Critical details for an accurate Mini 14?

[Ragnarok]

I've owned a couple of Ruger's Mini 14 rifles...the first was a Ranch rifle from the 1990's..and it was a reliable plinker blessed with poor accuracy. Bad enough that it was pointless to scope the thing. From a cold barrel..you could get a shot or two on target then the shots just wandered around. The more you shot the worse it got. Let it cool down...and maybe..just maybe it would be good for another shot or two on target. Maybe not. It was pretty pathetic at 100yds.

So I peddled that Ruger and bought a HBAR AR15..it shoots fine.

A couple years ago...a friend talked me into a group buy on police trade Mini 14 rifles. I pondered the deal..and kicked my order in for what I thought would be a police trade Mini 14 GB stainless. Well....must not have got all the info...or assumed too much..because we received regular old stainless steel Mini 14 rifles..not GB Mini's.

I received a clean old Mini...all wood furniture..handguard and all..182 series. Probably a decade and a half older than my previous Ranch series Mini. I didn't shoot it for probably a year after I got it because I really figured it's accuracy would stink.

Well?..When I did shoot the LEO trade Mini..it's accuracy was fine. I mean it wasn't a heavy barrel varmiteer or anything like that...and burn two 30 round mags downrange and groups opened up somewhat....but overall...this older stainless Mini shoots much much better than the newer Ranch Mini I had owned. This one shoots like a guy would expect a fairly pricy gun to shoot(as in..you can hit things you aim at).

I've talked to other knowlegable shooters about it...and several have reported owning Mini 14 rifles that shot just fine.

So just what 'vital to accuracy' manufacturing details was Ruger not able to put into every Mini 14 rifle?

[Jailer]

Not sure what is "vital" on any mini 14 but in my experience it's **** shoot. You can have a beat up looking thing that shoot great and one that looks like a museum piece that you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with. We've got some that shoot great. Others, not so much.

If you want an accurate mini 14, get a new 580 series or newer with the re profiled barrel. They shoot real nice especially compared to the older ones. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a new one.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I had a stainless one in 1982, beaut little rifle, reasonably accurate, but I found the best way to make it more accurate, was to get closer, HaHa!

Used them at work for 18+ years and they took them away because the Dept's armourer was a dill (who had el Supremo's absolute confidence unfortunately, he wasn't a bad guy, just got an idea in his head about a gun or cartridge and no amount of facts would shift him). He convinced the Dept boss that we would be better off with 40S&W Ruger. Wrong! The round was running out of steam before it reached the areas in the prisons where the crooks were! Dumb, dumb, dumb. Nice Police rifle for an urban environment, but way off beam for us.

That carbeen is no longer produced by Ruger and the Dept has gone back to mini 14s apparently. Not that it affects me, long since pulled the pin. Good to see the bobbies (what we call the troops in the prisons in Australia, there used to be a lot of English guys working in the system after the war and into the 60s and early 70s) with a good bit of equipment.

The AR would be a better rifle, but too many slow ships in teh convoy. A Mini 14 can be leant in the corner, knocked over and /or dropped a squillion times until the foresight has been worn down scraping against the wall and it will still run like clockwork. I wouldn't give one to a soldier in a battlezone, but perfect for some of the zombies and fools working in towers. Most of the guys and girls are switched on and responsible, professional operators, but there are a small percentage who make you think 'how did they get through the selection process?????

[Mk42gunner]

No idea of how the new series shoots, but it couldn't be worse than the ones from the 1980's or 90's.

I had two blued ones, a standard Mini-14 that would do about 4" at fifty yards. One time I shot a varmint at my dad's house, with American made commercial, non corrosive ammo; only one shot, so I didn't clean the gun. I went to shoot it about three days later and the piston had corroded to the operating rod so bad I had to use a mallet to open the chamber. That gun got sold quickly.

The next one was a Ranch rifle that didn't shoot appreciably better. It got traded within a few months for something else.

It stands to reason that a few of them would be useably accurate, but I haven't seen one yet. It is a shame, one would make a pretty good bedside gun for rural dwellers if you could be certain of hitting what you shoot at.

Robert

[Ragnarok]

A fellow shooter(and boolit caster) told me he had owned a stainless mini of similiar vintage to mine...his mini being a good shooter too.

My ex-boss had a blued mini I had personaly shot back in the 1980's...it too was pretty decent accuracy-wise.

Others too report occasionaly of owning decent shooting mini 14 rifles.

I wonder if by qirk of fate..sometimes Ruger pumped out a good shooter....

Or sometimes you hear rumors Ruger wore out the barrel-making tooling(maybe explaing why quite a few mini's stink for accuracy)..That I don't beleive.

I personaly wonder if maybe Ruger made sure LEO contract guns met a accuracy standard.

Don't know for sure? My best guess from a technical veiwpoint is that the bone stock older mini could've been made to shoot ok(you see some that do)..but that Ruger really didn't put the effort into assuring any real standard of accuracy from the product. It was probably selling well without the effort..and/or they just didn't really care!

I would imagine that if Ruger had interested the military in any quanity of mini 14 rifles...then suddenly any accuracy issues would've been addressed pronto..well before 2005 when the newer heavier barreled series came out.

[45 2.1]

The original 180 series (the one it was introduced in with the thinner forend) were excellent shooters (something on the order of MOA with good handloads). When the thicker forearm series (181 and above) came out, the accuracy was poorer, and the first ranch rifles were about the same). Somewhere in the past I remember reading several articles (on the internet) about refitting the gas block. They said it was most of the problem......... something to do with the GB being clamped tightly and unevenly along with the slide banging the back of it. Once refitted the articles claimed much better accuracy.

[Lloyd Smale]

never had much luck with accuracy with them. I had two mini 14s and a mini 30 and ended up peddling them all off on ars. If i could find an old all wood stock one like you did i would consider it though. Buddy has one and its just cool looking.

[Ragnarok]

I figure my stainless mini shoots ok because the gas block is set-up properly..and the op-rod touches it properly...and because the stock's forearm hooks into the gas block with proper fit..but has some gap up at the front end between the end of the stock and the gas block(so it doesn't push against the block warping the barrel).

Maybe the stainless helps...maybe not.

