead hazards, just like asbestos have been blown way out of proportion by various vested intrests over the years.

I've only smelted indoors with a very good ventilation system. Melting wheel weights just puts out too much stink.


Cat

[sirgknight]

I do all of my smelting out in the open on the left side of my reloading building. You can see my white propane tank and burner sitting next to each other - the large tank fuels my gas heater inside the building. All of my casting is done inside my reloading building. Inclement weather does not affect casting. I have more than adequate ventilation inside the building so fumes are never a problem. I apologize for the poor photography on the inside of the building. The pic is looking in from the front door. There are windows over the left and right benches. There's a side door at the back left of the room. The "shooting" table, where the rifle is sitting doubles as my casting table. The double-window doors swing open behind the shooting table which opens up to an out-door 100 yard firing range with three berms (25, 50 and 100 yards). Nothing very fancy, but very adequate for me.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/sirgknight/DSCI0044.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/sirgknight/DSCI0048.jpg

[Vinne]

Very nice rig, sirgknight. I'm a little jeaeous. All I have is a conner of a bedroom for reloading and a 4' area outside for casting. I do have a conner of my shed for my shot making. I have been making shot indoors for 20 years and have not had any ill effects. I open a window with a fan blowing outside on one side and a window open half way on the other side. In this way the fresh air crosses the pot and out the other side taking the fumes with it. I only cast or make my shot around this time of the year because summers get up into the high 90s and last for 6 to 7 months.

Hopes that helps, David.

[drklynoon]

I cast indoors in my spare room. I do not smelt indoors. The fluxing does stink up the room however. Lay down a mat so that sprues don't melt carpet and get after it. I use a fan as well.

[Reload3006]

my basement has a walk out door. i set up in the door way open the door light a fire in my wood burner and go to town.

[Bret4207]

I do all my casting inside, always have. Currently I'm in the old milkroom in my barn, not the tightest building as far as drafts, but plenty tight to keep the fluxing smoke around for a little while. Lead exposure from the melt should not be a concern at casting temps. I understand you have to get up over 1K F to get lead vapors. A simple window fan or vent fan would get the fluxing smoke out.

[Sasquatch-1]

I place a fan in the window right above where I cast and a small electronics fan right behind my melting pot to suck the fumes away from me. I use to smelt and cast on the kitchen stiove until I placed a piece of leads in the pot that had water trpped in it somehow. The resulting steam explosion sent lead flying. I small piece hit just milimeters below my eye and a batch the size of a dinner plate was on the Fridge right behind me. Learned a valueble lesson that day. :groner:

[cbrick]

I've never cast a single bullet outdoors and never smelted indoors. I have/use good ventilation, a ceiling vent fan directly over the pot and an open vent behind me in the rear of the shop. I get no smoke or odors in the shop from fluxing but smelting is another matter, there is far more and far nastier smoke from smelting, outside and up wind only.

Rick

[bobthenailer]

I do my smelting outdoors only & 99% of my bullet casting indoors in the basement in the month of Febuary , when there is nothing else to do but cast , I usually make & lube & size at least 10,000 in Feb , my record for one Feb was 33,000.
i always have my blood checked for PB levles when i get a blood test for some other reason and im allways at normal.and have been making bullets indoors almost exclusivley for 40 years .
I have a squirell cage blower fan thats in a aluminum housing mounted to a piece of plywood that fits my window opening . the aluminum housing has a round inlet that ive attached a flexable exhaust pipe to with a round hood made by heater/ac installer friend to cover my work area about 25 inches in diameter. I also use only previously smelted ingots & saw dust for a flux indoors . stay away from the smoker fluxes indoors.
MY wife has a nose like a blood hound and she never complaines about any smells when im casting.

[Johnk454]

David,

I process WWs outside due to the associated smoke and stink. However, all of my casting is done inside my shop so I can take full advantage of the AC during the summer months in SE AL.

I've posted this pic before, but here it is again:

http://home.comcast.net/~johnk454/pics/castingbench1.jpg

It's just a salvaged kitchen stove vent hood that vents straight out the wall. Lots of air flow and a light as well. For me, this eliminates the smoke and fumes from fluxing which always seemed to irritate my respiratory system after long casting sessions.

