A fun poke at "engineers"

[gew98]

This past week I was present for a delightful jab at the expense of soem electrical engineer 'highly' educated types by a rather humble but very experianced electrician.
We were dealing with a problem that was created by engineers and their solution to their problem was simply more problems. They simply could not see how their 'new' solution only partially solved the original problem and yet created more real problems. The GC was absolutely at loss and vexed...until my friend clyde stepped in and explained eloquently the problem , and the actual solution that would not incur more problems and huge added costs to the taxpayers.
He ended his summation with this...which caused the GC to tell the engineers to go do it over and do it Clyde's way.... anyway here's the story he told to make the final point about engineers........

A redneck farmer had a new neighbor move in . On this land was a nice barn . The new neighbor well he was a mechanical engineer and seemed friendly enough. The engineer fellow decided he'd get a donkey just like his redneck farmer neighbor. Well off the truck the engineer tried to lead the mule into the barn. As soon as the donkey got to the barn door it's ears touched the top of the door jamb and it balked and ran off. He tried several more times and same result. The old farmer watched for several days as the engineer tried to push the donkey in the barn but every time the donkeys ears touched the door jamb it went running off. So one day the farmer saw cranes and heavy machines in his neighbors field and there he saw the engineer directing all the work to raise the barn up and build around it so. And in went the donkey finally. So the farmer walked over to the engineer fellow and said...I may be a dumb old farmer but you could have saved yourself alot of trouble maybe if you had just dug out a little dirt under the door and your donkey would have gone right in . The engineer excitedly blurted out.. you dumb old fool it's not his legs that are too long...it's his dang ears are too tall !.
Just goes to show all brain and no common sense makes jack a dullard.

[Matt_G]

There's a lot of that going 'round these days, 'specially in D.C.

[winelover]

Fits my BIL to a T!

Winelover

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

yup. the pessimist says the glass is half empty, the optimist says the glass is half full,
then engineer says you made the glass to big:veryconfu

[jcwit]

Aught to be here in Northern Indiana when an Amishman buys a house with an attached garage from an Englishman and they either have to raise the Garage door header and new garage door or dig a trench so the buggy wheels will allow the buggy into the garage.

Remember the buggies are quite abit taller than a car or even a P/U truck.

I've seen it done both ways.

[DLCTEX]

Reminds me of the story of the truck that was over height for the underpass by 3 inches and got firmly stuck. The engineers and experts tried for hours to solve the problem of getting it out, to no avail. Then a small boy asked why didn't they let the air out of the tires.

[Guesser]

I have been told that mechanical engineers build weapons; civil engineers build targets.

[Guesser]

Marine engineers build ships, only two types: Submarines, and targets!!

[contender1]

I have a saying about automotive engineers. (This is due to the complex things a person has to do just to perform routine maintence, or minor repairs that SHOULD be easy. Such as this evening, replacing a low beam headlight bulb in my wife's 1999 GMC Yukon. I had to remove the battery, the horn, and the parklight assy JUST to be able to HALFWAY be able to get the old bulb out & a new one installed. The park light assy just had 4 screws & it was an easy removal. Yet, the headlights are in a bolted down fixture, with NO easy access to the bulbs.
And this is just ONE example of STUPID engineers.) So,, here is my saying;

"One of these days, I'm gonna be in a social event, and I'll be politely conversing with the folks around, and I'll ask a guy what he does for a living. When he says he's an automobile engineer, he will experience an immediate blackout. When he wakes up in the hospital, all beaten & broken, I'll be there to show him what happened,,, again!"

[dk17hmr]

Sounds about right. Im no engineer but work with several.

The last company I worked for just had a new engineer transfer in from another office in Salt Lake City. He wanted a way to securely transport concrete block samples from the job site to another office about 3 hours away for testing, without jeopardizing the sample. The new engineer spent most of the day researching it and printed off several pictures of units other companies use. He showed me the pictures and told me what he wanted to do than proceeded to go draw plans, a materials list, and talk to my boss, who told him give Doug a picture he will have it done in no time.

By the time the new guy was done with all his BS I had 4 units built. He asked where my plans were so he could go over them, I laughed and said they are in my head but your welcome to draw them up based on my built unit. After some more jibber jabber I told him I studied Architecture in college, worked as a carpenter, and a cabinet builder/finish carpenter, I didnt need plans just needed a picture of what he wanted.....he told me that he honestly just thought I was a dumb redneck dirt worker based on my muddy jeans, camo ball cap, and lifted pickup.

