Encore thinking conical

[subsonic]

So after my post about being disgusted with poor QC on sabots and gerally wantin to make as much of the stuff I shoot as possible, I started lookin hard at conicals.

The 370gr maxi ball gets high ratings for accuracy, but there are saeco, t/c (various vendors and materials) and Lyman versions, and my research leads me down a road of maybees as far as actual dimensions of boolits from each mold. Also find a lot of deer that got away stories with this boolit for some reason.

I slugged my Encore Endeavor barrel and come up with a land dimension of .501" and groove of .5105", give or take a .0005"

Now let me be clear that shooting a 400+gr boolit over as much powder as the measure holds is not what I want to do. I am not a recoil wimp, but I'm not lookin for a butt whoopin either.

My goal first and foremost is dead deer. To get there I want accuracy, a point blank hold inside of 100yds (no rainbows), and good terminal performance when the lead meets the meat. No compromises here really.

I like the UC short, but good luck finding a mold. There are some other t/c molds out there besides the 370 maxi, such as the 350 maxi-hunter, but reviews on that one are poor accuracy.

So now I'm wondering if I can't just use a .500s&w mold - except there aren't many choices, and none that I like.

There are some ML molds shown on accurate's website, but i'm not sure about them because they lack a lot of info.

Anybody else in the same boat? Is there a group buy mold I don't know about that would fill the bill?

If I can stay under 400gr, I'd like to.

[jeepman133]

The T/C rifles are not the best big lead conical shooting rifles due to the deep QLA on the end of the barrel. if you want to try a full bore lead conical, the 1:28 likes a heavy one 445-500 gr. another alternative is either a Thor or FPB full bore bullet, which T/C's seem to shoot better. i don't know what problems you were having with sabots, but T/C rifles normally shoot them accurately. good luck..

[subsonic]

Just took the plunge and ordered up 51-460M after re-reading my 1:28 thread where UC says that's the UC Short. I should have a single cav .502" here before I know it!
I went .502" because I can always size down to .501", but I can't make them grow if they cas too loose to stay put in the bore for hunting. And I'm not afraid of a short starter...

[subsonic]

How does the QLA cause trouble with conicals?

[jeepman133]

Just took the plunge and ordered up 51-460M after re-reading my 1:28 thread where UC says that's the UC Short. I should have a single cav .502" here before I know it!
I went .502" because I can always size down to .501", but I can't make them grow if they cas too loose to stay put in the bore for hunting. And I'm not afraid of a short starter...Your right always better to be a bit over. My knight 1:28 shoots the NE 460 gr( slip fit) lights out with 75 gr Pyrodex. hope you can get that 460 gr conical to shoot in that T/C. good luck

[Underclocked]

A QLA section (by whatever name) can do NOTHING to enhance accuracy of a bullet coming out of the bore. It can easily do a lot of damage accuracy-wise if it is imperfectly done (not in alignment with the bore and properly centered). You may be lucky and have an Encore barrel that has a very well done QLA and be able to shoot conicals accurately. I wish that you had tried some store bought conicals first to see if your rifle is going to shoot them well enough to invest in a quality mold. Let's hope it will.

In any case, you will be able to make a bullet that WILL work just fine in a lot of 1:24 to 1:32 twist barrels.

[subsonic]

Mold is already bought. To me, buying store bought would be a waste of time and money. If these UC shorts don't shoot, it is likely the store bought would not have either. And my goal is to not shoot store bought. I am pretty sure I could sell this mold for what I paid minus the cost of a box of boolits, if it doesn't work out.

[subsonic]

Oh, and the QLA section COULD be cut off and barrel re-crowned.

Any tips on getting these things into the barrel straight?

[Underclocked]

If they are sized properly, getting them into the bore will be a simple matter of thumb pressure so there should not be much issue with alignment.

Have you given any thought to overpowder wads? Might be nice to have a few so you could try with/without and see if there is any noticeable difference in accuracy. I often use WAD-510A from Track of the Wolf.

I did have one Encore barrel cut and re-crowned back when my gunsmith friend was still with us. I didn't really care for the target crown he put on so I re-did it with a 99 cent grinding ball. :) Rifle was a real tack driver afterward - both conicals and sabot'd loads.

http://home.mchsi.com/~rltsr/Crown.jpg

[jeepman133]

UC, pretty much has it covered as far as QLA's are concerned. you slugged the barrel. so a sized bullet slightly over that will give you a nice slip fit and stay on the powder.. good luck

[zdogk9]

Get the Lee .501/440 mold for the .50 S&W paper patch it, run it through the Lee .501 sizer put it over 80-90 grains of your favorite and you're good to go. Read the 'Paper Patching for the Muzzleloader" thread in the stickies http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=71134

[subsonic]

I'm not interested in paper patching, but thanks. One of the things I'm trying to get away from is having multi-component projectiles.

I will try the wads. I have some good felt and punches. Just need to find a good lube recipe.

