Lee Autodisk Charge Bar Issue

[Norbrat]

I recently loaded a bunch of 38 specials using the Lee Pro1000.

When I shot 40 of them, I had a bunch of squibs, including one which left the bullet in the barrel. [smilie=b:

So I dismantled the rest of the ammo, and sure enough, a bunch of them had very little powder in them.

I've never had this problem with any ammo I'd loaded in the Pro1000, so was a bit stumped as to how this could have happened. After all, the Autodisk powder thrower is as simple and reliable as a battleaxe.

Anyway, I had a real close look at how I had set up the powder thrower. I had used the adjustable charge bar set to about 0.4cc of powder (5.2 gns of W540/HS6) and realised that the cavity was so small, it barely made it under the powder column in the hopper! It seems that occasionally, the cavity just didn't fill up with powder.

So I removed the charge bar and replaced it with the disc with the 0.4cc round cavity in it, which fitted nicely under the powder column, ran about 10 test loads, all of which were perfect, and loaded them all again.

So now I know to NOT use the adjustable charge bar for anything where the volume is less than about 0.8cc! :smile:

[jimkim]

I had a similar problem with mine once. I had something out of alignment. I've just tried to duplicate the problem, but have been unsuccessful.

[milprileb]

That adjustable charge bar is problematic on throwing charges, it is no longer trusted nor used.

I had same drama as you.

[jeepguy242]

i have the same problem when trying to throw less than 4.5ish grains of win 231, havent tried it on other powders tho

[Ben]

I usually have good things to say about Lee products, but not the adjustable charge bar. It is trouble looking for a place to happen. I've had the same identical problem as Norbrat. I have zero use for one of the things.

Ben

[jeepguy242]

maybe cause im tired, as i just got off work, or maybe its the colorado coolaid, but i neglected to mention that this can be somewhat fixed by loosening the thumbscrews just slightly, and pulling the top part of the powder measur toward the front of the press to take up the slop in the screw holes in the plastic of the powder measure before tightening the thumbscrews back down.

what i am trying to say, with that one long run on sentence is, the alignment can be slightly adjusted by taking up the slack in the holes..

[milprileb]

Just to pile on ....WW231 powder is one of those that just flows like water and this charge bar will foul up gravity and throw wide variances with this powder.

Lee had a good idea but it was not mated to his system to give good results. I don't know
why they don't fix it.

Anyhow, if you think about buying one, move on and don't look back.

[Longwood]

Just to pile on ....WW231 powder is one of those that just flows like water and this charge bar will foul up gravity and throw wide variances with this powder.

Lee had a good idea but it was not mated to his system to give good results. I don't know
why they don't fix it.

Anyhow, if you think about buying one, move on and don't look back.

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I second that.

I hated my Lee measure (with or without the adjustable bar) so much I finally put a manual measure and a little home made LED powder check light on my Lee LoadMaster.

FINALLY!

I now get precise loads .
If I were simply slinging lead down range like most people do, it would work just fine, but that ain't me.

[Longwood]

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I second that.

I hated my Lee measure (with or without the adjustable bar) so much I finally put a manual measure and a little home made LED powder check light on my Lee LoadMaster.

FINALLY!

I now get precise loads .
If I were simply slinging lead down range like most people do, it would work just fine, but that ain't me.

BTW
The lights are simple and cost very little to make.
I made them with recycled battery clip from a little $3 LED flashlight and the LED's from a headlamp that the strap failed on. A cell phone power supply (wall wart) works OK but then you will have to deal with 110 Power and a cord that is always in the way.
Yesterday, I found a little gooseneck LED light at the dollar store that has a usb2 plug on it.. They are about a foot long. It sure will be simple to make a positionable light with them.
The dollar store is a great source for cheap LED's.

[milprileb]

Ain't nothing like a light shining into the case and your M1 eye ball checking powder levels.

Thats the gold standard in my opinion.

[Model29-2]

I have run a bunch of tests and concluded for myself that I cannot use the charge bar with light loads. The issue appears to be static bridging over the small hole you observed. If you wipe it down with anti-static dryer sheets as has been suggested elsewhere it will go for a while. How far that is you take your chances.