Never underestimate the guy that does the work.

[sundog]

Upon receiving an "engineering degree" graduates should be required to serve an internship/residency with a 'journeyman',... as an APPRENTICE, a hey-boy step-n-fetch it peon. Only then should they be allowed to practice their profession.

[45 2.1]

Upon receiving an "engineering degree" graduates should be required to serve an internship/residency with a 'journeyman',... as an APPRENTICE, a hey-boy step-n-fetch it peon. Only then should they be allowed to practice their profession.

Well, thats exactly what happens............ to take a professional engineers test, you have to serve under a working professional engineer for four years. Then you have to get about five engineers willing to certify that you know your stuff,,,,,,,, then you take a two day test.......... then if you pass you get a professional license. In most of the industry you guys are talking about, things are designed then inspected by technical designers........... those fellows usually have degrees (though some don't) and are not licensed as engineers.................... Yep. until you have a minimum of 15 years practical experience, the stuff put out by them is usually really messed up.............................. Been there and seen to much of that.

[Ford SD]

I was working in Quality Control in a machine shop
the offfice people sent me a 4 year enginering student who worked for the company for 4 summers. the student wanted to review some prints and compare them to the actual product

The enginering student could not read a micrometer

I have worked with project managers that knew so little

One of them thought a gasket for a 3 in pipe was 3 inch in diameter
in fact it has a Id of 3-1/2 inch

Ask the Newbe for the Stainless magnet
or for a aluminum magnet [smilie=s:

[Artful]

By the time the new guy was done with all his BS I had 4 units built. He asked where my plans were so he could go over them, I laughed and said they are in my head but your welcome to draw them up based on my built unit. After some more jibber jabber I told him I studied Architecture in college, worked as a carpenter, and a cabinet builder/finish carpenter, I didnt need plans just needed a picture of what he wanted.....he told me that he honestly just thought I was a dumb redneck dirt worker based on my muddy jeans, camo ball cap, and lifted pickup.

Never underestimate the guy that does the work.



You missed your chance Doug, should have told him you'd draw up the plans at a business lunch - you could have doodled 'em on a napkin while he fed ya.

[Artful]

Ask the Newbe for the Stainless magnet or for a aluminum magnet [smilie=s:

I'm still looking for that Brass Magnet so I don't have to bend over :mrgreen:

But I finally found my left handed screw driver.

[zxcvbob]

Ask the Newbe for the Stainless magnet
or for a aluminum magnet [smilie=s:

Martensitic stainless steel is magnetic. (Ferritic stainless steel is also magnetic, but does not magnetize into a permanent magnet very well)

[geargnasher]

I have a saying about automotive engineers. (This is due to the complex things a person has to do just to perform routine maintence, or minor repairs that SHOULD be easy. Such as this evening, replacing a low beam headlight bulb in my wife's 1999 GMC Yukon. I had to remove the battery, the horn, and the parklight assy JUST to be able to HALFWAY be able to get the old bulb out & a new one installed. The park light assy just had 4 screws & it was an easy removal. Yet, the headlights are in a bolted down fixture, with NO easy access to the bulbs.
And this is just ONE example of STUPID engineers.) So,, here is my saying;

"One of these days, I'm gonna be in a social event, and I'll be politely conversing with the folks around, and I'll ask a guy what he does for a living. When he says he's an automobile engineer, he will experience an immediate blackout. When he wakes up in the hospital, all beaten & broken, I'll be there to show him what happened,,, again!"

Not sure why you did all that. '99 is a breakover year, I can't remember if it is the same as 2001 or 1997, GM changed different models from late '98 through 2001. If it's the older style, open the hood and remove the two long bolts that go straight down through the back of the headlamp housing with a nut driver and pull the housing straight out the front. There will be enough wire to pull it out far enough to reach behind the housing and twist out the lamp sockets so you can replace the bulbs. If it's the later body style, no tools are necessary, simply pop the two L-pins out of their locks by twisting them a few degrees, and pull them straight out the top. The lamp housing will then slide straight out the front as the previous style.

