Hunters, where do you aim? Head or heart? [Archive]

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

01-10-2012, 04:08 PM

Just an Ol'Coot's opinion, but ------------

Head shots, "IF" properly made are effective, however there are just to many posibilities of an injured animal that gets away to die a slow death.

As already said, the head is small and the first part of the critter to move and move quickly. All in all, a poor choice considering the wellfair of the animal.

Lung shots - behind the shoulders - are, whenever possible, the better choice. VERY little wasted meat and the largest portion of the "kill zone" with the least meat damage.

You may hit the heart with this shot, but a double lung shot is very quick and effective even if the heart is not hit.

You can hit high in the kill zone, or low and the effect is the same. Dead Critter!

If we are talking critters that offer the possibility of biting back, break em down! Other then that, the above info applies.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

quilbilly

01-10-2012, 04:43 PM

The only time I take a head shot on a deer or elk is if that is all I can see clearly, it is the only one I think I will get, and it is within 40 yards. Otherwise, heart lung shots are the best.

waksupi

01-10-2012, 05:22 PM

I consider a head shot irresponsible. As was mentioned, too many opportunities to wound and not kill. I've seen too many deer with a jaw shot off, or a hole through the wind pipe.

Blammer

01-10-2012, 05:30 PM

I shoot whatever part of the animal presents itself that I feel comfortable and confident enought to place the bullet where it needs to go to effectively kill my quarry.

Head, neck, heart, lungs, whatever it takes to get my deer.

Suo Gan

01-10-2012, 05:36 PM

Texas heart shots here, with my super hard cast, 600 grain sodbuster granite slammers with carbide serrated hollowpoints. Even when I miss the deer faint dead away, or die from the wind as it passes by. I have a buddy that just eats chili when hunting. I have a theory he is trying to gas deer and save ammo. :D

hamour

01-10-2012, 06:50 PM

I am with Blammer! What ever is the best shot for the situation. My prefered shot is a sholder shot. If at an extreme angle I want the bullet to exit or enter where the neck meets the shoulder. This is a devestating raking shot.

white eagle

01-10-2012, 07:08 PM

JeffinNZ

01-10-2012, 08:51 PM

When I get onto a deer I'll tell you. [sigh]

I used to exclusively head shoot bunnies with my .22RF but that was when I was single and used to hunt LOTS. A bit rusty these days and chest shots suffice.

Cornfused

01-10-2012, 08:54 PM

Well, Karen, you have sure gotten a range of views with a simple question. The answers you've gotten reveal more of the responders than perhaps they are always aware of.

1. I assume as a 'given' that none of us are sadistic monsters who want to inflict unnecessary pain on an animal.

For small game such as squirrels or rabbits, with a rifle, the power of the weapon, even a solid point .22 rimfire, is so great relative to the animal, and ranges are so close, head shots are far and away the best way to efficiently kill the animal while minimizing wasted meat. None of us dispute that, I believe.

Problems arise with larger animals at longer ranges. Under these circumstances, animal movements become so unpredictable that head shots are no longer wise, in my opinion.
Please remember, #1 above. I am trying to kill the animal as humanely as possible, and shooting off the nose or jaw of a deer isn't very humane, to my view. The little wasted meat in the ribs of a lung shot is insignificant, death is sure.
The 'bottom line' - I'm not starving to death, if I turn down a borderline lung shot and lose the opportunity to get the pig, elk or whatever, the world will not end, my ego will not be destroyed.

smoked turkey

01-10-2012, 09:17 PM

This pertains to larger animals such as deer or elk. I've never had the opportunity to hunt for or shoot a bear, so I can't say about that. If the main idea is to bring the critter down and to kill as humanely as possible, a shoulder shot will do it. As CDOC said break em down. If meat preservation is also wanted I avoid a direct shoulder shot. Rather I shoot for just behind the shoulder roughly half way up the body. If all goes right this will result in a heart/lung shot that will do the trick every time. If the shot goes a little low the animal is down but the result is not what we want in a quick and humane kill. I wish I didn't know first hand about those things, but as has been mentioned things don't always go as planned. That is why most here are advocating the larger target of the shoulder or heart/lung area. On small game such as rabbits and squirrel, head shot only since the amount of eatible meat is small anyway.

garbear

01-10-2012, 09:17 PM

I aim for center mass. lunng heart area. Head too much chance of wounding. If I am not comfortable with the shot. I don't take the shot. Those times I admire the animal and figure better luck next time
Garbear

luna butte

01-10-2012, 09:22 PM

my far and away most favorite shot to take is at the neck. very little if any useable meat is wasted and i have never seen one run off when hit in the neck even if the spine is missed. seems to me that there is enough shock transfered to spine that ol' brutus goes down right now.

admittedly i have never seen one take a grazing/glancing shot though.

nanuk

01-10-2012, 09:35 PM

I aim for the center of the lungs

biggest target, kills them quickly and allows some leeway for less than Laser accuracy.

about 1-2 inches above and behind the "Elbow"

as for bullets bouncing off skulls, a guide in Churchill has had a 30-30 bullet glance off the skull of a P-bear at spitting range. Killed it later with a 7mm. Found the mark left by the 30-30... took the hair off, didn't break the skin.

also, the buffalo rancher I bale for had one bull that took 8 shots in the head to little effect, the 9th one centered the brain. He said you could cover all the shots with a ball cap. (he hires a shooter. doubt he'll hire that one again)

badbob454

01-10-2012, 10:00 PM

shoot what you know you can hit , if you know for a certainty you will hit the head or neck
(spine or brain) then ok ..... if you are not sure of your skills? go for the heart lung area

upr45

01-10-2012, 10:02 PM

I was taught to make the best shot I was capable of making. With a very heavy preference going to a central nervous system forward of the front legs. I am familiar with all of my rifles. As bullet casters most here are also very competent shooters. Do not ever take a shot you don't feel capable of making. Also do not ever make an animal suffer more than necessary.

roverboy

01-10-2012, 10:10 PM

I usually aim for the shoulder or right behind it. I've killed 2 with neck shots and one in the noggin.

MT Gianni

01-10-2012, 10:12 PM

I try to break the off shoulder. This will pass through the lungs and top of the heart.

LEADHOPPER

01-10-2012, 10:24 PM

I was taught to shot deer high in the should, that way if you hit low you still get a heart, lung shot. But if you hit right on you drop the deer in it's tracks as you break the back. Have had to shot a couple twice doing this, but it's a lot better then tracking deer in the dark.

725

01-10-2012, 10:32 PM

The head moves too much for it to be a responsible target while hunting. Just a twitch that makes the animal turn it's head will change the brain's location as a target. Way too many crippled animals have to wander around in pain waiting to die because of some hunter's ego. The vitals, ie heart/lung/liver, provide not only a larger sure kill shot, but a more stable target by far. Takes much more to move the entire body out of the target area than it takes to swivel the head out of the target area. Do the right thing by the animal.

Mumblypeg

01-10-2012, 10:32 PM

I prefer neck shots. Interupt the central nervous system and they will be laying where they were standing. I don't like to waist time tracking deer. I don't take shots I'm not sure I can make. That's deer, on small game I go for the head if I'm using a rifle. And then some if a shotgun. However, I'm not above shootin a critter anywhere if he is about to do me harm, man or beast.

flounderman

01-10-2012, 10:33 PM

nobody votes for neck shots. given the opportunity, I shoot in the neck. doesn't waste meat, animal drops, lot cleaner when it comes to dressing it. furbearers are easier to skin when shot in the neck. granted, if a world class animal was standing 200 yards away, I might cheat a little and aim for a shoulder. an eating animal, neck in front of the shoulder. the ribs are the best part.

TXGunNut

01-10-2012, 10:39 PM

I go for the heart, actually hit it quite often. Never been successful with a head shot but only big game attempt was a big hog between the eyes at about 10 yds. Bone there is quite heavy and slanted like the windshield of a Camaro. I was locked into a sitting position when he came out of the brush unexpectedly and locked onto me and the guide. Bullet (165 gr j in a 30-06) failed but hog ran off.

**oneshot**

01-10-2012, 10:48 PM

small game ---- head shots or no shot
Deer ----- base of the neck where it meets the shoulder, if quartering away Boiler room.

lead chucker

01-11-2012, 01:10 AM

I agree with Blammer I think he said it all.

303Guy

01-11-2012, 03:21 AM

Cornfused [/B]says it!
1. I assume as a 'given' that none of us are sadistic monsters who want to inflict unnecessary pain on an animal.Unfortunately I am guilty causing suffering - unintentional but suffering just the same!:cry:

nobody votes for neck shots.Not true. You must have posted just after Mumblypeg!

I would like to learn more about neck shots. Those who use them claim good success. As for me, I just can't bring myself to test it on live targets. I know about jaw shots - only once on a sideways facing hare and I did hunt it down and find it and finish it. But the memory lingers. I've seen a close up head shot rabbit go down only to jump up and run away as we approached it! That one was not jaw shot. It must have taken a knockout blow to the top of the skull. We'll get that one next time out!

Rabbits and hares hold their heads pretty steady. Even so, only head on or head away head shots. The shoulders don't have much meat anyway. As for shooting at the headlights, well I've seen a few possum headlights and taken the shot only to have one headlight reappear! Doesn't mean I won't do it again but it is a consideration.

I used to shoot rats by the hundreds with an air rifle and learned what kills and what doesn't. Rats have huge stomach's and move a lot. It all came back to what my mentors had told me about game animals.

44 flattop

01-11-2012, 03:35 AM

40 years ago my Father in law taught me a valuable lesson (this is the guy I bugled in his 56 bull elk for!) when I was talking about what shot to take.

He said shoot at a big game animals head and chances are you'll blow his jaw off and he'll run off and die a miserable death. Try and shoot him in the neck and you better know exactly where the spine is or he'll run off to die a miserable death. But he said, nothing but NOTHING can breathe blood.

So for 40 years I've shot 'em behind the shoulder aiming for the off side shoulder. And out of more than just a few hundred deer, elk and bear, I've never lost one.

44

btroj

01-11-2012, 04:14 AM

I try to break the off shoulder. This will pass through the lungs and top of the heart.

Exactly my way of looking at things on deer or bears.

Squirrels I like head shots.

