New Reloading room help

[birdadly]

UPDATED APRIL 24 (bench is finally started!!! post #71):

Hi gang. I'm turning 1 of my 3 basement rooms into a reloading area. I've attached a crude, preliminary drawing of what I have.

I'm currently putting up lumber and will be insulating and dry-walling (Done with this!). Then I want to put in a drop ceiling (Done!) and new lights. The bench is the brown area, I'm thinking 11' x 13' (x 2' deep). The grid work in the photo is the 2'x4' drop ceiling tiles. The two blue spots on left and right side are small windows.

I've taken some advice you've given and am leaning towards one light switch that will turn on the 10 can lights to light the entire room. Then, a second light switch will turn on the 2 8' florescent lights above the bench! The half of the room closest to the doorway (bottom-right) may be used, at times, as a game room (for adults).

-Brad

[skeettx]

Will you be casting there?
Where will you place the vent hood?
The window area looks promising.
Mike

[birdadly]

Yeppers. I will be replacing the windows and will pick out ones that slide open. I do plan to put some type of vent, maybe not permanent though, but one that can come out when needed and then put away. But it would go up to the window screen then, or even take out the screen and have the tubing go right outside. I've seen some pics on here of hooded vents and I will be searching for those threads once I get to that point :) -Brad

[462]

With incandescent lighting, directly above the bench, you will be working in your shadow. Instead, install florescent lighting.

[schutzen]

Follow 462's advice. Switch all your lighting to florescent. You get more light, cheaper bulbs (length of life / cost), and cooler operation.

[Walt]

Can lights to target something specifically, with florescents as the main source, would be fine but like the guys said not alone.

[C.F.Plinker]

Use either 2 or 4 tube 4' fluorescents. I like to locate them above the near edge of the bench to avoid shadows on the bench. This also front lights everything at the rear of the bench. You want light that is uniform, bright, glare free and shadow free if you can get it.

I just had to replace one of my old T12 lighting fixtures with the new T8 two tube fixture. If you have the old T12's, keep them. I found that they were brighter than the T8s and gave a better quality of light. I installed outlet boxes in the ceiling and plug the fluorescents into them. This allows me to move the lighs around at least a little. If you go with fluorescents check to see if the fixture has to be suspended rather than surface mounted. This can affect your design especially if you are using a suspended ceiling.

[birdadly]

Thanks guys! So are you guys talking about the ones that are like 4' long? Those bulbs? The ones I had planned on were LED can lights. These had a $25 rebate on each from the government at the time. I actually didn't buy enough for the whole room, so may be bringing them back anyway.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=202240932&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&cm_sp=electrical-_-lightbulbs-_-creeEcosmart-_-shopnow

I was thinking with the can lights in the middle of bench's depth, and with the presses at the edge of the bench, I wouldn't be working in my shadow... but I could be wrong. -Brad

[bigjason6]

For building the bench, you might want to look into the Kreg pocket hole jig. It makes woodworking projects a million times easier. Here's a video on using it, pretty cool piece of equipment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LnhMFNqRZ4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[drklynoon]

I personnally do not like indoor florecent lights. The hum drives me crazy. As far as lighting I would light the interior of the room as you like it if it were not a work area. Then put up under cabinet lights over your bench. Another thing to remember is that the nicer the area the more you won't be able to keep people out ;-)

[462]

"These had a $25 rebate on each from the government at the time."

You meant the American taxpayers, right? :bigsmyl2:

[Sonnypie]

"These had a $25 rebate on each from the government at the time."

You meant the American taxpayers, right? :bigsmyl2:

Naw, Obama just took it out of his vacation fund...:wink:

[birdadly]

It was a Wisconsin-only rebate at the time, so I suppose I paid for it myself, but $25 off each for a light that uses less energy and is whiter than some other lights, I thought they were pretty cool.

Thanks for the ideas fellas. I'll really look at the florescents before making a final decision. I'll run to the store this weekend and check out some options.

The house is about 65 years old, so this will definitely be the nicest of the 3 rooms in the basement. Luckily I've seen no signs of water damage in the 6 years I've been here. I just hope it can stay warm in there as there's only 1 vent at the moment.

[wv109323]

I would use whatever I wanted as general light in the center of the room. I would consider a wall mounted track light over the work area. I would switch the track mounted lighting seperate from the general lighting. With track lighting you can point the light where you need or like the light to be. Also there is a variety of wattage and intensity of bulbs. Just my thoughts.

[Mike Kerr]

I have switched to flourescent lighting but still use the old portable incadescent style fixtures, which have clamp style bases. It looks "cheesey" :oops: but has allowed a great deal of flexibility in manuvering the lighting for "task specific" work. One center mounted overhead provides a great deal of light and six "inexpensive portables" provide anything and everything else for up to 5 work stations.

With all possible respect I submit that to preplan exact fixed lighting for a reloading room is at least 40-50% ineffective OR 40-50% :violin: more costly than a somewhat flexible portable system. A happy medium might be track lighting with large reflectors (not small cans) on the light source.

I have been happy and pleased with my " cheesey" lighting set up for over a decade so I know I am on the right track.

regards,
:):):)

[Recluse]

Follow 462's advice. Switch all your lighting to florescent. You get more light, cheaper bulbs (length of life / cost), and cooler operation.

