Suggestions 20ga Rem 870 slug

[44fanatic]

Looking for suggestions on what type of slug/mold to go with. I am hunting with a 20ga Remington 870 with the cantilever rifled barrel (18" I think). For my reloading, I will be using a Lee Load-All and want to stay with the fold crimp for now.

I have been looking at the Lymann sabot slug but have not heard really great things about it. Any success stories out there with the same shotgun I am using? How about Lee slugs?

Ultimately looking for 3" or better accuracy at 100yds and complete pass through (not sure if this is a realistic expectation) of both shoulders on whitetail...Took a small buck at 80yds with Hornady SST's and had no blood. The first shot was broadside and the round stopped in the opposite shoulder, the second round was quartering away broadside, same side as first, and the round was recovered under the skin just behind the opposite front shoulder. After the first round, the deer ran about 30 yards, stopped and stood for about 10 minutes (could not get him to move or turn with "meeawing") and then laid down (tail toward me both times) for about 10 minutes before standing and finally giving me the opportunity at the second shot. Once again...no blood on the ground.

Eventually gonna buy a few boxes of Winchester AA's and have a shooting day at the range...need the hulls. So it looks like Win AA's will be my hull of choice. Future reloading will be 00 buck for the 12ga.

[44fanatic]

Forgot to mention...tired of spending $3 a round, need more range time without breaking the bank.

[Reload3006]

I at one time thought Lee made a slug mold but they dont. Lyman makes a sabot slug. and maybe one of the site mold makers will make you a custom mold. I made my own. its not the best but works pretty good. 12 ga you have lots of options but not so many in a 20

[TRG3]

In my 12 gauge, I tried the Lee Key Drive (3" group), Lyman 525 sabot (2" group), and finally settled on the .690 roundball (1" group), all at 50 yards. What I'm saying is don't overlook the lowly roundball as possibly your best option.

[Reload3006]

In my 12 gauge, I tried the Lee Key Drive (3" group), Lyman 525 sabot (2" group), and finally settled on the .690 roundball (1" group), all at 50 yards. What I'm saying is don't overlook the lowly roundball as possibly your best option.

in some states Round ball isnt legal. In missouri you can not hunt with buck shot and I know Round ball is not buck shot but some conservation agents consider it so.

What I am saying is the best option isnt always available.

[44fanatic]

in some states Round ball isnt legal. In missouri you can not hunt with buck shot and I know Round ball is not buck shot but some conservation agents consider it so.

What I am saying is the best option isnt always available.

Buckshot is the option I dont have here in TN. Just checked the regs and a single solid ball is permissable.

[44fanatic]

Would a round ball require a roll crimp?

[Reload3006]

no you can fold crimp with the proper wad.

[DODGEM250]

While trying to not be repetitive on the subject. I use a .58 cal Minie bullet in a standard wad for my 20 ga slugs and I use the Lee 1 oz slug for my 12 gauge slugs. I would love to buy and try a handful of those Lymans though. The reason I reload my own is the same reason you are asking these questions. I'm tired of $6.50/ 5 box of Remington BuckHammers for my rifled 20 ga, so, I make my own (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38874&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1324844237) now.

[DODGEM250]

I at one time thought Lee made a slug mold but they dont. Lyman makes a sabot slug. and maybe one of the site mold makers will make you a custom mold. I made my own. its not the best but works pretty good. 12 ga you have lots of options but not so many in a 20

Yes Lee does make the 12 gauge slug mold. They do not produce the 20 gauge any longer. I got my 12 gauge mold from ebay for $26.00 new a few weeks ago. The Lee 12 gauge design "works", but, I'd would like to try something else like the Lyman slugs. The Lee slugs just seem, well... little, puny, whatever you want to call it. I would prefer it to be a solid slug instead of hollow, but, I don't want glues inside of my deer meat either.

[Reload3006]

Yes Lee does make the 12 gauge slug mold. They do not produce the 20 gauge any longer. I got my 12 gauge mold from ebay for $26.00 new a few weeks ago. The Lee 12 gauge design "works", but, I'd would like to try something else like the Lyman slugs. The Lee slugs just seem, well... little, puny, whatever you want to call it. I would prefer it to be a solid slug instead of hollow, but, I don't want glues inside of my deer meat either.

We were talking 20 ga that was the post.

the hollow is so the base of the slug will expand to fit the bore. if you want them solid grind out the drive key. I dont think you will be happy with the result.

[turbo1889]

In response to the OP:

The complete pass through part is entirely possible with a heavier weight solid hard cast lead slug with a moderate meplat size of almost any variation (Full Bore Solid, Full Bore Round Ball, Wad-Slug, or True Sabot Slug) only an undersized round ball used as a wad-slug might not completely meet your penetration requirements. In addition soft lead and wide meplat slugs are out of the running as well since you only have 18" of barrel length and want to stick with a fold crimp which minimizes your potential for delivering enough energy down range to meet your penetration requirements with a softer lead slug that will mushroom or a wide meplat slug, both of which sacrifice penetration for a more extensive wound channel compared to a hard cast slug with a moderate meplat.

