My new lever gun

[Hubertus]

Today was a good day – I bought a lever gun!

For years I was on the lookout for a good used lever for hunting deer and wild boar. Well I have a nice bolt action in .30-06 which is my main rifle for hunting, but since my hunting mentor gave me a Winchester lever in 22 lr I always wanted a big one, too. Either the funds were not there or the offers were way beyond …[smilie=1:

Actually I was rather looking for a Marlin in 45-70 or 444. They can be had over here although lever guns are rather “exotic” for the hunters in my area. The over the counter price for a new one is pretty steep for the “nice to have” approach.

Now look what crossed my path:

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/IMG00569-20120110-1209.jpg

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/IMG00572-20120110-1210.jpg

She is in very good condition the wood has two little dings and the metal is without any mark. The bore looks like new. I don’t think it has seen a lot of use. Along came 4 boxes of factory ammo 200 grainers and 250 grainers – two boxes of each. That means brass will be there to reload soon…:mrgreen: :Fire:

Before I made an offer to the seller I consulted this forum here, because (please don’t laugh) I never heard of the round before. Reading almost all the posts about it I decided it might be worth a try and she followed me home today. Although the factory ammo will last me a little while I’ll have to make a shopping list:
dies, case trimmer guide, feasible powder and most important a mold and sizer.

Powder wise I would need an all around one suitable for cast boolits as well as the other ones… The fastest rifle powder I have is IMR3031. Well there is a can of AA#9 (there was an interesting thread about WC860 with AA#9 burn rate) – maybe it’s a possibility.

Bullshop has reported some good results with 350 grain boolits. That sounds pretty interesting. Because first the IMR3031 might work well with such a heavy bullet – Lyman 49th says with the 220 Hornady it’ll max around 1700 fps – that is a tad too slow. Because second: regulations call for at least 1450 ft-lbs at 100m to be legal on boar and red deer. To reach that a 250 grain boolit will have to be propelled close to 2000 fps a 220 grainer about 2150 fps.

Ranchdog has load data on his site and the mold looks good, too. I take it it might not be possible to reach that performance without a GC.

There are lots of ideas spooking around in my mind right now and your input is very welcome. I can’t wait to get to the range.

Thank you in advance
Hubertus

To do:
Range test factory ammo
Slug the bore
Check the rifling twist

[williamwaco]

You are NOT going to be dissapointed.
That is a really great cast bullet cartridge.

And that rifle is not too shaby either.
Be sure and slug it before you spend money on sizing dies.



good for you.


.

[felix]

860 is a machine gun powder, in a 220 grain case. You mean 820 is equal to #9. Be careful. ... felix

[Boerrancher]

I am very envious your new acquisition. I have been looking for a 375 winchester or an old 38-55 for years. That is one of the most underrated cartridges around. Back when I didn't know any better I had a chance to buy several and passed it up because I was like everyone else and didn't fully understand the potential of that particular round. Once I had matured a bit I realized how great the 375 was and started looking for one. Congrats on your purchase. It will do you a fine job.

Best wishes,

Joe

[TXGunNut]

Very nice gun, congrats!
I bought one new, not gonna say how long ago but it's an early one. ;) My only load was 38.0 grs RL #7 under a Hornady 220 grain j-bullet. Mine's a 98% gun and I can't see well enough to see the buckhorn sights so she's a safe queen.

[Hubertus]

I am just in from the range.

Well, either I forgot how to shoot, need some more trigger time with this rifle or the factory loading is not what I expect it to be.

A bit of a disappointment the minimal grouping with 5 shots was about 4.5 inches @ 100 m. What do you usually expect/get from your lever?
Unfortunately I made a major mistake: I did not clean the barrel thoroughly (solvent). That's the next task on the list maybe there is some residue which is not discernible by a visual inspection and then back to the range next week.
The scope mount seems to be solid.

Ideas are welcome.