I've got florescent overhead lighting in my reloading shop, but primarily use incandescent lighting. The florescent lighting is cold feeling and for whatever reason/s, gives me a headache.

You could install some inexpensive track lighting and aim the lights at the wall in front of your reloading bench. This would give you very good illumination via indirect lighting, which would also be adjustable to however you needed or wanted it.

:coffee:

[adrians]

as per RECLUSE " You could install some inexpensive track lighting and aim the lights at the wall in front of your reloading bench. This would give you very good illumination via indirect lighting, which would also be adjustable to however you needed or wanted it"

a combination of both florescent and track lighting works best for me, those track -spot lights twist and slide and turn every which way , point em anywhere you want em
my 2c worth,,,:evil::coffee::twisted:

[keyhole]

just my thoughts...
My bench is 10' long. I have a twin tube 8' flourescent mounted above it. The centerpoint of the tubes is about 18" from the front edge of the bench. It puts the light on the bench where you are working. If it is directly overhead I think you would get some shadows or areas where the light is not well filled in. There are several types of flourescent tubes. You want "warm" or similar term. It is a much less harsh light. The difference in light quality when installed is pretty noticeable. There is a slight hum but I have used this setup for 30+ years and have found it very satisfactory.

Keyhole

[birdadly]

With all possible respect I submit that to preplan exact fixed lighting for a reloading room is at least 40-50% ineffective OR 40-50%

This makes sense to me. Very appreciated tips, guys, thank you. This morning I'm liking the idea several of you touched on... light the room as if I wasn't using it for reloading, and then add specific lights above the bench, possibly temporary (or moveable) lights.

One thing I didn't think of with the diagram above, is that I do plan on putting shelving on the wall, possibly 8" depth. A light directly above the bench might cast a shadow of the shelves, so probably would be better away from the wall a bit more, and be directed towards the bench (ie: track lighting).

Hmmm. -Brad

[Wayne Smith]

This Christmas I made and put in 21' 2" of shelving in my loading room, a converted bedroom. I made the bottom shelf 12" wide because I wanted my scales (beam scales) off the bench, even though the bench is solid enough that vibration from loading has not disturbed the scales on the bench this past year. I have a fan mounted light fixture in the center of the room that provides ample light and shadows don't bother me, or at least I haven't noticed them in the least.

[birdadly]

Hi gang. Since I've been taking a few pics of my progress, I figure I'll share. :popcorn:

My bench will be going about 11' on the far wall, and 13' towards the camera on the left side.

01: The messy room before I started! Previous owner had 2 ratty, crappy, flimsy 'closets' (for lack of better word) near the back of the room. Sump-pump, drain, and meter on the back, right side (messy looking).

02: Cleared out those 2 closets and cleaned up! 77-year old pops helping out!

03: Studs and insulation going up! Framed in the 2 windows so they can still swing open after I add drop-ceiling.

04: Drywall is going up!! Also put in an exhaust fan for casting in the ceiling (about 6' 10" ceiling. BUT, I'm not very happy with how well it sucks stuff up. I held a candle under it, blew it out, and it only sucked up the smoke once I got to w/in about 18" or so under the fan... I was hoping for better... so still thinking about this...

05: I hate plastering!! But this is the same angle as pics 01 and 02... bench will be on left and far walls. We added an inside wall for a storage room and to hide the drain and stuff from pic 01.

Now I need to do some sanding and maybe plaster a bit more to clean up some areas. Then a quick paint-job and I'll be putting in the ceiling! The switches are wired for lights, just no lights bought yet.

Anywho, thanks for taking a look and thank you for opinions, insight and criticism! I hope at least 1 person will enjoy the update! -Brad

[skeettx]

Looking great, thanks for the update
Mike

[geargnasher]

Well I'm enjoying it, Birdadly, just now found the thread! That "purple" rock is good stuff, won't mildew and water doesn't hurt it. Once it's painted and covered with all your stuff, you won't notice the imperfections in the joints.

Having just gone through the same thing, I can appreciate the scope of the project. Most of my input on the subject (and learning curve) is contained in the following threads, including pics.

Here's my thread on indoor casting ventilation systems: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=138085

Here's the one asking for general input, good stuff there from everybody: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=117854

And finally here's the full build with pics, you might pick up some ideas, I sure did from all the good tips members shared with me:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=134892

Here's another link to a better explanation of the final set of pics, kind of a "dime tour" that explains some of the whys and wherefors. Yes, there really are a total of 58 sheets of 5/8" fire rated drywall in this project, and I installed it appropriately to give me at least a 1 hour fire rating and the roon should tolerate the collapse of the surrounding structure should it burn. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1548408&postcount=1006

Gear

[birdadly]

geargnasher, I should have posted a Thank You right away, but it took me a few days to get thru your threads and then figured I may as well wait until I had a slight update to add... thank you so much for those threads; you were right, the members here had A LOT of nice advice. I'll be re-reading them as I keep going in my room.

Well I finished my plastering joints, sanded, plastered, and sanded again, wiped down the walls... and got to painting a first coat today. It's looking good I think. It's a very light, warm gray and I think the second coat will really shape up the room! After the second coat, then I think I'll tackle the drop-ceiling to really bring it together.