This particular Mini 14 buttstock has pretty crappy fitting inletting for the action and triggerguard! The action clamps up tight...but with the trigger assembly removed..the action can slide side to side about an 1/8" or so! Stick(force) the trigger-group into place..and it wedges the action against one side of the stock:???: however the triggerguard itself is wedged against the other side of the stock!!....Almost like the top inletting for the barreled action isn't quite lined up with the trigger group inletting.....hard to describe but doesn't look like it would be a prefered stock-fit for accuracy...About all I can see that the action inletting adds to my mini's accuracy is a tight fit!:mrgreen:

[Jailer]

I personaly wonder if maybe Ruger made sure LEO contract guns met a accuracy standard.



4 inches at 100 yards. If it shoots outside that then they replace the barrel.


The original 180 series (the one it was introduced in with the thinner forend) were excellent shooters (something on the order of MOA with good handloads). When the thicker forearm series (181 and above) came out, the accuracy was poorer, and the first ranch rifles were about the same). Somewhere in the past I remember reading several articles (on the internet) about refitting the gas block. They said it was most of the problem......... something to do with the GB being clamped tightly and unevenly along with the slide banging the back of it. Once refitted the articles claimed much better accuracy.

Gas block fit has a lot to do with the accuracy of the rifle as long as it's a reletively decent shooter to begin with.

[JeffinNZ]

If you want an accurate Mini 14 buy the new Target model with the thumbhole stock. They are very good. You'll spend the same amount of money making your sow's ear into something that might be a silk purse.

[Uncle R.]

I've always thought the mini was a nice looking little rifle. I owned a mini-30 and shot a lot of mini-14s and knew a lot of people who owned 'em. Some of those people tuned and modified their minis and tried to get 'em to shoot with results that ranged from poor to dismal. I have never personally known of one that was very accurate - but some say it has happened.
<
I've owned a few and known of a lot more and it's been my experience that Ruger rifles of all types are far too likely to give unsatisfactory accuracy. One or two specimens could be happenstance but after many years and many examples of poor shooting Rugers I have to believe that they knew and didn't care.
<
It's probably just a good business decision - after all there are ten times more Bubbas out there than real riflemen. If it looks nice, goes bang when you pull the trigger and keeps 'em mostly on a beer can at 100 yards that's good enough for Bubba. Heck - that's all Bubba can use anyway.
<
As for me - I agree with the Colonel. Only accurate rifles are interesting. I ain't much interested in Ruger rifles any more, and I seriously ain't interested in the mini-14 or mini-30.
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Uncle R.

[W.R.Buchanan]

To answer your question: The most critical item is to tone down the gas system so the gun doesn't eject spent shells 40 feet!

This can be done several ways. On mine I got an Accuracy Systems adjustable gas piston. I had to drill a hole in my gas block for the adustment screw. Put it in, closed the screw, and opened it one turn.

Now the gun poops spent shells out 3 feet to the right.

Why does this affect accuracy?

With the gas system wide open everytime you fire the gun the operating rod which has a large piece of steel on it, hits the front of the receiver so hard that it repositions the action in the stock!

Obvously this affects accuracy negatively.

All accuracy tips for Garands apply to minis as well. Main one being the action must have tension on it in the stock just like a Garand does..

Mine consistantly shoots just about anything inside of 1.5" at 100 yds. I shoot alot of 55 gr Wolf ammo and an assortment of 55 gr brass cased ammo mostly Remington. It is an easy gun to shoot and operate.

ONLY USE RUGER BRAND MAGAZINES !!!!! Do not question this,,, just do it!

As far as reloads I have not shot any yet but I have about 1300 cases of various brands and they will be loaded with Midway 55 gr bullets, and /or some other recycled 55 or 62 gr bullets .

You only need one load for this gun, and once you've settled on it, and it functions fine, just shoot the hell out of it. Once the gun has 500 or so rounds thru it it should be settled in and just keep plugging along.

At least mine does. I would also recommend getting a newer one. Mine was made in 05.

If you don't choke the gas system down it just beats the gun to death.

I don't understand why Ruger does this?

Randy

[Four Fingers of Death]

ONLY USE RUGER BRAND MAGAZINES !!!!! Do not question this,,, just do it!


I have to back this one up, at one stage, we went through every armoury in every prison and every tower, collecting non Ruger mags and issuing new magazines. Problem solved!

[303Guy]

I bedded mine and used particular bullets and powder and it shot under 1½ MOA all day. It ejected too violently which damaged the scope finish and occasionally jammed a case in the ejection port against the scope mount. I changed the gas port 'grommet' to a smaller holed one and that solved that problem. It was a great little rifle, very reliable and fairy accurate to within minute of beer can at 200 meters. Most of my targets required better than that but out to 150m anything I aimed at was in big trouble. I should have kept that rifle! I think it was the original series. My buddy had one and it too was pretty accurate. Hopeless with factory ammo (by hopeless I mean 3 MOA).

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes 303 guy changing the orifice is another way to choke the gas system down The same outfit www.accuracysystems.com has a kit of three different ones you can buy for @$15.

They also sell barrels and complete rifle redos as well as a variety of accessories, sights etc.

My fixed gas piston was $35 and I chose that method because of the instant adjustability.

I also installed a bumper pad on the front of the receiver so when the op rod hits it, it is cushioned.

My gun is an aboslute joy to shoot in a rifle class type environment where you are going to shoot 2-500 rounds in a few days. It is much easier to operate than an AR, and all of the clearing drills and administraitve functions are also much easier to execute. Also it doesn't need to be cleaned very often. IN fact I haven't cleaned mine at all. It has never malfunctioned since I threw the "non Ruger mags" away the day after I found out they were Ship.

I think 500 rounds with no malfunctions is a decent record. The guns operating system is a much more reliable platform than the AR system for several reasons, 1. It is the Garand system which is battle proven reliable in dirt, and 2. it is a piston driven system, something that has only come into vogue in the AR platform recently. 3. it is made from steel, which no matter how you cut it, is just stronger and more durable than aluminum.

I know many will argue these points but really there is no arguement as it is all just the way things are. The only consistant complaint I hear about Mini's is the accuracy issues. If this point was mute, then the scales would tip immediately to the Mini14.

Bill Ruger was told buy the then Sec of Defense McNamara?, that if the Mini 14 would have been ready 2 years earlier there would have been no AR-15.