More specifically, you should not use a flake powder, even something as fine as Clays, for light charges. Your established level of 0.4cc seems about right from my tests, although it would depend on th powder. W231 and N320 are spherical and meter better, but they are subject to this also.

Here are entries from my experiment notes:
Just when I thought N320 would work, it started to give me light or no charges. (I was using 3.6 grains N320). 50 rounds run thru after a 75 pull test gave me several in the 50 rounds that had light or NO charge with N320. N320 meters beautifully, so it must be the static build up. The static can take 75 to 100 pulls to build up a charge and when it does it starts to skip charges. There appears to be no way to bleed off the static, except take the thing apart. I tried jumper wires and it did not work. The plastic on the charge bar is different than that of the disks so I am hoping the disks do not build up static. I have hopes of building a new adjusting bar (the center piece on the charge bar) some time that could replace the one there and make it a useful part. Until then ; DON'T USE THE MICRO CHARGE BAR. I WOULD NOT TRUST IT EVEN WITH LARGER CHARGES. IT MAY BE ABLE TO STATIC BRIDGE THOSE ALSO, BECAUSE THE HOLE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POWDER HOPPER IS NO LARGER WITH LARGER CHARGES AND IT MAY BE PART OF THE PROBLEM, SINCE IT HAS THAT NEOPRENE GASKET THAT RUBS THE TOP OF THE CHARGE BAR.

Now regardless of my results, a lot of people get fine results, but I suspect that it is because they clean the hopper assembly/charge bar and graphite it every 500 rounds or sooner, and they use larger charges. I can't see doing that. I have had fine results with the disks. They work great, with the problem not observed in the disks. Maybe because they are a different plastic?

My 2 cents worth.


I recently loaded a bunch of 38 specials using the Lee Pro1000.

Anyway, I had a real close look at how I had set up the powder thrower. I had used the adjustable charge bar set to about 0.4cc of powder (5.2 gns of W540/HS6) and realised that the cavity was so small, it barely made it under the powder column in the hopper! It seems that occasionally, the cavity just didn't fill up with powder.

So I removed the charge bar and replaced it with the disc with the 0.4cc round cavity in it, which fitted nicely under the powder column, ran about 10 test loads, all of which were perfect, and loaded them all again.

So now I know to NOT use the adjustable charge bar for anything where the volume is less than about 0.8cc! :smile:

[GBertolet]

I had the same squib problem throwing 3.8gr of Clays. Seems to work OK with Bullseye though. I'm still keeping an eye on it anyway.

[Recluse]

The Lee adjustable charge bar, in my opinion, is THE single biggest piece of junk out there in the entire reloading equipment world.

Mine is sitting on the bottom of Lake Texoma near the Cedar Mills marina.

:coffee:

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have run a bunch of tests and concluded for myself that I cannot use the charge bar with light loads. The issue appears to be static bridging over the small hole you observed. If you wipe it down with anti-static dryer sheets as has been suggested elsewhere it will go for a while. How far that is you take your chances.

More specifically, you should not use a flake powder, even something as fine as Clays, for light charges. Your established level of 0.4cc seems about right from my tests, although it would depend on th powder. W231 and N320 are spherical and meter better, but they are subject to this also.


I bought the Lee adjustable charge bar just so I could throw lighter charges than the standard disks offer. I have not yet got around to needing any lighter charges. But thanks to the comments here, I guess I will not even try it.

Maybe some day I may need a particular charge (not a light charge) that is not
obtainable with the standard disks...then maybe I'll get some use out of this ?
or maybe not.

Thanks for the info.
Jon

[Vinne]

That is so true, Norbrat. When I first tried mine, I ran 5 or 6 test loads and found a big difference in the weight. I kept trying to make adjustments to correct the loads. I just gave up after the loads weren't going to hold true and changed back over to the disk.

[Ben]

It really surprises me that Lee continues to sell this " thing ".