I looked over a few pages in the Reloading Bench Pics thread and a pic made me wonder this... 'should' my bench be attached to the walls? or can I just have it free-standing so I don't have to put holes in my new wall right away? It'd be quite a bit stronger attached eh?

Thanks everyone. -Brad

[skeettx]

Great progress being made
Thanks for sharing

Attached not required
BUT if you find out later that you wish it attached,
then that is a simple thing
Mike

[slim400]

Hello there and welcome the only thing that I would say to you is you are only limited by your room you have available to you and safety keep in mind most of which will be handling this flammable and explosive to some reading or talk to someone that has cast quite a bit if you have not done this before it can be done perfectly safe keeping your lead temperature right around 700° to not exceed 900 weeks very dangerous very deadly other than that have a good time and I would like to know that I've built a separate building for my reloading and casting and have somewhere around 1400 ft.² dedicated the wife sees no need for anything out there but now that I am retired she certainly is glad that I have something to do to keep me busy and then the upside to the whole situation is it keeps my first hobby cheap that would be target shooting and hunting which she absolutely thinks is a wonderful thing have fun and be safe anything I can do to help fill free to e-mail me your PM or post to the forum have a wonderful time Dave

[geargnasher]

Thanks for the update, Brad, and I'm glad you found those links of some use.

As for fastening benches to the walls, I would do it. What I did was build a 2x4 frame for my benches that looks like a ladder and fasten it to the wall studs with 4" deck screws (watch your electrical wiring!), then once I got it level, I inserted 4x4 front legs every few feet and screwed them to the frame where the braces met the front 2x4, then fastened the 4x4 front legs to the floor with Tapcon screws and L-brackets. After that I screwed 2-by lumber to the frame right through the top. It could then be topped with thin plywood and formica, or just coated with wipe-on polyurethane like I did.

I was planning on fastening my island to the floor the same way, but balked at drilling through the carpet in case I decided to move it slightly. It ended up being so heavy when I got all the gear situated on it that it doesn't need fastening, it's absolutely rock solid the way it is.

If you build free-standing benches with legs front and back, just run a screw though the frame and into a wall stud every few feet and it will be plenty.

Gear

[birdadly]

Thanks guys. I'm getting over not wanting to put holes in my new walls (this is my first undertaking of new walls!) and I do like your description, Gear, on how you did it.

The room is now 2 colors, both gray; my work area slightly lighter than the entrance area. I'm leaning towards a cheap carpet, since the thought of putting down the tile I have sounds like a lot of work. I got very cheap, Armstrong vinyl tile you see in stores and schools... sounds like a pain to put down and make look nice though.

I managed to put together this 3D rendering of my room :) It's a work in progress, but neat to see how it may look! I'm thinking about shelving space. I think I have too many on top of the table, and should probably put one under the table, on the braces of the bench.

Oh, and I found (cheap again) 4 solid core doors, 36" x 7', that I'm thinking of ripping down to 30", and using for my bench tops! They all match and have a nice surface.

And last night I finally got started on the grid-work for the drop ceiling... turns out THAT'S a pain to do too! I definitely know why I am no carpenter!! -Brad

[30cal]

Looks good,maybe a few cabinets over your work bench and at least 2 power outlets spread out up top behind the the bench part.

[geargnasher]

Here's a picture, maybe it will make more sense. The board that goes on the wall, the board across the front, and all the short ones between them were assembled first with 3" screws and liquid nails to make the "frame" support for the top and legs. I struck a level line on the wall and mounted the frame to the wall, then installed the legs in place so I could level the frame front-to-back, then plumbed the legs and screwed them to the floor (not necessary really, especially if you add a brace). Last the top went on.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_89094f513b175c75a.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4207)

I obit-sanded, stained, and finished all the "visible" frame surfaces and it looks pretty sharp unless you lay on the floor and look under it! When I did all this it was raining outside and I was piecing it together in the room, so much of the stuff was put together before the finish was dry.

I'd think really hard about getting either low-pile carpet or that rubber flooring that was recommended to me. I decided against the rubber due to expense, looks, and comfort. Tile or concrete will break everything you drop on it, low-pile carpet will give things a chance. One reason I built our kitchen countertops with rock maple is that it absorbs impact, whereas granite will shatter a drinking glass that was dropped one inch.

Gear

[RKJ]

That looks very nice. I saw your 77 year old Dad was helping you, my FIL is 80 and can still work me and his 2 sons under the table. You (and the guys here) have given me some good ideas also, I've got a room downstairs (already finished) that I'll be able to put to use in a few months. I figured I would use it for reloading but I didn't think about casting until this thread. There are 2 windows in the room so a window mounted fan should do pretty good for me. Sorry for the hi-jack.

[geargnasher]

Birdadly, something to which I would recommend giving some serious thought is making your reloading and casting a "sit-down" endeavor. I see you have high chairs in your rendering, and that's just fine if you prefer, but I made the switch to rolling "receptionist" chairs with adjustable air-piston bases and upright backs, and it makes a world of difference to the body during long sessions of play. A side benefit of sitting in a regular chair at a low bench (mine are 30", casting bench is 28") is that you can make one more row of easily accessible cubbyholes behind the bench, and you can more easily maintain things like case feeders and automatic powder measures without standing on tiptoe like I had to do with my 42" bench before.