The accuracy part is where it gets tricky especially considering that your gun is a switch barrel gun and doesn't have a barrel that is solid mounted to the frame and the level of accuracy you are wanting to achieve.

[44fanatic]

Ive been reading to much, looks like I may go with a roll crimp instead of the star crimp. More consitency with the roll crimp. So this opens up a whole concept of what I was looking at.

I will be loading 2 3/4" for my daughter and 3" shells for myself. Could be some interesting range time seeing what the difference is in POI, hopefully not more than 4" at 100yds.

Any input on the below molds? Money is a bit tight, so trying to keep mold cost less than $60, which does open up the Lyman molds.
http://leeprecision.com/xcart/MOLD-575-500-M.html
http://leeprecision.com/xcart/MOLD-D-C-58CAL-440.html

I believe that both of thse molds will meet Turbo's and DODGEM's suggestions.

Before I start buying hulls, any reccomendations...I believe I should be starting with unfired hulls if I am going to be using a roll crimp and I will not be able to fire 3.5 shells from my shotgun.

[turbo1889]

The second mold you list there would be my choice if I had to choose between the two you list:

----- It's lighter weight which is almost exactly 1-oz means a little more velocity and a less rainbow flight path.
----- Its pointed rather then rounded ogive nose will probably be more stable in flight when passing through the trans-sonic range.
----- Its a double cavity mold rather then a single cavity for double the production rate.
----- It is not a hollow base mold which means it will be easier to cast with and since you are shooting a rifled barrel slug gun you don't need a hollow base design.

Thoughts and Pointers:

----- Cheddite hulls are better then Fiocchi in the 20ga. in my experience (IME).
----- Remington hulls are an excellent choice (once fired) for loads using a fold crimp.
----- For a wad-slug in the 20ga. I strongly suggest the use of the Federal 20S1 wad.
----- 28ga. nitro cards (assorted thicknesses) are what you use inside the wad-cup under the slug to adjust the height of the wad-slug inside the wad. You can use 20ga. nitro cards (assorted thicknesses) under the wad itself over the powder charge followed by a single 28ga. 1/8" thick nitro card that fits up inside the hollow of the gas seal cup on the bottom of the wad to adjust the height of the whole package inside the the hull to get the right crimp height.
----- Usually with a wad-slug one uses a fold crimp. One can use a roll crimp as well but you will need to place a thin 0.07" thickness 20ga. card wad on top of the nose of the slug which has its height inside the wad flush with the end of the petals (trim the ends of the petals and/or add 28ga. card spacer under the slug to accomplish this) to be strong up against the roll crimp and unroll it properly when the shell is fired. The petals of a regular shot wad with a wad-slug that does not have a completely flat nose (wad-cutter shape slug) to support them are too flimsy to unroll the roll crimp on their own. The 0.07" thickness card is just right and is just strong enough to work as a "heavy-duty" over shot card while still being light enough not to effect grouping.
----- For 20ga. lower velocity loads (reduced recoil or plinker loads) Blue Dot powder is the name of the game with a few other powders that can be used as well but but aren't quite as versatile, easily available, and universal as Blue Dot is.
----- For 20ga. solid upper end performance hunting loads Alliant-2400 powder ignited by a Fed-209A or CCI-209M magnum primer is a superb combination.
----- For 20ga. ultimate top end performance loads Reloader-17 powder in sufficient quantity and properly loaded with a sustained wad pressure compression loading technique through the use of a specific roll crimp technique ignited once again by a magnum primer offers the ultimate in performance provided you have at lest 22" or so of barrel length and your gun has a heavy wall thickness bull barrel (sounds like this option isn't available to you with your gun, though so the 2400 powder loads are probably the top end for your gun).

I will say that I have not specifically used either of the two designs you have listed (take that as a disclaimer) but from what I know about slugs that is my $0.02, take it for what it is worth.

[44fanatic]

So, what I am gathering at this point....

The 58cal minnie...should be a good choice. Straight WW or should I water drop them?
Rem STS hulls (fold crimp)
Fed 20s1 wad
28ga nitro wads (different thickness)
Alliant 2400 powder (plenty on hand)
Primers CCI-209m (any problem using these on 12ga buckshot loads (standard book loads)?)
20ga Overshot card? I dont think I will need them for the fold crimp.

Would like to do the shopping at Midsouth (avoid the hazmat fee), but BPI looks to be the best source, other than the mold.

Turbo...Im still trying to figure out your in depth knowledge of the slugs...Running through my mind that you like to take the griz and moose up close...LOL. Figured the shotgun slugs were more for the flatlanders (anywhere east of the Rockies). BTW, know any Bahers(?) up around that way, went to MSU with a guy named Ron Baher back in the mid 80's. Burnt off his mustache and eyebrows trying to get my truck started when we had the cold front in Feb of 88.