I've known several retired automotive engineers, I always joke with them that they're supposed to go in to a witness protection program when they retire so we don't hunt them down and do unmentionable things to them with the parts they design. There is a reason for every single part of every part on a vehicle, not always a GOOD reason, but a reason. Lots of times the breakdown occurs when the assembly teams establish their part of the process, and put things together differently than the engineers intended.

Things are rarely, if ever, designed with service and repair in mind, only how cheaply it can be made, EPA compliance, NHTSA compliance, DOT compliance, CAFE rating, streamlined assembly, will it make it out of warranty without bankrupting the manufacturer, and occasionally customer convenience/options/gee-whiz gizmos to help it sell.

Gear

[L1A1Rocker]

Any of you folks ever hear what an elephant really is?

















































A mouse built to Corp of Engineers specifications.

[Artful]

Any of you folks ever hear what an elephant really is?
A mouse built to Corp of Engineers specifications.

I thought that was a Camel was a product improved horse.

[zxcvbob]

Not sure why you did all that. '99 is a breakover year, I can't remember if it is the same as 2001 or 1997, GM changed different models from late '98 through 2001. If it's the older style, open the hood and remove the two long bolts that go straight down through the back of the headlamp housing with a nut driver and pull the housing straight out the front. There will be enough wire to pull it out far enough to reach behind the housing and twist out the lamp sockets so you can replace the bulbs. If it's the later body style, no tools are necessary, simply pop the two L-pins out of their locks by twisting them a few degrees, and pull them straight out the top. The lamp housing will then slide straight out the front as the previous style.

I have a 2001 and it's really that easy once you figure it out. But I like the round sealed beams on my former 1976 C20 better. (halogen sealed-beams were the sweet spot) Just as bright, not hard to replace, and *much* cheaper if you get into a fender-bender.

[Norbrat]

I've had the "pleasure" of mentoring engineering students doing their "work experience" as well.

Had one that didn't know what a left hand thread was.

Another wanted to know how I knew to use 50mm x 50mm x 5mm RHS to make a workbench frame I asked him to "design"; he kept asking why I wasn't going to do a failure modes and effects analysis (FMEA) on the material! :roll:

But to be fair to automotive designers, their brief is to make a product which is easily and cheaply manufactured, along with finding places to stuff in all the gadgets, bells and whistles the marketing dept thinks the customer "needs".

Vehicles are designed to go together easily and quickly, not come apart, except for basic key maintenance items.

Dealers make their money on servicing vehicles, not selling them, so it is not in their interest to make it easier for the average owner.

So fewer and fewer owners do any work on their vehicles, so there is even less incentive to design them to be easily maintained.

I hate working on cars, but I do it because, after a number of bad experiences, I don't trust anyone else to do it right.

Recently had to replace the combination switch in SWMBO's car and the instructions went "Remove airbag, remove steering wheel, etc etc" Well, that was wrong as it all it took was to undo 3 screws to remove the trim and it was all done in 5 minutes. But a dealer could have pointed to the official instructions to justify charging me 2 hours labour to do it!

BTW, I spent the first half of '08 working in Germany for EDAG on a GM project. Decisions are made by committee and I think the German engineers got used to my Aussie "No Bulldust" attitude after a while; I often got a laugh when I was asked my opinion and answered "They're dreaming!!"

[frkelly74]

My take on this is summed up by the old riddle .. " How can you tell the difference between an engineer and a tech ? You can usually understand what the tech says."

[Blacksmith]

I spent most of my career as a Manufacturing Engineer. That is the guy who stands between the Engineering Department and the Manufacturing Group and keeps them from killing each other. Actually most of the time the job is to act as translater because they don't speak the same language.

On the one side I wish I had a dollar for every time I explained to an engineer you can't mill a pocket with a square inside corner, easy to draw difficult to machine. On the other hand manufacturing has to realize that the engineers put all those parts in there for a reason and if you leave any out, becase it is easier or we don't have any, then bad things can happen.

Lots of stories;
The engineer when shown a 1/8" diameter rod he had specified for a 9' high frame said "I didn't realize it was that small."
The young engineering student who wanted to know what a Manufacturing Engineer was. I said you know real engineers design things and make blueprints. Of course he said yes. Then I told him all Manufacturing Engineers carry a red pencil to mark up the blue prints so they will work.