I have the beginnings of osteo-arthritis and ran way too many miles when I was younger, so I'm adjusting my lifestyle to a more "body friendly" regimen now in hopes I can extend my active life, or at least be in the habit of doing things the easier way before I'm forced to.

Just something to consider, I know most of us are used to standing at a tall bench or half-perching on a stool, but when you have a nice, dedicated setup like you're working on with no extension cords or air hoses strewn about, low benches and a rollie chair is worth a look.

Gear

[Texas Tinker]

In addition to the flourecent lighting suggestion (I agree). I would also suggest covering the back wall behind the work bench with white wall board. It is sold at most Home Centers for inexpensive shower enclosure. I prefer to use it as a light reflecting surface that also doubles as a dry erase board. It usually costs about $10.00 to 15.00 per 4' x 8' sheet, it cuts easily with a circular saw (tape the line to be cut to avoid damaging the smooth surface) and really brightens up areas you want to be bright.

[dragonrider]

I would not use carpet on the floor, don't go well with spilled powder, primers, shot if you load shotgun. A smooth floor is essential in a loading room, it can be swept clean instead of using a vacuum.
Wish I had that much space, I've got about 1/2 of that, maybe less.

[ErikO]

Overhead flourescent lighting seems to be causing issues for my 5-0-5 scale. YMMV.

I reload with some Ott Lamps that are angled at my bench and the scale doesn't react poorly to those.

[Ickisrulz]

Overhead flourescent lighting seems to be causing issues for my 5-0-5 scale. YMMV.

I reload with some Ott Lamps that are angled at my bench and the scale doesn't react poorly to those.

How can lights effect a mechanical scale? I've heard people say their electronic scales can be effected.

[birdadly]

So many useful tips and considerations! Thank you all. I wish I had a nice update for you, but having never done this stuff myself, has me going REAL slow and questioning just about everything. Even the simple things are road blocks.

I started my drop ceiling this past weekend, and after some chatting with friends over lunch today, I think I can continue with it and get it done. I'm planning to attache 3, 4' fluorescent shop lights to the grid and have them plugged in above the panels, attached to a light switch. I'm hoping they don't effect equipment negatively.

Flooring I keep going back and forth. I found a very low-pile carpet (cheap too) that is glued down, since I'm going on top concrete... okay, actually I'm going on top of some "old" tiles that I would like covered anyway. BUT, I have a bunch of Armstrong VCT tiles that I might use up instead. I chatted with a Home Depot flooring fella this weekend and he says it should be easy to lay down, and went thru it with me. Then I'd put some mats around the work area either for comfort or if something were to fall.

Thanks for the input fellas, and to those that said this thread has given them things to think about, or ideas, that's awesome. I really enjoy hearing feedback from you guys, as I don't have any reloading buddies to help out. -Brad

[geargnasher]

I used compact flourescent bulbs in standard incandescent globed fixtures because I can't stand that gawdafull 60hz HUM. They also tolerate being switched off/on a lot compared to traditional remote ballast fixtures. With a drop ceiling, I'm assuming you're using acoustic tiles and standard recessed fluorescent fixtures?

Gear

[birdadly]

Acoustic tiles I guess they'd be called, yep. 2x4 footers, cheap ones! The room will be lit by 65w can lights on one switch, and another that will turn on the shop lights I bought (placed over my bench).

These were $10 (after rebate), so I bought 3 of them and some T8 bulbs. I temporarily put them up on the floor joists and they did seem quite nice. There's clamps I can get that will attach the lights to the ceiling grid I believe. The troffer lights were just a bit out of my budget that I wanted to spend. -Brad

http://www.menards.com/main/lighting-fans/indoor-lights/fluorescent/48-treadplate-titanium-light/p-1385010-c-6354.htm

[ErikO]

How can lights effect a mechanical scale? I've heard people say their electronic scales can be effected.

Mine's magnetically dampened...

[Ickisrulz]

Mine's magnetically dampened...

I wasn't aware lights effected magnets.

[ErikO]

I wasn't aware lights effected magnets.

lol Nope, the transformers do. I have a low-ish ceiling.

[468]

Consider starting your shelves about 18 to 24 inches above your bench. This will: A) give you more usable depth on your benchtop, and B) allow you to mount flouresent lighting under the shelves illuminating your work area without shadows.

2 things I learned building my shop: You can't have too much light, and you can't have too much bench.

[birdadly]

I like that idea 468, thank you. Gear, I believe I'm taking your advice and lowering my bench to about 30" to use a regular office chair. I only dropped the ceiling about 4", but it sure makes the room smaller, and a shorter bench will look nicer for one, and I believe I will like sitting lower as well. And, my chair can then have wheels.

The ceiling grid and tiles are all up except where I'm putting can lights. I also started on the flooring today as well. Tomorrow is a full day at the range, but hopefully in a few more days I'll get some updated pics to show off. Thanks everyone! -Brad

[birdadly]

Hi gang, an update for anyone still looking... I know, it looks like a laboratory; it's so white and clean! I wanted that so it stays bright. Adding everything in (bench, cabinets, shelves, etc) I'm sure will darken it up.

So laying 360 sq/ft of vinyl tiles by yourself isn't any fun, just FYI in case you were thinking of doing it. My hopes are that I put enough adhesive down and that my 140lb frame was able to put enough pressure on them (with a roller) to keep them in place for a good, long time. I have to find out how long to let them set, then I plan to get a sealer/polish and shine it up.

