Blackhawk Hammer Mods

[Flinchrock]

Has anyone ever tried lightening the hammer on a Blackhawk?

Purpose being to reduce lock time and mitigate somewhat that feeling of a 5# sledge hitting the frame.

[98Redline]

I posted a similar question over at Single-Actions.com

http://singleactions.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sas&action=display&thread=6658

Never did get what I thought was a decent answer, just a lot of "you don't need it" and "you can't shoot that accurately anyway..."

[fecmech]

You certainly could and in the process lighten the hammer spring. I shot PPC "back in the day" and used a K-38 S&W revolver. It came with a "Target" hammer which was larger than the std hammer( for quick cocking in bullseye matches). PPC requires a lot of DA shooting and in DA the hammer fall is shorter than SA. I changed the hammer to the std one so that I could lighten the spring to lighten the DA pull and still reliably fire the primer. The same idea would work with your Ruger, a lighter faster hammer would help lock time and sight disturbance though how much I don't know. One other thing you might look into is trigger over travel after it breaks, that will move the gun also. You want that to be minimal and is usually accomplished with a trigger stop of some kind. The only downside might be resale of the gun.

[2shot]

I put in a much heavier hammer spring ( 26# or 28# can't remember and at work right now) and that helped reduce sight disturbance a lot during hammer fall and quickened up the lock time. As far as the hammer feeling like a 5 pound sledge hitting the frame I never paid much attention to it because by the time I feel it or the recoil the bullet is already out of the barrel and doesn't effect accuracy.

2shot

[Char-Gar]

Practice will help you get friendly with the hammer slap of a SA sixgun. It won't run the risk of creating a situation that might compromise ignition and is allot more fun.

[subsonic]

I haven't done it, but as long as ignition stays consistent, it won't hurt.
I was in on the sixgun thread too. Those guys are great fellas, but not very open minded when it comes to modifying sixguns - unless it is part of a $1500+ package from a top 'smith.

Try a 26lb spring to start with.

[98Redline]

I was in on the sixgun thread too. Those guys are great fellas, but not very open minded when it comes to modifying sixguns - unless it is part of a $1500+ package from a top 'smith.

Amen to that

[Flinchrock]

I haven't done it, but as long as ignition stays consistent, it won't hurt.
I was in on the sixgun thread too. Those guys are great fellas, but not very open minded when it comes to modifying sixguns - unless it is part of a $1500+ package from a top 'smith.

Try a 26lb spring to start with.

Yeah,,,I noticed that!

Well,,doing a little experimenting is in order here, when I get to it...

[contender1]

One thing to consider when you start modifying a guns parts is reliability. What happens if you go too far & suddenly you are left with a scrap part that isn't reliable?
THe comments above about getting a heavier hammer spring are an easy, inexpensive way to increase the locktime.
If you have any doubts that it'll work,, just ask Jerry Miculek about his springs. He uses heavier springs than the factory ones. And he shoots DA faster than anybody alive. I have spoken to Jerry at length about such things. I have also spoken with a lot of the top world class shooters about speed & locktime. Most of them say that the average shooter can NOT tell the difference in the speed of an action. You have to be at the Grand Master level to really be able to take advantage of such things. A SMOOTH action will help speed up your shooting more than you realize.
Just order a hammer spring for the Old Army, as it's the heaviest spring offered. Then, spend time practicing shooting.

[Flinchrock]

One thing to consider when you start modifying a guns parts is reliability. What happens if you go too far & suddenly you are left with a scrap part that isn't reliable?
THe comments above about getting a heavier hammer spring are an easy, inexpensive way to increase the locktime.
If you have any doubts that it'll work,, just ask Jerry Miculek about his springs. He uses heavier springs than the factory ones. And he shoots DA faster than anybody alive. I have spoken to Jerry at length about such things. I have also spoken with a lot of the top world class shooters about speed & locktime. Most of them say that the average shooter can NOT tell the difference in the speed of an action. You have to be at the Grand Master level to really be able to take advantage of such things. A SMOOTH action will help speed up your shooting more than you realize.
Just order a hammer spring for the Old Army, as it's the heaviest spring offered. Then, spend time practicing shooting.