Felix, thank you for your concern. I usually go strictly by the books and never exceed max loadings and when there no proposal I don't use the powder.
I was referring to this thread: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=138015
Tomorrow night I will consult Quickload concerning #9 - if that doesn't look good I will definitely stay away from this test.

Hubertus

[stubshaft]

I bought one of the Big Bore 94's in .375 WW when it first came out. I still can't figure out why it didn't do as well as I thought it should have. That being said it is still one of my favorite lever guns. It has been shaded by my Marlins in 45/70 though.

[TXGunNut]

I don't recall mine being terribly accurate but I do recall the factory loads convinced me to buy a set of dies. Not a big fan of that type of scope mounts but some folks have good luck with them. Saw a box of ammo on a shelf last year for less than $20, when I came back a few weeks later they had two new boxes for about $40. Can only imagine what you're paying for it. I bought it for a brush gun, only recall shooting a doe and a coyote (running) @ 20 yds or so. Pretty awesome performance, IIRC. Destroyed to offside shoulder of the coyote and the old doe dropped in her tracks.

[MtGun44]

First, VERY nice looking gun. The cartridge should do what you need for hunting, very
well.

Leverguns can be problematic on accuracy. Some just shoot great, others want some
tinkering to free up a barrel that is loaded unevenly by a too-tight barrel band or a slightly
misaligned mag tube, or a forend that is jamming hard on one side of the receiver and
bearing unevenly on mag and barrel. A little dissassembly can be useful to troubleshoot.

For instance if it shoots great with no mag tube and no forend with the front edge of the
receiver held in the hand on a bag, then you know that the barrel is fine and you just
need to figure out how to keep the magazine, barrel band and forend from messing up
the barrel's behavior. This is usually some hand work and maybe glassbedding the back
face of the handguard to the receiver, and cutting it so it is loose on the barrel, and maybe
opening up the bottom of the barrel band to let the mag tube be just a bit loose in it.

Bill

[Hubertus]

Thank you for the proposals.
Yes, I will disassemble it and look for tight spots.

It came with the mounts so I first want to try it with them - if I find them to pose any trouble I will replace them. Regarding the available ammo - if I can get it it's at least 50 Euro which is right now somewhere about $64 for a box of 20.

Honestly, if I couldn't reload I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.
But the whole reloading story is a different one ...

Hubertus

[runfiverun]

that ammo is worth about what you paid for the rifle...
once you find a cast load that thing will shoot,please share it...
i would start with the ranch dog mold.
i use the lyman 375449 g/c sized to 379 in my winchester 94 with aa-2230 hopefully the marlin will like the load also cause thats what i am gonna try first.

[Tim357]

Hubertus, off topic, but when I saw your moniker, I remembered that I have a German hunting knife made by Hubertus. Haven't used it in years, but I really like it. Even has a two-tined fork that fits in the sheath.
Weidmannsheil!

Tim sends

[375win]

Excellent rifle !! I'll be taking mine to the range tomorrow for some exercise.

For ammo, I use the 220-gr Hornady bullet, with 36.0 gr of Reloder-7 powder. This gives around 2,000 fps. Very accurate in both my Win BigBore94 and my Marlin 375.
I had done a loading with 36.5 grains, but preferred the slightly milder load.

Cheers,

Carl

[Hubertus]

that ammo is worth about what you paid for the rifle...
once you find a cast load that thing will shoot,please share it...
i would start with the ranch dog mold.
i use the lyman 375449 g/c sized to 379 in my winchester 94 with aa-2230 hopefully the marlin will like the load also cause thats what i am gonna try first.

That's what I thought, too. So it was really nice of the seller, he added two of the boxes just because - a really nice guy.
I plan to buy a ranch dog mold, will be traveling to the U.S. the week after next and plan to shop around a little bit to get the necessities for the new toy.
Runfiverun, do you know whether the BACO cam lock mold handles fit the ranch dog molds? The only thing I couldn't find though was gas checks. I tried all the online stores I know, but they all seem to be out of such an "odd ball" GC. Blammer doesn't have any listed in the group buy neither.