Can you imagine what these guns would have been like with the 40 years of intense battle driven development that the AR/M16 has gotten?

There would be pages and pages of Mini14 parts in everybodies catalogs and only a few things for AR's

I think all the negaitve comments you hear about the Mini 14 would then read differently,,, more like " that damn AR 15,,,,, blah, blah ,blah.."

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

All of the above blurb not withstanding, everybody needs to know how to run an AR. You are more likely to find one of those laying around in SHTF situation than a Mini14.

I shot one this last weekend in a club three gun shoot and it was someone elses gun.

I got second place with 9 hits on the dueling tree at 65 yards in 7.02 seconds! The owner of the gun got first place with 9 hits in 5.48 sec. Nobody else even broke 15 seconds or hit every target!.

I have shot less than 100 rounds thru an AR in my life, and that counts the 60 rounds shot in qualifying in the AF in 1969.

Still,,, when in those classes I participate in, I pay attention to what is being said about all of the different systems,,, cuz you never know.

It paid off last Sunday.

Randy

[Silver Hand]

Enjoyed this old thread!
Having purchased a new 182 SS series Mini 14 back when SS was the newest material in firearms. $210.90 dealer cost back then and if you could get your hands on one retail was $650.00.
This little truck gun never having a factory round through it has always fired and placed a 55gr, Hornedy - sx or sp using 25.6 grains of imr4895 inside of two inches or so [not much out from that] between 50 and 75 yards, the best my young eyes could see back then. I keep reading about accuracy problems but never really expected a tack driver even then given I had no intentions to ever put a scope on it. My old Stainless 182 always shot I thought as good as I could see.
It was quite interesting recently reading so many people are having problems with so many of those old guns. I don't heat mine up to do the things I do.
So there is something to there being at least a few around that will shoot fair considering the open sights.
Silver Hand

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am constantly involved with my Mini 14 as I blather on the Perfect Union site which is the goto place for Mini talk.

My gun is a 580 series 2005 made. The 582's seem to have had some problems, but the 583's and now 584's are the best Ruger has ever made.

Recently if you watch the BS on TV about San Bernardino you would have seen that all the cops had Minis strapped on them. No AR's as that agency ahs gotten rid of all their Ex mil surplus M16's in favor of non Black Gun Looking Mini's. Political Correctness being a consideration in CA, but the fact they are giving up no firepower whatsoever is partly a consideration as well. Cops don't need Full Auto Weapons,,, usually.

They also just purchased another 100 guns from Ruger at the SHOT Show a few weeks ago. Many other Police agencies are going this route as well.

I see a long future for this platform as it has many benefits and few negatives.

It kind of Funny as right now the CMP has released a bunch of M1 Carbines which everyone is fighting over. The only problem with these guns is the cartridge they were ALL made in. The Mini14 was designed specifically as a replacement for the M1 Carbine in a better cartridge and in fact now in several better cartridges. .223, 7.62x39, 6.8SPC, and now .300 BLK.

I sold my M1 Carbine in 1978 and whereas it could be a useful firearm for shooting small people, I never really found a use for it. The Mini on the other hand I have many uses for. And as far as a Battle Rifle? If you ran out of ammo the Mini would make a lot better club than an AR any day. Mine weighs 8 lbs 6oz!

Randy

[sghart3578]

This thread brings up a bad memory for me and an experience with Ruger that still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm not an operator and I don't claim to be. I don't plan on SHTF scenarios, necessarily, but I have always wanted a nice, accurate semi-auto in 223/5.56.

In 1995 I bought a brand new Ruger Mini 14. This was a year or so after I bought my Ruger Vaquero, one of the first ones. I loved that gun. Still do. So the idea of a Ruger built M14 clone that I could afford to buy and also afford to shoot was irresistible.

To sum up, that rifle shot like ****. I am not a marksman but I can usually hit a paper plate at 50 yards without too much trouble, except with that g****dam mini 14. I didn't reload for 223 back then so all I shot were factory rounds.

The cold barrel zero was never consistent and as the barrel heated up it was anybody's guess where the round would land. It was like closing your eyes and throwing darts at the dart board.

I would put the mini 14 down and pick up my SKS from the Tula armory, circa 1953? and put all ten in a 2" circle at the same distance, from the first shot to the tenth shot, stripper clip after stripper clip. With cheap Chicom ammo!

It embarrassed me no end. In 2002 I sold that gun to an aquaintance with full disclosures and he is still mad at me.

In the prevailing 20 odd years I have owned ten or so Rugers from revolvers to semi-auto pistols to bolt action rifles to 10-22's. Only about half of those were acceptably accurate. It beats me why anyone still buys any Ruger products at all. They generally suck.

They work, they function, they don't tend to break. But they suck none the less.


P.S. To satisfy my craving for an accurate semi auto 223 I recently built an AR15 kit rifle with parts from Palmetto State Armory. That gun kicks *** and shoots circles around that mini 14. I don't know why I waited so long to get one.

[W.R.Buchanan]

sghart: I hear your frustration. Early Mini 14's were an odd lot, and a goodly number of them were total garbage.

The newest ones however are pretty good guns. Also Mini 30's are a good bet if you shoot 7.62x39 ammo.

The thing about Mini 14's is that you have to accept the fact that they are not "One Hole Guns." However they do shoot and are reliable as long as you feed them with Ruger Mags. Accuracy varies with the type of ammo you shoot in them. I have shot a lot of both and stuff like Wolf and Tula are 3"+ at 100 yards, but Federal American Eagle is well under 2". My reloads are under 2" as well, and sometimes better.

Either type of ammo is more than accurate enough at 300 yards to do the job intended for this rifle, and with that in mind the guns do perform well.

No they are not tack drivers, but they are effective.

You done good on that Palmetto gun. I have been looking at their Rifle kits to complete a Lower I have had for some years now. They make good and relatively inexpensive AR's.

I have found that very few people can actually realize the benefits of or supposed quality of an expensive AR. They just don't shoot enough to get what they paid for.

Randy

[TCLouis]

So as I remember the ads, Chief AJ (??) would work one over and have it MOA shooter.

What did he correct to make them a shooter?

A fellow range control worker asked me to help him sight in one bought.
One could never predict where the next round would land, no matter what the scope adjustment was, or even if there was no scope adjustment.