They can't be making a lot of money on the thing, it is only hurting their reputation. I can't help but believe that they have already head everything that we've said and more !

Ben

[Recluse]

It really surprises me that Lee continues to sell this " thing ".

They can't be making a lot of money on the thing, it is only hurting their reputation. I can't help but believe that they have already head everything that we've said and more !

Ben

I would lay the blame for that at Richard's feet. Son John seems to have a much better handle on the business and reputation aspect of their company, but Richard has always struck me as an absolute arrogant a-double-s anytime anything "Lee Precision" is challenged.

Richard, and John's, innovations have often been other-worldly, but Richard's arrogance, in my opinion, is what has kept the company from expanding upon and/or improving upon the quality of some of their products.

And then sometimes I think that Lee's business model is the same one used by GM and Mr. Goodwrench--affordable so that when it breaks, it's easier and cheaper to simply buy another one.

I will say that in the last few years, the handful of things I've bought from Lee--including the Classic Turret press--the QC has nosedived.

The Classic Cast single stage press will probably be my last purchase of anything made by Lee.

:coffee:

[azhunter12]

Has the quality of the CC really gone down? I got mine a few years ago and love my turret to death. Its solid and loads anything from 9mm to 30-06 with no problems at all. A lot of the Lee stuff is **** I have to agree with you but I think the Classic Cast stuff could probably keep up with RCBS.

[utk]

I had exactly the same problems when I started using the adjustable charging bar for my 9mm loads. I found that with low volume settings the opening down to the cavity was so small that the powder sometimes bridged preventing the cavity to fill.

Ultimately, I sold everything Lee. An adjustable powder measure that doesn't work reliable is useless. And since only Lee-measures will fit a Lee-press, everything had to go. A rebuild with a Dillon measure would have been possible but too costly.

[jimkim]

I use other measures on my Lee presses. If it had a 7/8-14 thread, it pretty much has fit.

I am looking for something that will meter 1.3gr of BE. What do you use? What regular(as in affordable) measure works? I have a Uniflow, LNL, Lee Disk, and Lee PP measure.

[Recluse]

Has the quality of the CC really gone down? I got mine a few years ago and love my turret to death.

I like the build and the concept, but either the Lee shellholders suck or the timing sucks or the turret fit sucks.

After maybe three or four rounds loaded (translation: twelve to sixteen pulls of the handle and quarter-rotations of the turret), you have begin physically lining up the brass to be sized, then linking it back up on the down stroke to be primed.

The ram will not hold the shellholder in place.

Everything else about the Classic Turret is great, but these hiccups in quality-control, which seems to be an ever increasing oxymoron at Lee Precision, are infuriating.

And put quite simply? If I had do to it over, I would pass on the Classic Cast and would've bought the Redding or RCBS turret press.

:coffee:

[milprileb]

And since only Lee-measures will fit a Lee-press, everything had to go

Not sure I am reading this right so I would like to give my experience. While the adj. bar is problematic and I no longer use it in my Lee Pro Disk measure, I have found the Pro Measure to work just fine on my Dillon 650 die plate. I have one plate set up for 45 acp 230 grRN bullets using Dillon measure and one set up for 200 gr SWC 45 acp bullets using the Lee Pro measure. I am using WW230 (aka HP 38 which is cheaper to buy if you don't know that) and I find the Lee Pro works absolutely flawless and have no issues with it.

When I gear up to do a 9mm conversion on that Dillon 650, I will buy another Lee measure for that die plate. At 1/3 the cost and same reliability as the Dillon measure, I see no love in buying the Dillon product.

I am over 10,000 rounds of 200 gr SWC 45acp rounds pumped out of that Dillon using the Lee Measure so I trust it and I know it works.

[utk]

You quoted one sentence:

And since only Lee-measures will fit a Lee-press, everything had to go.


I had exactly the same problems when I started using the adjustable charging bar for my 9mm loads. I found that with low volume settings the opening down to the cavity was so small that the powder sometimes bridged preventing the cavity to fill.