You would likely be fine with a good natural cross breeze from the windows. If no natural airflow, a fan in the window as you mentioned would suffice.

[Mk42gunner]

I smelt outside on the gravel driveway, and cast inside. I live in an old drafty farmhouse so I don't worry about makeup air, but do open the door to vent any fluxing fumes outside.

Bret's old milkroom is probably tighter than my house.

Robert

[cbrick]

Bret's old milkroom is probably tighter than my house. Robert

Wow, good thing your not a Canadian. [smilie=l:

Rick

[Dale53]

I have a dedicated casting station in my small utility barn. I have electric heat for the winter and a window a/c for the summer. I have a furnace blower in a built in vent in the ceiling above my casting area. Ventilation is not a problem...

I wanted to be able to cast whenever the spirit moves. I do.

My smelting is done in my driveway (I lay a couple of sheets of scrap plywood on the concrete to minimize lead splash). I generally smelt a couple of hundred lbs or more at a time. My maximum effort in a day has been 1000 lbs (with a helper).

Dale53

[Mk42gunner]

Wow, good thing your not a Canadian. [smilie=l:

Rick

Yeah, every winter it is a fight to get the cracks sealed up. I found that blown in insulation will stop the drafts for about a year, then they steadily get worse as the insulation settles.

I'd tear this house down and build me a new smaller one if the county wouldn't bend me over on taxes....

Robert

[Bret4207]

Have you considered taking the siding off and wrapping the house? We're going to do that one day.

[StratsMan]

Like most others here, I smelt WW outside but I prefer to cast outdoors if the weather permits. During the winter (like now: 19*F here) I use a portable "casting room"... Three walls, 18 inches tall and about 1 square foot. Just big enough to attach a bathroom exhaust fan to the top. I cast in the basement and commandeer the dryer exhaust hole to hook up my exhaust fan, then put my Lee pot under the exhaust fan. Turn everything on and cast away...

If I flux, then some of the wax smell still escapes and family complains. Don't know how many times I've told them that's the smell of wax, not lead... I think they don't believe me...

When finished casting, I just move it back into it's storage spot and hook the dryer back to the exhaust hole...

[cajun shooter]

I have read all the postings and have seen a few that bring a worry to me. Some of you only speak of when you flux as being a problem but just the handling of lead can be of some concern.
I do as many others and that is smelt outdoors only. I can't even think that someone would attempt this step indoors.
I have casted since 1970 and have always been inside for that step of bullet making. I do however have a few things that I feel are almost mandatory to cast indoors.
The first is a fan that has enough size not a 8 inch night stand type to move the air in the room. I have a 30 inch floor shop type fan that does the job in my 12x24 outdoor building. In combination with this fan I purchased a attic exhaust fan from Lowe's that is intended to be mounted in the gable ends of a house. They have a thermostat that is in the package. The entire fan kit is only about $55 including the outside grill that covers the fan with a louver look. I cut a hole in the side wall of my shop that is directly above my casting bench. You may manually move the thermostat by a SCREW ADJUSTMENT.
This set up is cheap and easy to maintain. It will even help with the temperature control with your building if you have hot weather. The motor went out in mine and was only $15 to replace.
This is a very small amount of money to keep you safe and healthy. Later David

[Mk42gunner]

Have you considered taking the siding off and wrapping the house? We're going to do that one day.

I have thought about putting vinyl siding and the underlaying plastic insulation on it, but I like the idea of taking the asbestos siding off and wrapping the house in tyvek first. The old asbestos shingles would break when nail was driven into them anyway.

The major problem is the hoiuse is just not laid out well and the floors are not anywhere close to level. I could go on and on but you guys have all seen old houses that need to be torn down.

That plus the fact that for the last two and a half years my back and hips let me work for about one afternoon out of three.

Robert

[CollinLeon]

I cast in my 2-car garage with the garage door open. It's kind of like casting outside, but you don't have to worry about rain.

[warf73]

I've always cast in the one car garage, most times with the door closed. I smelt outside on the patio as that does get smelly fast.