NO better with irons as I remember.

[sghart3578]

So as I remember the ads, Chief AJ (??) would work one over and have it MOA shooter.

What did he correct to make them a shooter?

A fellow range control worker asked me to help him sight in one bought.
One could never predict where the next round would land, no matter what the scope adjustment was, or even if there was no scope adjustment.

NO better with irons as I remember.


This is the exact same experience I had with mine years ago.

Some guys say the new ones are better but who needs it? I now have an AR15 that shoots brilliantly with all of my handloads and doesn't take expensive proprietary magazines.

The Mini 14 was a Ruger bungle that could have been one of history's great civilian firearms. It needed better quality control and it should have been designed to take AR magazines from the start.


Steve in N CA

[W.R.Buchanan]

Steve: It was designed to be a replacement for the M1Carbine which was last produced for the Military in 1945.

Ruger was guilty of bad QC up til about 1997, simply because there wasn't that much demand for the gun, and then things started to change. It has gotten much better but still needs a just little more.

Since you aren't going to buy one the fact that the current series (583) are the best ones ever made won't impress you. But believe me they are good guns and I might add that a good portion of the Naysayers have never even shot one, let alone owned one. They just like to spread the hate on the nternet.

The guns are not Tack Drivers, although there is ways to make them into Tack Drivers. But they were designed originally to mimic Military weapons of the day. They are generally very reliable guns, and the vast majority of the older ones will hold 2-3" at 100 yards despite what the haters would have you believe. 3" is better than acceptable Battlefield Accuracy since the practical limit to the cartridge is 300 yards anyway.

I might add that if the Mini 14 had seen the amount of development that the M16/M4 has had,,, it would be a completely different gun.

The M16 I shot in Air Force Basic Training in 1969 put every shot (60 ea) thru the target sideways. Since the guns had only been in service a few years they were hardly worn out but instead had 1-12" or 1-14" twist barrels which wouldn't stabilize the 55 gr bullets on a bet.

WE were told in basic that they were designed "to tumble." To wit, I stood up and said "Not before they hit the target!" and was ordered to "drop and give 20." I already knew about rifles and how they were supposed to work and the fact that even though every shot key holed, it was still on target, and I got my Marksmanship Ribbon.

I was not impressed with the gun and they didn't really show us how to run it very well at all. I didn't buy one until 2013.

I only started shooting AR's 2-3 years ago and I am going to Front Sight in a couple of weeks to further my understanding and abilities in running and shooting one. They are with out question the most complicated Auto Rifle to run there is. The Mini is not it is simple like a Garand or M14.

And the reason why they didn't use AR mags is because AR's really didn't exist anywhere outside the Military when the Mini 14 was designed, also since the gun was designed to be a smaller M 14 the mags needed to rock in like a big M14's mags do. Thus the current design.

Too bad you've taken a set on this gun as they are a lot of fun to shoot and once you understand their limitations they are very usable. Incidentally I can hit a 8x10 steel target off a rest every single time at 200 yards with mine. For what I use the gun for (shooting steel targets) that's good enough accuracy, and the gun never malfunctions when shooting along string of targets. So reliability and acceptable accuracy Trump a finicky AR any day.

Your AR is a product of 50+ years of development. And had the Mini been adopted instead of the AR you'd be saying the same thing about the AR.

Randy

[sghart3578]

Randy,

We will have to agree to disagree I suppose. I did own a Mini 14 at one time. I plunked down my money so I feel my opinion is valid. I shoot regularly with a fellow who owns two and neither are satisfactory. There are more than a few people turned off by the Ruger.

Inadequate research and lack of attention to QC is no excuse. In fact it makes it worse.

I am going to exit this thread hoping to stay friends with everyone. But I will leave with this article. It was written by a policeman who was responsible for training other cops.

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/hating-on-the-ruger-mini-14

Best of luck.



Steve in N CA

[M-Tecs]

I currently own an original 601 upper with a 14 twist and a numerous 604's with the 12 twist. All stabilize 55 grain GI ball (M193) very well. The rifles a AF BMT average over a 1,000 rounds a week. Barrel life is measured in months.

[KLR]

Randy,

We will have to agree to disagree I suppose. I did own a Mini 14 at one time. I plunked down my money so I feel my opinion is valid.



Amen. My Ranch Rifle was horribly inaccurate. I wasted my money and time trying to get it to shoot. It would have been unethical to use the rifle to hunt varmints at anything over 50 yds.

Pre-internet days, so I only talked to a few shooters with experience with the Mini. All cited accuracy problems and none kept their rifle.

I don't know about the majority of Minis out there, only mine. However, I can't understand why Ruger redesigned the barrel if it was adequate, and why all those strut systems exist.

No unfounded hate, just my data point. But if I have to be a hater, that rifle certainly earned it.

[primersp]

I have one on thé 90 ,un 222 rem ,due thé législation hère.I put à flash! Hider ,is thé weight damped thé barrel?
Thé gun scopped shoots 2 "at 100m
André

[Hickok]

I had a Mini .223 and a Mini 30 years ago before the newer "better?" ones came out. Thought the first one was a fluke, so dumb me, bought another one.

If I wanted to hit a groundhog in the head with either one, just to be 100% sure of connecting, I had to be in shotgun range, about 35 yards.:violin:

You never knew about the grouping, one group was good, next group,....."what the Sam Hill is going on!" It was difficult to get a good solid "zero" with them. You just could not be sure where the next round was tracking with the sights.

I gave up on Mini's.

[sghart3578]

I had a Mini .223 and a Mini 30 years ago before the newer "better?" ones came out. Thought the first one was a fluke, so dumb me, bought another one.

If I wanted to hit a groundhog in the head with either one, just to be 100% sure of connecting, I had to be in shotgun range, about 35 yards.:violin:

You never knew about the grouping, one group was good, next group,....."what the Sam Hill is going on!" It was difficult to get a good solid "zero" with them. You just could not be sure where the next round was tracking with the sights.

I gave up on Mini's.


You and me both brother.

I'm sure that there are some good ones out there, there are too many stories going around from guys that own them. I have never seen one in person.

I have a limited amount of money to spend on guns so buying three or four Mini 14's to find one good one is not an option.