The renders are how I think I will make my bench. 4x4 front legs, 2x4 back legs, made like a ladder like geargnasher showed. If it's not strong enough I can always add supports. The top is the 1 3/4" solid doors I bought from the Habitat store.

Sooo, after sealing the floor, adding trim ($1 per 7' after rebate at Menards!!), adding can lights... then I think I'll be able to start my bench!!! It's going to be great ...so I hope! -Brad

[williamwaco]

If it is not too late - Do not use 8" flourescents. They hum like crazy. Use two 4 foot fixtures instead.

[birdadly]

Nope, not too late! I have, and am hoping they're nice, three 4-footers, two T-8 bulbs each. Two will go on the left wall and one on the far wall. I've been told between using the T-8 bulbs and being new fixtures (ballasts are made differently now), they'll be a lot nicer than old ones. I'm hoping for no, or little, hum, and nice clean light! -Brad

[geargnasher]

WOW, talk about a transformation! You have to call that your GunLab now.

You'll have to watch what kind of casters you get for your rollie chair with that white tile so you don't get black skidmarks everywhere, but it sure looks nice.

FYI you don't need to bother with any "back" legs to the bench unless you just want them or it makes your design easier to execute. I just screwed the backbrace on all my benches into every stud it runs across (16" centers), put the 4x4s on the front, and it will support anything I'm likely to have on it. 3" deck screws can hold 300 lbs each both in tension and in shear.

That pole in the middle makes me grin every time I look at it. Not that you asked, but I think it needs to either have a rotating rifle rack built around it, or be polished up and made the centerpiece for the next stag party in your group of friends. :razz: On a more realistic note, have you considered building a small island table around it, like three feet square? It would make a superb 4-station lube/sizer bench with plenty of elbow room, or lube on one side and case prep on the other, whatever your needs are. It looks like you have plenty of room to work around a small island, and there's no use letting the space there go to waste.

When I designed my room, I first figured how many reloading stations I needed plus two, and how much room for each. Then I figured every process I do and the room the equipment needed, including a station for multi-tasking with tools I can swap out. Then I added a gunsmith bench of minimum 6' and figured the gun safe and powder magazine. After figuring the linear feet of bench, minimum bench depth and the size of the room, I played with it until I found a way to cram it all in there and still roll a chair around and walk through the whole thing with a bag on my shoulder and rifle in my hand without banging the stock or knocking anything off of the benches. If I ever start loading for shotguns I'll have to do it somewhere else!

Just more things to consider as you do your layout.

Gear

[Walt]

Nope, not too late! I have, and am hoping they're nice, three 4-footers, two T-8 bulbs each. Two will go on the left wall and one on the far wall. I've been told between using the T-8 bulbs and being new fixtures (ballasts are made differently now), they'll be a lot nicer than old ones. I'm hoping for no, or little, hum, and nice clean light! -Brad

The modern T-8 flourescents put out more light for less money than the older fat 40 watt jobs. You will be impressed! We converted all the old fixtures in the sheet metal shop and office area where I work. The local electric provider even helped pay for the conversion. The change is almost unbelievable.

[largom]

Gear's suggestion of a center island around the lolly column is spot on. I have an island in my gun/loading room and consider it essential. I don't have a lolly column to contend with so I suspended a piece of peg board from the ceiling centered over the island. I hang various gun tools on the peg board and have two rifle vises on the table top. This is where I do my cleaning, scope mounting, bore slugging and other gun work.

You are going to have a beautiful loading room!

Larry

[Longwood]

The modern T-8 flourescents put out more light for less money than the older fat 40 watt jobs. You will be impressed! We converted all the old fixtures in the sheet metal shop and office area where I work. The local electric provider even helped pay for the conversion. The change is almost unbelievable.

We used to change all of the fluorescent's in a large well lit building once a year.
Same old type of bulbs but the difference was always like nite and day.
It was almost like they doubled that number of fixtures.
A friend works for a large grocery outlet and he has tried to give me used bulbs several times but I do not take them.
The big HID lights need replacing often also.

[Longwood]

Presently, I have a single 150 watt fluorescent bulb over my bench. It lays horizontal because it is only 15 inches long by 4 inches in diameter.
I got it and a hood from an ex pot grower for free.

[Walt]

We used to change all of the fluorescent's in a large well lit building once a year.
Same old type of bulbs but the difference was always like nite and day.
It was almost like they doubled that number of fixtures.
A friend works for a large grocery outlet and he has tried to give me used bulbs several times but I do not take them.
The big HID lights need replacing often also.

Changing flourescent lamps is a good idea from time to time, just as you say. I have been told that in multiple lamp fixtures all bulbs should be changed when doing so. I was also told that the new T-8 lamps should be "burnt in" for 24 hours straight for best results. That may hold true for any flourescents. Longwood, these new T-8s require new style ballasts when updating fixtures. You can't just change the bulbs. It's a whole new high efficiency set up, and well worth the trouble.

[Longwood]

I am trying to go LED everywhere.
A friend just finished a RV-10 that he put LED's on for landing lights.
12 tiny little LEDs that well nearly blind a person at 100 yards.
Not little compared to the ones I see most. Each lens is about 3/4" in diameter and the light emitter is quite large. Hard to tell how big because of the lens.
The six lens light is only about 2 1/2" square.
Very interesting.