This is a question where every hunter needs to decide what is within there view of ethics and go from there.

NickSS

01-11-2012, 07:12 AM

I generally aim for the hart lung area for big game as that gives me the best chance of a clean kill with margin for miss estimated range or minor deflection of the shot due to brush in the path of the bullet. On dangerous game I always aim for the shoulder to break the animal down quickly. That is for self preservation if nothing else. I have shot deer, elk and caribou in the head or neck but they were the only area exposed to the shot and the range relatively close. I also killed one elk with a full length shot from stern to front but I was shooting a gun that I was confident had sufficient penetration to do the job.

DragoonDrake

01-11-2012, 08:01 AM

I shoot every animal the same. I shoot for the heart. I don't care how big or small it is. I use solid 22 rf or a 17 cal pellet rifle for rabbit, squirrel, ground hog, and raccoon. 12 ga, crossbow, longbow, 44 mag, and 454 on deer. Can I hit an animal in the head with anyone of the above firearms, not a doubt; but I will never take the chance of wounding an animal.

God lets us harvest these living creatures for our consumption, so they do not have to suffer the life of penned and "farmed" animals. This may seem like an oxymoron, but treat them with the respect that they deserve. Be humane and be ethical.

pmer

01-11-2012, 09:49 AM

I used a 243 and neck shot quite a few deer with it. One of the last times I used it was for a frontal neck shot under the chin. The bullet had jacket seperation and the whole left side of the neck was blood shot.

Since then I switched to bigger calibers and boiler room shots.

runfiverun

01-11-2012, 10:03 AM

it depends on the shot presented,and which gun i am using.
many times no matter which way the animal is facing i plain don't have the shot,or the gun don't have the range to make the shot with.
last year it was two head shots and one spine/neck junction shot made in the family during the deer season.
those were the shots that were presented in the thick brush where the deer were found.
one of those shots was the only jaxketed bullet i pulled the trigger on all year long [hunting situation]

41mag

01-11-2012, 08:02 PM

Honestly I have actually lost several deer using the shoulder shot. While this did upset me tremendously, it was also a learning experience. I learned that sometimes, some deer are simply tenacious in their will to live. while I have only started to shoot and hunt with cast boolits in earnest this past year. I have been hunting for over 40yrs.

In all those years the dozen or so deer heads I settled my cross hairs on all hit the dirt DRT on the spot. The ranges varied from a few yards to out past 200, but in all cases the deer was completely settled, and no wind what so ever was blowing. I had a good solid rest and plenty of time to watch and prepare for the shots.

Most every other deer I have shot have been with one form or fashion, through the boiler works. this included the nice 6 point I shot twice with a rifle and finished off with my 454 this past season. I cannot claim bullet failure nor lack of caliber with the .243, as both shots went in right behind the shoulder, one exited the offside, and the other lodged in the offside back strap after a quick shot on him while he was getting to his feet. Two hours later the 454 finished him for good. This was one of the tenacious ones for sure.

I hunt for both pleasure and food, and when it comes to game I feel it is VERY important to put them down as quickly and effectively as possible. Hogs on the other hand in my minds eye do not qualify as game, and I shoot for mass and if a finishing shot is needed so be it. If I have the opportunity for a head shot I go for it, I have not had but one that has run after the hammer has fallen. That one I can say was due to lack of penetration from the Rem Golden Saber, in fact both of them. The hog was recovered and neither of the bullet penetrated his skull from shot at ranges of less than 20yds. Big tough boar hog. Learned about Golden Sabers that day and haven't had an incident like it since.

The vast majority of deer I shoot are dropped usually in their track with a shoulder shot which is either in front of on the onside and out behind the offside, or vice versa. I have found this shot wreaks havok on their nervous system as well as taking out at least part of the heart and lungs usually with the bullet or with fragments of bone as it goes through. Everything is concentrated right in that area between their shoulders and IF they stay on their feet they usually don't stay there long.

Gee_Wizz01

01-11-2012, 08:38 PM

For deer I generally shoot just behind the shoulder, except for does, I usually use the neck shot. The behind the shoulder shot gives me the largest target in my opinion. Back in my late teens I would use the spine shot on deer out to 200yds. I aimed a few inches aft of the point of the shoulder, about 3" below the top of the back. The deer would just drop and never twitch. The neck shot on does is very effective and ruins little meat. For Hogs, I generally shoot for the shoulder if they are over 150lbs, I want them on the ground now. Smaller pigs I usually shoot for the heart lungs. If they are facing me, they get it between the eyes. I never take the butt shot. I only made two head shots, the first one dropped a large doe like she was hit by a thunderbolt. The second was a small 6 pointer and I aimed for the brain, but the deer turned his head an instant before the shot and I shot his jaw off and part of his nose. We chased the deer for almost 8 hours before he died. I couldn't hunt for about 2 years afterwards.

G

jaydub in wi

01-12-2012, 02:14 AM

mud lake

01-12-2012, 04:41 AM

When I hunted moose I shot for the heart/lungs. Killed 'em but they often walked off a bit before laying down. For Bear I always tried to break their front shoulder to put them down, then a shot in the head or neck.
I once shot a hare that was facing me and eating grass about 40 feet away. I was standing on a porch and was high enough to get a solid bead on it's neck as it's head was bent down eating. My shot killed it so clean that it did not move a muscle, didn't twitch..! I though I missed! The classic medula oblongata "switch" that is instant death when severed. I have often wished all my hunting had been such clean kills!

blaster

01-12-2012, 06:12 PM

I usually go for a gut shot. That way the critter runs off and you don't have to mess with dragging it home or skinning it.:kidding:

Wolfer

01-12-2012, 08:19 PM

Hunting is a lot like life,sometimes you have to play the cards your delt. So in the past I have taken whatever shot they presented if I was confident I could make it.
That being said I always take the shoulder/ lung shot if given a chance. I tend to hunt with plenty of gun and I consider a double lung shot to be absolutely sure. The few times I hunted with a smaller gun ( 223) I am alot more cautious about my shot.
I am also very careful when using handguns because I want to know exactly where my bullet landed. If I know that I put a 45 cal hole through both lungs then I will start tracking right away because I know the trail will be fairly short. If taking a frontal shot where it's difficult to get both lungs then I might wait awhile before I start,assuming I don't see them go down.
As a side note I think the meat is less bloody while cooking from lung shot as opposed to head/neck shots. But to each is own.

Reload3006

01-12-2012, 08:27 PM

Every one has their own opinion and I believe entitled to it. Personally a Head shot is a very low percentage shot if made its an instant kill most of the time. A well placed lung heart shot is a good fast humane kill with a lot higher percentage of success. So I go for the heart lungs shoulders. most of the time they never make another step.

MBTcustom

01-12-2012, 09:35 PM

I seem to have a real preference for shooting critters in the neck where it joins the shoulders. I'm not saying its right or wrong, its just where I instinctively settle. I learned this on squirrels and it was so effective that I think I just naturally aim for that spot on deer also. I've not had this shot ever fail me, (although I always end up with bloodshot front shoulders.) If its a difficult shot, (ie. long distance, through an opening in brush, between two trees, low light, etc. etc.) I always aim for the pit of the shoulder. Try to tuck the boolit in there like my daddy does his news-paper. knock out one or both lungs, and definitely get the heart. That's how I hunt.

Chihuahua Floyd

01-15-2012, 09:15 AM

Heart lungs for the reasons already stated.
I jave shot exactly one deer in the head. A 150g Pointed soft point bounced off, only laying open the left cheek.
Did the deer die, yes, but don't know if it was the head shot or the one thru the ribs.
CF

DODGEM250

01-15-2012, 09:32 AM

I usually go right for the boiler room on a side shot. I made my first hard-front quatering, right shoulder, shot on my last deer this year. I placed my cast muzzleloader bullet right between the front of the shoulder and neck/throat area. Basically making the shot enter the vitals and exit right behind the left shoulder. My .45/310 cast ML bullet took out both shoulders and destroyed the boiler room contents, the deer never went past 15 yards, he was all "motor and a no steering".

midnight

01-15-2012, 10:04 AM

For edible game, its head shots on small game & heart/lung shots on big game. With cast bullets you can eat right up to the hole anyway.

Bob

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

01-15-2012, 12:03 PM

Morn'in Midnight!

Yes I have read that you can eat right up to the hole with a cast boolit kill.

However, with now two years of rifle, cast boolit critter harvesting under my belt, I'd have to say that the hole is just a lot bigger then I had expected.

Especially on the first critter taken with a 355gr LBT/WFN boolit.

The effectiveness of a cast boolit with the WFN is AWESOME!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

pls1911

01-17-2012, 09:21 PM

Safest shot around.... shoulder shot... through the spine and shoulder blades and joint.
Pins critters in their tracks by mechanically disabling mobility (Bones, joints, nervous system)
This placement also leaves a bit of margin for error as well.
Consider your bullseye to be a 4" soft ball between the shoulders 1" under the skin at the top of the profile "T".
With cast bullets, you'll eat right uptothe hole....

pls1911

01-17-2012, 09:32 PM

Safest shot around.... shoulder shot... through the spine and shoulder bladesand joint.
Pins critters in their tracks by mechanically disabling mobility (Bones, joints, nervous system)
This placement also leaves a bit of margine for error as well.
Consider your bullseye to be a 4" soft ball between the shoulders 1" under the skin at the top of the profile "T".
With cast bullets, you'll eat right uptothe hole....

Trapdoor

01-17-2012, 09:38 PM

As a firearms and hunting instructor, we were taught to "sell" the heart/lung area. I now hunt thickets and no longer take small racks or doe unless it's for meat only... which means no Big Bucks presented themselves this season. Normally it's nothing less than 6 points, but if it's for meat, a head and neck shot is a quick kill, but never do I take that option unless it is a certainty.

bowfin

01-19-2012, 12:36 PM

Sometimes the conditions dictate my aiming point. I have at times shot at the head, neck, and right behind the shoulder, a little more than halfway down.

My preference is for a heart/ lung shot. More room for error due to a bigger vital zone, wastes almost no meat, and should leave a nice blood trail, if needed.