[M1A4ME]

Its been a long time since I did any casting inside. A couple of times in college we set up either in my room or my buddy's room and cast a bunch of .45 acp bullets. We'd set up on a table in front of the window, set a window/box fan in the window and let it suck the air out of the room while we sat on the other side of the table so the fumes were drawn away from us.

You know, as I remember it there were several girls that were interested in what we were doing both times. I was married then, my buddies weren't. I just concentrated on casting and sizing while they got distracted (just slightly of course.)

[Inkman]

I did some casting last nite in the garage. Cracked the main door up about 6 inches and opened the side door to the backyard. First time in the garage and it is sooooo cold here in Kalif right now, that i need to put a heater out there blasting me on high.

Anyhoo.....it sure beats dragging everything out into the backyard and back again when i'm done. Gonna do some more this week and get my boolits stocked back up. Plus we have about a weeks worth of rain due in tomorrow and it will sure be nice to know i can keep casting when it's wet outside.

Al

[Tom W.]

I have a room in my home dedicated to my reloading and casting. It would have been a bedroom, but I took it over, as at the time there was just my late wife and myself. I don't smelt inside, but my casting is done with the door closed and the window open, with a 20" box fan stuck into the window blowing the fumes outside.

I have yet to see how my girlfriend is going to respond to my casting...

[burntpowder]

I and wife are full time rv'ers. Where we spend our winters to be close to family is wet, cold and windy. We cast using the top of the rv stove with vent fan and a window fan never had a problem. We use old cookie sheets to protect where needed. We do all our ingot making and fluxing first time out side,Fluxing the pot inside while casting creates some smoke, fans seem to take care of this and a little lysol aerosol takes care of the smell after we stop casting.

[mstarling]

Did some casting indoors many years ago. Really didn't think it was a good idea at the time.

Had the area under a large deck converted into a forge and work area. We suspended an aluminum roof under the deck with an angle to drain to the outside. Poured a reinforced concrete floor with a large separated block mount for a power hammer.

One end of the area has a propane fired three burner gas stove that I use for smelting in a large cast iron skillet.

Toward the inside center of the area I have a steel topped table built on a 30 gallon barrel. Is where I do my casting. Has the advantage of very open air movement and protection from the snow and rain. Had the disadvantage of being exposed to the outside temperature.

As a result, I tend to cast in the spring and fall ... making the thousands of slugs I practice and hunt with in between. Sometimes I miscalculate or get a new mold and just have to suffer the outside air temps.

Can't win them all.

(The rest of the forge area has a forge, anvil, hydraulic press, and 50 # Little Giant power hammer as well as a long bench with a brick top and a couple of vises.)

[Bret4207]

(The rest of the forge area has a forge, anvil, hydraulic press, and 50 # Little Giant power hammer as well as a long bench with a brick top and a couple of vises.)

Sounds like a place a guy could spend many happy hours in![smilie=w:

[Sasquatch-1]

Cajun Shooter Wrote:

"I have a 30 inch floor shop type fan that does the job in my 12x24 outdoor building. In combination with this fan I purchased a attic exhaust fan from Lowe's that is intended to be mounted in the gable ends of a house. They have a thermostat that is in the package. "

Cajun
I notice you use the 30" fan to circulate air in your shop. Have you ever considered do a lead test on the surfaces? I woud think that the fan would push the lead particles suspended in the fumes around the room. I know you said you have an attic fan mounted in the window, but I wouldn't think that the small 18 " attic fan would keep up with the big 30" floor fan.

[Swampman]

Lead hazards, just like asbestos have been blown way out of proportion by various vested intrests over the years.


I agree completely......

[LAH]

Been casting indoors since '73, so far so good.

[mold maker]

The major lead problem involved is in the dusty dross. Being careful not to allow this to get airborne is the secret. A fan that draws all of this outside, is mostly sufficient. A fan that just spreads it around you is a real problem. Where ever it settles indoors is a hazard you have created, for yourself and those around you.
The smoke from flux is mostly just a smelly problem. Although it can contain some of the afore mentioned dust. As long as you get the smelly flux smoke exhausted to the outdoors, the dust should go with it.