[myfriendis410]

I haven't shot conicals in my Omega, but have shot them extensively in trad rifles years ago. I liked the T/C 430 gr. maxi-ball. It's also slightly tapered and will "bump up" under setback. It makes for easy loading and hits hard with pure lead. I liked "wonderlube" for that bullet, but I also used lyman stick lube (pistol?) with good results.

What powder are you planning on using? Black? 777? Something else? If you go to Blackhorn 209 you most likely will have to use a sabot, but it's the best hunting powder out there for the inline.

I played with Hornady XTP pistol bullets using an MMP sabot and got superb accuracy out of 'em. Killed a couple of big hogs at yardage too. I know you want to do it all yourself, but the T/C really is designed for sabots. You could cast your own .430 or .452 out of soft lead in the 250-300 gr. range and sabot that--they aren't particularly expensive. That's what I'd do.

[subsonic]

Thanks for the advice. I have never had what I would call great accuracy shooting anything in a sabot, and think of them a lot like gas checks. An extra hassle and expense I'd like to avoid. I have a few different pistol moulds that are in .44 and .45 and I have tried the better ones with poor accuracy in Harvester sabots. Sick of sabots.

Since they show data for conicals with BH209, I'm planning to try it, but I shoot 777 already. If that's what I end up with it will be cheaper and one less powder to keep on hand.

[subsonic]

I take that back. The BH209 data Doesn't show conicals, but their FAQ says it may work but they cannot recommend it due to variables.

[jeepman133]

Bh 209 will work fine in your rifle with a slip fit conical and a wad/ shot card. both Bh209 and 777 IMHO should be used with a wad/shot always, since both powders are much hotter burning than say real BP or Pyrodex. Bh 209 builds up a bit more pressure than 777 when using a bullet over 300 gr.

[Underclocked]

subsonic, would like to see some pics of bullets dropped from that new mold when you get it. And some range reports. :)

[jeepman133]

subsonic, would like to see some pics of bullets dropped from that new mold when you get it. And some range reports. :) i have seen your slip fit concial shooting, which is outstanding.

[jeepman133]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q62/legginMF1/target/Target-1.jpg UC this was my first time out with my knight wolverine 22" barrel,NEGC peep sight 75 gr RS and a .460 NE conical at 50 yds.all shots not in orange were adjustment shots with the new peep sight. last 2 were touching in the orange..

[subsonic]

subsonic, would like to see some pics of bullets dropped from that new mold when you get it. And some range reports. :)

Of course!

[Underclocked]

Not bad at all, Jeepman. I just can't use iron sights anymore. Have to use optics. Not a real problem since I can use the glass legally and prefer it in any event.

[subsonic]

The 51-460M (marked 502460M) is here. It was in the mailbox when I got home a few minutes ago. Here's a pic for Underclocked:
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/Dennis_Doza/49994d0f.jpg

Will update when I secure some pure to pour into it.

[excess650]

BH209 likes a lot of boolit pull and hot primers. My Omega can shoot one holers at 100 yards with sabots when I'm up to it.! If you''re boolit isn't TIGHT don't bother with BH209!

[jeepman133]

that is a really nice looking mold. can't wait to see some of the boolits:-P

[subsonic]

BH209 likes a lot of boolit pull and hot primers. My Omega can shoot one holers at 100 yards with sabots when I'm up to it.! If you''re boolit isn't TIGHT don't bother with BH209!

Yes it does, and the hot primers help knock the sabot forward and off the powder.

Probably gonna burn 777, but will try the 209 with a wad.

[subsonic]

that is a really nice looking mold. can't wait to see some of the boolits:-P

Yes it is! It was only $78 to my door and you can count the days it took to get from the dates on my posts. Just 6 days!

We will see how it shoots.

[jeepman133]

Yes it is! It was only $78 to my door and you can count the days it took to get from the dates on my posts. Just 6 days!

We will see how it shoots.That's a bargain. did he have one pr made or made only to order.

[subsonic]

Made to order to my diameter.

[Underclocked]

Beautiful mold. His speed is amazing. I'm sure that mold will be around long after my Lee custom has passed into history. Tempted to get one of his myself.

Now get to casting! ;)

[subsonic]

Thermometer said 15 this morning and says 32 now.
Don't feel like putting my coveralls on to cast. Besides, I am still trying to find some pure lead.

I have some lead pipe, car battery cable ends, and some stick-on WW, plus a bunch of of lead out of an x-ray room wall all melted into ingots, but it seems too hard for pure and some of the ingots clink instead of thud, so here I am doubting them. Hope I didn't get some zinc in it from that autozone battery cable end.

What kind of alloys do you like UC? Just pure?

[Underclocked]

As pure as I can manage. The lead pipe should be pretty good but be sure to first melt it outdoors if it has been used. I would first melt it in something like an old pot that could be painlessly thrown away if need be. No telling what is left on the inside of that pipe.

But get over to Herculaneum! ;)

[frontier gander]

Who built that Mold?

[subsonic]

Mold came from here:
http://www.accuratemolds.com/