I am always afraid of just taking off a deer's jaw with a head shot, but I have taken those shots when the range was short and the deer not alert and no other shot was possible. I have seen deer pull the trick of bending down to eat grass and then jerk their heads up quickly to catch you moving. That has always worried me, so if I factor that in as well.

WilNsc

01-21-2012, 11:07 AM

Head if I'm confident in the range/gun. Heart/front sholder if it's too far for a guarnateed head shot or I'm using a less accurate gun.

You don't see it talked about much but a sholder shot stops a deer faster then a heart shot. There was a study done by the SC DNR and the results gave some really good insight into shot placement and how far a deer ran on average. Can't run when your bones are shattered.

Besides a faster kill the head shot ruins no meat, which is what I hunt for.

kweidner

01-21-2012, 11:17 AM

It really depends on distance, game and firearm involved. With my precision rifles I shoot differently than with the hand cannons. Hand cannons I shoot heart large slow moving projectile works well in boiler room. Culling does with my rifle i shoot head if I can. I will shoot neck with my .22 cals swift , wssm, 22-250. My 6.5x.284 and 300 RUM at distance I shoot high shoulder. DRT with all choices. I really don't think there is a clear defined answer. Type of projectile is also a considation. Violent expansion works well in neck shots but a bonded bullet not as well IMHO. Bonded bullets need more animal to do what they do best.

midnight

01-22-2012, 10:43 AM

:kidding:At least nobody here shoots them just behind the "front shoulder" as I have seen written many times. Can any anyone tell me wheere the "back shoulder " is?:kidding:

Bob

RidgerunnerAk

01-25-2012, 10:05 PM

Well Karen are you confused yet? I have a slightly different take on this issue than many and it is most definitely NOT what you'll read in the magazines. I'm a long time Alaskan meat hunter, period. I want to take home good clean meat, which means it has to be as free of blood as is possible. The best way to accomplish that is to put a large cast bullet through the lungs, maybe even two, then sit back and let the animal.... moose and caribou in my case.... wonder what hit them and what the dull ache is as their lungs fill with blood and they finally fall over and die. Open them up and all the blood is in the lung cavity. I NEVER shoot anything in the head, neck or heart. The goal is to keep the heart going so that they bleed out internally. You get the cleanest meat that way. I'm not a huge believer in the concept of the "humane kill". What the hell is that anyway? You're putting a bullet through an animal to kill it. How is that in any way "humane". My goal is good eating. Sorry, but that's the way it is. And I can tell you that I generally succeed in that. Meat that is too bloody tastes like liver compared to well bled meat. Once the heart stops from being shot or from a head shot, no more bleeding takes place. And forget the BS about slitting the throat of a dead animal and letting it bleed out; that doesn't happen. Once the heart stops, bleeding stops except for minor drainage of large arteries. It's unfortunate, but a slow death is preferable to an instant kill when it comes to good eating. Shock them too much, with say a fast mushrooming bullet or shoot them 6x and they freak out and release a ton of adrenalin and run like hell which permeates all the meat, making the animal taste like battery acid. I only make a meat ruining shoulder or neck shot if the animal is about to jump into a river or lake and I want it down right now. A single centered lung shot with a .45cal cast bullet on a moose will generally put it down within 100yds. I once butchered a winter kill moose in northern Alaska that had starved to death. She was still warm when we found her so I got an axe out and we took the hind legs off and took them back to camp. The steaks were full of blood and absolutely inedible. We had to make jerky out of both legs. The salty marinade took the blood out. You can't always do it of course, but if you can, one shot through the lungs and sit back and wait and you will be rewarded at the dinner table.

303Guy

01-26-2012, 09:15 AM

My first few feral goat were high chest shots (liver). They just fell over then went into spasm. Chest full of blood, just like RidgerunnerAk describes. But do that to a rabbit or hare and it's lost (unless it's in an open field). The adrenalin factor is very real. It's hard to kill something that's needs multiple shots.

That hare in my avatar is food! The youngster was so proud to have shot it and then had it prepared for a family meal! It was head shot.

waksupi

01-26-2012, 12:33 PM

Ridgerunner has a good point. Shoot them once where they live, and give the wound time for them to bleed out. It takes a bit of time for something the size of a moose or buffalo to bleed out internally, and finally notice that they are dead. If you just keep putting rounds into them, they are going to figure out something is a-miss, and take off.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

01-26-2012, 02:38 PM

Yep, Ridgerunner is close!

And, inspite of what some may think, the time for the critter to expire is mostly seconds, and in fact I have had a number of critters drop where they stood from my choice of shots, a behind the shoulders, through the lungs hit.

Liken it to poking a balloon with a pin. In this case, the blood leaves the lungs with great speed and critters simply do not continue to function with no blood.

Even in those cases where the critter runs some distance, They were out of gas - dead - when the bullet hit and simply needed to coast to a stop and fall over.

I have over my hunting years, taken only one head shot on a eat'in critter, and although the critter was instantly on the ground and for all intents, dead right there, there was still body movement. At least as much body movement as many double lung shot critters I have seen.

So yes, for me I'll stay with the behind the shoulder double lung shot whenever possible.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

303Guy

01-27-2012, 06:16 AM

If you just keep putting rounds into them, they are going to figure out something is a-miss, and take off.Found that out first hand! Actually only hit the critter (a big red deer) with the first shot which also loosened the scope. Just as well because the first shot did plenty damage as it was.

There is another aspect to the shoulder or behind the shoulder shot and that is boolit rise and fall from the line of sight. The brain doesn't give that much allowance for a boolit hitting above or below the line of sight while on the bigger target area, I just make sure I'm aiming at the middle of an oval hit zone. Crucial if you are not sure of the range and the deviation of the boolit's path from the sight path.

firefly1957

01-27-2012, 09:06 AM

I also like high on the shoulder any lost meat is better than a lost animal or a half hour or more of tracking. This shot has failed me once when the range was closer than I thought and the shot took nothing but hair off the deer's back but that was my fault.

Ron.D

01-27-2012, 09:45 AM

The only animals I head shoot are rabbits and squirrels with a .22. Large animals are always heart and lung shots. Frequently shots are made at running animals and even if they are standing, the body may be still but the heads moving as it feeds or keeps an eye on it's surroundings. Shooting a beautiful animal in the jaw isn't my idea of doing things right. The heart and lungs provide a much larger and more still target and yes they're right about the animal bleeding more completely. Ron.D

RidgerunnerAk

01-30-2012, 02:03 PM

Thanks guys. I was fully expecting to get BBQ'd for my non-PC post and am surprised and impressed. Glad to hear that I'm not the only one who appreciates fine eating from game animals.

303: that rabbit looks the size of some of the deer that I shoot! I shot a bunch of rabbits on a ranch on the south island one year, using the ranchers Baikal O/U. Pretty fun shooting. Lots of rabbits. He froze them and used them to feed his sheep dogs. Now if I could just get back down to Queenstown for some brown trout fly fishing......

stubshaft

01-30-2012, 04:19 PM

:kidding:At least nobody here shoots them just behind the "front shoulder" as I have seen written many times. Can any anyone tell me wheere the "back shoulder " is?:kidding:

Bob

It is the 4' - 6' area right behind the scalpula (shoulder blade) and the first leg joint. I always try to hit this area.

With my arrow when bowhunting.[smilie=l:

Ben

01-30-2012, 07:29 PM

If you put your bullet into the " red circle " below, someone in your group needs a sharp knife and needs to know how to use it.

Ben

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/mule-deer1.jpg

Hamish

01-30-2012, 07:33 PM

Has it ever ocurred to anyone else that hittting a tree rat in the skull with a .22 is roughly the same as taking a three inch cannon ball between the eyes?

Sure, certain, instant death is an apricot one end, and a basketball in the middle. I'm just saying,,,,

Ben, a picture is worth the whole argument.

RevGeo

01-31-2012, 12:24 PM

I always try for the shoulder shot if the animal is anywhere close to broadside. On quartering or raking shots I try to break the off-side shoulder. Unfortunately there are times where a less than optimal shot presents itself and then it's a decision about taking the shot or not.
I hunt for meat (although if two antlered animals present themselves simul.. simul..at the same time I'll take the bigger antlers) so I like to shoot through the ribs or neck. Once a spike bull elk stuck his head out of the trees about 50 yards away and I shot him where the neck meets the skull. Almost instantaneous death.
I only shoot big game animals in the head if it is the only shot available or as a final kill shot. For small game I take headshots if at all possible.

lino

01-31-2012, 11:14 PM

Big game, body kill zone every time. Have seen deer with shot off lower jaws, shot off antlers, holes through ears and neck wounds. Was friends with Elmer Keith, Bob Hagel and numerous old time packers and guides. They gave the same advice.

BOOM BOOM

02-05-2012, 12:46 AM

HI,
I shoot for heart & lungs.:Fire::Fire:

DrB

02-05-2012, 01:58 AM

Prefer head shots on squirrel. Deer I've done both ways.... Heart/lung or head. The right answer is "it depends."

I dont care for the point of view that head shots are irresponsible. They can be irresponsible just like any other location. Know the gun/load, judge your hold, know your game. You won't waste much meat if any on a rib lung shot on whitetail, none on a head.

Here in the southeast a typical shot on whitetail is around forty yards, and likely from a stand. If the gun is accurate and you are proficient at head shooting squirrels, it's likely you can ethically take a head shot, if there is a reason you want to.

Also, in my experience the heart doesn't always stop beating immediately with a head shot. That too "depends." I've only had a reason to take a headshot on whitetail three times. They dropped in place, but the heart was still pumping with two of them, which I bled. The third was dead but had bled copiously. The meat was as fine flavored as any steak, imho.

Chief RID

02-05-2012, 05:28 AM

I decide at the time of the shot. Too many variables to decide early. I try not to wound game and dispatch it as quickly as possible. I have shot several deer in the head. It makes for no tracking and getting back to camp in the evening for supper a lot more fun. I had one small deer that did not taste very good but I can't remember if it was a head shot or not. It probably was and this could have been because of the deer not bleeding out while alive. I don't know. It is food for thought.

Corbi

02-05-2012, 07:28 PM

It all depends on the situation. Typically for me no head shots.

Most of my hunting is done from a tree stand. Most deer don't even know I exist when they come in. Those that get within abut 15 yards die from a high neck shot from a steep angle. I try and get them close to the head so I loose as little meat as possible.