Steve in N CA

[Uncle R.]

If I'm a hater, so be it.

My opinions on Minis are based not on things I saw on YouTube, but on my own experience with the rifle I owned and my friends' experience with rifles they owned. I know what my mini 30 did, I know how I tried many different loads and bullets with lackluster results. I know how my Chinese SKS could handily beat the Ruger in accuracy if I used the same ammo I shot in the Mini. I know how some of my friends struggled with their mini-14s and how some of them spent big bucks on modifications in search of accuracy. I was there - I saw their groups, I shot their guns, I saw their frustration.

I know any of my several ARs will shoot WAY better than any Mini I've ever seen - and I've seen a lot of 'em. Again - this is not what I've read on the internet, but what I've seen with my own eyes, and many times.


Maybe the new Minis are better. They certainly had acres of room for improvement. Why should I care? After being burned on Minis before, why would I buy another in the hope that maybe this time it will be better? For the same money, maybe even a little less, I can buy an AR that almost certainly will be more accurate than any Mini, even the vaunted new production rifles. The AR sounds like a deal to me.

Minis? Bah!

Uncle R.

[Rick Hodges]

I own a mini and an AR both Rugers. My mini when stock would shoot 2 1/2-3" groups at 100yds. I spent a ton of money and now have a very heavy mini that will shoot most anything into 1 1/2" or less at 100yds. (New Barrel, bedding, gas port work etc. etc. etc.)
I recently purchased a AR 5.56 Ruger for less money than they want for the new Mini....and it shoots as good as my tricked Mini and is handier and 2 pounds lighter.
Maybe because I went through basic training with the M-16, but I think the AR platform is simple to run...easier to clean, easier to repair, easier to modify....there is no comparison. Given the choice I would take the AR every time.

[W.R.Buchanan]

my gawd! The policeman in the article stated that they ran 200,000 rounds thru 4 Mini 14's? How many guns will last thru 50,000 rounds and not have some problems? Also the pic in the article was of an old one, not a new gun. Also please note that the San Bernardino Police are carrying Mini's and just bought another 100 of them from Ruger at the SHOT Show. They must be terrible.

As far as reliability,,, it has been common knowledge for 30 years that the guns only function right with Ruger Mags, but still this cop tried to use an aftermarket mag to run his qualification? Sounds kind of dumb? My gun was used and came with a Pro Mag 10 rounder that has never ran a full load of 10 rounds without malfunction. It runs fine with the Ruger Mags.

The finger in the trigger guard is allowed even at Front Sight which trains 80,000 people a year. It is the same Manual of Arms as the M1 Garand, and the M14, and nobody complained about having your finger in the trigger guard with those. However common training dictates that your finger is outside the trigger guard until you go to the ready position in which case you cover the safety. There as 7 million Garands made over about 10 years not counting the clones,,, if the safety was a problem they probably would have changed it? Also the cop missed that little fine point.

Clearing malfunctions with a Mini is much easier as the whole top of the action is wide open. If you ever have your finger in the hole trying to dislodge a double feed with an AR and have the bolt slam shut on your finger you will rethink that point. They commonly teach using your left hand to clear the malfunction because you are less likely to trip the bolt release and if you do, you still have your trigger finger in tact. AR's can be vicious. Mini's not so much.

I will admit that the normal range of accuracy from Mini's is below that of AR's. However the reasons for that are due to the guns bleeding off too much gas. A simple $5 bushing fixes that.

Customizing? There are right now about 15 different versions of the Mini. Pick one. and yes there is more stuff for AR's but there is little needed for a Mini. A good Sling and a Red Dot Sight is all I've done to mine and it routinely places me well up in competitions against young guys with very expensive AR's. This is usually attributable to the fact that they spent so much money on their guns that they didn't have any left over for training lessons on how to run and shoot their guns.

They also didn't realize that "any gun will do, if you will do."

So yes we are disagreeing on this one,,, nobodies right 100% of the time.

Incidentally I find that cops are usually not the best shooters out there. I think I could run circles around the guy in the article. Why they won't practice more is beyond me.

Randy

[Bullwolf]

I have an older Mini-30 196 series. Judging by the serial number, it's from around 2002-2003 manufacture. Mine also has the pencil thin barrel.

Ruger Mini Thirty Serial Number History.
http://www.ruger.com/service/product...iniThirty.html (http://www.ruger.com/service/productHistory/RI-MiniThirty.html)

I added a barrel stabilizing strut to my Ruger Mini-30. While it likely won't ever be a sub MOA rifle, adding the strut to my Mini-30 tightened things up considerably.

Here's the first 20 round group I fired through it, into a sight in target back on 11/19/2012.

At the time I was dialing in the scope on my Mini-30 at 50 yards, using Winchester White box ammo to test functionality, and also because I wanted some more boxer primed re-loadable 7.62x39 brass to play around with.

It took me 4 shots to center the scope, and walk the hits down & left into the Bullseye. (covered by the 4 black target dots on the right side of the target) I was quite pleased with the remaining group. Especially so since I was only shooting bulk inexpensive ammunition, and not hand loads.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65861&d=1354077744

I'm not the most accurate target shooter with a rifle, and this is definitely not a cherry picked group. It is however the only target that I have a picture of. I think it also shows that the rifle is capable of somewhat decent accuracy.

I decided to go with an Accu-strut, rather than a Har-Bar, a Mo-rod, or even trying to fabricate some kind of barrel strut myself.

http://www.accu-strut.com/

Heck, I even like the way the strut looks. (it reminds me of an M14) I can't even feel that it's up front. Supposedly the strut helps prevent barrel whip, and the random stringing issues others report from warmed up barrels, or overly gassed rifles.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65859&d=1354078890

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65860&d=1354078868

The Mini-30 reminds me of a larger M1 30 carbine, and is easy for me to pick up and transition to. It feels much like my M1 Garand, M1 carbine, or any other M14 pattern rifle to me. It's like having a scope friendly stainless SKS, only with more familiar controls and a nicer magazine. I like it lots, and hope mine isn't just one of the rare nice ones.

My particular Ruger Mini-30 is a Ranch Rifle, and that's exactly what I purchased it to be. An all weather friendly stainless steel rifle with a polymer stock, to kick around on the Ranch. I will likely never hunt with a semi auto rifle, but I suspect it is accurate enough to take a down a deer, or coyote if need be.