Well folks,,,I've been shooting Ruger single actions since 1973,,,dry fire practice I always see the gun shift,,don't seem to see this with my N frames...

Maybe I oughta take that skeletonised hammer out of my ACP...

[tek4260]

Blackhawk hammers are easily found. Get the heavier spring and drill away to lighten it. Just mark the hammer plunger bore on the outside of the hammer so you don't drill into it. Simple enough to try.

[Flinchrock]

Blackhawk hammers are easily found. Get the heavier spring and drill away to lighten it. Just mark the hammer plunger bore on the outside of the hammer so you don't drill into it. Simple enough to try.

My thoughts exactly!!!

Only I'm thinking about milling a slot in the front of the hammer,,will know a little more when I'm setting it up in the mill...

[fecmech]

Jerry Miculek is a speed shooter and a rare one. He NEEDS heavy springs so that his revolver can keep up with is trigger finger. Fellows like him and Ed Mcgivern can pull the trigger faster than a .45 auto can cycle the slide. That said you will find no one shooting PPC with a revolver putting heavier springs in their guns for DA shooting. That game is pure accuracy, time is not really a factor. They go with the lightest reliable DA pull they can get and you don't get that with heavy springs.


Get the heavier spring and drill away to lighten it.

With a lighter hammer you don't need a heavier spring. You can go lighter on the spring due to the increased velocity of the hammer and still get the same reliability to fire the primer.

[jrayborn]

I have been working with a GP 100 hammer, drilling it below where it would show in the gun, and one large hole between the hammer face and the spur. I have reduced the weight from 661 to 613 grains or about a 7% reduction. I have installed a 9lb Hammer spring and 8lb trigger return spring and WOW, what a nice pull.

So far very reliable too.

[canyon-ghost]

http://www.cylindersmith.com/triggerspring.html

http://www.cylindersmith.com/Ruger-spring.html

Don't know if these will help, Gun Notes from Cylindersmith's website.

Love the Blackhawks!

[2shot]

[QUOTE=contender1;1539924]
THe comments above about getting a heavier hammer spring are an easy, inexpensive way to increase the locktime.


I'm sure you ment to say DECREASE LOCK TIME .

Sorry, not flaming you just correcting.

2shot

[44man]

http://www.cylindersmith.com/triggerspring.html

http://www.cylindersmith.com/Ruger-spring.html

Don't know if these will help, Gun Notes from Cylindersmith's website.

Love the Blackhawks!
Shown just super and is what I also do. I never buy trigger springs but I do buy Wolff over power, variable hammer springs, 26# for all of my guns.
I HATE Ruger hammer springs because they take a set after long use and accuracy drops.
Accuracy is a good blow to the primer first. If you speed the hammer and spring, that works fine too as long as the primer is hit properly.
To lighten things so a primer just barely fires or a softer primer cup is needed is a sure way to toss accuracy but that will be OK for some close range steel shooting.
I do not worry about lock time with the SA or the jar to the gun dry firing. Means nothing at all. Fast lock time and trigger stops work better for one hand target shooting.
A good, strong, hammer spring in a Ruger does speed lock time but I don't figure lock time is what makes my guns shoot.

[Alan]

Actually, the bump you are seeing from the hammer drop isn't the impact - it is overtravel on the trigger. The reason you DON'T see that on a lot of Smith's is that they have a little block in the groove in the back of the trigger. "Target" guns have it and "combat" guns generally do not. Example, most M14's have the block, and most M19's don't.

The hammer swings the same way every time, and hits just as hard every time. Shooting is about consistency. You can certainly modify the hammer, but I would wager you will get better results by putting in a trigger stop.