Ultimately, I sold everything Lee. An adjustable powder measure that doesn't work reliable is useless. And since only Lee-measures will fit a Lee-press, everything had to go. A rebuild with a Dillon measure would have been possible but too costly.

I started out using the disks, and everything was fine, as you have found. But after some time I wanted to fine-tune my loads and tried the adjustable powder bar. And found it unreliable with the powder weights wanted.

Instead of the Lee turret press I am now using an old CH444 with a Redding powder measure. Slightly slower than the turret but this press is for low volume reloads of different caliber/boolit combinations.
For higher volume reloading I use my RCBS Ammomaster.

[gefiltephish]

The fix for the adjustable charge bar is actually quite simple and has been discussed many times. http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=582 It's a 4 page thread with photos on pages 1 and 2.

Yes, Lee is aware of what the problem is but, as I recall, has stated they are not going to fix it.

[jimkim]

You quoted one sentence:

And since only Lee-measures will fit a Lee-press, everything had to go.



I started out using the disks, and everything was fine, as you have found. But after some time I wanted to fine-tune my loads and tried the adjustable powder bar. And found it unreliable with the powder weights wanted.

Instead of the Lee turret press I am now using an old CH444 with a Redding powder measure. Slightly slower than the turret but this press is for low volume reloads of different caliber/boolit combinations.
For higher volume reloading I use my RCBS Ammomaster.

I use Lee, RCBS, and Hornady measures with my LCT. My experience has been that any rig with a 7/8-14 thread will fit it. I quoted the entire thing, because I didn't want you to think I was cherry picking.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=126008
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=653&tbm=isch&tbnid=opVgFtZ03GPJlM:&imgrefurl=http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D361082%26page%3D2&docid=5nwJudUSD8Q0EM&imgurl=http://www.jeepfliki.com/images/case%252520activated%252520powder%252520drop%25252 0with%252520powder%252520through%252520expansion%2 52520die%252520.451-.452.jpg&w=453&h=604&ei=HxUXT9WuINPptgfkvJnpAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=97&vpy=247&dur=2910&hovh=259&hovw=194&tx=161&ty=188&sig=107198475348025134804&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=107&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:0

[utk]

jimkim,
I was thinking of using the Redding powder measure, but I was uncertain if the indexing system would work with such a heavy powder measure.
Also, I had no reason to believe the ACB wouldn't work with the low settings.

[jimkim]

I have never used the autoindex. I would think it would cause excessive wear on the "ratchet".
I guess the only way to know if something works is to try it.

I have an RCBS Unifow in my "odds-n-ends" turret. I keep thinking I'll sell it, and use my NEW(why did I buy it again?) LNL, but I just can't seem to part with it.

[leadman]

Lee does make a micro-disk for the measure forlight loads.
What I have also done if I needed a load that the disk could not accomadate is melt a little candle wax in the cavity. Then run 10 charges or so to get the wax coated with graphite. The wax can be easily trimmed out or added to get the exact weight of powder you want.
I use a silver marking pen (scripto) to draw a circle around that cavity so I know it is the one modified.

[moyneur]

I loaded up 200 9mm, 500 357, 200 38 specials, and only had 2 bad loads. the index guide just isn't right, I weigh the charge to find the desired grain then reweight the charge after adou 10 to 20 loads with hey consistent measurements. I guest I've beed lucky.

[Recluse]

The fix for the adjustable charge bar is actually quite simple and has been discussed many times. http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=582 It's a 4 page thread with photos on pages 1 and 2.

Yes, Lee is aware of what the problem is but, as I recall, has stated they are not going to fix it.

As much and as long as I have defended Lee, it is this kind of bull---- that has me pretty well convinced that the Classic Cast single stage press will be my final purchase of any Lee equipment well into the future.

When you have a KNOWN problem, and you ADMIT to having a problem, then state you are not going to fix it, that is ****. When it is a problem that results in squibs, which can cause a dangerous situation and you acknowledge the problem and state you are not going to fix it, I have no reason whatsoever to support you.