Out side of 15 yards or if they are moving I go for a heart/lung shot. I usually don't shoot if the deer is running...hogs are another story, I shoot as I see them.

Corbi

koehlerrk

02-05-2012, 09:21 PM

I've done heads, I've done hearts, I've done neck/spine shots.

It all depends on a) what firearm I'm shooting with, b) range, c) what parts of the body I have a clear shot at.

I can consistently place bullets in less than moa groups out to 300 yards. So IMHO, part of the equation is how good a shot are you?

Now, I know a guy who takes headshots on deer out to 200 yards with a single shot 22 Hornet. He's almost 70 now, and when he goes out, he takes two shells with him. Only once in memory do I remember him coming back with one deer and no shells. Now, I'm not that good, so I don't do that, but the old man sure as heck is, so more power to him.

AKtinman

02-06-2012, 04:50 PM

I’m in agreement with RidgerunnerAK.

I lived in a small town in SE Alaska for 20 years, hunted the beautiful Blacktail deer. Sure were good eating.

A lot of deer in that area are shot on the beach from boats, perfectly legal. Most of the locals were adamant that head shots were the only way to shoot a deer. One of the guys I worked with told me that he would never hunt with anyone who didn’t do head shots. He and I never hunted together.

The interesting thing was, I would see these guys at the rifle range sighting in. Many would put up a 9” paper plate at 100 yards and if they could keep all their shots on the plate from a bench, they were good to go for head shots from the boat. That may explain why I saw so many deer dead on the beach, providing food for the eagles and ravens.

Most of my deer hunting was with a .338/06 and I preferred lung shots. No worry about penetration and exit was a golf ball-sized hole on the off side. They never went very far and very little meat damage. I never lost a deer using that method.

bowfin

02-06-2012, 05:00 PM

Ben, that deer is almost too pretty too shoot...

...then again, I haven't had a buck permit in years. Antlerless Only permits in Nebraska allow for longer seasons and are cheaper.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

02-06-2012, 07:12 PM

I'm with ya AKtinman.

The lung shot is deadly and quickly so as well as a huge kill zone when compaired to the head.

Am soon to be 69, and have taken one head shot on an eat'in critter over the years.

thankfully it was bang flop, but I was close & known distance - with a very solid rest. The critter was down instantly, but I was surprised how long it's head moved around. A lung shot usually has the critter dead and calm by the time I walk up to them.. As said, "bang flop" but it showed me nothing a side to side lung shot doesn't do just as well and most times quicker.

A water balloon seems to go very flat, very quickly when poked with a bullet. Same with lungs!

CDOC

Wolfer

02-06-2012, 08:24 PM

I've already posted here and said about the same thing as Ridgerunner but I'll add to it.
This is especially true for heavy boolits below speed of sound. If I put 1 round from my 45 colt
behind the shoulder and sit quiet they usually will make a few jumps, stop and look around.
They can't seem to know what happened, they will sniff at the wound but don't seem to be in any
real pain. In a minute or so they will fall over. If they see me before this they can run quite aways.
At least this has been my experience.

303Guy

02-08-2012, 04:20 AM

It's accounts like that of AKtinman that reinforce my shyness of the head shot. My good rabbit huntin' buddy always goes for head shots and you know what? I've seen 'em jump up and run away! I've also seen 'em simply run away. Can't be sure those that ran away didn't have a broken jaw.

I tried to dispatch a fallen deer - a big red - with a brain shot from behind with a hornet and nothing happened! So I moved to the front and put the shot between the eyes. That turned off his lights. The point is I have no idea where inside that big head the tiny brain is. So no head shooting for me.

Texas Heart Shot

02-17-2012, 12:00 PM

Like they say "Aim small miss small, aim big ya got meat". When I was guiding i always told my clients to take a shot just behind the front shoulder. Alot of them would get excited & just shoot. I always said i should have carried puppie downers for my hunters so they would calm down. LOlolo

testhop

02-18-2012, 11:12 PM

lungs always . head shots are messy and unsightly.
inmho

Silvercreek Farmer

03-01-2012, 06:26 PM

A lot of votes for head shot squirrels out there and that was my prefered target until recently. The kids wanted squirrel stew and I didn't want to let them down with a miss, so I went for the chest with a subsonic round nose .22lr. The two I shot didn't even go 5 feet, and viturally no meat was lost. I didn't even bother cutting out the wounded ribs, there was no need...

303Guy

03-01-2012, 07:04 PM

I find chest shots on rabbits are far more reliable and no meat loss - there's nothing to loose up there anyway. But, hit them too far back and they're lost anyway.

Something I've found out about squirrel brains - you guys may not want to eat them;
"Two Kentucky doctors last month reported a possible link between eating squirrel brains and the rare and deadly human variety of mad-cow disease, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease."

In the last four years, 11 cases of a human form of transmissible spongiform encephalopathy, called Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, have been diagnosed in rural western Kentucky, said Dr. Erick Weisman, clinical director of the Neurobehavioral Institute in Hartford, Ky., where the patients were treated.

''All of them were squirrel-brain eaters,'' Dr. Weisman said. Of the 11 patients, at least 6 have died.Apparently, cooking them doesn't destroy the protein that causes it.

brad925

03-01-2012, 08:05 PM

I agree with Crusty. Heart lung area. Its quick and also ensures a good bleed out.

Bealzybub

03-01-2012, 11:05 PM

My opinion is "it all depends on the situation". What type of critter I'm shooting, backdrop, how the rifle is set up, etc".

Again I think of shooting/hunting the same way I think of golf, use the right club (weapon) and every single shot is going to be different.

RidgerunnerAk

03-09-2012, 05:57 PM

303: That's very interesting; I had not heard of this issue in squirrels. You're correct about the CJ disease. Nothing seems to destroy the mis formed protein, not even incinerating. For more details on the history of this ailment read "Deadly Feasts" by Richard Rhodes. It will scare the bejeezus out of you. It's a history of the discovery of cause of this disease in New Guinea. An incredible read.

303Guy

03-12-2012, 01:55 AM

Holy Cow! There are 30known forms of prions disease (pronounced pre-ons). CJ's is just one of them. (I think that's what they said). Fortunately its rare in humans.

I've noticed how some animals behave differently. I wonder if prions ever has a part in that. Lots of things make an animal different. Some might be just plain thick - doh! Maybe simply individual character.

RidgerunnerAk

03-12-2012, 01:33 PM

In New Guinea they eventually got the forest people to NOT eat the brains of the people they killed, as was customary, and that eradicated the issue in humans there if I remember correctly.

honus

03-12-2012, 02:05 PM

My years in Alaska taught me to switch from heart/lung to the front shoulder. Heart/ lung shots are always fatal but may allow the animal to run into cover. The shoulder shot, while not an instantaneous kill, will drop the animal where it stood.

Red River Rick

03-12-2012, 02:38 PM

Smash the front shoulder, then go for the lungs!

RRR

DLCTEX

03-15-2012, 01:23 PM

Know your limitations, know your weapons limitations, know your animal and it's anatomy,and be ethical.

Beagle333

03-22-2012, 08:00 PM

My fave deer shot is the little spot just at the top of the lungs and just below the spine. A nice hp boolit will jelly the lungs and shatter the spine, and it won't last 10 seconds after that.

Stephen Cohen

03-22-2012, 08:52 PM

Since the law requires head shots on Kangaroos in this country, I have always gone for head shots on all game. Pigeons Parrots and rabbits, when shot with .22 fare better with head shots IMO, however I did use shoulder shot on my last Pig as it was the only shot offered. But I will not knock anyone their choice of aim point, as long as the kill is humane.

waksupi

03-23-2012, 12:30 AM

Stephen, what is the thinking on that law on shooting kangaroos?

303Guy

03-23-2012, 01:56 AM

I'm shocked! Mind you, you don't find many head shots that have failed. I should emphasize "find"! Not the same day anyway. Don't mean to knock those who use head shots, just the law makers. If you know what you're doing and can shoot properly then that's fine but the law makers don't always know what they're doing and neither can they shoot properly - mostly. Maybe they simply weren't 'thinking'.

Stephen Cohen

03-23-2012, 03:10 AM

Stephen, what is the thinking on that law on shooting kangaroos?

I gather the head shot idea is due to the fact, most Kangaroos are shot for the fur or meat trade, and they prefere clean carcases . Since a permit and tag system is in place for shooting them, the powers that be decided head shots were the most humane. Nothing less than 222 is now allowed for hunting a roo. Mind the shooters who carry out this trade are by large very good shots, and since it is done by spotlighting at night from a 4x4,head shots are not all that dificult.

303Guy

03-23-2012, 03:43 AM

That makes sense but not a legislation issue, surely. Thinking about footage I've seen of 'roos, they do keep their heads pretty still. My query would be only on it being law. Was it perhaps a norm dictated by buyers of the carcases rather than actual legislation? I know that in Africa the then Parks Board cullers would use 22 hornets (because they were quieter) for night time head shot culling from vehicles. The meat was obviously being sold so it was a Parks Board rule, not law. It was in fact illegal to shoot game at night, let alone by torchlight, other than for culling purposes by the Parks Board and on private land by landowners and their proxies.

Stephen Cohen

03-23-2012, 04:52 AM

That makes sense but it a legislation issue, surely. Thinking about footage I've seen of 'roos, they do keep their heads pretty still. My query would be only on it being law. Was it perhaps a norm dictated by buyers of the carcases rather than actual legislation? I know that in Africa the then Parks Board cullers would use 22 hornets (because they were quieter) for night time head shot culling from vehicles. The meat was obviously being sold so it was a Parks Board rule, not law. It was in fact illegal to shoot game at night, let alone by torchlight, other than for culling purposes by the Parks Board and on private land by landowners and their proxies.

Last time I looked at legislation it was mentioned as head shots or neck shots. yes you are correct we could once shoot them with just about any thing. As young man I shot hundreds with 22 magnum and never lost one to wounding. but I was younger and had better eye sight, and kept shots to no more than 150mtrs.

dragon813gt

03-23-2012, 06:40 AM

On a deer I aim for the pie plate size vitals. I can't imagine taking a head shot with a crossbow. On small game and turkey I go for head shots.