I won't be using mine for competition or anything like that, but my rifle shoots nicer groups than most of the people I've sat next to at the public range shooting AR pattern rifles.

I'm not saying that the Ruger Mini rifles are more accurate than a decent AR, just that in my experience most people don't shoot all that great in general, and would likely never notice the difference. Even more so if they were just ignorantly blasting away and making noise, while shooting the least expensive steel cased ammunition found on the shelf at Wally World.

After reading all the internet horror stories about the terrible accuracy of these rifles, I would have felt a lot better if I could have shot mine first, or bought a known rifle from a friend. It turns out that I was worried about nothing.

While I have never owned a Mini-14 rifle, and just the Mini-30, I have a few friends and family who do, but I have had only a limited amount of experience with them. Unfortunately, most of the Mini-14 owners I know don't shoot at paper. (only at tin cans, or steel) So I haven't formed much of an opinion about the Mini-14's 100 yard accuracy potential, or lack there of. I'd be more likely to use a bolt action rifle to shoot varmints or p-dogs with, than a Mini-14.

The Mini-14's that I've been around have always functioned well, and manage to ring steel, or bounce a can around. They do what they were made to do just fine.


- Bullwolf

[Uncle R.]

If I got a 2 inch group at 50 yards from one of my scoped ARs I'd be very unhappy. I would expect a scoped AR to do much better than that.

I get the point about ergonomics.
I like the way Minis look.
I like the way Minis operate.
I always thought Minis would be really cool if only they would shoot better.
I just can't get past the poor accuracy.

I posted here a long time ago about how I resisted buying my first AR back in the 80s. At that point in my learning I hated the look, the ergonomics, the plastic, the aluminum, just everything about 'em. That was why I was studying Minis, talking to my friends and other competitors, trying to find something that wasn't an AR that could compete in the matches I was shooting in. I wasn't biased in favor of ARs - I was biased against 'em.

I finally bought a National Match M1A.
Yep, looks and operates like a Mini.
It wouldn't quite deliver at the mystical 1 MOA level, but it came VERY close. I loved the dang thing then and I still do, but it's awfully big and heavy, and it kicks too much to allow the speed of fire required in most matches I shoot. For those rare situations where I need to deliver a powerful blow with accuracy or at a long distance it's hard to beat, but most of the time it stays in the safe and I use an AR.

Different people have different expectations or requirements for their guns.
For what I want to do with a .223 accuracy matters, and 3 MOA doesn't cut it.
If you're only concerned about police work or shooting bigger critters like coyotes at under 200 yards 3 MOA might be just fine. Even then, I wouldn't settle for the 3 MOA rifle when for the same money I could have a 1 MOA rifle that's reliable, easily scoped, easily fitted with match grade trigger if desired, etc, etc.


Different strokes and all that, but for myself I have no use for Minis. If they made a Mini with a good trigger and consistent MOA accuracy, and offered it for the same price as a "mid-level" AR I'd stand in line to buy it. Until then, I'd spend the money on an AR and get better performance for my bucks.
As usual JMHO and YMMV.

Uncle R

[Hickok]

Uncle R, pretty much sums it up for me too. Love my AR and my M1a NM.

I truly like the "feel" and the way a Mini handles, but the accuracy just doesn't come up to what I want and need in this rifle.

Just a bummer, it could be a swell little carbine.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I guess my whole point about these guns is that most people think they need super duper accuracy, but can't really achieve it due to their inability to actually shoot that well.

I can see needing the accuracy in a Bullseye Target Environment, or maybe shooting varmints. Anything other than that, and especially if shooting off hand, 99% of shooters can't hold well enough to know for sure if it is the gun or them. As a result they couldn't definitively say if the gun was a 1,2 or 3 MOA Gun. Lots of people couldn't tell the difference even if they were shooting off the bench.

Hence for the intended purposes of plinking and killing people the Mini 14 would be as good as any other gun in their hands.

Lots of people tend to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions and blame other things, usually inanimate objects which can't object, for their failures.

I personally feel the Mini 14's history has largely been a victim of those types. If the gun was really that bad do you actually think Ruger would still make them and ask $800-1000 for them?

Randy

[sghart3578]

Ruger still makes them because there are new gun buyers entering the market with no historical knowledge.

Mediocre firearms are stilled manufactured and sold because the majority of gun owners will rarely fire their guns. Ruger and the others know this. They count on it. I would guess that I fire 500 rounds per month in various guns that I own. I'm sure most people on this forum do the same or much more.

However, the vast majority guns are bought by people who don't reload and may only have enough money to shoot once a year if that. Buyers like this don't concern themselves with accuracy.

I see them all the time at the range. Expensive guns that can't hit a paper plate at 50 yards. In these cases it is not the gun. You give this guy a Mini 14 and he doesn't care if he can't hit anything. He has a "cool" gun. I submit that this accounts for a lot of the sales not just of Mini 14's but guns in general.

[W.R.Buchanan]

And we do agree on that point, [smilie=w:[smilie=w:and with the internet, that guy can now voice his opinion on a gun that he thinks is bad, but couldn't prove it on a bet,,, simply because, as we agree, he can't shoot that well to begin with. There will also be lots of people influenced by his words, even though he doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. There will also lots of people who spread his BS far and wide.

And there in lies the vast majority of Mini14 problems.

Goto to http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/ruger-mini-14-mini-30/

See and read what real Mini aficionados have to say about the gun and fixing the common problems. This community is the goto place to see about all things Mini, and yes there are a few detractors. But by and large most people are very happy with their guns and would not trade them for AR's.

All guns have problems and if they didn't we'd not have much to talk about here. :mrgreen:

One other tidbit. You just did a Palmetto AR right? That gun didn't exist 10 years ago, and neither did many of the other AR's that are available today. Only after the AWB got lifted in 2003 or 4 did the myriad of gun companies pop up and start mass producing AR's.

Now even Ruger makes a $600 AR and so does lots of other outfits. I'm building a Del-Ton 20" A3 Rifle with a lower that was made in the 1990's from an outfit that I'd never heard of and has long since gone away. The gun will cost me about $600 to complete as I want a chrome lined barrel and Magpul furniture which are all options for any Del-Ton gun.