[44man]

I posted a similar question over at Single-Actions.com

http://singleactions.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sas&action=display&thread=6658

Never did get what I thought was a decent answer, just a lot of "you don't need it" and "you can't shoot that accurately anyway..."
I was tossed off quick when I started to show groups and explanations of how to make a SA shoot. I went head to head with Taffin and was called a liar, nobody can get a SA to shoot like that past 20 yards! [smilie=l: Then I found Taffin has some youngster shoot for him and he only counts the best three out of six shots at 20 yards. The three out of the groups must have been the UFO going over! :bigsmyl2:
Some of them are nice guys and I know one moderator, super guy. He comes to shoot, seen the truth and wants me back. But there are too many dragging on Taffin's coat tails. I do not like a bad attitude or a swollen head.
I am sure if Taffin and I sat down, shot together, we would be friends. Just never tell me I am a liar with a keyboard.
Fellas, you can take a decent out of box Ruger and do a trigger job, load right and shoot 100 yard groups that will put you in the liar class. You need not spend money until you break your wallet.
I do not want any of you to do things to your guns you might regret.
Think twice or three times before you start drilling and cutting, you will not improve the great SA.
Please, please, other then springs and a trigger job, leave your gun alone.

[2shot]

I was tossed off quick when I started to show groups and explanations of how to make a SA shoot. I went head to head with Taffin and was called a liar, nobody can get a SA to shoot like that past 20 yards! [smilie=l: Then I found Taffin has some youngster shoot for him and he only counts the best three out of six shots at 20 yards. The three out of the groups must have been the UFO going over! :bigsmyl2:
Some of them are nice guys and I know one moderator, super guy. He comes to shoot, seen the truth and wants me back. But there are too many dragging on Taffin's coat tails. I do not like a bad attitude or a swollen head.
I am sure if Taffin and I sat down, shot together, we would be friends. Just never tell me I am a liar with a keyboard.
Fellas, you can take a decent out of box Ruger and do a trigger job, load right and shoot 100 yard groups that will put you in the liar class. You need not spend money until you break your wallet.
I do not want any of you to do things to your guns you might regret.
Think twice or three times before you start drilling and cutting, you will not improve the great SA.
Please, please, other then springs and a trigger job, leave your gun alone.


Funny I had a run in with Taffin too a few years back! I made a comment about some of the custom work being rather expencive and I thought that a Ruger could be made to shoot good for a lot less than $1000-$1500 the custom makers were asking. Taffin said I needed an attitude adjustment and said he was going to clean my clock if he ever ran into me. Needless to say it never came down to that and later in the post he did apologize but the deed was done and I never went back to that site, couldn't take the attitute. :coffee:
I was kind of looking forward to my 15 minutes of fame though.

2shot

[x101airborne]

WOW!!! I have read some of his writings and having never met him in person, always thought he would probably be like Mike V. Seemingly easy going, tolerant, professional. I dont know what kind of pompas horses tail he thinks he is, but anyone who offers to clean my clock for me better knuckle up or draw. To me threatening me is like slapping me in the face. I'll be damned if Im gonna take it. You sir, are a better man than I even though all this was over the net.

[2shot]

WOW!!! I have read some of his writings and having never met him in person, always thought he would probably be like Mike V. Seemingly easy going, tolerant, professional. I dont know what kind of pompas horses tail he thinks he is, but anyone who offers to clean my clock for me better knuckle up or draw. To me threatening me is like slapping me in the face. I'll be damned if Im gonna take it. You sir, are a better man than I even though all this was over the net.

Everybody has a bad day once in a while and he must have been having a real bad one that day. If I remember correctly he thought I was putting down custom builders of fine single action handguns. I wasn't and the work these guys do is truely amazing and beautiful, just out of my price range. And myself being 6' 4" 240 pounds and an ex Airborne Ranger I didn't worry to much about his threats [smilie=1: although if he lived closer I might have driven over that day just to introduce myself in person.[smilie=2: He may or may not be that horses tail but I know that for myself the plans to buy some of his writings have never come to pass and probably never will. I wish him the best but after what he wrote to me I want nothing to do with him but that's just me.