Brought to you by TapaTalk.

jp1

04-12-2012, 11:12 AM

On deer I have made the heart lung shot for dozens of deer and only head shot a few times when it was all I had or thought that it was required. Shot one doe at 45 yards with my Hornet, and a couple other does which would not stand and give me a broadside shot

Rangefinder

04-14-2012, 09:55 AM

Head shots leave too much opportunity for something to go wrong unless it's a perfect set-up. My preference is a CNS shot if I can get one, but in the neck--not head. The shock on impact drops them DRT on anything but a graze, usually destroys the spine, and major arteries. I've seen even small deer go an awfully long way with both lungs destroyed, but they don't take a step if the head is too scrambled an the signals to run never reach the feet.

RevGeo

04-14-2012, 10:20 AM

Anymore I take shoulder shots when available because I don't like having to find dead animals in the brush. Earlier I posted about boiler room shots and I still think they are best over all, but with a bullet heavy enough to bust both shoulders - and many cast bullet loads definitely qualify - they ain't goin' nowhere.
I've seen too many snouts and jaws shot off to take a head shot unless there is no other way. Same with neck shots.

WaywardSon

05-09-2012, 01:48 AM

Not going back to look for it, but the poster showing the red circle as an aim point on a deer had it nailed. Whether or not they are DRT...they ain't going far. It has the huge advantage of being a target that the average hunter can actually hit.

I have worked many "sight-in" days at a local range & I can tell you that it is flat amazing how poorly many folks shoot. Lack of practice and fear of recoil are big factors...and it is no exaggeration to say that a pie plate at 100 yds. is a challenge for far too many. This is from a concrete bench with sandbags. Place these guys in the field with a deer coming by on the trot...adrenalin pumping....a wounded deer is a probability.

IMO...even if you are a good shot and an experienced hunter, there are just too many chances for something to go south with a head or neck shot. A bullet through the heart/lung area kills quickly...and even if you take out a shoulder, it doesn't ruin that much meat.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

05-09-2012, 12:35 PM

RevGeo

This is one of those places that we must agree to disagree.

I am all for Kill Zone hits, but consider that as the heart/lungs BEHIND THE SHOULDERS!!!!!!!!

Over the years, I have never once had it to fail with a game animal and most of the time the critter is dead by the time I walk up to them.

Not talking critters likely to bite back!

No, for me, the meat is very important and I consider a shoulder shot to have been poorly placed and meat lost. Been there and done that and know I goofed!

WaywardSon,

Agree with your comments and will go you one more, knowing I will get a bunch of flack for the following.

I think that a hunter should be required to pass a test proving they are proficient with their firearm, BEFORE they are issued a tag!

It is done in some countries, and it weeds out those who should not be in the woods with a firearm.

I know that every year is likely not possible, but every 5 years at minimum, Including the first time you are issued a lic/tag..

The minimum of 20 rounds required would give lots of people a bunch of trigger time that they never get now, and for those of us who ARE proficient, it would be just one more time for us to do what we enjoy anyway.

Also in some areas where "party hunting" is still practiced, it would keep aunt Sally at home, considering the fact she hasn't been in the woods for the last 20 years anyway!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

nanuk

05-09-2012, 01:38 PM

I'm with CDOC on this one

I aim for a spot about 2-3" above and behind the "Elbow" to put it through the chest cavity.

I will wait for that broadside shot, and will pass on deer that don't give me that.

for Moose and Elk, if it is a quartering to, shot, it goes right into the middle of the chest.

for me, it is all about having a large target

Whitworth

05-10-2012, 07:30 AM

I am opportunist, depending on the shot that is presented. That said, I tend to lung/heart shoot them.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

05-10-2012, 11:30 AM

horsesoldier

05-10-2012, 02:16 PM

Thats my kind of huntin CDOC!

303Guy

05-10-2012, 03:45 PM

Can someone define 'shoulder' please?

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/deeranatomy.jpghttp://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/deeranatomy2.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/deeranatomy3.jpg

Freischütz

05-10-2012, 09:53 PM

I go heart/lung on moose. Head shots are only used as finishers at close range.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

05-10-2012, 11:44 PM

303guy,

To me a shoulder shot is a shot that in any way impacts the shoulder meat or bone.

I suspect that most folk who like and desire a, "shoulder shot" intend that their shot impact the bones of the shoulder and thereby break the animal down.

On something like a bear I'd agree to that shot placement, but I have never found that shot - shoulder - to ever be needed on deer, elk or moose.

A critter of that size simply will not live long or go far with the lungs gone and more often then not, I have them drop where they stood.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

runfiverun

05-11-2012, 01:00 AM

that triangle shaped bone in the shoulder is a [high] shoulder shot.
that's where i prefer to hit an elk if at all possible, and preferrably on the way out.

you can see it in the muscular picture of the deer too
if you look in that area. you'll see that if you are a bit left/high/right/low
you still will knock the animal down,take out a lung,or the spine or still hit the leg bone, or the diaphram area.
if you put a bullet through that bone you will put the animal down, most likely clipping the spinal cord, and break down it's ability to walk.[at least on the front legs]

what they don't show in that picture is where the lungs and heart are located nor the liver or any of the major arteries.
this is important information to have too, as i have made shots into the liver,up hill into the heart,and straight down into the neck shoulder junction.
the heart is located pretty low and the lungs are in the middle making the biggest surest target especially with a softer bullet.

303Guy

05-11-2012, 03:36 AM

These.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/deeranatomy4.jpghttp://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/deeranatomy5.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/deeranatomy6.jpg

runfiverun

05-11-2012, 07:19 AM

yep, see the arteries are right there, little left, little right of that bone also.
notice how low the heart is in the chest cavity.
using the 1/3 of the way up rule, will usually clip the top of that and take out both lungs and it will also allow the blood to pump from the heart into the lungs if it or an aorta is hit.

there are a lot of areas that will kill a deer very quickly, if you follow the 45* angle of the heart up through the shoulder.
if you follow another 45* line the other way it intersects where the ribs end and the liver is right there,an animal will bleed out rather quickly from a hit in the liver. [if you let it lay down]
and quite often this is the shot that presents itself, most pass on it even on a stationary animal.
mostly because they don't know it's there.
knowing the animals internals and being able to place a shot into them from any angle really pays off in the field.
especially from the front and back. head on or facing away.

i always look at where my boolit/bullet is going to exit the animal and shoot accordingly.
there is more damage from the mushed bullets exit than from the entrance wound.

onlybrowning

05-11-2012, 08:19 AM

I read an article a few years back that I liked a lot about this topic. My favorite aiming point is called the "golden triangle." it's essentially through the scapula where the spine dips low and where the lungs are. It is a forgiving spot and puts animals down immediately if hit with a decent projectile. I've had other equations factor in to my shots when I didn't take out the back of the shoulders that keep me thinking that losing some meat is better than losing it all. I'll also say that where I hunt tracking deer can be very difficult if it starts to snow,rain hard or if the wound plugs up at all. To make myself clear, have a bullet that will perform well with this shot. I like bullets that expand but also exit.

jameslovesjammie

05-11-2012, 08:36 AM

High front shoulder.

Skip to about 2:00 for the shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WhZKnOEoSQ

DeanWinchester

05-11-2012, 09:42 AM

I like to put it where the shoulder blade is. Bust a shoulder blade and even if the animal doesn't die right away, all it can do is push it's face in the ground. That lets you get to it faster and keeps it from running off to suffer needlessly while you track it. More often than not, the animal will fall and die right there anyway.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

05-11-2012, 11:12 AM

Clearly a situation where we must agree to disagree.

Take the shot circled in 303guys last images and you will have a dead critter, and not a little meat loss, but a lot of meat loss.

I agree with riverfiverun's thought of thinking through where the boolit path will take the projectal.

In fact, thinking about where the boolit will/should exit is almost more important then where the boolit strikes.

However, I am not a "head" hunter, and my primary reason for hunting in the first place is the meat I can bring home.

Sooooooooo for that reason, to take a critter if the ideal side shot is presented, where I choose to put my boolit through one or both shoulders is not only extremely wastefull where valuable meat is concerned, but totally un-needed in the quick & clean harvesting of a game animal.

I'm 69 years old this year, so fully qualify for "Ol'Coot" statis. Have taken a fair number of critters over the years, and fully know that a good bullet/boolet from a reasonable rifle need not be used to distroy valuable meat just to put down a deer, elk or moose.

CDOC

1bluehorse

05-11-2012, 11:20 AM

:kidding:At least nobody here shoots them just behind the "front shoulder" as I have seen written many times. Can any anyone tell me wheere the "back shoulder " is?:kidding:

Bob

It's farther back from the front shoulder :Bright idea:....so theoretically you could shoot em' in front of the back shoulder, or in between the front and back shoulders, no wait, that wouldn't work, that'd be a gut shot. maybe you could shoot them in the front of the shoulders, no, that'd be a chest shot,(or a miss) in between the back shoulders?? uhh no, that'd be a butt shot (I've heard of some folks doin this :dung_hits_fan:) ...hmmmmm, maybe that's why so many shoot for the head, they don't know which "shoulder" to shoot for....:veryconfu

Personally, I really enjoy hunting, but I learned a long time ago if I don't shoot nothin, I don't have to worry about any of these issues plus there's no "work" involved at the end of the "hunt". So, yep, I just like taken long walks in the woods packin a gun. Hard to beat that...[smilie=s: However if I WERE to shoot something, it'd be "behind the front shoulder"....couldn't resist...

303Guy

05-11-2012, 03:33 PM

So, yep, I just like taken long walks in the woods packin a gun.Yep. That'd be me too. I do dream of getting something and I do keep trying (sorta). But I do intend to hunt more seriously now so I really need to know how to put a deer or hog down fast. Our bush is a thick and easy to loose a crawler in as they come. Come to think of it, it's easy to loose myself as well! Of the three deer I've witnessed being shot, only one DRT'd. Another didn't go far and went down with a second shot but needed finishing and the third, my one, would have gone a way if not for the fence. After a while it lay down, that's when my buddy shot it in the head.