Tim357, nice knife - I'd like to see a picture, if you don't mind. You gotta take it out hunting :mrgreen:

375win, :mrgreen: the right name for the thread, good luck at the range and post some results please.

runfive and 375 thanks for the powder proposals, too. I don't want to wine but I have to really see what I can get over here and I have to watch my max. store limit, too. But looking at the powder I have, most probably I will have to buy a quicker one to get the velocity I need.
I will see what the stores have in stock - no mail order for propellants over here.
Yesterday I ran some calculations with Quickload. Earlier I was writing about AA#9 that I have (use it for the 357Sig) according to burn rate it's close to SR4759 which is an all time favorite for strait wall boolit loads. Again with the pressure to about 40 K PSI one might be able to yield pretty decent velocity.

I don't know yet, whether I'll try it or not. For a first check it doesn't look too bad.
But rather safe than sorry.

Hubertus

[EDK]

The RANCH DOG six cavity moulds are made for LEE handles...MIHEC and Red River Rick both make handles for LEEs.

If you can't get gas checks, depending on amount of powder in the case, you might be able to use a fiber wad between the powder and boolit like the black powder cartridge rifle shooters do. BUFFALO ARMS should have the die set to make your own wads if you can't buy some.

:redneck::cbpour:

[izzyjoe]

very good score, that is a fine rifle, and a very usefull caliber. i have a friend that used to hunt with a cut down marlin in 38-55, his thoughts where that it is the perfect caliber for deer in brush and thick woods. like he say's it just takes the leg's out from under them.

[375win]

A great levergun day at the range.

Set the target and a bowling pin at 100 yards. Used my standard ammo: Hornady 220's and 36.0 gr of Reloder 7.

The Marlin 375 got the bulk of the exercise since it is my favorite, 60 shots. I use a Leupold VX-III 2.5-8x36. Generally tight groups, depending on how carefully I did my benchrest shooting. Lots of shots touching, some 3- & 4-shot ragged holes. Moved the bowling pin all over the place !!

The Win BigBore94 .375 didn't get much exercise, 20 shots. I blame the scope, it's a piece of junk. I'm fed up with it, going to replace it. But I like shooting the Win. What a great super smooth action, no problem or hangup getting the cartridge into the chamber, Winchester really did it right.

Also shot 150 rds of .45LC through the Winchester Trapper. And 80 rounds through a (oh no) Rem 700 bolt action.

Cheers,

Carl

[wtfooptimax200]

Congrats on a nice gun, I'm a bit jealous.

[Tim357]

Hubertus, as soon as I can figure out how to post a pic from an iPad, I'll send ya one.
Tim sends

[Hubertus]

Tim,

I use photobucket. They have an app you can install for uploading pics to their website and then you just paste the proper link into your post.

[Hubertus]

Today was the last day of the roe deer doe/fawn season over here.
The weather was perfect about 20 °F a little foggy, but the sun won.
Of course the new gun had to come with me – I checked it again at shorter distance and decided the grouping with the factory 200 gr. should be usable out to 60 yards.

Got up at 5 am, in the stand 5:30.
There was a boar behind the stand I could hear it but couldn’t see.

Well about 7:15 am a little fawn came all alone no doe or siblings in sight.
After 30 minutes watching it - still no family.

So finally I decided to take it and “Wilma” (she’s baptized now) did a good job.
I am a believer in the caliber now. Although a roe deer fawn is really small and one bagged deer doesn’t make a reputation, still it was pretty impressive.
The fawn literally jumped up with all fours and did a near 360° flip sideways.
Shot distance was 55 paces. One hair in the soup though: the factory soft point was really devastating - the offside rib bow was all blue (blood shot).
Now it’s time to get the mould and see whether a boolit can do better and leave some more meet in tact.´

Hubertus

Almost forgot the pic:
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/win%20BB/IMG00588-20120115-0800.jpg

[JFE]

You've got yourself a nice rifle and good to see you've blooded the rifle already.

FYI the rifle you have is not a common variation. From what I gather, only a few thousand 375's were made in the AE version. They have a heavier profile barrel and are noticeably heavier compared to the earlier and more plentiful top eject 94BB's in 375. Anyhow, you have yourself a nice rifle.

Its an easy calibre to load for and if you have trouble finding cases, you can open up 30/30 cases to fit, though they will be about 1mm short. New 30/30 cases work best, though used cases also work if you anneal them. You can also use 38/55 brass without trimming.

The best powders for full power loads that I've found locally are Reloader 7 and AR-2207 (H-4198).

[azhunter12]

Very nice gun. Makes me tempted to break away from Marlins and try out a Winny.

[TXGunNut]

Nice kill, nice rifle. Now please put it away before I bring my safe queen out of retirement!:kidding:

[shdwlkr]

Hubertus

First factory barrels are known to heat up rather quickly and throwing the last one or two rounds all over the place. That is the biggest issue I have seen with this caliber.
I have two a factory one that seems almost brand new and one that needed a lot of help so I rebarreled it with a 26 octagon barrel, full mag tube, new wood and I like it a lot. I have not had it out in a while because I can not find my mold to cast bullets for it. Divorce has a way of making known things just disappear from site.

[Hubertus]

TXGunNut, I'm afraid I'll have to tease a little more :bigsmyl2:
You know what it's like with a new toy.

shdwlkr, I was thinking about the warmed barrel and actually expecting the later shots to go high, what bothered me was, I couldn't see that behavior.
I'll just have to do some more testing, after I check the forearm.

Hubertus

[shdwlkr]

Hubertus
I mentioned that because Ken Waters found this to be true and I found it to be true with my factory 20 inch round barrel. It is possible things changed some when they went to the angle eject of the later models.
I can tell you from memory that my 26 inch .375 is so much fun to shoot and I like it much better too just might have to buy another barrel for my almost new one and make them both 26 inch barrels. Yes it does add to the weight but you know something I like heavy firearms it is what I learned to shoot with many decades ago.
Yes I like black powder shooting too again long barrels heavy firearms.

[TXGunNut]

Tease ahead, my friend!:drinks: You've got a fine gun there. One reason I bought mine was that it was slicker than any other new 94 I picked up at the time, most I've picked up I've been able to cycle and found them to be the similar. I think they tried a little harder on those Big Bores and it shows.

[foxtrapper]

860 is a machine gun powder, in a 220 grain case. You mean 820 is equal to #9. Be careful. ... felix

http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html

[Hubertus]

felix and foxtrapper,

thanks again.
It's alwyas good to read the forum here.
Caring nice people and lots of information.


Thank you Hubertus

[GunnyJohn]

Nice Winchester, I have a 375 Marlin, and load 220 grain hornady's in front of 38 grains of H-4895. I've taken several deer both white tails and muleys with it. Works well. I too am looking to shoot cast in it. Mid South Shooters Supply has gas checks in stock $28.86 per 1000. I've had problems with cast in my marlin, and am going to try Ranch Dogs in it. He uses them and they seem to work fine. Have fun with the new rifle.

[Hubertus]

Hey GunnyJohn,

Thanks for letting me know. I found some checks at an online auction over here.
The price was a bit over the MS price but compared to the standard store price acceptable. Can you imagine a box of 1000 costs about $57 :roll: over here.
I am looking forward to my Ranch Dog mold he is going to make a special config for me. In addition I will buy an accurate mold that will throw a heavy boolit. That should get me started. But unfortunately if the weather stays like it is right now I might have to get a box of the 220 FP for the first reloads.

Good luck with your Marlin and let us know how the casting and shooting goes!

Hubertus