2shot

[44man]

Funny I had a run in with Taffin too a few years back! I made a comment about some of the custom work being rather expencive and I thought that a Ruger could be made to shoot good for a lot less than $1000-$1500 the custom makers were asking. Taffin said I needed an attitude adjustment and said he was going to clean my clock if he ever ran into me. Needless to say it never came down to that and later in the post he did apologize but the deed was done and I never went back to that site, couldn't take the attitute. :coffee:
I was kind of looking forward to my 15 minutes of fame though.

2shot
You have more then 15 minutes of fame here, you have respect and friends. Forget fame, help for others is where life is and even if not is all right and we discuss it, we never lose a friend.
I was tossed from Graybeard too. Know why? I showed a picture of a slumped soft boolit taken from a gun rag. I was told I did not fit in. It took a while until I found the reason but it was only a picture that was not even mine. The picture was published.
Fit is when you do not do better then the king of the hill. If you do better, your in trouble. We are equal, no kings.
Do not fall for the expensive changes for your gun, it is only for some to get free stuff and more money by promoting those things.
I feel better to tell you you need to spend 10 cents for a fix. If I say you need $2,000, kick me and kick me hard .

[subsonic]

I still spend a fair amount of time on that forum, as well as other familiar names from here. It is what it is. I have run into people having "bad days" on every forum, and even had some myself before I learned to just use the delete key.

Now, there are other forums where it seems like jumping on a new guy, declaring a troll, and then forcing him off is SOP for the "regulars". I don't go to those once I see that.

[Flinchrock]

I was tossed off quick when I started to show groups and explanations of how to make a SA shoot. I went head to head with Taffin and was called a liar, nobody can get a SA to shoot like that past 20 yards! [smilie=l: Then I found Taffin has some youngster shoot for him and he only counts the best three out of six shots at 20 yards. The three out of the groups must have been the UFO going over! :bigsmyl2:
Some of them are nice guys and I know one moderator, super guy. He comes to shoot, seen the truth and wants me back. But there are too many dragging on Taffin's coat tails. I do not like a bad attitude or a swollen head.
I am sure if Taffin and I sat down, shot together, we would be friends. Just never tell me I am a liar with a keyboard.
Fellas, you can take a decent out of box Ruger and do a trigger job, load right and shoot 100 yard groups that will put you in the liar class. You need not spend money until you break your wallet.
I do not want any of you to do things to your guns you might regret.
Think twice or three times before you start drilling and cutting, you will not improve the great SA.
Please, please, other then springs and a trigger job, leave your gun alone.

Well 44Man,,I have a lot of respect for you, from what I know of you on the forum here,
but this is gonna bug the bejazzies out of me till I find out for myself.
I do plan on having spare parts on hand beforehand. As a matter of fact I plan to fit up the SPARE hammer first and then modify IT,,that way if it doesn't work out I'll put the original back in and go from there.

[375RUGER]

I took a little weight off of a SBH hammer before not for any particular reason, just cause I wanted to. Can't say that the gun shot better but the deer die just a nanosecond faster.

[rintinglen]

bobbed hammers helped back in the days when cops shot PPC with round guns. Simple physics tells you that lighter, faster yields more energy than heavier, slower. Energy busts primers. I saw a custom Ruger years ago that had multiple lightening holes in the hammer and was a tack driver. I have one of the current production Flat Top 44 Specials and save for a bit of trigger work, it is box stock. It is also a tack-driver. A lightened hammer and a stronger spring will get you a faster lock time. Whether that will help you shoot significantly better is anyone's guess.