[Walt]

I am trying to go LED everywhere.
A friend just finished a RV-10 that he put LED's on for landing lights.
12 tiny little LEDs that well nearly blind a person at 100 yards.
Not little compared to the ones I see most. Each lens is about 3/4" in diameter and the light emitter is quite large. Hard to tell how big because of the lens.
The six lens light is only about 2 1/2" square.
Very interesting.

The rebate our electric supplier gave us for the new flourescents also had funds for new parking lot lights.....yup LEDs. They are obnoxious, they are so bright you can't stand to be in the lot. [smilie=l:

[Longwood]

The rebate our electric supplier gave us for the new flourescents also had funds for new parking lot lights.....yup LEDs. They are obnoxious, they are so bright you can't stand to be in the lot. [smilie=l:

I have lost much of my night vision.
I would love to have 4 or 6 singles of the 6 LED ones like on his plane down each work bench.
I am sure they are for sale somewhere way below the normally ridiculous aircraft price and they sure are simple to work with.

[birdadly]

Your compliments mean a lot to me, fellas. It helps keep me going to get this finished, so thanks for tagging along for the ride :)

Hey, putting a circle table around that pole really sounds like a nice idea. I'll measure it up tonight and see what kind of space I'd have to move around. It may not be something I do right away, as I don't have much equipment YET. (2 single-stage presses, 1 luber and 1 melting pot) I'm young, I think, still and plan to grow into the space.

geargnasher, I may not attach the bench to the wall right away, hence the back legs. If it needs it to be sturdy, then I'll toss in some screws to the walls for sure. Thanks gang! -Brad

[geargnasher]

You'll grow into it plus about 50% faster than you think!

This bench is only 18-1/2" deep (two 2x10s), and you can see how little space is needed for actual tooling and work. Estimating the space from the photos is hard, but it looks like you could make a bench 4' long and two 2x12's wide (22-1/2"), positioned lengthwise along the axis of the pole and window with the top boards cut out around the pole. That would give you enough room for a $40 Tipton gun vise (a bargain, IMO) and you can fasten the vise down with a couple of screws and work a cleaning rod from either end of the gun with no obstructions. Not being able to do this with my gun room layout was a serious issue to me, but I've cleaned guns all my life with no decent place to do it and I'd rather continue that than have to change calibers on my presses three times a week, especially the progressives. I wanted a gun-cleaning island that was workbench height (about 40" or so) so I could clamp down a rifle and go at the bore and walk all the way around the gun with no obstructions, but had to compromise with the space I had. I can turn the vise at an angle and clean rifle barrels, but it's not ideal. Keep that in mind for the future.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_89094f14e9c3136d4.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3486)

Here's the shot of the gun cleaning bench and you can see the issue with a wall on one end and safe on the other. It's the only thing about the room I'm not 100% happy with, but it was the lesser of all the evils with all my different design layouts.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_89094f14e8b04b3d4.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3481)

Gear

[Silver-Silver]

A little info about the 4x4 legs on the bench. When I was doing my reloading bench research I found someone who used 4x4's and they twisted and split because they normally come from the center of the tree and have more stress in them. It was recommended to use 2x4's instead which I did and am glad I did. I have the legs at 6 feet on center and a 2x4 as the benchtop support like you have drawn. The bench top itself is 2-1/4 thick and doesn't flex when using a progressive press.

Your horizonal 2x4's under the bench are weaker than the support post which is in compression. Just a suggestion forget the 4x4 and go with a 2x4 to save some money and you will still have a bench that is very ridgid.

The reloading room is coming along nicely, keep up the good work.

[geargnasher]

I used untreated, douglas fir 4x4s from Homeless Despot, absolutely no twisting. The pressure-treated stuff will crawl out from under the bench and across the yard of you don't watch out.

Gear

[Ickisrulz]

I used untreated, douglas fir 4x4s from Homeless Despot, absolutely no twisting. The pressure-treated stuff will crawl out from under the bench and across the yard of you don't watch out.

Gear

I've used the same thing on 4 work benches. No twisting and pretty cheap.

[Longwood]

I used untreated, douglas fir 4x4s from Homeless Despot, absolutely no twisting. The pressure-treated stuff will crawl out from under the bench and across the yard of you don't watch out.

Gear

It does not have to be pressure treated to wander.
I bought some pine two by three's there for a tree house, but could not get to work on it for three days. I took 31 back out of 40.

I worked in the tool rental room at Home Depot for a few months to buy a new truck.
Since I had easy access to any tool I needed, and was always bored, I volunteered to work on wood projects.
The first time the store manager asked me to build them something, I asked what sheeting to use. Of course he said "The cheap stuff", as I grinned real big, I told him that I was not building a canoe.
He laughed and said to go ahead and pick out what I wanted.
The big regional Honco liked my first project so much that I was working as much as 54 hours a week while most employees were lucky to get over twenty.
One of the guys that was there when I worked there will pre pick me some good wood any time I call him. Very nice indeed.