[snuffy]

I too have been casting indoors since '72. The first 15 years in a drafty basement, no ventilation

Since then, I've been it the same spare bedroom as the rest of my loading gear. Again, no ventilation. The last 3 years, I've been getting tested for my lead levels, the HIGHEST was 7.0. That with shooting at an indoor range in wintertime.

A lot of hype from the govmint is just junk science. Studies that come to a forgone conclusion by cherry picking studies that agree with your agenda, and ignoring studies that say the opposite. Same goes with the so-called toxicity of lead.

Lead is NOT absorbed through your skin. It must be ingested.
Lead does not fumes below 1200 degrees. So the smoke you see from fluxing is just that, SMOKE not lead fumes.
Fired primers are much more of a problem, the lead styphonate is easily absorbed when the dust from fired primers is inhaled.

I'm sure the surfaces of my loading/casting room are contaminated with lead. If I had any young kids around or a pregnant female, I'd be real worried. I live alone, no one to rag on me, tell me what to do. I just wash my hands real good when I leave that room. Works for me.

[CollinLeon]

I'm sure the surfaces of my loading/casting room are contaminated with lead. If I had any young kids around or a pregnant female, I'd be real worried. I live alone, no one to rag on me, tell me what to do. I just wash my hands real good when I leave that room. Works for me.

That could cause a problem if you ever decide to sell the house and the potential buyer has a lead test done on the house.

[Mooseman]

That could cause a problem if you ever decide to sell the house and the potential buyer has a lead test done on the house.

Only if you paint it with Lead based paint from years ago....

[CollinLeon]

Only if you paint it with Lead based paint from years ago....

He said that he was sure that the surfaces were contaminated with lead. I suspect that a lead test would turn up positive if that really is the case and as such it really doesn't matter whether the lead is IN the paint or ON it.

I could be wrong though... I've never bought a house old enough that it would have likely had lead based paint, so I have never had a pre-purchase check of a house that I was buying.

I remember back in the day, we used to have lead BBs for our BB guns and we would hold them in our mouth prior to reloading. Didn't seem to affect us all that much.

[Mooseman]

And we had birdshot in our quail and dove too. We crimped sinkers with our teeth.
I have NEVER seen lead dust from casting processed ingots in all my 38 years of Boolit making and sinker casting. I cast on my kitchen stove top in winter here as it is usually below 0. I run the exhaust fan for flux smoke and I never even get the taste of lead in my mouth.
I see no signs of "Lead dust" when I clean up and i find an occasional bit or nugget that jumped out of my pan.Thats all. I cook my grub on that stove. Im not grinding lead to make dust particles and flux burning isnt a high enough temp to vaporize lead into airborne clouds.
Lead compounds and other heavy metals , like used in automotive paints or styphnates in primers can cause problems but I suggest you change your diet , and only spray paints with a respirator.Only children who ate lead paint chips and a lot of them seem to be the few documented cases on record.
I would be more concerned about holding Cadmium plated screws in my mouth or welding Galvanized metal , or mercury fillings in my teeth. Far worse imho...and toxic.
High speed lead particles flying at me scare me the most as far as lead poisoning...

[Sasquatch-1]

And we had birdshot in our quail and dove too. We crimped sinkers with our teeth.
I have NEVER seen lead dust from casting processed ingots in all my 38 years of Boolit making and sinker casting. I cast on my kitchen stove top in winter here as it is usually below 0. I run the exhaust fan for flux smoke and I never even get the taste of lead in my mouth.
I see no signs of "Lead dust" when I clean up and i find an occasional bit or nugget that jumped out of my pan.Thats all. I cook my grub on that stove. Im not grinding lead to make dust particles and flux burning isnt a high enough temp to vaporize lead into airborne clouds.
Lead compounds and other heavy metals , like used in automotive paints or styphnates in primers can cause problems but I suggest you change your diet , and only spray paints with a respirator.Only children who ate lead paint chips and a lot of them seem to be the few documented cases on record.
I would be more concerned about holding Cadmium plated screws in my mouth or welding Galvanized metal , or mercury fillings in my teeth. Far worse imho...and toxic.
High speed lead particles flying at me scare me the most as far as lead poisoning...