[44man]

Well 44Man,,I have a lot of respect for you, from what I know of you on the forum here,
but this is gonna bug the bejazzies out of me till I find out for myself.
I do plan on having spare parts on hand beforehand. As a matter of fact I plan to fit up the SPARE hammer first and then modify IT,,that way if it doesn't work out I'll put the original back in and go from there.
Yes, have extra parts. That is smart.
A fast hammer works, no doubt at all. But will the hammer spring on a Ruger speed up? You might still need Wolff springs to play with.
I see a huge improvement with Wolff springs in hammer speed but the important thing is still impact on the primer.
A good spring and a lighter hammer should be fine. I don't want to deter you but the original spring might not work like you want it to.
I really do hate Ruger and BFR hammer springs. Both are the same!
Get a FAST spring. Use a stronger one for a heavy hammer.
The bad thing about Ruger springs is that they take a set and get real short. That ruins primer impact.

[tek4260]

I just saw how they take a set. I was digging through the parts box and pulled out 6 or 7 and none of them were the same length. These were all factory springs from non lock revolvers.

[subsonic]

I guess buying the 10 pack of 26lb from wolff was a good move. I have 4 Rugers and 2 BFRs, and room in the safe still.

[44man]

I just saw how they take a set. I was digging through the parts box and pulled out 6 or 7 and none of them were the same length. These were all factory springs from non lock revolvers.
Amazing, isn't it?
When I was doing a lot of gun work I was buying Wolff 870 and 1100 magazine springs by the dozen. The shotguns would feed one or two shots and fail. I found the mag spring was set, stretch it way out and get the guns working. So I put in new springs and never had another come back.
I have Ruger Mark II magazines that will set with 5 rounds in them and fail to feed all shots. 10 shots stored will ruin them so I need to stretch them.
Yet you can find an original 1911 mag full of loads and they will all feed.
Now listen to a stupid thing. I have the Smithy Granite 1324 lathe. The motor kept stopping and I had to take it apart. The brush springs had the wire melt off. I fixed that, ran it a while and it would quit again. The springs were shot, almost melted. No spring left with annealed metal.
I found some springs in my box and changed them. The machine has been working fine for years now. Not enough pressure on the armature with original springs made HEAT.
I might be stupid, no education beyond High school but I see things that engineers have no idea about.
Brass, primers, springs are so important. I don't do this stuff to gloat, I do it to help. I never want anyone to spend money for something that that will do nothing.
I was a gunsmith, part time because I would go broke by itself. I shot hundreds of custom and super expensive guns and none were better, some so bad I would never buy one.
Want a good rifle? buy a Savage. I have nothing bad to say about Remington, Winchester or Weatherby but the Savage always shot for a lower price.
If a Ruger will not shoot, it is either bad, sell it or learn to find the problem at your loading bench.
I have an awful time finding good or bad guns of any make. They are all the same. It has never been the money you spend. Some are so bad and some are perfect.
Now you need to spend $4000 to $5000 for a shooter. Darn it I had $100 guns that did better. My first Ruger .44 was $96, would anyone like to shoot against me at that time? :mrgreen:

[Char-Gar]

John Taffin can be curt, obstinate and highly opinionated. But at the core he is a fine fellow. The same can be said for Mike V. Mike no longer shows up here after taking a swipe at this board and a member in print. No names were mentioned but he did hold the folk in question up to ridicule.

Gun writers have always had a symbiotic relationship with the gun industry.

Taffin is one of the principal lights in a group known as "The Shootists", which is an elite by invitation only group that meets once a year at Whittington Center near Raton New Mexico. Their stated purpose is to be a group of gun fans who "will do the ride the river with".

The common denominator of the members is they are all either gun writers, high end gunsmiths, or repeat customers of said high customers. So it would seem to me that high end custom sixguns is what makes a fellow fit to ride the river with. I don't know if this is how things were intended to be, but it is how it has worked out.

So it is not a surprise to me that Taffin would rush to the defense of custom guns over factory guns. But we the great unwashed muddle on with factory guns not knowing how severely handicapped we are.