So I can buy the Rifle kit with the options I want, for a set price directly from the company! Now that's service. And the modular nature of the gun allows this to take place. It's like a VW Bug which arguably had more aftermarket stuff made for it than any other machine in history!

If Hildegard gets elected and the people vote for another Democrat Congress you can bet that ban will get reinstated and all those companies will go away in a heartbeat.

You can also bet that they will try to come for the guns !

If that happens we need all the guns we can get. and Mini's will be near the top of that list.

Short List: Glocks, AR's AK's, Minis.

It's good we discuss this stuff as it adds civil content to this site. It also gives me something to do while waiting for breakfast. :coffee:

Randy

[KLR]

In a quirk of fate (or fit of temporary insanity), I stumbled on a good deal on a new Mini-14 and couldn't resist. I'm going to wring it out and post a thread with the results.

It will either be titled: "Randy was Right" or "Randy is Full of It." :kidding: :bigsmyl2:

[W.R.Buchanan]

I can't wait! :holysheep

Which Model?

Break the barrel in right and use decent ammo like Fed American Eagle which is only $7.44 a box at Walmart. Only use Ruger Mags!

Do contact me for the simple mods it you can do to get it run to it's highest potential.

Also look to http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/ruger-mini-14-mini-30/ for the best Mini 14 info. It's kind of like the Enfield site but for Mini's and with more people.

Randy

[KLR]

It's a wood stock, blue Ranch in .223. I planned on using reloads with the Hornady, Speer, Sierra, and Nosler bullets I have on hand, but maybe I'll get some of those Feds to give a baseline.

I'll do some research and then shoot you a pm about those mods.

Thanks.

[J257]

I bought a 580 series when they first came out. I may have just got a good one but mine shoots my reloads right at an inch- Remington 55 grain 1 1/4 - Wolf 62 gr.hp 1 5/8's with an occasional flyer. I don't shoot for speed and I do keep the barrel clean. My ranch rifle is my go to truck and kick around rifle. I've killed everything from squirrels to bears and it's never jammed. The first buck I shot with it was 180 yards - plenty accurate for a clean neck shot. I really enjoy mine but to be fair, I've never owned one of the older ones with "issues".

[liliysdad]

Any law enforcement agency that is still using the Mini 14, let alone buying new ones, is a broken agency that has let political correctness override common sense. There is absolutely nothing the Mini does that an AR platform rifle does not do better. Nothing.

As for ease of use, there is not a rifle made that is easier to operate than the AR. After attending, and administering, a number of patrol rifle courses, I have yet to see a Mini that approached the accuracy and reliability of even the cheapest AR. Training recruits who have never held a rifle, let alone shot one, has proven the simplicity of the platform. I shudder to think about doing the same with the Mini 14.

[Outpost75]

I personally heard William B. Ruger say this of the Mini-14:

"It doesn't need to be any better than that, for farm boys who are going to shoot at cans...."

[sghart3578]

I personally heard William B. Ruger say this of the Mini-14:

"It doesn't need to be any better than that, for farm boys who are going to shoot at cans...."


Just one more reason why I hate Ruger.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Any law enforcement agency that is still using the Mini 14, let alone buying new ones, is a broken agency that has let political correctness override common sense. There is absolutely nothing the Mini does that an AR platform rifle does not do better. Nothing.

As for ease of use, there is not a rifle made that is easier to operate than the AR. After attending, and administering, a number of patrol rifle courses, I have yet to see a Mini that approached the accuracy and reliability of even the cheapest AR. Training recruits who have never held a rifle, let alone shot one, has proven the simplicity of the platform. I shudder to think about doing the same with the Mini 14.

First off: Your comments about the Mini being harder to operate than an AR are simply false. The Manual of Arms for a Mini 14 is exactly the same as the Maxi 14 and nearly the same for a Garand, and as such are considerably simpler to master than the AR platform.. They came first and most consider the fact that the M16 platform was not a huge improvement, and until they worked the bugs out, a significant downgrade. It took them 25 years to figure that gun out, and get it to be truly reliable enough for Combat. Accuracy means little when you are being shot at and your gun is inoperable, and plenty of men in Viet Nam found this out first hand..

When an AR double feeds it is a nightmare to clear and if you do it improperly it can easily result in a smashed trigger finger which is kind of a problem in a gunfight. Anyone who has been educated on properly clearing this type of malfunction knows that you use your Left Hand to clear the mag well and chamber as it removes it from proximity to the bolt release which will inevitably get bumped when you use your right hand to clear the chamber, while holding the gun in your left hand.

I know this for a fact as I was drilled on it at Front Sight and already had the smashed trigger finger to prove it before I showed up.

A Mini has a wide open receiver on top and clearing it requires nothing more than locking the bolt open and flicking the offending round out of the top. And if you don't use aftermarket mags you probably won't have this problem anyway.

If you don't think that AR's malfunction, you have not shot one enough.

I might add that Mini 14's are more accurate than 99% of the people who shoot them, not to mention the fact that before 2003 when the Assault Weapons Ban was lifted you couldn't even legally own an AR in CA and many other states. So anything concerning the AR was a mute point.

If Hildegard gets Elected that ban will be put back in place and all our AR's will be outlawed! Go Trump!!!

The fact that San Berdo just bought 100 more at the SHOT Show (I saw it happen) means that they are completely comfortable with getting rid of their worn out Surplus Select Fire M16's (Cops don't need full auto, period!!!) and the Mini 14 fills the bill perfectly. Also for the PC crowd, which like it or not has significant power everywhere, it doesn't look like a military weapon. The Mini14 Weapons System doesn't give up 1 Iota of firepower to a trained adversary.

Nobody with any sense wants their Police Agencies to look like Military Contractors, and I'm sorry, but when I see cops roll up to a house in a neighborhood in a Bearcat, or worse yet an M113 Tracked APC, I'm kind of wondering exactly what they are thinking.