Blacksmith, CMfgE

[AggieEE]

Morning;
As to the Mule story I originally heard it as an Aggie Joke, but I have seen engineers like that.

+1 on the apprintship ( I'm an engineer i can't spell ) I think a lot of companies have that type of system they just don't call it that. As a new engineer you'll end up working with a experinced engineer on a project for a while till you learn how the company wants things done.

I think auto engineers are stuck as the body stylers say this is what we want and they have to make everything fit. It still doesn't stop me for cursing them every time I bang a knuckle trying to get someting out tho. Have a good day guys.
AggieEE

[Harter66]

As an aircraft mechanic ,I can tell you exactly how it came to be and about when .

The engineers became more complex in design w/reduced servicabliy about 1945-46 . I'll referance a stock AT6 built in 44' back in the tail section for the tail wheel there is a bolt w/a cotter key ,you sit on your knees and have both arms up in the gear well, its a blind job . Except on the stock models there's an extra 1/8" rivet hole, it does nothing ,except align at eye level so you can see the nut, bolt and key. In the 33 and 35 series Beechcraft there's set of rollers for the control yoke w/only 2 ways to reach them down from the top easily done w/a 2nd elbow or the windscreen out , the other is up from the bottom . This method allows you to reach all 4 rollers if you move the yoke in to get your hands past assorted cables chains and wiring harnesses then allow it back out to unload the rollers for service or r&r. Don't even talk about lube point access on the landing gear... The 1st 35 was built in 46',the 33s are the same design w/a straight tail rather than the Vtail of the 35.

What happened was ,there was this mechanic that was good w/his hands and an engineer who over planned everything . The engineer found his wife in bed w/the mechanic ,there's been the devil to pay every since.

[MT Gianni]

The trouble with "Office Engineers" training new ones is many have never spent the time in the field to learn it right themselves.

[starbits]

A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts: "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised my friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."
The man below says: "Yes. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees N. latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees W. longitude."
"You must be an engineer," says the balloonist.
"I am," replies the man. "How did you know?"
"Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost.
"The man below says, "You must be a manager."
"I am," replies the balloonist, "but how did you know?"
"Well," says the man, "you don't know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault."

[gnoahhh]

If you think that's bad, try dealing with college professors who never got their hands dirty in their lives. I build/maintain the scientific apparatus' used in the science labs here at the college. Those guys, as nice and well meaning as they truly are, have no idea how to go about translating their ideas into physical objects- that work. After being exasperated enough times I finally said "just show me a picture, and tell me what its supposed to do, and I'll build it". Things have been fine ever since. They leave me alone, and think I work magic!

Back when I nutsed around with British sportscars, we had a saying that an English automotive engineer goes the whole way around his hand to find his thumb!

[ErikO]

There are two kinds of engineers in this world. I'm the kind they don't let drive the train. ;)

[garym1a2]

As an engineer in Automotive parts, do you think its in the best interest of the car manufacture to devlope a car that lasts forever and is easiy to maintain. No they want a car that the customer wants to replace every few years.

[shdwlkr]

Well many years ago when I used to build bridges for a living on one job the plans for all my bridges lacked correct amounts of reinforcing steel so I went an asked my boss a licensed engineer what I should do. His answer was and how many bridges have you built and at that time is was only around 100. He then told me to make the correct changes to the plans for the bridges and bring them into him for a final look,he had over 30 years working on bridges. He saw my changes and then told me to go build my bridges. He then stamped them with his license stamp sent them into main office and put a note on them that he didn't really like having his technician take time out of building bridges to design them even though he could and even knew where and what reinforcing steel was and how to place it in a bridge.
Never did get my degree but I did build or work on 450 bridges so I must have picked up something along the way of working on them.

[felix]

Engineers (designers) are worthless without technicians (doers) and scientists (dreamers). ... felix

[bowfin]

I've known several retired automotive engineers, I always joke with them that they're supposed to go in to a witness protection program when they retire

On some makes and models of automobiles, I always wanted to kidnap the responsible engineers and force them to work on their own designs at gunpoint.

However, I also remember when a car or truck lasting for 100,000 miles was a milestone accomplishment.

[Chihuahua Floyd]

#1. I is a Civil Engineer
#2. I do design, construction and plan review.
#3. Constructability is an important part of any design.
Having spent 4 years as a tractor mechanic, grew up on a farm, learned the old way drafting by hand, which I still prefer, I ain't no whiz kid idiot.
But it ain't just engineers coming out of school stupid. We got a whole generation of know nothings comming out. People are counting to much on technology. I have done stuff in the field with a calculator, pencil and paper that amazed the techs that work under me.
CF

[Goatwhiskers]

The difference between an engineer and a pig: you can argue with a pig. Goatwhiskers

[perotter]

As an engineer in Automotive parts, do you think its in the best interest of the car manufacture to devlope a car that lasts forever and is easiy to maintain. No they want a car that the customer wants to replace every few years.

The customers don't want them & wouldn't pay the $100,000-$125,000 for one that would last 40 years without major repairs. Consumers prefer to consume.

Without knowing the criteria that an engineer was given, one really can't criticize a design engineer.

FWIW, I'm not mechanical or civil engineer. I'm just objective.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Most mechanical engineers that I have met are very, very intelligent individuals. The problems tend to arise when they have to put their intelligence to real world work.

"He can give you the square root of a pickle...Just can't figure out how to get it out of the jar"

Regards,
Everett

[SciFiJim]

I have done stuff in the field with a calculator, pencil and paper that amazed the techs that work under me.
CF

Reminds me of a story my dad told. He was an oilfield instrument tech. One of the reading on temp they took had to be reported as the cube root of the number as found on a provided table. One day the table could not be found. He computed the answer with pen and paper, but the office people would not accept the answer because it was not from the table.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Thanks for the laughs.
:Fire::Fire:

[Echo]

Things are rarely, if ever, designed with service and repair in mind, only how cheaply it can be made, EPA compliance, NHTSA compliance, DOT compliance, CAFE rating, streamlined assembly, will it make it out of warranty without bankrupting the manufacturer, and occasionally customer convenience/options/gee-whiz gizmos to help it sell.

Gear

Not so. #2 Son (an Aerospace & Mech Eng) worked for a cad-cam company, showing other engineers how to use the system/equipment. The system had a 95th percentile gloved hand built in, so that in designing, one could ensure, and show how, the equipment was accessible for maintenance.

[Artful]

The customers don't want them & wouldn't pay the $100,000-$125,000 for one that would last 40 years without major repairs. Consumers prefer to consume.

Without knowing the criteria that an engineer was given, one really can't criticize a design engineer.

FWIW, I'm not mechanical or civil engineer. I'm just objective.

I wouldn't bet Money on your objective observations... look up TLC Icon

http://www.offroaders.com/directory/custom/images/TLC-Icon-1_small_small.jpg
http://www.offroaders.com/directory/custom/TLC-Icon.htm

They make a product improved 1958 to 1983 Toyota Landcruiser Clone with Stainless Steel Body, Chevy V8 and off road suspension improvements such as ARB lockers built in as the hobbyist had upgraded their old ones for years. The Icon is built by hand in California by dedicated craftsmen in very low volume with a high price tag and they have a waiting list.

Now if I can get an American Company to actually produce the 100 MPG Diesel KLR650 M1030M1D clone for civilian sales or even an upgrade/conversion kit to put on my bike.

http://olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_m1030_m1d.php

Shame Obama gave bribe/bail out to Hayes/HDT http://www.hayes-dt.com/ so they could take their Diesel Motorcycle technology that the R & D costs were paid by the tax payer and export it to India :evil:
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/2011-altius-scimitar-review-90964.html

[perotter]

I wouldn't bet Money on your objective observations... look up TLC Icon


They make a product improved 1958 to 1983 Toyota Landcruiser Clone with Stainless Steel Body, Chevy V8 and off road suspension improvements such as ARB lockers built in as the hobbyist had upgraded their old ones for years. The Icon is built by hand in California by dedicated craftsmen in very low volume with a high price tag and they have a waiting list.




If mass production was in their design criteria, they have failed. If it wasn't in their design criteria, they may have succeeded.

Like I said, without knowing what the design criteria was one can't say if an engineer did a good job.

[The Double D]

I am reminded of the stories of John Browning being followed around by engineers as Browning took two days to build a gun and shoot it.....four months later after the engineers drew it up and evaluated it they were able to reproduce it and agree that it would shoot..

The whiz folks can't wrap their heads around making a small BSA Martini cadet style action. Those folks are always looking for the original plans...they can not believe they don't exist...they can not grasp the concept that a gunsmith built a bunch of jigs and fixtures out of their heads with out engineers guidance...

[Artful]

If mass production was in their design criteria, they have failed. If it wasn't in their design criteria, they may have succeeded.

Like I said, without knowing what the design criteria was one can't say if an engineer did a good job.

My point was about your statement



The customers don't want them & wouldn't pay the $100,000-$125,000 for one that would last 40 years without major repairs. Consumers prefer to consume.

Some will pay 100K+ to get a well made, product improved vehicle, there is a small market for it. ;-)

[cajun shooter]

First allow me to say that every bridge that falls was designed by a Civil Engineer.
My wife and I had a design drafting business where we drew blue prints for new homes. There are no blueprints any longer as they have been replaced by a BOND process which may be subjected to sunlight and rain with no ill effects.
My wife was a art major and she started her home design business almost thirty years ago. Doing all the work the old way with pencil and drafting board.( No CAD DRAWINGS)
After I left the Police work she started teaching me how to draw such things as the electrical, foundation, and HVAC plans that are parts of the finished set. I have a background of the Construction business from working with my family of Bricklayers, and concrete finishers. I also studied and worked as a electrical worker and HVAC helper in between years. This gave me enough to have a good understanding of the building trades.
I hated it when we would have a "ENGINEER" come in for a set of home plans. They are given what is called a check set which includes the floor plan and front elevation.
They would always have red pencil marks that made changes that were fine on paper but would not work in the field because of local regulations or construction practice.
We had one that insisted on giving us his electrical plan to be drawn as presented and put in the plans as is.
He had seven outlets in a foyer with one electrical box on the end of a partition wall.
I called and told him that a electrical box was 3 1/2inches which is the same as the stud and therefore he would be cutting the stud in two pieces to install the box.
He advised that I was to draw the plan as presented.
I put a huge disclaimer on the electrical plan that SAID THE PLAN WAS DRAWN BY THE HOME OWNER AND NOT OUR BUSINESS. UNREAL!!

[Jim]

In '97, the Citadel Military College in Charleston, SC, demolished and rebuilt all the barracks. I was working for a mechanical contractor and I and my crew were assigned to building the new boiler rooms. When I got to the vent lines from the steam system pressure relief valves, the details showed the vent lines to terminate above floor drains inside the boiler room. I knew that not only violated code, but was dangerous.

I called my office and told them about it. They submitted a RFI and the engineers responded, saying "Build it 'as shown'". Fine with me, I won't be in there.

Six months after we turned the project over to the owner, the super called me on the radio one afternoon. "Meet me at the Citadel in the morning. We got a change order to do."

The engineers wanted all the steam PRV vent lines rerouted to outside LIKE THE CODE REQUIRES. The super told me the cost of the change order was ten times what it would have cost to do it right before we ever built it.

Hey, you can pay me now or pay me later, right? That's what they get for refusing to listen to us. But then, I'm just a dumb ol' pipefitter, what do I know?

[felix]

Yeah, as with the Cajun Shooter I can see the dilemma. As the engineer in MY house, I had to tell the electrical repair man what to do which was against some city, county, state code. He refused, so I signed papers to that effect. Ground and neutral wires get confused in older homes, and most of these older repair men go by color codes. If I built a new house by myself, I prolly would make all wires the same gage, the same color. That would force the issue later on for checking and rechecking on what is what. Nothing worse than ********s making assumptions because of past codes most especially. ... felix

[BeeMan]

Bash the <fill in the blank> threads are usually revealing...:o

Does any one else see the irony of this thread, given it exist via computers, software, and the communication network known as the web? Of course this was all conceived, specified, designed, etc. without any interference from those incompetent engineers.

:rolleyes:

That said, I prefer to work with an engineer who worked with his hands before his formal training over an academic genius. Not always but more often than not.

BeeMan

[gew98]

In '97, the Citadel Military College in Charleston, SC, demolished and rebuilt all the barracks. I was working for a mechanical contractor and I and my crew were assigned to building the new boiler rooms. When I got to the vent lines from the steam system pressure relief valves, the details showed the vent lines to terminate above floor drains inside the boiler room. I knew that not only violated code, but was dangerous.

I called my office and told them about it. They submitted a RFI and the engineers responded, saying "Build it 'as shown'". Fine with me, I won't be in there.

Six months after we turned the project over to the owner, the super called me on the radio one afternoon. "Meet me at the Citadel in the morning. We got a change order to do."

The engineers wanted all the steam PRV vent lines rerouted to outside LIKE THE CODE REQUIRES. The super told me the cost of the change order was ten times what it would have cost to do it right before we ever built it.

Hey, you can pay me now or pay me later, right? That's what they get for refusing to listen to us. But then, I'm just a dumb ol' pipefitter, what do I know?

jim ; I could relay a wad of such tax payer funded horror stories like this just at Fort Knox in the past couple years... and that's just one federal entity !!!.
One must really meet these US Army Corps of engineer pogues to realize the peter principal is quite alive and well and has a large following in government circles.

[plumberroy]

The trouble with "Office Engineers" training new ones is many have never spent the time in the field to learn it right themselves.

Bingo You should have to work in the field in your specialty under a jouneyman for at 2 years before being allowed to engineer anything!!!!

Do you know the difference between an engineer's boots and a plumber's boots??
Plumber's boots the fecal material is on the outside :mrgreen:
Roy

[Tom-ADC]

We used to have a cartoon in the shop that showed a engineer smacking his forehead, saying "Oh **** they built it like I designed it"
Yep I'm a retired staff engineer from Goodrich Aerostructures.

[Johnk454]

Bash the <fill in the blank> threads are usually revealing...:o

Does any one else see the irony of this thread, given it exist via computers, software, and the communication network known as the web? Of course this was all conceived, specified, designed, etc. without any interference from those incompetent engineers.

:rolleyes:

That said, I prefer to work with an engineer who worked with his hands before his formal training over an academic genius. Not always but more often than not.

BeeMan


Yep, it is amusing. Apparently, engineers are like lawyers - everyone loves to hate them... until they need one to save their donkey.

[perotter]

My point was about your statement



Some will pay 100K+ to get a well made, product improved vehicle, there is a small market for it. ;-)

Only a few people buying a product puts that product outside of the definition of consumer product.

[perotter]

Bash the <fill in the blank> threads are usually revealing...:o

Does any one else see the irony of this thread, given it exist via computers, software, and the communication network known as the web? Of course this was all conceived, specified, designed, etc. without any interference from those incompetent engineers.



BeeMan

Yup. Instead of spending time reloading ammo a couple of nights a week in a well lite room, we'd darning old socks. Unless we went to bed early because of being plum tuckered out from shoveling coal or beating a piece of metal with a hammer for 12 hours that day.

[45 2.1]

Yep, it is amusing. Apparently, engineers are like lawyers - everyone loves to hate them... until they need one to save their donkey.

Now ain't that just the truth. I really loved working with all those smart folks who said I can do that..... until they had to do it......... and fell on their face OR flat made a mess of it. Then the boss called me and said so and so can't finish the job, so could you go fix it, which I did. Or those folks who said "I'm smarter than you"......... then the next day or week came to you and asked how to do something. They got told....your said your smarter than I am, you figure it out. There is a limit to what 95% of most folks can do, after that they need to learn under someone that does know.......and there not that many people out there like that. Yep, i'm a civil engineer who learned all the old hard ways before the calculator or computer came along. The new engineers are lost when they can't use them.

[10x]

You guys vote them into pillbox office all the time.q

[Artful]

Well I have to relate this one, I'm in training now how to repair/service Garage Doors. My new career after Verizon closed my call center.

We get a call from the home insurance company to visit a house and when we get there the housing is hanging by the wires that go to to the lights, the plastic that holds the circuit board is broken and the board is fried by having touched the metal housing of the motor mount. Ladder and tools under it. - Obviously someone was trying to "fix" it before they called insurance to dispatch us out.

The guy who owns the house is an engineer won't admit anything except he saw sparks - gee how did that happen? Insurance ok's fixing it even thou by opening the housing the warranty was technically voided so we order a new circuit board and holder and put it all back together - unit still not working find what was evidently the original problem the 20 year old plastic coupler was broken between gear drive and door screw - replaceable without opening the housing by the way.

Seemed appropriate to this thread. Oh, and we made the engineer promise to call us instead of DIY