Maybe this is why we are all so warped and depraved (sp) that we can't understand that guns are bad and kill people and it is not the poor individual who had a rough childhood that is the propblem. See lead does affect your brain. :-P

[MGySgt]

I have never cast outside and it is getting close to 40 years I have been playing with the silver stream - I have a 10X12 shed with a wood floor that is designated as my casting shed. I have a range hood over the casting bench that gets 99% of the smoke out of the shed.

All my smelting into ignots is done outside.

[Reload3006]

Lead in its solid form or liquid form is not Toxic unless ingested.(ate). But old lead that has been laying around and has oxidized is hazardous. and could be a problem on a lead test. The white powdery substance that forms on our old lead. Thats the dangerous stuff. so boys and girls dont breathe the white powder on lead and dont eat it and you have little worry about lead poisoning.

[snuffy]

That could cause a problem if you ever decide to sell the house and the potential buyer has a lead test done on the house.

Oooooh, I'm so worried!:killingpc:bootgive: I'm most likely going to die in this place, at least that's the plan. No, I'm not thinking of ending it all, just saying, I'm old, retired, have cancer and my "home" is one of those location-optional housing, IE, mobile home. Built in '68, it's at the end of it's usefulness. And it's entirely real wood paneling on all the walls, no lead paint.

I'm sure a lead test on the flat surfaces in my man-cave would show lead present. If I were OCD, I'd spend more time cleaning and organizing, but I'm the exact opposite. Maybe if I were, I could actually find what I know is there, it's just buried![smilie=b:

If those contaminated surfaces were a problem, my lead/blood counts would be higher. That just goes to prove that the hype put out by the EPA is just that, HYPE! They have to justify their existence or loose their power. Also, if they can get rid of lead for boolits/J-words, they can back-door-control guns.

Look at the junk science they used to ban lead in bullets in commifornia. Supposedly the lead bullets were ALWAYS in the gut pile from game animals shot while hunting and predator control. Buzzards, oops CONDORS, eat the gut pile, then immediately die from lead poisoning. Everybody on this forum knows that 90% of the bullets pass-through game to be lost in the landscape.The other 10% come to rest in the body of the deer. I never found a bullet in the guts of a whitetail deer here in WI.

When I cast, there's a certain smell present. Kind of metallic? When I'm done and shut down, after a couple of hours I make a visit to the bathroom,(next room forward), I smell that still in the air. It smells like money!!:lol::D:-D;-)

[jcwit]

Oooooh, I'm so worried! I'm most likely going to die in this place, at least that's the plan. No, I'm not thinking of ending it all, just saying, I'm old, retired, have cancer and my "home" is one of those location-optional housing, IE, mobile home. Built in '68, it's at the end of it's usefulness. And it's entirely real wood paneling on all the walls, no lead paint.

I'm sure a lead test on the flat surfaces in my man-cave would show lead present. If I were OCD, I'd spend more time cleaning and organizing, but I'm the exact opposite. Maybe if I were, I could actually find what I know is there, it's just buried!

If those contaminated surfaces were a problem, my lead/blood counts would be higher. That just goes to prove that the hype put out by the EPA is just that, HYPE! They have to justify their existence or loose their power. Also, if they can get rid of lead for boolits/J-words, they can back-door-control guns.

Look at the junk science they used to ban lead in bullets in commifornia. Supposedly the lead bullets were ALWAYS in the gut pile from game animals shot while hunting and predator control. Buzzards, oops CONDORS, eat the gut pile, then immediately die from lead poisoning. Everybody on this forum knows that 90% of the bullets pass-through game to be lost in the landscape.The other 10% come to rest in the body of the deer. I never found a bullet in the guts of a whitetail deer here in WI.

When I cast, there's a certain smell present. Kind of metallic? When I'm done and shut down, after a couple of hours I make a visit to the bathroom,(next room forward), I smell that still in the air. It smells like money!!


I'm just about like you snuffy, I'm old, have leukemia thats in remission, plan to die in this house.

My big difference is its not a mobil home, but its nothing fancy either, its the old farmhouse my mother was raised in back in the 1910's.

I'm not to worried about the lead I've spilled as the old house is covered with ASBESTOS shingles under the vinyl siding.

Ya I'm living on the edge.

[Bret4207]

Don't worry about those fiber-cement shingles either. They aren't going to bother you unless you take them off and start smashing them while snort the clouds of dust.

Fearmongering! The Greatest American Sport!

[snuffy]

Lead bullet casting happens around 700K. The vapor pressure of Pb at that temperature is somewhere around 0.000001 mm Hg. To give you an idea of just how low that is, normal atmospheric pressure is 760 mm Hg.

http://www.powerstream.com/vapor-pressure.htm if you want to verify my numbers. I won't claim you can't poison yourself through accidental ingestion, and powder of the oxide can be an issue, but you aren't going to breathe enough Pb vapor to do it. It's just too heavy an atom.


Plus, think about all the anecdotal evidence to the contrary. Back in the days of molten lead type lithographers spent hours in rooms full of vats of molten Linotype and we don't see reams of stories of typesetters keeling over dead at a young age.


Quote:
I could never figure out how something as heavy as lead could vaporize, make its way into my nostrils, and then kill me.Quote
It can...but you have to heat your pot up to around 5000 F before it becomes a serious issue. I'm pretty sure the dial on my Lee melter doesn't go that high!

These two quotes were taken from a discussion over at THR. Made by a poster with the handle "elkins45"

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=637203

Finally somebody who can put in real numbers, something I have always said, lead vapors are heavy and hardly present @ casting temps.

[cbrick]

Finally somebody who can put in real numbers, something I have always said, lead vapors are heavy and hardly present @ casting temps.

Several of us have been saying that on this forum for sometime. The only thing in this thread that's incorrect is 5,000 degree's. Lead can start to emit lead vapors at around 1,000 degrees, well below it's boiling point (3180F) but still well above any reasonable casting temps.

Rick

[snuffy]

Rick;
The point that elkins made is that even at 700 degrees, SOME lead vapor is generated. But because it's a heavy atom, AND it's such a small amount, it means nothing as far as poisoning us.

Someone always points out that any molten metal produces fumes/vapor. At least now we have a number to prove how little is actually produced.

[a.squibload]

I have MSS (Mad Scientist Syndrome), I cast and smelt in the garage
so nobody can see what I'm doing!
I put a vent in the gable, open the big door about 8",
open the "people door" to the backyard, plenty of air.
Have a fan to add to that gable vent, someday.
Nothing to put away, just turn off the propane valve.

[CollinLeon]

I have MSS (Mad Scientist Syndrome), I cast and smelt in the garage
so nobody can see what I'm doing!
I put a vent in the gable, open the big door about 8",
open the "people door" to the backyard, plenty of air.
Have a fan to add to that gable vent, someday.
Nothing to put away, just turn off the propane valve.

I take it that you don't use used motor oil for fluxing when you are smelting...

I've had some pretty good flare ups with various fluxes that I've used, so I prefer to smelt well away from any building or trees and with a charged water hose handy (not to spray in the smelting pot, of course). I'm usually about 20-30 ft away from any building or vegetation (other than the lawn itself).

[MGySgt]

Question:

When you have a flare up due to fluxing with wax, used motor oil, olive oil, etc...

What do you think the surface temp of the molten lead is?????

Use an exhaust fan - Always!

[CollinLeon]

Question:

When you have a flare up due to fluxing with wax, used motor oil, olive oil, etc...

What do you think the surface temp of the molten lead is?????

Use an exhaust fan - Always!

That would be "flash point" of the various materials. For motor oil, it's 420-485F. Paraffin wax would be about 390-480F, dependent upon the additives in the wax. Olive oil is 437F.

Lead has a melting point of 621F, so it's well above the flash points of the materials in question. As for what the surface temperature of the molten lead, I would have to guess that it was probably pretty close to the melting point, maybe a bit less if you factor in some insulating effect due to the dross. If you have more info on this, I would like to hear it.