[geargnasher]

Douglas fir lumber is pink. As long as you don't get yellow pine it should be fine. One of the reasons the lumber I used didn't twist is that none of it wasn't center-cut, it was quarter-sawn. If you can see the core of the tree in the end grain, don't buy it for bench legs. Don't think a double-2x4 won't twist and bow, either!

Gear

[birdadly]

Yikes, now I need to be careful what lumber to buy... so don't get the cheap construction 2x4's I used for my walls, which is probably what I would have done. I'll look for untreated douglas fir, not center cut.

Washed the new tile last night, and will again tonight to make sure it seals okay. Saturday morning I'll be sealing/buffing it. Sunday hopefully I'll get to the can lights. Next week I'll put the trim up and by next weekend I'll be building the bench :)

This is if everything goes as planned :) -Brad

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have used salvaged 3x3's from Palets distined for the burn barrel.
two company's I have worked for, have 10' sheet steel delivered
on 10'+ palets. many times the 10'+ 3x3's are hardwood...yeah
it's a pain to predrill holes, but talk about strength.
I have used some of these for furnature...and some for fence posts.

I hate to pay good money for lumber, when it can be had for free...plus elbow grease.
Jon

[geargnasher]

Don't worry about it too much, a 30" leg isn't going to make that much difference if it twists a bit. I used the fir primarily for appearance, since I sanded, stained, and varnished everything. The lumber I picked out was perfectly planed and the edges rounded.

Gear

[geargnasher]

Are you finished yet? :kidding:

Gear

[birdadly]

You're killin' me Gear!! Nah, just kidding. I thought the thread slipped down far enough I could wait it out until I have more pics of progress...

After our last few posts, I got 6 can lights put up (4 to go), floor molding on except adjacent to the entry door that isn't in yet... and I decided on a building plan for the bench and bought the lumber. I also bought the entry door.

But, aside from me being slow at all this, on the 10th of April (2 weeks ago) my 77 year old helper (dad) took a fall down his basement steps at home. I'm relieved to say he ended up with no internal organ injuries! He bled a bunch from a cut to the head, has a hairline fracture in his skull, several fractured ribs on his left side, along with a football sized bump/bruise just above his hip on left side as well.

He spent 6 nights in the hospital and now 7 nights so far in a rehab facility. I live 30 minutes from my folks, but both the hospital and rehab center are actually in my city, so I've been visiting him most nights, as my mom visits him during the daytime. He's getting real close to back to normal, but it turns out he was more fragile than he expected at that age. He's one of the old buggers that will come in from his workshop and not even know he's bleeding until my mom tells him :)

Soon though, I'll turn that pile of 2x4's into a bench!!! I'm really looking forward to getting it up and running, and showing it to you guys! Thanks for the nudge Gear, it does me good! -Brad

[slim400]

Just wondering how the reloading room was coming

[geargnasher]

Man, sorry to hear about all of that, I shouldn't have asked! Here's to wishing your Dad a complete recovery, and I hope one day I have a child that would visit me every day if I were in his shoes when I'm old. I was just giving you a "hard time" because you're in the home stretch, now, most of the tough, PITA work is over and when time allows you can really enjoy the more fun aspect of your project.

Take care,

Gear

[birdadly]

Don't be sorry Gear! I like the enthusiasm and I need it for a kick in the pants! I was able to get started on the bench; here's a pic of the top "ladder". I hope I can keep finding a little bit of time in the evenings to piece it together! You're right... I'm getting close!

Dad is fine. He's getting grumpier and grumpier. He keeps wanting to do everything on his own, but he can barely stand up by himself. He's getting there though, just needs rest. The only unfortunate thing is that he's not well enough to do so at home.

You can see 2 can lights in the ceiling. I want to put another 4 over in the bench area, along with the hanging flourescents. Anyway, here's a pic :) --Brad

[slim400]

I was reading your post about your father today I wouldn't write the old man off while I am 25 years his younger had a recent experience about a year and a half ago where my children are called and told I was not going to survive the day cannot count the times the doctors told me I was going to live six months and with a pacemaker installed and the right medication I feel well enough to start a new business venture I expect your father will be up in helping you in no time they do tend to be a little tough as they get older my father is 71 and still runs our family tree trimming business I did finally get him to hire a helper so he did not have to do all the five physical lifting hope you the best and your family will be watching for your post on both your dad can be reloading room don't feel bad I built a 16 x 20 2 story minibarn have my reloading equipment in the top and my casting equipment in the bottom and told the wife and kids it's not their catchall if you understand what I mean

Hope you the very best
slim 400

[geargnasher]

Lookin' good there, only problem is you'll have to figure out how to get it lifted, supported, adjusted for level, the legs attached, and the whole thing screwed to the wall by yourself. I employed my wife for about five minutes to help me with mine. I cut all the legs about 1/4" shorter than I thought they should be to give me plenty adjustment room when fiddling with level adjustments in two directions and not have to worry about them sticking up above the "ladder" when I got them just right. My floor isn't perfectly flat. I'd fire the concrete contracter, but he was a younger me so I'd better just not worry too much about it.:D

Some prop boards to lean against the back wall help a bunch while you're making slight level adjustments from the ends to the corner.

Gear

[birdadly]

Hey Slim thanks for the kind words and for sharing your story. He's not written off by any means. It's just a bummer seeing a guy that keeps busy all day long, have to sit/lay around to recoup. It's tough with the fractured ribs, but the last couple days he's been walking (with a walker) quite well. A few more days like that and I'm sure he'll be home.