On goats I found myself taking my shots above and behind the circle which is a liver shot. They just fall over sideways then kick like crazy. The one heart shot I took (which also went in the 'near' shoulder and out below the 'far' shoulder i.e. upper leg, did the same thing come to think of it). A well placed low shoulder shot doesn't lose much meat at all with a 180gr 303 Brit. It's not a forgiving bullet as it does not over expand or blow the critter up and a marginal hit can let the critter go some ways and get lost. I want my cast boolits to behave the same way

GREENCOUNTYPETE

05-11-2012, 05:32 PM

I don't recall if I mentioned this earlier, but ------------------

Last Fall on one of my deer, I took the first and only head shot I will likely ever take.

Over the years, I have had a couple of critters hit in the head for what ever reason - they just moved in that direction when the trigger broke OR??? - but until last Fall it is the only head shot taken on a deer or larger critter.

Did the critter go down? Yep like a rock!

It was at a known 100yds, I was waiting behind some friends green houses, in between a couple of rows of oil drums/tanks, and was resting over a 55gal drum.

Solid rest, almost as solid as the friends bench rest, off 75yds to my left.

When that 465gr WFN cast boolit hit the doe, it as said, dropped like a rock.

However, it died I believe more slowly then my behind the shoulder, lung shot deer, flopping it's head and neck around for what I consider a rather lenghty period.

Typically when I walk up to one of my lung shot critters, they are quite and relaxed by the time I get there.

Now maybe the reason is, I tripped the disconnect, but the fuel source was still in A#1 condition with the lungs full of blood and a functioning heart.

Then, lets factor in, "hunting" and what it is. The boolit hit where intended, BUT---------- a movement hardly more then the flicking of the ears would have been enough to make a wounded rather then a dieing deer. Same thing if the deer would have again lowered it's head for another bite of feed.

I know, I know, many is the time I have shot at a ground critter smaller then the small kill zone in that deer's head, and many times done so sucessfully.

However, seems to me the stakes are a lot higher when "hunting" for a game animal. Both in the reward and the responsibility to take the critter in a quick and relyable manner.

Miss or wound a ground critter, well it is what it is, vermin, a rodent etc.

So, for me at least I'll continue to harvest my game animals quickly and very reliably with a behind the shoulder point of aim, whenever possible.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

don't feel bad the deer was lights out , that is a spinal reaction , when i butcher chickens i get the same thing

actually i have shot a number of things in the head or spine many of them deer some times even a second shot , some didn't have much head left but they still kick , i shot one doe in the head maybe 30 yards, it was all she gave me as she stood up there was a brush pile between us and my sights landed on her head so i squeezed , she went down and ran laying on her side for what seemed like 3-4 minutes before it slowed down and finally stopped it was probably only a minute or two , this was one that i gave a second shot to be sure also right in the back of the head from just inches away less you think i was using some inadequate round i was using 12 ga 1oz slugs

back to chickens , i used to cut their heads off on a log with a hatchet , they would flop and flop and break wings and bruise meat , ok for small batches but
i found if i just slid the knife over them rather than chop they would go more peacefully , when i started doing more i built a cone , then a set, these are sheet metal cones properly sized so that a live chicken is placed head first up side down into the tapered cone pull down on the head while making 2 cuts one on each side of the head and they quickly and calmly bleed out , no broken bones no bruised meat and no loss of profit. now when you are doing larger batches this is the only way to go it takes about a minute per bird to bleed out , if you run enough cones they are ready for the scalder just as your ready to put a new bird in that cone.

my point is , that they may be dead very fast , lights out , but if you break or damage the spinal cord or brain you get involuntary convulsions

that said i usually aim for the shoulder or just behind it when hunting IE the center mass hit , that is just natural where i aim at most everything it gives the best chance of a good hit even if it was a bit further out than i thought or something was a bit off

i actually shot 2 deer one year with a scope that was 6 inches off at 50 yards , something had moved from when i sighted it 2 weeks earlier it shot right about 6 inches , the deer fell , but it wasn't where i had aimed after the second i checked the scope again to find it was off.

Huntsman

05-18-2012, 10:20 PM

I aim behind the shoulder for a heart lung shot. Was taught to aim there by my Grandad. Works every time.

303Guy

05-19-2012, 05:20 PM

I aim behind the shoulder for a heart lung shot. Was taught to aim there by my Grandad. Works every time.According to the deer anatomy I posted earlier, the heart is right between the upper forelegs, behind the leg bone. In your heart-lung shots, how often do you actually hit the heart? Does it make any difference to how far the critter go's and how long it takes to die? My Dad used to shoot buffalo in the heart. He never mentioned the lung hits but did once say the animals always moved off a ways.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

05-19-2012, 10:03 PM

303guy,

I have seen deer with the behind the shoulder shot, drop like a rock right where they were standing and then I have seen them move a bit, but that is the exception rather then the rule.

The last elk I took with a through and through behind the shoulder shot went maybe 20 feet, and he was running when I shot him. Just his speed would have taken him nearly that far.

A bull moose about a like distance or less.

A cow elk went maybe 75 - 100 feet.

Last years cow with a quartering shot that took out the near shoulder probably moved 20 - 30 feet. Heart not hit, 45/70 took out the shoulder, one rib, a lung, went all the way through the paunch and stopped under the hide just ahead of the off side hind. Never tried to run, just moved in kind of a circle and dropped.

There is no hard fast rule as to distance traveled with the behind shoulder shot, but never far enough to make me question that shot placement.

However, the same can be said with a shot that takes out the heart but not the shoulders, for example a shot from above and behind which takes out the heart.

As I've indicated earlier, far and away the main reason I hunt is for the meat. Sure I'll gladly take a trophy animal, but meat is the number one reason for being there in the first place.

So, for me, a hit such as a shoulder shot is one where I have not proformed up to expectations and personal standards and have sadly distroyed some of what I was there for.

Been doing this for a goodly number of years and see no reason to stop now.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

pls1911

05-21-2012, 08:48 PM

Hhoulder/spine joint... I "see" an imaginary 4" ball just under the spine, and behind the top shoulder blade. Anything I've hit there with a properly alloyed and heat treated bullet dropped in their tracks.
Not much meat wasted either, as you can eat up to the hole, right?
and possibly quiet too.
Pop a 440 graing soup can out at 900 fps from a 36" barrel Sharps.. th pop s more like "poop!" and bullet impact is a resounding WHACK!!

wilded

05-21-2012, 09:07 PM

With a rest under 100 yards a head shot. Long range or off hand lung or upper heart area. Trophy animal center shoulder to put them down. JMHO

floydboy

05-22-2012, 03:22 PM

I think heart/lung shots are the most ethical.

ASSASSIN

05-25-2012, 10:28 AM

With a rifle, handgun or slug gun, I always shoot at the top point of the front shoulder - where they stand is where they fall....

A

olafhardt

06-02-2012, 01:41 PM

OK, a deer's head is too small and wiggly to shoot but a squrrels is the perfect spot? I have marvelled at this incongruity for over 50 years. In my youth squrrel brains were considered a delicacy so I shot them in the torso. Now I have learned that the brains may give you Creuzfeld- Jacobs syndrome so I throw the heads away and since I aint what I used to be, I shoot them allover with an ounce of 5's out of a full choke 20 gauge. Fives are the smallest shot that seems to go all the way through them.

ammohead

06-02-2012, 02:42 PM

Olaf,

Hitting a squirrel in the head with a 22 long rifle is comparable to hitting a deer in the head with a mountain howitzer. Hitting a deer in the head with a 30-30 is like hitting a squirrel in the head with a single piece of #12 shot. Only effective if placed perfectly!

olafhardt

06-03-2012, 01:58 AM

Ammo Head,you might sell that to some of the kids,but I know better.Do the math:
Squrrel say 2 #, 22 say 100 ft lbs= 50 ft lbs/#
Deer say 150#, 30-30 2000 ft lbs= 10.3ft lbs/#.
Its more but not that much more considering long rifles don't use much of their energy going through a squrrell, but 30-30's use most of theirsin going through a deer. I have seen squrrills with shot off jaws, torn up necks, broken shoulders etc fleeing entergeticly.

Buckeye509

06-07-2012, 10:50 AM

Heart and angled thru both lungs if at all possible. I've let plenty walk because I couldn't be comfortable with the shot. I like TC Contenders in 357 MAX or 44 Mag for deer. TenPoint crossbows too.

ahandgunhunter

06-09-2012, 06:45 PM

never cared for head shots. i always aim for high shoulder shots on deer drops them in their tracks.

eric123

08-20-2012, 08:00 PM

Shoulder shot is my first preference, and lung is second.

jumbeaux

08-20-2012, 08:25 PM

Top point of the front shoulder if the angle is good (broadside) or angling slightly away.....other wise I let the deer walk. Hogs just behind the shoulder plate (feral)........a frontal top of the head shot while penned.....non-feral hogs that is.....

rick

texassako

08-21-2012, 07:36 AM

I was taught to aim for immediatley behind the shoulder on whitetails. Every one I shot at so far went down with one bullet. One of the reasonings for that point of aim was it was the center of mass and is least likely to move.

Bob Krack

08-21-2012, 09:44 AM

Hunters, where do you aim for deer?
I was taught to aim for the head. It kills the animal faster and saves meat.?? But most hunters I know shoot for the heart and lung area. Even at very close range. Why?

How about wild pig? Head or heart? I know they have a heavy bone plate in their chest area.
Several answers from me. If the opportunity exists for a good neck shot, that be my first choice. Heart/lung shot otherwise.

In near survival conditions, head, neck, brisket, heart/lungs/ or even Texas heart shot (using low to medium low speed cast). Texas heart shot is just below the spine directly between the hip bones.

Pig/hog even domestic, the ideal location is about 1/2 an ear length behind the ear and an ear length below the ear. It's also called "electrocution" :mrgreen:

Bob

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

08-21-2012, 12:49 PM

Clearly, this is a topic on which many of us must agree to disagree.

I think it is pretty clear that head and neck shots find little favor because to the animals which live to die a slow death some time later.

But being a meat hunter, and that being the MAJOR reason for me hunting, and it not being something I MUST do like it is for some folk, I come down on the solidly killing shot that damages the least meat.

The behind the shoulder shot. Fast and very quickly deadly and the most return for my freezer.

Yes sir, Steelhead season opens at about the time the general deer season opens, so if push comes to shove, and I really must do something, I can fish! YES!