[CollinLeon]

I remember many decades ago in my college chemistry lab courses where we had a device for doing certain experiments with chemicals that produced gases that could be rather unhealthy. It was called a "fume hood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fume_hood)".

http://grice.cofc.edu/resources/safety/safety_images/fumehood.jpg

It seems like it would not be that difficult to create something similar to this for casting indoors for those of you who live in cold areas that are not conducive to just leaving your garage door open. This would work a lot better than just a fan blowing out a window. The front sash (window) would also mean that you could get away without needing eye protection. I would think that a 4 ft wide, 4 ft tall, by 2 ft deep enclosure would be a large enough work area. It would probably work best with bottom pour molds unless you designed it with a bottom sash that could be raised a few inches. You want the opening to be as small as possible so that you have the sufficient air velocity going through it to ensure that any fumes are not going to be exiting the front of the enclosure.

[Longwood]

I used to cast indoors all of the time.

Uhhh! Uhhhh!

Oh yeah.

I used to cast indoors all of the time. Uhhh Uhhh.

[a.squibload]

I used to cast indoors all of the time.

Uhhh! Uhhhh!

The music isn't coming through.


If you make a fume hood be sure it's height is
appropriate for yours. A young engineer 6'3"
in our IC production area had the "sash" up
while he heated a beaker of acid (why? Who knows.)
When it started boiling he couldn't get the sash down
in time, fumes poured out, alarms went off, we got
an extra coffee break.

[CollinLeon]

I used to cast indoors all of the time.

Uhhh! Uhhhh!

Oh yeah.

I used to cast indoors all of the time. Uhhh Uhhh.

The reason that I suggested the fume hood is not because I think that the fumes from casting are extremely hazardous, but rather as a possible way of exhausting gases that you might not want to be breathing just from a smell standpoint. I use a cedar stick for stirring my melting pot and it smokes a bit. That's not something that I would want to be smoking up my house. Even in my garage, it could get irritating after awhile. I live in a warm enough climate that even in the dead of "winter", I can leave my garage door all the way open and cast on a temporary table that I set up across a pair of sawhorses. I don't think that it would cost that much to create a fume hood. For about $30 you can get either a bathroom vent or a bilge blower. The bilge blower might be a better choice, but you will need a DC power supply since they tend to be 12VDC. Add a lighting fixture inside the enclosure so that you would have very good work lighting. Maybe 2 sheets of plywood, some construction adhesive and some screws or nails to hold it together. Maybe a reclaimed window for the front sash? Maybe a day's worth of labor to put it all together (maybe less if you don't drink beer) and you'll have something that even your wife won't complain about when you are casting inside the house.

[midnight]

I'll post a pic of my fume hood. It is open in the front. I use a squirrel cage fan to exhaust it. It's about 4 ft wide, 2 ft deep. The top slopes down so it is 23in high in the back & 16 high in the front. Smoke from sawdist flux does not come into the room, but DCrockett sent me some flux that realllllly smokes and some of that does get in the room. For normal casting you just need some negative pressurein the hood and you are fine. I put an aluminum flap door right over the furnace for ease of fluxing and adding lead. I can't seem to find the pictures. I'll try to edit them in when I find them.

Bob

[CollinLeon]

I'll post a pic of my fume hood. It is open in the front. I use a squirrel cage fan to exhaust it. It's about 4 ft wide, 2 ft deep. The top slopes down so it is 23in high in the back & 16 high in the front. Smoke from sawdist flux does not come into the room, but DCrockett sent me some flux that realllllly smokes and some of that does get in the room. For normal casting you just need some negative pressurein the hood and you are fine. I put an aluminum flap door right over the furnace for ease of fluxing and adding lead. I can't seem to find the pictures. I'll try to edit them in when I find them.

Bob

That's the general idea, but if you decrease the opening size with a sliding glass sash, you will get more air velocity which would work even better. A properly designed fume hood will provide a smooth air flow through the opening (i.e. without turbulence). The cu-ft per min rating on the exhaust fan when used with a fume hood can be less than what would be necessary if you were just putting you noxious fume producing source near a window with a fan in it. With less air being exhausted to the outside, that means less heated or air-conditioned air that your house will need to replace. That could be an issue for some folks. Plus, there's a safety aspect of it. By having a smaller area that is actually open, you are reducing where lead could get splattered if you make a mistake and put a wet piece of lead in your melting pot. I'll admit that I have never used one for casting, but if I was wanting to cast inside the house, I would definitely consider building one. I only cast during the winter and our winters are mild enough that having my garage open during this is definitely an option here.