[rintinglen]

My definition of a fine fellow does not include curt, or obstinate. I can live with opinionated. To each his own, I guess, but I have seen a score or more "Custom" guns that were simply a waste of money, and more than a few that were down right dangerous. Pretty is as pretty does. A Target 45 ACP that malfunctions 5 times a match is not worth the aggravation no matter who "made" the darned thing. Those who brag on them remind me of the race track touts who used to run around giving "tips" designed to change the odds to help the bookies. The touts and the bookies prosper, as do the gun smiths and gun writers, but the rest of us, who either can't or won't spend the money to triple the cost of a gun that already shoots better than we can, well, we'll just have to make do.
ps. Char-Gar, I liked the line about the "great unwashed," makes me want to give up bathing just so's I can fit in better.

[44man]

Gun writers get all kinds of free stuff to advertise. Profit for them and the rag.
I heard of one that got guns to test with an option to buy or send them back. He kept them without paying.
Writers should never have a bias, tell the truth even if painful to someone. That was what it was like long ago. Today, the rag will bump you. Toe the profit line or go away.
I get all kinds of rags in the mail. I never ordered any and never paid for any. I just don't know why they were sent to me. I pay for two even though they have gone downhill, Handloader and Rifleman. The rest are useless. Fancy pictures to sell products. Rifleman just has nothing worth reading and I flip the pages through $4000 guns and $4000 scopes. But I need to support the NRA. The Hunter rag is worse, same old dried up junk.
Taffin knows guns and history but he is not a shooter or knows how to make a gun shoot, factory loads and the more expensive the gun, the more praise he gives it. He is not alone, too many are doing the same.
Long ago, I would learn stuff from a rag. All of that is gone.
Did I get too smart? NO, writers got dumbed down for profit.
I would last 10 seconds because I would tell the publisher to stick his junk where the sun doesn't shine and tell the truth.
Remember Ken Waters, Jack O'Conner, Elmer and some of the best? We would read the stuff but if any of you today spend 5 minutes with a rag you are bored in the bathroom. :kidding:

[EDK]

I like John Taffin and Mike Venturino although my only contact is via their writing. They have both saved me a lot of time and wasted reloading components, as well as some good stories. Unfortunately technology has reduced the distance between the experts and the average shooter. Almost every one here has access to INTERNET, equipment like CHRONOGRAPHS and other testing equipment, and reloading equipment and data from various manufacturers. The quality of guns and the number of good gunsmiths has also increased. Today, ALL OF US have access to "the candy store!" All you have to do is select where your available yankee dollars are going to and for what. I like looking at the exotic finishes and gun work and hope to get a BBQ gun engraved, etc some day, but it won't be the end of my life if I don't. I sure wish people hadn't lost their sense of humor and not started taking things or themselves so seriously.

As for THE SHOOTISTS; as long as they pay the usual fees to use the Whittington Center, I hope they enjoy their party...I don't know enough of their membership to judge if "they will do to ride the river with."

Mr. Taffin does not have a lot of INTERNET activity on the site that he currently posts infrequently on. Come to think of it, not a lot of activity over there from anyone compared to here...and that is a shame 'cause I enjoy the site and the people on it.

You boys and girls have a good day. It's 43 and sunny so the light snow is melting and I'm going out to shoot.

:redneck::cbpour::2gunsfiring_v1:

[44man]

I like Mike, we went back and forth a little but he writes fun stuff. He is a real hand loader and I never seen him tell you that you need such and such expensive stuff or you will not shoot.
I don't know why he has not posted for a long time. He is good people without a chip on his shoulder. Took a while for us to understand each other and I truly do miss him.

[tacklebury]

There's a goodly number of guys on the Ruger Forums that swap out the super hammers for the regular blackhawk. These are a bit shorter in the hook and look pretty cool on the blackhawks. How much weight or locktime is reduced, I don't know. ;) I'm fine with mine, at least it's quicker than my percussion delay. hehe ;)