CDOC

youngda9

08-24-2012, 03:24 PM

Head shots on deer are STUPID. I tracked one for hours once that had it's lower jaw shot off. Never caught it...I'm sure it died a HORRIBLE death.

The head moves a lot, and the brain is a small target. Aim for the lungs, they are the size of a basketball. Put one through and through and they'll blead out quick.

stubshaft

08-24-2012, 05:24 PM

Right on the point of the shoulder!

Boyscout

08-24-2012, 05:59 PM

I have seen too many deer run hundreds of yards with a heart shot. I prefer a double lung to preserve meat. The ones I have hit in the shoulder drop hard. Reason, the spine passes right behind it. The double lung gives a great blood trail if needed and they rarely run more than 50 yards tops. Head shots are not good. Watch how fast an alerted doe jerks her head trying to catch you moving. A blown off jaw can take days to kill. It's not worth it.

Wilson

08-24-2012, 07:05 PM

Most of our shots are taken between 10 yards and 80 yards. 95% neck shots for us, when the conditions are right. We give them a lip squeak, they look. We shoot them in the white spot. Otherwise behind the shoulder.

00buck

08-24-2012, 09:32 PM

Double Lung or heart shot for me

TCLouis

08-24-2014, 11:43 AM

I get to watch undisturbed deer out of my kitchen window every day. Even with undisturbed deer the head is constantly moving especially when one considers the boolit may be launched after what the shooter brain picks as a perfect alignment for a hit.

What moves slowly if one wants a DRT is the neck body junction, large area in comparison to the head, and does little moving unless the whole animal is moving. Find a chart and study where the spine is in relation to the overall neck for the species of interest.

Heart/lung is still the best choice in my mind.

44 flattop

08-24-2014, 01:10 PM

Always through the lungs. Like my FIL told me decades ago, nothing can breath blood.

monge

08-24-2014, 01:24 PM

heart and lungs with anything that starts with a 4, my favorite is 45-70

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

08-24-2014, 03:28 PM

Yep, double lung!

Little chance that a critter, deer or elk or moose etc. will sustain a poor hit and they simply don't go far, Plus and this is important, there is little meat loss.

Doubly good is an in and out hole.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

GhostHawk

08-24-2014, 06:08 PM

It all depends on how much of a shot the animal is giving me.

If the deer is standing still, head up, inside reasonable range, I very well might try the head shot. Or I would have in the past, nowdays I know there are too many things that can go wrong.

Clean kill or clean miss is fine, if it is a clean miss. All too often its a shot off nose or jaw, an animal in agony capable of running for miles.

I have learned to prefer instead the "Sure kill". Chest cavity is a MUCH larger target, with a bit of wiggle room if the animal try's to outjump your shot.

But it does all depend on the shooter, the range, and if the deer is watching you, or something else.

I did shoot a horn clean off a young forkhorn once. He jumped out of his bed hidden in the cattails, on his second jump 3 others all banged away at him, I was a bit slower off the mark and I touched mine off on his third jump. Down he went, out cold by the looks of him. As I walked up to him he was just starting to come around, so I put another into the back of his head from 3 feet.

Only head shot I ever made, and I wasn't planning that one.

But if I spent a lot of time in a tree stand, hunting with a good rifle, and had them walking by underneath me inside 25 yards, I might try a few head shots.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

08-24-2014, 06:54 PM

Have never been a head shot person, but a few years back I was sitting out behind some friends green house operation where they grow reforestation trees.

It also happened to be the same area where I had spent a bunch of time in load development testing for my 45/70, and just a short distance from the friend's bench rest and hundred yard backstop.

Well the critter came in, I knew for sure the distance, I was sitting among some spare barrels and oil tanks with my field shooting rest set up.

I took the head shot, the first and only one I had intended, and the critter dropped like the provable rock.

However, although dead right there, it did take much longer for the involuntary body motions to cease then with a lung shot. Typically by the time I reach a critter after a lung shot, the body movements are over. Not so with that head shot deer.

Anyway, I'm a double lung shooter if I have a choice, even if the critter is close.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

MostlyLeverGuns

08-24-2014, 07:23 PM

Long ago in a land far away (Pennsylvania,1963) I was told to shoot them in the head(deer). In 1973 I went to hunt my old woods after OCS and Airborne with a new Marlin in .35 Rem. Shot a doe in the head, she dropped, got up and tripped. I finished her. I had shot out her eyes without killing her. I haven't taken a head shot on anything since. Since then I have killed a deer and two antelope shot in their jaws. I shoot lung or shoulder depending on angle and I try to use 'too much gun'. Many things can go wrong without taking high risk shots.

M-Tecs

08-24-2014, 07:47 PM

Through the years I have had to kill to many deer with the lower jaw shot off to ever condone headshots for hunting big game. Very effect when the brain is hit but having the lower jaw shot off is a bad way to go.

SeabeeMan

08-24-2014, 10:20 PM

Like many have said, right through the boiler room. It's not just about what puts them down fastest, it's about the most ethical shot, which must also balance the likelihood of hitting where you're aiming. All but one whitetail I have ever taken have been in one lung, through the heart, and out the other lung. I'm still amazed how far they can make it even with a hit like that, I couldn't imagine trying to get cocky and wounding one in the guts or, god forbid, the head.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

08-24-2014, 11:10 PM

Rich,

Yep they can run! Watched a hunting video with many kills, and it was amazing the great number of different reactions from different deer, all with very killing shots.

To this point, and it might change with the next critter, I have yet to see a deer run when hit with my 465gr Wide Flat Nose bullet from my 45/70. Muzzle velocity right at 1650fps.

The same bullet and load I earlier mentioned taking my one and only head shot on a deer.

This is basically a non expanding cast bullet, but the Wide Flat Nose (WFN) is really effective!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

Huntsman

08-25-2014, 10:53 AM

I try and Head Shoot everything...Fast and efficient. Despite Internet rumor, Bullets do not bounce off Grizzly Bear heads !

Rich

Too true with the bouncing off. I've heard that too many times. Just recently as a matter of fact. It was the the difference between a Marlin 30-30 and 45/70.
"30-30's without fail bounce off a bears skull every time, and the last thing you wanna do is tick off a bruin!"

As for me, I go for the boiler room! Archery, blackpowder & centerfire.

IDSS

08-25-2014, 12:52 PM

My dad was a head shooter. He hunted with an open-sighted Savage 99 in .243 and head shot every deer i remember him killing. His theory was that aiming for the head either produced a clean miss or a certain kill. It worked for him because he was an exceptional rifle shot; if he could see it, he could hit it. His self-imposed max range was 200 yards, or so. Heart disease took him at 44, so I don't know if he would have ever evolved his preference or finally had a bad experience.

I don't subscribe to the same theory. I have shot a deer at the head/neck juncture and it did exactly what you'd expect; it turned into a "wet noodle" and hit the deck. That shot was from very close range and it still seemed a highly mobile, fleeting target.
The others have been heart/lung and it still resulted in a dead deer with more margin for error on my part.
Coyote calling, with its fast action, small targets, and flighty quarry has taught me that there is plenty of opportunity for error and to take the high percentage shot.

Weaponologist

08-26-2014, 10:33 PM

As my skill level increased over many many years it's now my pleasure to put my game down quickly with a Neck shot. Anywhere from just in front of the shoulders on up. Where it's just as big a target as the chest area. Never had a deer run after a well placed shot.
It greatly depend on what shot is possible. When I was younger I would carry a Heavy Barrel Rifle in the woods. Once I had a deer that knew I was around but couldn't find me. He kept peeking around a huge oak tree in my direction. When I seen I wouldn't get a better shot I waited for his next peek and placed one shot under his chin. That put the lights out quick and in a hurry..
I've greatly reduced the size of the equipment I carry in the woods these days. I've learned theirs no Water Buffalo in NC.
Seemed they've all been Neck Shot.....lol.....

Swede 45

08-27-2014, 10:59 AM

Me and my dog used to do tracking on wounded game, both for the police on vehicle accidents, and via a call list for hunters, done about 200 trackings on deer, hogs and moose.
(Here the law is that you have to have a trained tracking dog available and on site within a hour after a failed recovery.)

A boiler room shot is a pretty easy tracking even if the shot isn´t perfect.. but I´ve seen my fair share of failed headshots, and those trackings are a pain.. bleeding stops pretty quick, the animal is still pretty mobile.
Sure, I´ve seen lungs and even heartshots go some distances, but the track ends with a dead animal.. never so with a failed headshot.
Even a gutshot will make a shorter track then a failed headshot.

I see a red line among those who causes these wounds.. "range marksmen".. Nice rifles, good scopes and the ability to shoot tight little groups at paper.. unfortunatly the reality isn´t found at the range.. fatigue, adrenaline, stress, shooting position, the animals sudden movement are all things that will throw a fistfull of gravel in your gearbox.

One of my last trackings was a failed frontal headshot at a large hog.. shot entered below left eye, exited left cheek crushing the left cheekbone joint.. took me 3 days to find and put down the animal. And that was one grumpy 250 pounder when my dog got to him!

The "marksman" was 1x1 inch off his POA at 50yrds.. a boilerroom shot would have been a success with that error!

Aim where you have the largest margin of error and still will be able to make a kill..

flounderman

08-27-2014, 11:45 AM

If you are shooting an edible animal, the only shot is a neck shot. You shoot a deer in the body and you are wasting half the deer. I see too many of todays hunters, or so called hunters just keep the hind quarters and tender loin and throw the rest of the deer by the side of the road. The most extreme case was some people shooting the deer at night and just cutting the tenderloins and the meaty part of the hind quarter, thru the skin, taking the meat with the hair still on it. If you are going to waste the meat, don't shoot it. stay out of the woods. If you try to hit a deer in the neck, you will be more careful with your shot placement, standing or running. I hunt alone, mostly. I don't care to hunt with people that only care about killing the deer. Shoot it two or three times and then try to give it to somebody to clean up the mess they made.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

08-27-2014, 12:23 PM

Swede 45,

Ever so well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With some fuzzy little ground vermin and an accurate rifle the hunter is aiming at a MUCH smaller target then the kill area of a deer's head or neck.

However, as you point out so very well, the difference is that with the fuzzy critter almost any hit is a kill and if not, what is lost? Not so with a game animal!

AS per meat damage or loss on a body shot, a hit that strikes other then cleanly behind the shoulders will cause some meat damage and loss.

But, time after time I read of some one talking about such and such cartridge causing excessive meat loss and damage when it is not the cartridge/caliber as much as the poor choice in bullet. Meaning bullets with low integrity and prone to explosive expansion.

Example, Hornady a company who's products I use and feel that many are a quality products has made some really bone head, head in the sand decisions along some lines. The integrity of some of the FTX bullets (gummy nose/burger on the hoof), loaded with the none standard brass in some cartridges being one.

But a glaring and very poor decision on their part is the "American Whitetail" ammunition in which they load light for cartridge bullets in some examples, while maintaining high velocities. Talk about a time bomb just waiting for a reason to go off!!!!!!!!! Had they loaded those bullets at a reduced velocity it would have been a much better choice, still able to cleanly put a whitetail down and more suitable for the critter being targeted. Better still would have been a heavier bullet with it's increased integrity at a reduced velocity.

Don't blame a good behind the shoulder shot for excessive meat loss when it is, in reality, many times due to poor bullet choice and integrity.

Well said Swede !!!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

jhalcott

08-27-2014, 01:04 PM

My older brother would shoot deer in the neck , up close to the shoulder not out by the head. He had one spin around at the sound of the safety going off. It happened so fast his ENTRY wound was on the opposite side of where he was aiming. I've seen several deer move unexpectedly for SOME reason and the head was nowhere in the scope any more! I've shot more deer close behind or thru the shoulders than any where else. Calibers from .223 to 45-70 all resulted in a dead deer with in 30 yards.

GhostHawk

08-27-2014, 09:22 PM

Swede well said sir.

Flounderman totally disagree. There is virtually no good meat except a tiny bit on the ribs if you shoot and hit where your supposed to.

Granted some guys manage to put 300 mag's through both rear hams and make a huge mess out of what is really not that hard to do with the right tools.

But IMO there is much more useable meat on the neck (even if you have to work for it a little) than there is on the ribs. And if you mess up a front shoulder, well its a shame but hopefully you learn from your mistakes.

Last, the neck is a much more mobile target, and if the deer see's the flash he might try to out jump it and end up with a hit in a truly bad place. Center of mass is much easier to hit, easier to predict movement.

For a few who really know their rifles, their terrain, and are shooting from elevated stands sure.
But I would not advocate that for the run of the mill shooter, your just creating more problems down the road.

kawasakifreak77

08-30-2014, 12:29 AM

Headshot.

About all I shoot with a rifle or pistol anymore is bunnies though. Or vermin that just need dispatched. Get close & wait for a sure shot!

reloader28

08-31-2014, 10:01 AM

I completely disagree with GhostHawk.
I think Flounderman hit it spot on.
I've used the neck shot for years.

Jtarm

09-10-2014, 07:06 AM

The head is the part of the body that moves alot and in a greater range. The heart lung area is a much larger vital zone and is more stable. Even if you shoot high and back you will most likely take out the liver or hit the spine.
If you are sure of the range and the animal is still a head shot can be done. You will need to know exactly where your bullet hits and know the range. If you miss the brain area and hit the jaw the animal will most likely run off quite a ways and may or may not be found.

The vital zone on an elk is about 16" not including the liver or spine, versus about 6" to 8" in the head.

Each hunter needs to make their own determination on the shot they will take.

+1 on the heart lung. I've taken a couple of neck & one spine when that was all I could see. It is nice not to have to go into the brush after then. In my experience, unless a leg/shoulder is broken en-route to the chest cavity, even a small deer with its heart blown to pieces will run 40-50 yards into the thickest brush before collapsing.

I'd have to be mighty close with a clear target to take a head ****

retiredPO

09-10-2014, 07:40 AM

Almost 100% neck shooter... However I use 50 cal muzzleloader, and make sure of my shot. Never had one run.... always puts them down. I help find a lot of deer that others have shot elsewhere.... I think it depends on the Hunter, the skill, the calmness, the ability to know ones limits.

kbstenberg

09-10-2014, 07:47 AM

For me the heart is my shot

pworley1

09-10-2014, 08:08 AM

Heart/lungs

Washington1331

09-10-2014, 03:42 PM

+1 on the heart/lung shot. Gives a lot of wiggle room for being a bit off on the old Kentucky windage.

I've shot animals with the 270 and several 300 magnums. Most of the animals flinched at the shot and then walked/trotted off to lie down & die btwn 20 and 50 yards of the point of impact.

I've never seen a round knock the slats out from under an animal better than a soft lead (40:1) 405 grain bullet at 1250 FPS. Do your part and put it in the boiler-room its: Bang, Flop, and you can eat up to the bullet hole.

HawkCreek

09-11-2014, 12:09 AM

I always wait for as much of a broadside shot on a big game animal as I think I am going to get and then aim for the heart/lungs. Never had a deer go more than a few yards and most have dropped DRT. It doesnt hardly waste any meat as has been said there isn't much meat in the ribs.. I do get a lot of stew meat or roasts off of the neck though so I'm disagree that that shot wastes less meat (I'm talking hunting with j-words).

The head moves to much to make it an ethical shot IMO.

truckjohn

10-22-2014, 04:18 PM

I gotta say.... Let's face it... There's a difference between where we *Advocate* and where we may personally aim when we take the shot...

I always Advocate the heart/lung shot for ONE reason - it's a BIG target that is 100% fatal... If you can put most of your shots into a dinner plate at 50 yards - you will kill deer all day long with the heart/lung shot....

Let's face it... Hunting and shooting off the bench are two TOTALLY different disciplines... Out hunting last weekend with my brother... My brother is by no means a bad shot - but he had 3 clean miss shots on deer within 75 yards.... He was finally able to connect on a neck shot (Said he was aiming heart/lung)... Would he have if he was aiming for the neck or head?

I have chased and lost far too many deer that were "Head" or gut shot by others....

And... so... What do I always tell people to take... Try to beat it into their skulls...... You guessed it.... The plain, boring, old fashioned heart/lung shot.... Why? It just works.... AND... They can HIT it....

Now... do I take that shot... Honestly - Not always....

popper

10-23-2014, 10:46 AM

The integrity of some of the FTX bullets (gummy nose/burger on the hoof), loaded with the none standard brass in some cartridges being one.
Care to expand on that thought? Bad combos you've found?

Smoke4320

10-23-2014, 12:16 PM

heart and Lung every chance I get..

jhalcott

10-23-2014, 03:21 PM

MY Grampa said "take the FIRST Killing shot you get!" That was sixty years ago. Way less deer and much fewer Magnums in the woods. On crop raiders I WILL take a head shot. The deer are less nervous and stay in the field eating longer. During deer fire arms season there are too many guns waving around in the woods and a blood trail can be a help PROVING where the shot came from (if NEEDED)!

MBTcustom

10-23-2014, 03:30 PM

50 yards and closer, I take a head shot. Further than that, I take a heart/lung shot.

badgerblaster

10-23-2014, 05:47 PM

I prefer the heart and lung shot whenever I can get it. It's pretty thick where I hunt and I prefer to give myself the best chance.

In bow season last year my son was aiming at heart and lung and the deer jumped the string. It dropped and whipped its head around and arrow went right through the skull. Dropped it dead. His "miss" turned out for the best that time.

Jevyod

10-23-2014, 11:09 PM

50 yards and closer, I take a head shot. Further than that, I take a heart/lung shot.

Ditto! Same here! Unless it is a buck and I want to save the head for a European mount.

pls1911

10-25-2014, 10:53 AM

AAAaaauuGH!!!
All ranges: shoulder/spine junction. 30-30 or 45/70 with heavy enough boolits.
Drop anything DRT and won't waste any meat.... eat to the hole, you know.
I'm just a curmudgeon who sees no need to track anything farther than it's shadow.

pls1911

10-25-2014, 10:57 AM

Artful

10-25-2014, 11:19 AM

but you repeat yourself

but I agree with you in the main.

DougGuy

10-25-2014, 11:46 AM

Heart/lung except when I am in my treestand and the deer is within 20yds and don't know I am there, I can squeeze off a good neck shot with my pistol, taking my time aiming, haven't missed one yet. Probably taken more deer shooting down on them from the stand with a 7 1/2" SBH .44 Magnum than any other firearm I own.

MBTcustom

10-26-2014, 09:38 AM

AAAaaauuGH!!!
All ranges: shoulder/spine junction. 30-30 or 45/70 with heavy enough boolits.
It's a safe shot (4" bulleseye) with plenty of margin for error off dead center and still make a shot.(+/- 2").
Drop anything DRT and won't waste any meat.... eat to the hole, you know.
I'm just a curmudgeon who sees no need to track anything farther than it's shadow.

No questioning anything you've said, except I really am bothered by your statment of using "heavy enough boolits."
Sir, would you mind telling me how, with a 45-70, you shoot a boolit too light to knock over a whitetail deer?
:kidding:

roverboy

10-26-2014, 10:48 AM

Dang this is a long running thread. I usually just shoot for shoulder or right behind it. I don't think I've ever shot a deer in the noggin but, have shot some small game like squirrels groundhogs and coons in the head.

1bluehorse

10-28-2014, 11:03 AM

I try and Head Shoot everything...Fast and efficient. Despite Internet rumor, Bullets do not bounce off Grizzly Bear heads !

Rich

Yesterday I was again reminded why head shots are (IMO) irresponsible....a small Blacktail spike buck (this year) that's been hangin around my place all summer eating grass out of the front yard along with his mother and a couple does and fawns was laying down below the house (about 75yds) with the front half of his face shot off....yes he was still alive....the other bad part about this is in this county a legal to shoot buck deer (or elk) has to be a three point or better.....so not only was the (STRONG EXPLETIVE) "hunter"? poaching (even though it is deer season) he didn't finish the job he botched with his "head shot"...(I did)......I know, none of you ever miss so it's not the same.....I've watched this little buck since he had spots and I can't tell you how angry this makes me....you shoot where you want...I've always shot shoulder, lung area.....it's not like if you lose 10lbs of meat on a deer you're gonna starve to death.....