[Longwood]

[QUOTE=a.squibload;1565884]The music isn't coming through.

I was kidding.

This type of fan is very quiet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hydrofarm-Active-Air-4-In-Line-Fan-165-CFM-/150730687681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23183fc4c1

[MGySgt]

That would be "flash point" of the various materials. For motor oil, it's 420-485F. Paraffin wax would be about 390-480F, dependent upon the additives in the wax. Olive oil is 437F.

Lead has a melting point of 621F, so it's well above the flash points of the materials in question. As for what the surface temperature of the molten lead, I would have to guess that it was probably pretty close to the melting point, maybe a bit less if you factor in some insulating effect due to the dross. If you have more info on this, I would like to hear it.

I will tell you that the surface temp of the molten lead is a lot higher than the bottom of the pot is.

When you get to the flah point of the wax or whatever you are using and it ignites. The flames are a lot hotter than the lead or flash point. I stuck my thermomiter (sp?) into the flames one time and it maxed out at 1000 degreees real quick!

I do use an old stove top vented hood which takes out 95% of the smoke and fumes when I am fluxing. I tried the stir stick, saw dust and the lead just didn't look as clean as it does when I use a wax or oil based flux.

[Echo]

I smelt outdoors on an old redwood picnic table, and cast indoors/outdoors. My reloading/casting room is the ex-storeroom that was just outside the kitchen door. When I enclosed the carport I added an outside door, so the ex-storeroom is now sorta inside, but not really (not A/C, not heated). I flux with sawdust, and the small amount of smoke that is generated doesn't get into the house, and is not too distracting. Emissions from the pot are 99.44% from the flux.

(Realize that 38% of all statistics are made up on the spot - I just did it again!)

[CollinLeon]

I flux with sawdust, and the small amount of smoke that is generated doesn't get into the house, and is not too distracting. Emissions from the pot are 99.44% from the flux.

I suspect that it is going to depend upon your wife / S.O. with respect to what degree of smell is acceptable. It's one thing for her to smoke or stink up the house with some recipe that goes wrong, it's quite another for you to even put out 1% of that smell or smoke during a casting session. My S.O. like Korean kimchi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimchi) and makes her own. It is basically a side dish of fermented vegetables and chili peppers. To me, it smells disgusting and if she opens it and I'm anywhere in the house, I smell it. Maybe it is not as disgusting decomp, but I don't like it anyway. Anyway... To her, there is nothing wrong with this smell, but if I was to cast and use a cedar stick to stir the lead, that would be totally unacceptable in the house. Not that it really matters to me since if I cast in the house, I would have to be more careful with splattered lead whereas casting in the garage, if some gets on the concrete and doesn't want to lift off, I just leave it there.

[MGySgt]

When you get to the flah point of the wax or whatever you are using and it ignites. The flames are a lot hotter than the lead or flash point. I stuck my thermomiter (sp?) into the flames one time and it maxed out at 1000 degreees real quick!



I just tested this AGAIN and the flames from a normal flux may be just a few degrees hotter than the lead.

The first time I tested this, it was during a smelting session where we use a LOT more flux to get the dirt out and the flames are burning off a lot of other carbon too.

Sorry about the miss leading post.

Drew

[geargnasher]

The only conclusive evidence of airborne lead from a casting pot that I've seen is one of our members (whose name eludes me presently, please speak up if you see this) had elevated lead levels in his blood and built a casting alcove out of plywood to contain the "vapors" and used a fan right behind the pot exhausting out a window. Subsequent tests with lead-indicating wipes on the sides of the alcove and the fan grille showed positive for lead after a while. Somehow, lead was getting airborne and contaminating surfaces around the pot, NO DOUBT, though by what mechanism nobody seems sure. I'm thinking it's microscopic particles of dross being carried and reduced by the soot from fluxing smoke and being deposited with the smoke. IIRC his blood levels dropped after building this setup, but I'm not sure what other habits he might have changed at the same time that might have affected that as well.

Gear

[bmac1949]

The vent hood by johnk454 is really nice. I cast in my shop with the doors down if the weather is bad. I have a vent fan going in one of the windows and crack the window on the opposite side and I also wear a particle mask respirator. When I smelt it is strictly outdoors.