Overwhelming force wielded by Highly Trained Professional Military Personal is a far cry from "not that well trained Local Police" that won't even shoot but once a year. I really don't want to be caught in their Misdirected Full Auto Crossfire and Panic Shooting which we see on TV frequently. A man who shoots a kid with a knife 19 times when that kid is never closer than 50 feet, brings in to question his competence to be allowed to carry any firearm let alone a rifle with 30 rounds on board, it also begs the question, "why is he on that police force in the first place? With questions like this flying around in the media it only serves to reason that ALL Police Agencies in this country should be required to have their personnel shooting Rifle, Pistol, and Shotgun AT LEAST once a month to insure their continued competency with firearms. And once a year to an Accredited Shooting School "Not Department Ran" for all three as well just to get rid of any bad habits they have developed.

Only then and after Intense Psychological Screening should officers be released to active duty. IMHO.

Since this is never going to happen all we can hope is that the ones who do get in to gunfights are well enough equipped and trained with what ever weapons they are allowed to carry that they prevail and don't shoot too many innocents.

I would also like to point out that I,,, 66 year old fart, routinely out shoot my local police in local competitions with my Mini 14, my Kel Tec SU16 and my AR and my Glocks, simply because they just aren't that good. And if they aren't that good in the first place just changing their weapons is not likely to improve their performance a whole lot.

I subscribe to the notion that,,, "Any Gun will do, if you will do." And as far as this conversation is concerned,,, a Mini 14 will do just fine as long as you know how to run it.

I also subscribe to the notion that if a man chooses to carry a gun for a living, that he owes it to himself, as well as to the people that he is tasked to protect, to be as competent as humanly possible with those firearms. Any man who thinks he is that good and doesn't need to practice with his tools frequently is a fool and should be removed from his position of authority!

My .02

Randy

[dtknowles]

Any law enforcement agency that is still using the Mini 14, let alone buying new ones, is a broken agency that has let political correctness override common sense. There is absolutely nothing the Mini does that an AR platform rifle does not do better. Nothing.

As for ease of use, there is not a rifle made that is easier to operate than the AR. After attending, and administering, a number of patrol rifle courses, I have yet to see a Mini that approached the accuracy and reliability of even the cheapest AR. Training recruits who have never held a rifle, let alone shot one, has proven the simplicity of the platform. I shudder to think about doing the same with the Mini 14.

With an AR if you have a failure to fire you have to disturb your sight picture to cycle the action, can't keep the sights on the target. Not saying the AR is not the better gun, just never liked the way the AR operates. Charging handle is in a stupid place.

Tim

[Bob Busetti]

My mini 14 shot just fine after bedding the receiver like you bed the M1. Also the gas block has to have the 4 screws tightened evenly so there is an even gap on both sides. They also shoot very well when there is no magazine in the rifle, don't know why. But it makes the rifle a single shot of course.

[liliysdad]

First off: Blah blah...old guns are more better...blah..Vietnam...blah blah..poodle shooter...cops cant shoot....blah blah...cargo pants....blah..militarized police..

My .02

Randy

More of the same old curmudgeonly rhetoric. Luckily, the remainder of the world has seen past this nonsense. The AR platofrm has evolved, and continues to evolve, while the Mini 14 is all but dead on the vine.

[dtknowles]

More of the same old curmudgeonly rhetoric. Luckily, the remainder of the world has seen past this nonsense. The AR platofrm has evolved, and continues to evolve, while the Mini 14 is all but dead on the vine.

The Remington Rolling Block probably reached its zenith almost 150 years ago but it is still a fine firearm.

Tim

[liliysdad]

The Remington Rolling Block probably reached its zenith almost 150 years ago but it is still a fine firearm.

Tim

I can't argue with that, but fail to see how its relevant. The discussion at hand was the Mini as opposed to the predominat alternative, the AR15. I would argue that in relation to your statement, the Mini was never a fine firearm, and never had a zenith.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Decent ammunition is the first step, not the cheap 'blaster' stuff. Careful work on the trigger and checking torque on the gas block. If you slug the barrel you can feel constriction at the gas block if too tight. My Ranch rifle will do about 1.5 with LC76 'Mexican Match', Sierra 50grain substitute.

[W.R.Buchanan]

More of the same old curmudgeonly rhetoric. Luckily, the remainder of the world has seen past this nonsense. The AR platofrm has evolved, and continues to evolve, while the Mini 14 is all but dead on the vine.

The remainder of the world still shoots AK's!

If Mini's are Dead on the Vine, then why is Ruger selling so many of them and continuing to develop the rifle. Latest offering was a .300 BLK last year, as well as the Tactical Models which are selling well despite their $850+ price tags. These guns are only available in the US and Friendly countries that allow gun ownership. My highly placed friend in Ruger Management tells me they are shipping over 2000 Mini's per month.

Hardly, Dead on the vine!

AK's are available in every country in the world no matter if they are legal or not. AR's not so much.

You obviously don't like the gun and that's fine, but your assessment of it and it's capability are far from in touch with reality and show your complete lack of understanding of the Weapons System. If you're a cop and were pinned down with your service pistol (probably not a Glock) and one came sliding across the floor to you would you pick it up and shoot it, or would you complain that it wasn't an AR? I figure you should be competent with as many weapons systems as possible since you are more likely to get shot at than me?

The older guns did have some problems as did the AR's, But more people are paying attention to AR's now because of Market Saturation so you aren't seeing the whole picture.

Only in the last 12 years has AR development surged. Prior to that you couldn't even own an AR because of the AWB and the rifles out there were far from reliable or accurate. I had a Pre Ban Bushmaster and it was a finicky *** and wouldn't run an entire Mag to save itself. I traded it for my Marlin 1895 CB and got the better end of that trade.

Currently there is a lot of development on the AR Platform and it is strictly aimed at "Catching Fishermen, " not Fish. There's money to be made here as anything different will find a market for those who want something different. There have been few advancements in the system that have actually resulted in any significant improvements.(Piston Operation and refined manufacturing to name the two main ones)) There are already 50 different Triggers, and Charging Handles, tons of piece parts and Furniture, and probably 500 different upper receivers made by 100 different companies. I know of five different machine shops in my area that are making both upper and lower receivers and you've never heard of any of them. None of them do anything different. They are all the same thing, different day. Pretty big demand right now driving this and if they ever put a ban back on Assault Weapons it will all vanish over night.

Go Trump!

There is exactly one outfit making Mini 14's, and they have 100% of the Market Share,,, which is substantial enough to keep it alive for even your "less than Curmudgeonly, Lifetime."

And I like Poodles!

Randy