I should have described better, the ladder is in 2 parts. After that picture, I started putting legs on the far ladder. I'm going to get as much done with it upside down, then flip it. Then do the same to the left ladder, flip it, and then connect the 2 as one.

I'm sure my floor is not level either, so I'll have to figure out how I'm going to level things up. Maybe I should have checked that before making the legs, in case it's a huge swing from one end to the other. Rather than shimming, I could have made the legs longer/shorter?

And the door on the sawhorses on the left of the pic, that is 1 of 4, which will be the bench top. They're 36", but I think I'm going to cut down to 30". -Brad

[geargnasher]

I'd just "tack" the front legs on with screws, get it set up and screwed to the wall so it's level end-to-end, then you can adjust by backing out the screws and moving the front edge up or down to level front/back That's how I did mine, anyway. Clamps help a lot, too.

I see you have a Ryobi drill there. If you haven't ponied up the $70 for the 1/4" impact driver that takes the same old yellow/black batteries, you should look into it. I have two of them and they have absolutely saved my hands, wrists, and elbows on the close to 200lbs of framing screws I've put in my house, not to mention over 150 lbs of drywall and sheathing screws. I can run a 4" deck screw into solid wood all the way with only enough down pressure to keep the bit in the head and there is zero felt torque. They are a godsend for putting together things out of dimensional lumber.

Gear

[birdadly]

Now I'm in business!! Had a good night tonight. Both benches are 10-footers. I'm sure they could have been thought out better, especially where they meet, but alas, this is what I have. They seem very sturdy and I assume with the weight of the benchtop and all my goodies, it'll be real nice.

I ended up going all 2x4's. The legs are doubled up, one going to the inside of the top "ladder" and one under it for extra support. I don't think I did the shelf the best way possible either, but again, I believe it will work.

I think it's kind of laughable, but in the pic you can see the middle legs not even touching the floor! All the legs are identical, but I assume my floor has quite a dip in it... again, hopefully it'll all settle once the top gets on and I level things up (which it's not too bad as it stands).

Hmm, looking over the closeup pic, I think I'm going to add a 2x4 below the very left, front of the shelf, to the floor. The back of the shelf is resting on a 12" stud on all 3 legs, so adding 12" studs to the front will add nice support.

gear: I don't have the impact driver, nope. 6 years ago this Ryobi set of tools was a house-warming gift from my folks... it hadn't got much use up until now!! -Brad

PS: Obviously, I finally decided to go with a taller bench. I just didn't feel comfortable making it a low table. And I figure worst case scenario (it'd be some work, but) I can always tip them over and cut up to 12" off the legs. Hopefully I'll like it like this though.

[geargnasher]

Hey, you're building this for you, not me! I was only sharing my thoughts on the low/shallow benches because of my own needs. It was very weird at first to walk in the gun room and see how low everything was, just didn't seem right somehow, but it didn't take long to re-affirm that I'd made the right choice when I drag in there dog-tired and aching to piddle around and not have to perch on a stool. I do miss the under-bench storage, though.

I wish you'd quit beating up on youself, you've taken a rough space and put together a very nice looking room, you should be proud of yourself.

As far as the legs dangling, that's what I meant about sort of building the benches in place: Once you get the "hangar strip" at the back leveled and screwed to the wall (or the back legs in place if you aren't attaching it), then you can level front-to-back and screw each leg in place at the correct length, then cut the front leg board to fill the gap once you have the measurement. It's not too late to back out some screws and drop the "short" legs down to the floor and reattach them (I think!), or you can simply buy a couple of packs of those plastic shims for door casings and just shim the difference, no big deal. Having a "swag" in the top or a bench that bounces or flexes is a real pain, though. I do like the bottom shelf, the "engineering" looks just fine to me, I don't know you would have done it better without some fancy notching.

One detail I forgot to mention is Liquid Nails. A few years ago when I was building benches for my shop, a buddy of mine who's a contractor stopped by and saw what I was doing, then turned on his heel and went back to his truck and rumaged around in one of his toolboxes for a minute. When he returned he had a caulk gun and a couple of tubes of Liquid Nails and told me to use it on every joint. He was right, those benches are rock-solid. The adhesive takes that last little bit of flex out of every joint and makes a world of difference. When I built all the "furniture" for my new gun room I glued all the frame and leg joints, and didn't need any braces at all.

I still think that pole needs to be polished to a mirror shine....[smilie=1:

Anyway, lookin' good man. I can't wait to see how it all looks with tops on and your equipment starting to be moved in, dontcha love it when a plan starts to come together?

Gear

[Longwood]

I still think that pole needs to be polished to a mirror shine....[smilie=1:


Gear

Some colored lights, a smoke generator, keg cooler,,,,:drinks::bigsmyl2:

[birdadly]

Gettin' there! No lights or smoke yet tho... but I'm getting close to being able to move my press!

I salvaged these 2 cabinets from a Habitat for Humanity ReStore; I don't know if they'll work well, but I am going to try them out. That's also where the doors for the benchtop came from (I like that place!). I lined the bottom and back of the cabinets with felt to stop scratches. The benchtop I used "L" brackets underneath to attach it to the frame.

So far so good :) -Brad