If *I* a as a reloader and shooter mean that little to a company that wants my business that they're willing to knowingly continue manufacturing a product with a known defect that can result in a historically dangerous situation (squibs), but is willing to hide behind the "reloading is dangerous and YOUR responsibility to ensure everything is right," then my use for said company becomes zero.

Either fix/modify the product or discontinue its manufacture.

Hell, I might even bypass the Classic Cast and get another Rock Chucker.

This really whizzes me off.

:coffee:

[gefiltephish]

Well, with all things you find on the Internet, eye it with just a bit of suspicion. I don't have first hand knowledge of what I posted, I recall reading it a couple of years ago, perhaps in that loadmastervideos link. I believe it was Darwin that posted it, and he seems to be in frequent contact with the Lee's, so I'm inclined to think it's accurate. Still, if I didn't hear it with my own two ears straight from the horses mouth, I tend to take it with a grain of salt.

[Recluse]

Well, with all things you find on the Internet, eye it with just a bit of suspicion. I don't have first hand knowledge of what I posted, I recall reading it a couple of years ago, perhaps in that loadmastervideos link. I believe it was Darwin that posted it, and he seems to be in frequent contact with the Lee's, so I'm inclined to think it's accurate. Still, if I didn't hear it with my own two ears straight from the horses mouth, I tend to take it with a grain of salt.

Agree, and I wander over to Darwin's site every once in a while and always leave shaking my head, wondering why I'm still defending a brand for whose followers/owners have to set up their own dedicated websites and youtube channels just to address problems the manufacturer WON'T. . .

If/when Dillon has a problem, they address it and fix it. If/when Hornady has a problem, they address it and fix it.

When Lee has a problem, they do nothing and rely on their customers to address it and fix it.

The last two phone conversations I've had with Lee have pretty much convinced me to wave goodbye to them.

I'm still flipping a coin between the Lee Classic Cast and the Hornady Lock N Load single stage and another Rock Chucker.

:coffee:

[milprileb]

Recluse; a Hornady LNL single stage is just a red Rock chucker. Unless your Rock Chucker has died on you, I suggest leaping over to a Co Ax.

[gefiltephish]

@Recluse, I do understand and appreciate your stance on principal.

Well, for what it's worth, after my loadmaster experience I was certainly not inclined to get another Lee press. I did get an LNL progressive though, and quite happy with it.

However, I decided that I'd prefer to have a turret press for low volume 45-70 and 30-30. After having read so many posts of people praising the Classic Cast Turret, I decided to take a chance. I've only had it for a little less than 2 months, but I have to admit it is all everyone claimed it to be, nothing more and nothing less. Yeah the safety prime is pretty cheesy to look at, but it performs it's task without issue. Overall, I'm happy with it, it's a good value.

I don't know how well that translates to the single stage, but there's not too much to go wrong barring out of spec machine work.

[Recluse]

I don't know how well that translates to the single stage, but there's not too much to go wrong barring out of spec machine work.

Yeah, the Classic Cast Turret is a good system. I took out the Lee shell holder and popped in an RCBS shell holder and my alignment/wandering problems vanished and the press works exactly as advertised.

I'll probably go forward with the Classic Cast because at the end of the day, I believe it is the best built and offers the most value for the money--the two factors that always determine how I choose my purchases.

But unless something changes with Lee, that will in all likelihood be my final purchase of anything made by them. Sad, really, but it's hard to continue being loyal to a brand that pumps out known problems and it content to let their CUSTOMERS develop, engineer and devise solutions for THEIR sloppy manufacturing.

:coffee:

[milprileb]

The Grand Pris of presses is the Co Ax with a roller handle on it. Puts my Rock Chucker into retirement.

[garym1a2]

Sorry, its not the biggest piece of junk in the reloading world. That's ranking is for the Lee Loadmaster! I could have gotten a gun for what I wasted on it. What a shame since my Classic Cast and my Classic cast Turrent are great pressess! I really also like the little Lee perfect powder measure.


The Lee adjustable charge bar, in my opinion, is THE single biggest piece of junk out there in the entire reloading equipment world.

Mine is sitting on the bottom of Lake Texoma near the Cedar Mills marina.

:coffee: