Friend mugged

[Matthew 25]

I just had a little reality check that I wanted to share with you guys.

A friend/client of mine (and his wife) recently drove from Colorado to Texas hauling a horse to be trained. He stopped somewhere in New Mexico to get fuel (diesel) and was pulled up between a couple tractor-trailers. His wife went into the truck-stop and he stayed to fuel the pickup. Out came 7 men. Four grabbed him and roughed him up and they stole close to $1000 cash. He believes they were on meth by the way they looked and acted. Granted, he's no expert on meth-heads, he lives in a quiet mountain town with a limited number of those people.

Now my friend isn't the person I think about when I read Jeff Cooper's books...he isn't exactly a warrior or always on the look-out and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even own a handgun, but he is a good guy. Thankfully no one was hurt, but the creeps got away clean. We all know crappy things can happen to good people.

Before this, sometimes I would wonder if I'm getting a little weird by always having a pistol on me or pretty close. I just drove the family to Alabama and wore a concealed snubby the whole way and I wondered if I was being a little too paranoid, or if packing was unnecessary.

I guess now I feel a little more justified. I wanted to relay this story to encourage everyone to stay alert and pack if you can.

Matthew 25

[aarolar]

This is one of those situations where I don't even think a firearm would have helped, it actually might have made it worse. I can't imagine being approached by 7 grown men intent on doing me harm. :shock: And most of the time I only carry a J-frame 5 boolits 7 men the math doesn't work out too well...

[Love Life]

Always vigilant.

[Nazgul]

I would say if you shot 2-3 of them they would quit.

Don

[beagle]

Amen to that. Even if he started shooting and didn't hit anything, I think they'd leave. I know if I was in their shoes I would./beagle


I would say if you shot 2-3 of them they would quit.
Don

[aarolar]

Amen to that. Even if he started shooting and didn't hit anything, I think they'd leave. I know if I was in their shoes I would./beagle

Meth was mentioned if they were high on meth I highly doubt any amount of shooting would stop them unless you killed them.

[Love Life]

Meth was mentioned if they were high on meth I highly doubt any amount of shooting would stop them unless you killed them.

Your thinking LSD.

Pelvis, Femur, Solar plexus, Lungs, Heart, multiple shots. That will make them knock it off.

[Catshooter]

Meth was mentioned if they were high on meth I highly doubt any amount of shooting would stop them unless you killed them.

Should we just give and lay down aarolar? Or are you suggesting some other solution? Killing them sounds fine to me. Probably only have to kill the first, even a meth head may have some survival instinct. Or maybe not. I'd certainly rather not be placed in the postion to find out, but if they come I'm shooting till there's no more threat or I'm out of ammo.

Mathew25,

Sorry to hear of your friend's event. Glad it wasn't worse. Hope he wakes up and starts to carry and never needs to use it.


Cat

[Reg]

No, meth is every bit as bad and perhaps even worse. Dropping one or two in their tracks might have made a difference. Only trouble is ---- once you pull that hidden gun, your life will never be the same.

[aarolar]

Should we just give and lay down aarolar? Or are you suggesting some other solution? Killing them sounds fine to me. Probably only have to kill the first, even a meth head may have some survival instinct. Or maybe not. I'd certainly rather not be placed in the postion to find out, but if they come I'm shooting till there's no more threat or I'm out of ammo.

Mathew25,

Sorry to hear of your friend's event. Glad it wasn't worse. Hope he wakes up and starts to carry and never needs to use it.


Cat

Im honestly not sure what I would have done althought I can say I am way more aware than what you say your friend is so they might not have gotten the jump on me but if you have 7 guys within arms reach of you and you start digging in your pocket for a firearm chances are you might end up being the one shot. Don't get me wrong I am not one to lay down but really what are your chances.

[MT Chambers]

You folks are very lucky that you live where you live, we have the same scumbags that you do, but we are not allowed to protect ourselves. In Canada, if you are invaded or house broken into and they steal your guns, you are charged with unsafe storage of firearms. If you were to shoot someone because your life was in danger, you would go to jail prolly for longer then the perpetrators.....so enjoy it while you can!

[jh45gun]

No, meth is every bit as bad and perhaps even worse. Dropping one or two in their tracks might have made a difference. Only trouble is ---- once you pull that hidden gun, your life will never be the same.

Having 7 drugged out *****s beat you to death your life is not going to be the same either.

[Love Life]

I bet the John Ross 500 S&W magnum would stop that assault in hurry!!

[Whitworth]

I would say if you shot 2-3 of them they would quit.

Don


That's my thought too.

[bigjason6]

Your thinking LSD.

Pelvis, Femur, Solar plexus, Lungs, Heart, multiple shots. That will make them knock it off.

You might be thinking of pcp. That stuff turns people into unstoppable monsters.

[Love Life]

You might be thinking of pcp. That stuff turns people into unstoppable monsters.

Your right Bigjason. PCP is what i was thinking.

Once again break down the basic parts required for the body to move and function, and you will be fine.

[Bullet Caster]

Ugh. I'd hate for that to happen to me. That's why I always have my 9mm and an extra mag + 5 extra bullets in my CCW vest. I've only had to shoot one person and I don't have any qualms about doing it again. In my case the scumbag deserved everything he got. It did change my life--I'm always on the alert and watch people very closely whenever they approach me usually with my hand on the pistol. You start shooting and watch how quickly they (the bad guys) disperse. BC

[Love Life]

Ugh. I'd hate for that to happen to me. That's why I always have my 9mm and an extra mag + 5 extra bullets in my CCW vest. I've only had to shoot one person and I don't have any qualms about doing it again. In my case the scumbag deserved everything he got. It did change my life--I'm always on the alert and watch people very closely whenever they approach me usually with my hand on the pistol. You start shooting and watch how quickly they (the bad guys) disperse. BC

Yep. Start poking holes in people and they tend to knock of whatever they were doing.

[canyon-ghost]

and wore a concealed snubby the whole way and I wondered if I was being a little too paranoid, or if packing was unnecessary.

I guess now I feel a little more justified.

Then there's that saying, "It isn't paranoia if someone is out to get you"! Let's face it, how often do other people really look at you and NOT size you up? They aren't all looking at you with understanding, christian eyes, ya know.

[Keyston44]

I just had a little reality check that I wanted to share with you guys.

A friend/client of mine (and his wife) recently drove from Colorado to Texas hauling a horse to be trained. He stopped somewhere in New Mexico to get fuel (diesel) and was pulled up between a couple tractor-trailers. His wife went into the truck-stop and he stayed to fuel the pickup. Out came 7 men. Four grabbed him and roughed him up and they stole close to $1000 cash. He believes they were on meth by the way they looked and acted. Granted, he's no expert on meth-heads, he lives in a quiet mountain town with a limited number of those people.

Now my friend isn't the person I think about when I read Jeff Cooper's books...he isn't exactly a warrior or always on the look-out and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even own a handgun, but he is a good guy. Thankfully no one was hurt, but the creeps got away clean. We all know crappy things can happen to good people.

Before this, sometimes I would wonder if I'm getting a little weird by always having a pistol on me or pretty close. I just drove the family to Alabama and wore a concealed snubby the whole way and I wondered if I was being a little too paranoid, or if packing was unnecessary.

I guess now I feel a little more justified. I wanted to relay this story to encourage everyone to stay alert and pack if you can.

Matthew 25

I drove from Colorado to Florida and back taking the southern route knowing it would be longer just so I would be legal to carry my gun on my hip the whole way.
So no, I don't think it's paranoid. Or maybe it is and I don't know any better.

[leadman]

I have had men sizing me up fueling the matorhome a couple of times. I am always looking around so when they were giving me attention than I thought necessary I stared back and slipped my hand in my pocket. They found other things to do.

Glad your friend survived and hope this is a wake-up call for him.

To bad he wasn't able to douse them with gas, then hold the lighter up!

[Matthew 25]

Copy that, Leadman...it would be too kind.
I'm not a real big fan of bullies/abusers of power/groups attacking singles, etc.
I do agree that if you get jumped by 7 guys your odds may be slim.
I do agree that using lethal force will change your life, maybe for the worse, and in this case it worked out for my friend to not put up a valorous struggle.
But...
I don't like thinking that most of those 7 dirty SOB thugs are going to continue to commit violent crimes until they are incarcerated or killed.
What I really don't like thinking about is: what would 2 or 3 of those fellows do to a young woman if given the opportunity? That really bothers me...I have 3 young daughters, well it bothered me before I had children.
I would be happy to nip a future assault in the bud by engaging violent criminals. I think, "if they would attack and mug a man today, what will they do to a weaker person tomorrow?"

Some of you guys have brought up a good point about it being a wake-up call for my friend. I think I need to have a potentially inappropriate conversation with him.

[oscarflytyer]

was in the Army, self taught and military trained, and trained military shooters - and a lot!

I carry all the time, every day, everywhere - because you never know.... (live in Alabama)

One day, getting ready to leave the house w/ the wife to walk the dogs around a local lake, at the last moment, decided to put the Glock in my waistband.

What a premonition! Turned out to be the closest I have ever come to drawing a weapon in a self defense/stress situation. Our 2 dogs were on leashes and 2 Pit Bulls weren't... They got to the proverbial 'line in the sand'... Fortunately they didn't cross it. But I was def in fear of my, my wife's and my dogs' lives and was very prepared to defend us.

That encounter taught me a lesson - slightly hard learned... Never leave home w/o it. And since then, my wife has never even QUESTIONED or MENTIONED my carry habit, as she once did. She got it in a hurry!

[Hang Fire]

My wife is 71 years old and she sometimes carries her 3" cylinder five shot Judge, three with #4 and two with triple aught buck. I asked why she wanted to carry that heavy thing, she said there might be more than one to deal with. No permit is required for CC here in AZ, sometimes I do, sometimes don't, I guess in these days and times, should do it full time.

[milsurp mike]

I say the same thing about my carry weapon as American Express.Never leave home without it.I live in a small town where you could lay on the side walk and sleep and nobody would bother you.There are a few dark parts of town where we are not welcome.I have never been in a similar situation and pray I ever do.I made the decision to use my weapon when I started carrying should the unfortunate situation arise.I only had to pull it one time when a Me and my Wife went to give notice of eviction to a Meth head Renter to vacate of one of our rental houses.He changed his mind real quick and decided he had something else to do.The next day He and His Ole Lady were gone thank goodness.We didnt even have to go through the Eviction process.I really think I would have used it if he came one step closer to my Wife.I really think it would change your life but as someone else stated so would getting your brain beat out also.Here in Alabama we have the right to use Deadly Force while Protecting our property,Family or ourselves.Several people have been disposed of and the person defending his self or property and family has not been Arrested for doing so.Thank goodness.Mike

[MtGun44]

I'm always carrying a 1911 when not at work. Only in a few states that I go thru am I
not legal to CCW.

Keeping one's head up and paying attention is a critical skill.

First rule of a gunfight - have a gun.

Good that all he lost was money.

Bill

[R.M.]

Keyston44, I know what you mean. I just traveled back to Canada, north shore of Lake Erie,from CO. What a pain to make sure I was legal. Nebraska is unfriendly to non-residents. Iowa and of course Illinois are terrible. Indiana and Michigan are OK, but then I had to visit a friend in MI to leave my gun before I crossed the border. Same on the way back.
The sooner we get full reciprocity, the better. I feel it was still better to have put up with the nonsense than just leave my gun at home, and Leadman's story proves that trouble can show up anyplace, to anyone.

[Love Life]

All I can say is while in the states I have had to draw steel on people 2 times. One time was in Wilmington, NC. Me and the wife were leaving Nikki's sushi (great place) and decided to cut through an alley (cliche) to get back to our car. As soon as we entered the alley a guy followed us in about 20 paces behind us. That was odd. About half way through the alley 3 guys stepped out and blocked the exit.

I immediately drew my glock 26 and set the laser on the guy behind us. I told him to move in front of us or die. My wife covered the punks to the front while the guy behind us grew wide eyed and moved to the group of three. we both held them at gun point until the police came. Should be public record.

Number 2- Me and the wife were in Augusta (Disgusta) GA getting some dinner. On the short walk back to the car 6 guys surrounded us and were very quiet. I didn't wait. I drew my my model 28 and said I'll kill 3 of you before you get us and my wife will kill 3 more. they froze up. We demanded them all on the ground and called the police. Should be public record.

What I am saying is the meer threat will stop most issues, BUT you must be prepared to KILL your attacker if the time comes.

Always understand that once that bullet/boolit leaves your barrel you can never get it back.

[bigjason6]

Now that's pretty scary! I drive a truck for a living. About five years ago while I was getting fuel at a truck stop in NM and this little punk with a knife comes around to where I was and demanded my wallet. Somebody didn't realize the nozzle I was holding was still active with pressure behind it. That idiot caught about 5 gallons of diesel to the face and body. As soon as he hit the ground, I proceeded to put the boots to his face.

[saz]

I have had to pull my pistol a few times in the past, but pulled the trigger once.

First- wrong part of town (Fayetteville, NC) at a gas station, 3AM going to pick up one of my guys from a party he shouldnt have been at. Some crackhead put his hand and knife in the 6" hole where my window was partially down and told me to get out of the truck. I told him to hold on while I unbuckled my seatbelt (wasnt wearing one) and pulled the 1911 that was between the seat and center console. He dropped the knife on my floorboard and ran like hell.

Second- I was getting ready to go to work VERY early (1:30am) and I heard the unmistakeable sound of a ford truck door opening (that little "pop") in the front yard where my bronco was parked. Grabbed my 1911 and flashlight and found the neighbor's 12 year old rummaging through my truck. When he saw the business end of the 45 I watched him run all the way down the street and into the front door of his house. I knew his dad worked swing shift, so he either just fell asleep or worked late and wasnt home yet. Knocked on the door and told him what was going on and asked him if he wanted me to call the cops- Mind you this guy was about 6'6" 270lbs and raised "right". The only reply was "Ill take care of it, thanks." I dont think I saw that young man again......

Third- I just came back from a turkey shoot with my neighbor and we were in his garage cleaning up our guns and I jsut happened to have my .44mag in there. Looking out his garage I could see my backyard where my 1year old Austrailian Blue Heeler was on her runner. I heard her start yelping and when I looked I saw another neighbors "trained guard dog" off its leash with my pup pinned up against the tree. I hollered at the dog and it started coming at me, neck hair on end, teeth showing and crouched- put 2 rounds in the SBH and threw some rocks at the dog and it came even faster. It got to about 30 feet and got a 300gr XTP through the nugget.

You never know what kind of vermin you will run into- 2 legged or 4, but I am a beleiver in I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it when it comes to CCW.

[grumman581]

You folks are very lucky that you live where you live, we have the same scumbags that you do, but we are not allowed to protect ourselves. In Canada, if you are invaded or house broken into and they steal your guns, you are charged with unsafe storage of firearms. If you were to shoot someone because your life was in danger, you would go to jail prolly for longer then the perpetrators.....so enjoy it while you can!

Sounds like you Canucks need to learn the concept of, "no body, no crime"... But then again, ya'll don't have any gators up there for body disposal, do you?

Gators gotta eat too, ya' know...

[grumman581]

A kid tried to rob me once... He had a snub nosed .38, but I was a lot younger and naive, so I didn't have anything with me... I got shot in the process, but he came out a lot bloodier... The cops took him away afterward, but he was probably released to his parents before I was through getting patched up... Let's just say that I'm a lot more aware of my surroundings since then...

I've been shot, I've been shot at, and I have shot... I've also had individuals decide I was not worth the trouble when they realized that I was armed and was willing to use it...

[bigjason6]

Sounds like you Canucks need to learn the concept of, "no body, no crime"... But then again, ya'll don't have any gators up there for body disposal, do you?

Gators gotta eat too, ya' know...

Pigs are pretty effective too!

[exile]

The thing that really scares me is that the man's wife could have been harmed as well. I might think twice about defending myself unless I absolutely had to, but if my wife was involved, I would hope that my firearm would be empty at the end of the encounter, and I don't think I would really care as long as I made my best effort to defend her.

Believe me when I say that meth is no joke, it does not take a back seat to anything when it comes to destroying an individual's life and the impact on society. Meth actually alters the physical make-up of the brain. A show I saw said that virtually 100% of the crime in the Pacific Northwest can be attributed to meth use.

The actual meth capital of the U.S.A. is a small town in Missouri, believe it or not.

exile

[Bret4207]

The OP gives you kind of a lot to think about. Our society is going into the krapper. If it's getting to the point people are being mugged at gas stations then whats next? I'm not much of one for traveling. certainly not across the country. If I was then I think I'd be checking the laws on carry or even having a gun in the car in the states I wanted to travel through. Of course then there's the question of what states actually allow you defend yourself in a situation like this. I think he would have been justified, but I'm not the guy deciding things. Tough situation.

[imashooter2]

This is one of those situations where I don't even think a firearm would have helped, it actually might have made it worse. I can't imagine being approached by 7 grown men intent on doing me harm. :shock: And most of the time I only carry a J-frame 5 boolits 7 men the math doesn't work out too well...

They were punks looking for easy money and not a military organization. When the gun comes out, they are likely to change their outlook on your money. If they continue, than the others might still reconsider where they wish to be after the first one or two start leaking. And if that doesn't happen, getting beat up by 3 guys isn't really a whole lot different than getting beat up by 7 except for the sense of satisfaction at knowing 4 of them are down before you get knocked out.

If they are the sort of group that would advance to the attack through gunfire, than it is unlikely that you could get 7 of them before they got to you if you had an M14.

Any way I look at it, I can't see how having a J frame on me would make it worse...

[Shuz]

I live in a rural area outside of Spokane, Wa. There is a lot of drug related crime out here. I find it very interesting and comfortable to know that several of us guys who belong to a small community church, pack concealed every Sunday!!

[idahoron]

I was caught off guard a couple times. The first time I went camping. I forgot to take my pistol. At the camp site a guy we called Psycho Joe wanted our camp spot. He asked us to leave and I told him to F off. HE went down the road and shot his gun over our camp for about an hour. It was a scary time that was about 20 years ago.

The second time I was caught off guard was in a casino elevator. A kid about 12 years old tried his best to mug a friend of mine that was carrying a bucket full of coins. This kid tried to mug him while we were together in the elevator. I grabbed him turned him over my knee and spanked him as hard as I could. I asked his friend about 7 to 9 years old if he wanted any of it. HE said no. Afterward I turned him loose in the hall way and told him never do it again. My wife told me later that she didn't think I should have beat his A$$. I told her that I probably did him a favor. In hind sight I should have held them both and called the cops. The problem is the law would have just let them go because of their age.

Young kids are getting more violent. They don't think there is anything that can touch them. A guy I work with was beaten up by a group of kids. He was put in the hospital. Another guy I know that lives down the street shot at someone robbing his garage. It ended up being a bunch of kids and the guy was arrested and charged with some BS charge. Meanwhile the kids were bragging in school that they were going to get the guy thrown in Jail and go back to rob him again.

We are living in tough times and times are going to get tougher. I was caught off guard 20 years ago. it won't happen again I am always ready now and I refuse to be a victim .
Ron

[30calflash]

I live in a rural area outside of Spokane, Wa. There is a lot of drug related crime out here. I find it very interesting and comfortable to know that several of us guys who belong to a small community church, pack concealed every Sunday!!

Same here, but it doesn't feel right carrying in the house of the Lord. I've purposely left it home a few times when I think of it and that's the only time I don't have one with me. It is something I need to work out in my between church times.

[Love Life]

I was caught off guard a couple times. The first time I went camping. I forgot to take my pistol. At the camp site a guy we called Psycho Joe wanted our camp spot. He asked us to leave and I told him to F off. HE went down the road and shot his gun over our camp for about an hour. It was a scary time that was about 20 years ago.

The second time I was caught off guard was in a casino elevator. A kid about 12 years old tried his best to mug a friend of mine that was carrying a bucket full of coins. This kid tried to mug him while we were together in the elevator. I grabbed him turned him over my knee and spanked him as hard as I could. I asked his friend about 7 to 9 years old if he wanted any of it. HE said no. Afterward I turned him loose in the hall way and told him never do it again. My wife told me later that she didn't think I should have beat his A$$. I told her that I probably did him a favor. In hind sight I should have held them both and called the cops. The problem is the law would have just let them go because of their age.

Young kids are getting more violent. They don't think there is anything that can touch them. A guy I work with was beaten up by a group of kids. He was put in the hospital. Another guy I know that lives down the street shot at someone robbing his garage. It ended up being a bunch of kids and the guy was arrested and charged with some BS charge. Meanwhile the kids were bragging in school that they were going to get the guy thrown in Jail and go back to rob him again.

We are living in tough times and times are going to get tougher. I was caught off guard 20 years ago. it won't happen again I am always ready now and I refuse to be a victim .
Ron

That is hilarious right there.

[Shooter6br]

"Dont insult 7 men when carrying a six gun" Damn scum Our government protects the criminal more than the law abidding citizen. They (7) probably had long arrest reconds and should have be on a chain gang

[grumman581]

"Dont insult 7 men when carrying a six gun"

But the question becomes whether they are going to automatically assume that a revolver has only 6 possible shots... Probably a safe bet... They might be surprised though...

S&W Model 686P -- .357mag, 7 shot
Taurus 617 -- .357mag, 7 shot
S&W Model 627 -- .357mag, 8 shot
Taurus 608 -- .357mag, 8 shot

Mateba MTR-8 revolver (Italy)
http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/handguns/italy/revolver/1287752676.jpg

And there have even been 20 shot revolvers:
http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/images/58594.jpg

[Bret4207]

"Dont insult 7 men when carrying a six gun"

Which 6 out of the 7 are willing to get shot? A revolver makes a dandy club when it's empty BTW.

[MtGun44]

My guess is that by the time you have shot 2 or 3 the rest will have remembered an
urgent appointment elsewhere.

My 1911 has 7+1, and two more mags on the belt at all times away from home except at
work.

Bill

[L1A1Rocker]

Same here, but it doesn't feel right carrying in the house of the Lord. I've purposely left it home a few times when I think of it and that's the only time I don't have one with me. It is something I need to work out in my between church times.


A church I attended when I lived in another city highly encouraged their Deacons to carry. All members with CHL's were welcomed to carry.

[Russell James]

Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
The op comment about the 7 hoods would be eventually incarcerated makes me shake my head. It took an average of 22 convictions on a rap sheet to get a "suspect" sent to prison in the 1980's. THINK OF THE INNOCENT VICTIMS. 22X7=154.
And that is only for the convictions, not cases dropped for lack of evidence, witnesses backing out , unreported crimes, or crimes done with no leads.

I tell my students in jujitsu & karate classes.
The bad guy is the bad guy, he deserves no quarter.
In self defense...
You need to have a switch in your head, like a light switch, that you can flick on & fight. Don't stop till the opponent is down & out. Then switch it off.:Fire::Fire:

[Love Life]

HI,
The op comment about the 7 hoods would be eventually incarcerated makes me shake my head. It took an average of 22 convictions on a rap sheet to get a "suspect" sent to prison in the 1980's. THINK OF THE INNOCENT VICTIMS. 22X7=154.
And that is only for the convictions, not cases dropped for lack of evidence, witnesses backing out , unreported crimes, or crimes done with no leads.

I tell my students in jujitsu & karate classes.
The bad guy is the bad guy, he deserves no quarter.
In self defense...
You need to have a switch in your head, like a light switch, that you can flick on & fight. Don't stop till the opponent is down & out. Then switch it off.:Fire::Fire:

Agreed. I have never seen it put any better anywhere.

[thegreatdane]

"not paranoid, just prepared"

[subsonic]

7 on one odds.

With a 5 shooter, you should be able to reduce the odds to less than 7 to 1 and end up with an empty gun that cannot be used against you.

Or at leas get the satisfaction that you put up a fight.

[Lefty SRH]

I don't leave my house with out atleast one of my handguns! All the home invasion stories and persoanl assualt, car jackings, etc. I feel completely justified to carry a concealed weapon. I am thankful to live in a state is suppostive of carrying concealed.

[jwp475]

I would say if you shot 2-3 of them they would quit.

Don



That's my thought too.


If 2 ,3 are taken out then I figure my chances just got better when and if the rest continue the engagement. I wouldn't go down easy, that is for sure and for certain

[Rafe Covington]

In 1997 the wife and I lived in East Baltimore, she owned a lunch wagon. I would walk down every morning about 2 AM [kept in a rented garage] to get it for the days work. I was walking down Fayette Sreet when 5 black juveniles jumped me, hit me in the back of the head with an object. I was a carrying a 2 in barrel Smith 38 sp, when they couldn't get the gun or money out of my pocket they cut and ran. I shot at them, hit one in the arm and than I went home. The wife called the police [mistake], was taken down town questioned for about 3 hours. I was sent home, charges were never filed against me [lucky I guess]. The one they caught got probation, he was already on probation from an earlier assault. All I can say is in the anti-gun enviroment in Maryland I guess I was very lucky, but than again will never be caught unprepared again.

Rafe

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
It is often said "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."
However although a gun run dry is still a good club, a backup knife never runs out of ammo.:Fire::Fire:

[30calflash]

HI,
It is often said "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."
However although a gun run dry is still a good club, a backup knife never runs out of ammo.:Fire::Fire:

Now you're adding a new weapon system into the mix with the new issue of being good with that one also. Some folks might be good with both, but in fighting distance is your friend. The farther you can get the better. I'd prefer another gun instead of a knife.

[garym1a2]

Glock22 with a full mag and decent skills with it learned thru shooting tons of cast boolits.

[moptop]

The actual meth capital of the U.S.A. is a small town in Missouri, believe it or not.

exile


Yeah, It's not too far from where I live! Believe it, we have more than our fair share of those "rotten teeth crystal suckers" around here.

[wills]

Jacob 'Big Jake' McCandles: “And now *you* understand. Anything goes wrong, anything at all... your fault, my fault, nobody's fault... it won't matter - I'm gonna blow your head off. No matter what else happens, no matter who gets killed I'm gonna blow your head off.”

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066831/quotes

[Love Life]

Number 1 rule in a knife fight- Your going to get cut.

[Blanket]

Keyston44, I know what you mean. I just traveled back to Canada, north shore of Lake Erie,from CO. What a pain to make sure I was legal. Nebraska is unfriendly to non-residents. Iowa and of course Illinois are terrible. Indiana and Michigan are OK, but then I had to visit a friend in MI to leave my gun before I crossed the border. Same on the way back.
The sooner we get full reciprocity, the better. I feel it was still better to have put up with the nonsense than just leave my gun at home, and Leadman's story proves that trouble can show up anyplace, to anyone. What are you talking about Iowa is terrible? All you need in Iowa is to have the firearm unloaded and cased as a Canadian.

[waksupi]

What are you talking about Iowa is terrible? All you need in Iowa is to have the firearm unloaded and cased as a Canadian.

In case you didn't know, Iowa HWP targets out of state travelers. No guess, law enforcement friend there told me that. I was born and raised there, and will not drive through the state ever again.

[grumman581]

In case you didn't know, Iowa HWP targets out of state travelers. No guess, law enforcement friend there told me that. I was born and raised there, and will not drive through the state ever again.

A lot of the cops around the country target non-locals. It's simple economics... They know that the non-local is not going to have the time to waste traveling all the way back there for the multiple court dates in order to fight a speeding ticket and as such, they are just going to pay the ticket. It's all about the money... And it doesn't have to be someone from out of state. In many places, you just need to be out of the current county to find yourself a target.

Now, having said that, I never had a problem with any of the cops in Iowa when I was up there a few years back working on a DoD contract for 6 months... Maybe it's just because I didn't drive around all that much while I was up there due to the fact that after you've seen a hundred cord and bean fields, you've seen them all... :)

Or maybe it's just that I don't drive fast enough to make myself an interesting target for them...

[huntinmo]

What are you talking about Iowa is terrible? All you need in Iowa is to have the firearm unloaded and cased as a Canadian.

And, if you forget to case your red rider bb gun you will get a ticket, have seen that happen in Iowa! :groner:

[MGySgt]

I have been retired from the Marine Corps for 16 years now - have had a CCW since I retired.

3 times it has saved me from a whopping or worse.

twice I just showed the butt in my belt and the perps went away.

1 - I put the muzzel of a S&W 45 Chiefs Special in his chest and told him he could turn around and walk away or die where he stood. He deficated himself and turned around and walked away.

I leave the house - I carry, normally a S&W 3913.

[Geraldo]

The victim in the original story wasn't paying attention to begin with. First he parked where his vision was blocked by trucks in an area unknown to him. A drive around the lot before choosing a gas pump might have changed everything for him. Then choosing a pump with a better view of potential problems, even if he had to wait for one, would have been a good plan.

Then he lets seven guys get close. Even without a gun, if somebody squirrelly is coming towards him, he could have gotten into his truck, at which point he has a 4000 pound weapon.

The truth is that at 7:1 with them close in, he may have stopped a few, but he'd have probably lost his gun and then quite possibly his life. Believing that a gun will stop the worst case scenario is wishful thinking at best, and complete foolishness at worst. This is why I have advocated carrying a full size, full caliber handgun and spare ammo: because you rarely get attacked one on one in a fair fight.

Real awareness is the main thing. If you operate HUA, you're a victim in the making whether you're armed or not.

[JeffHolt]

We live near a left wing college outside a small town also but there is still an average of 2 murders a year here (in a county of about 30,000 people).
I recently upgraded my carry weapon from a Ruger SP101 to a Taurus 845 (12+1) and I carry an extra magazine, always!

I'm curiouis to know how 7 men got so close so fast. No Situational awareness?

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

My Para-Ordnance P-14 holds 15 rounds of Hydra-Shocks. Two apiece, right above the belt buckle, and a spare in case one of them twitches. I doubt I would have gotten a shot off at the third one, the rest would be gone.

Tweakers are usually pretty scrawny, and I'd bet these boys all had records. Probably all pot smokers in their younger days, who graduated to hard drugs instead of HS.

"Are you carrying a handgun?"

"Do I have my pants on?"

simple question, even simpler answer.

[Dutchman]

There's a couple rules that I think about....

When You Have To Shoot, Shoot, Don't Talk
http://youtu.be/VUslGSoEH8I

"Don't mess with old guys. They get tired quick so they'll just kill you."

[Markbo]

...3 times it has saved me from a whopping or worse....

That's kind of the kicker right there isn't it? Do bad guys usually tell you what it's going to be? About 2 years ago I was driving home and a car pulled ran a red light and pulled right in front of me. Only great brakes and some fancy driving saved a collision. I honked and the guy flipped me off.

As we moved along I got even with him and rolled down my window to tell him about it. 2 young guys. About college age and absolutely ripped. Looked like football players. The driver became livid and began chasing me and trying to force me to the side.

I laughed at him and that made him madder. We got to a red light and he jumped out coming toward my truck. I just kept saying "don't touch me... don't touch me!" He had bad intent in his eyes. He was in a full rage. Luckily for me - and him - the light changed and I just took off. I called 911 and a sherrif showed u pretty quick, whereupon their story was I was chasing them.

Sherrif didn't believe it, but just sent them on their way and gave me some "you ought to know better than get in an argument with kids" speech. True enough. It made me think afterwards. If possible, de-escalate & de-part. These are better alternatives than de-fending with extreme prejudice - IF you can. I sure could have.

BUT... it also made me realize I had no idea what that young man had in mind other than it would result in injuries to me. How bad? Who knows, but as someone I know uses as his tag line "I'm too old to take an *** whooping and too young to die!". Make your peace & your final decisions before you carry. Then when you do there is no hesitation - just clear decision making.

[MtGun44]

Your CCW is valid in Iowa. I go there often for business and pleasure and have never
had a ticket or even seen many troopers out, let alone pulling people over.
Maybe in the past the gun thing might have been an issue, but now they honor out of
state CCW, so no sweat.

Had a guy get out of his car and threaten me once, I opened the console and put my hand on the
1911 and just looked at him. He watched me, i was just calm, alert and my hand clearly in the console,
waiting for him to make his move, and after about 20 seconds of staring, got back in the car
and left. Good move for him. He cut me off in traffic and I honked at him. He flipped out and got
out at the next light screaming and swearing like a bad ***.

Bill

[R.M.]

Your CCW is valid in Iowa. I go there often for business and pleasure and have never
had a ticket or even seen many troopers out, let alone pulling people over.
Maybe in the past the gun thing might have been an issue, but now they honor out of state CCW, so no sweat.
Bill
I got that info from the 2009 "Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States" from the NRA. Have things changed?

[grumman581]

Your CCW is valid in Iowa. I go there often for business and pleasure

"Pleasure" in Iowa? You've got to be kidding!

Oh... You're from Kansas... OK, I understand it now... :)

[NSP64]

unfortunately I live in the state that you cannot legally carry.
in missouri they have concealed carry, and there was a group of kids playing the knockout game, will beat an older gentleman and broke his jaw.
unfortunately he was not carrying a concealed weapon, they found the kids, and then I hear on the news today that they are going to drop all charges against the kids.

[bigjason6]

unfortunately I live in the state that you cannot legally carry.
in missouri they have concealed carry, and there was a group of kids playing the knockout game, will beat an older gentleman and broke his jaw.
unfortunately he was not carrying a concealed weapon, they found the kids, and then I hear on the news today that they are going to drop all charges against the kids.

Were they referred to as "youths" or "teens"?

[161]

And, if you forget to case your red rider bb gun you will get a ticket, have seen that happen in Iowa! :groner:

Somebody needs to read Iowa's code on Manner of Conveyance, and the definition of a Firearm.
161

[MtGun44]

Swiss rifle matches up in east Nebraska, but you drive up through Missouri and Iowa.

I've been to Texas a bunch too. Staying in Kansas. Too many Texans are too impressed
with themselves and their very nice, but not particularly spectacular state. I like Texas and
most Texans, it is a good place to visit, with good people, but sometimes the puffery gets
a bit old.

You've heard the old saying, "You can tell a Texan, but you can't tell him much." :bigsmyl2:

As far as changes from 2009, yes, Iowa passed CCW and honor all other state CCW permits,
as of Jan. 1, 2011.

Here is a link to the Iowa Highway Patrol site and this is their FAQ page;

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/asd/SF2379_FAQ.pdf

Now there is only one state that officially has no possible way to get a permit to carry a gun
for self defense, Illinois. Of course there area about 8 or 9 states with significantly limited CCW.
I have read that while Hawaii has CCW on the books, the policy is to not issue permits and
that is the problem with "may issue" laws - the local cops can decide that a few friends or
maybe nobody gets a permit, "because I said so". That's not right.

Bill

[Markbo]

Bill it sounds as if you have spent most of your Texas time around the Dallas area. Just guessing. Another Texansim I heard once: "The only thing humble about Texas is Humble, Texas!"

[TJD]

A church I attended when I lived in another city highly encouraged their Deacons to carry. All members with CHL's were welcomed to carry.

I have pastured churches for 30+ years and I have always encouraged my people to be prepared to protect themselves. My wife’s parents who lived in a different state were beaten and robbed. It sure changed their lives forever. They however never made any more remarks when our church hosted a self defense class for our elderly members or whom ever wanted to attend.
I knew a pastor who was robbed and killed in his study leaving a wife and young children. I have been called to many family disputes but two of them that turn ugly. I was on a fishing trip that was interrupted by a guy who wanted to do me bodily harm. Once a trip to an Indian reservation to visit a pastor friend got out of hand when some young men stopped my car. They weren’t Sitting Bull and I wasn’t Custer. It is amazing how much stiffer your back bone is with a 1911 tucked inside your belt. Thankfully I have never had to pull a trigger. Just its presence made a difference. That by the way is the pet name for my gun “The Difference”.

[grumman581]

I have pastured churches for 30+ years and I have always encouraged my people to be prepared to protect themselves

"Pastured"?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pastured

And what did these churches do that deserved them being set out to pasture?

:)

OK... Jokes aside... I know you meant "pastored"...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pastored

I'm actually surprised that more criminals don't attempt to rob churches each Sunday considering how much they like to pass the collection plate around. At least the Baptists sure did when I was a young kid. Which brings up an interesting question, I guess... How much money does the typical church collect in cash from passing the collection plate on Sundays? I would hazard to guess that it is less these days due to the fact that a lot of people use online bill pay for things that they used to do in cash or by check. Personally, I probably write fewer than a dozen checks per year and it is only to entities that either don't have systems in place for automated payments or those that I don't trust (e.g. real estate taxes, school lunch account for my daughter, the IRS).

[TJD]

Grumman 581 thank you for correcting my spelling. May be that is why some of the people said, "I was out standing in my field".

For some thugs whether there is cash or not is not the question. It is a matter of, do they "think" the cash is there. Also the event in Colorado Springs points out other problems faced by church ministries. Plus now days there are elements who hate Christians on general principals. All toll good people have become targets. In our town of only 14 thousand the cop still took 23 minutes to answer most calls. I believe we are to protect ourselves so we can report to the police when they do show up to take the report.

[starmac]

Inlaws live in colorado springs, they are two of the assigned carry in their congregation, I don't know how many more are.

[grumman581]

Grumman 581 thank you for correcting my spelling. May be that is why some of the people said, "I was out standing in my field".


Awh, just a bit of friendly razzing... Sometimes when people say one thing but spell it another way, it has a funny meaning...

On an aviation forum recently, there was a discussion about devices that the aircraft owners used to move their aircraft back into their hangars... One guy said that he used to have a problem, but then after he got himself a wench to do it, he didn't have a problem anymore...

Of course, then came all the comments about how did his wife feel about him getting a wench, others about the upkeep on the wench being prohibitive, etc... It went on for awhile...

We all knew that he meant winch, not wench, but sometimes intentional misunderstanding can be humorous... Unfortunately, I couldn't think of anything for your flub except wondering why you were putting so many congregations out to pasture...



For some thugs whether there is cash or not is not the question. It is a matter of, do they "think" the cash is there. Also the event in Colorado Springs points out other problems faced by church ministries. Plus now days there are elements who hate Christians on general principals. All toll good people have become targets. In our town of only 14 thousand the cop still took 23 minutes to answer most calls. I believe we are to protect ourselves so we can report to the police when they do show up to take the report.

The police are just there to fill out the paperwork... Well, that plus to supplement the income of the city with various tickets and such... Of course when the cop chooses a different way of taking the money from the citizens (and does not share it with the city), they don't exactly take kindly to that...

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8508690

Wow... Steals money from motorists and only gets 2 years of probation... Want to lay odds that if a non-LEO had done it, they would have faced a more serious sentence?

[45nut]

I found out long ago,, if you think your in a fair fight,, your going to lose. There is only win or lose, Draws are rare in professional ring fights, there are none outside the rings.
7-1 was a potential murder scene.
I have had a knife to my throat. long ago, and had a methhead back his truck up my driveway and attempt to open the door, I met him with the muzzle of the SIG 220 and backed him off the steps.
He insisted he was at the house of a friend, I insisted I was not his friend and the time to leave was long gone. He kept insisting, I kept the pressure on the trigger. He had a open beer in one hand and had stuck his other hand in his pocket and I kept the pressure on the trigger. I gave him a final ultimatum and he finally relented and got in his truck and left. I got on the phone,, called the sheriff,, midnight,, new years eve.. yeah,, took them a good hour to make it out the 20 miles while I kept on the phone reporting to the dispatcher that the guy was driving up and down the road.......
Finally he drove off and left my street. They did pick him up,, driving revoked, DUI,,, knife in the pocket and stolen truck. No question in my mind what his intent was, the County DA declined to prosecute,, but sent him off on parole violations from a different county.
I do believe the trigger on the SIG was on the last 1/8th ounce before he met his idol.
I am too old and too broken to think I would get mercy from a dirtbag,, so the fair fight is out,, it's game on from the start. Nothing is fair after a fight except the pale skin of the dead under a fluorescent light .

[grumman581]

and had a methhead back his truck up my driveway and attempt to open the door, I met him with the muzzle of the SIG 220 and backed him off the steps.
He insisted he was at the house of a friend, I insisted I was not his friend and the time to leave was long gone.

Sometimes, mistakes happen... Doesn't sound like that was the case there though...

A few years back, I was working out of state on a contract for a major defense contractor. I was going to be there for 6 months, so I just got a cheap apartment instead of staying in a hotel. One night after working lake, I headed back to the apartment, put my key in the door, and it wouldn't open. I had just moved into the apartment, so I figured there was something wrong with my key, so I just kept jiggling it while trying to turn the door knob. Then I noticed someone move the blinds to look out the window...

OOOPS !!!

I stepped back, looked at the row of apartments and thought about it a bit... Something didn't look right, but I couldn't quite place it... The apartment number was correct... I got in my car and was going to head over the the complex management office when I realized that there were two rows of buildings exactly alike and I was on the wrong row... Turned on the right row and went to the same apartment on that row and surprisingly, my key DID work...

I called the building management and asked them to relay my apologies to the occupant of that apartment...

I'm lucky I didn't get shot...

[fowl_language]

I am planning a trip with my girlfriend from Idaho back to Wisconsin soon. I will be taking a slightly different route to site see and open carry as well as conceal carry. There isn't much talking that needs to be done when a man in cowboy boots steps out of his rig with a holstered 1911.

Friend of mine lives 30 miles outside of the nearest town with 3 neighbors within 10 miles... Man enters his driveway at 11 pm one night hammered drunk, bangs on the door insistently for about 20 minutes, my friend and his brother call the police and tell the man not to continue 5 minutes pass and the man is non-complacent and insists that he lives in their house. The man then proceeds to try and kick the door down. My friend and his brother proceed to take the AR's around their neck and commonly open the door, the man pushes in the screen door mad as hell looking for a fight, they calmly flash him in the face with their lights on and tell the man to lay on the ground (i doubt that calmly). Police arrive awhile later and apprehend the man. I am thankful this did not end a different way. Things like this happen in rural America, for clarification they did not know the man in any respect.

People that will say you are inviting trouble by open carrying...it's not labeled "brandishing" when it is visible. You invite trouble when you pull... I carry and I hope until my eyes are red that I will never have to pull, but I would like everyone to see that I am intent on protecting my "zone of imminent danger for myself and those around me."

As far as "would a firearm present more of a problem" possibly, but also not. What happens if he was carrying and didn't pull would he have been shot with his own weapon? I'm not sure either, but would declaring a firearm have stopped the assault right away? I don't know either. Too many variables to analyze unless being there.

I am truly sorry for what your friend experienced, I am thankful that his wife was not involved. That would have tore me apart. It's unfortunate that this happens in smaller as well as larger communities. Growing up in a rather bad neighborhood as a young child I saw things that I wish I didn't. Our current societal situation is really unfortunate no matter where you are, some places more than others. This is why Mr. Browning follows me wherever I go.

FL