Help me outfit a Lock N Load AP for pistol

[blikseme300]

Ladies & Gents,

After much thought I have decided to upgrade my progressive press collection and get a Lock N Load AP press together with an automatic case feeder.

I have been using Lee Pro 1000's for a number of years and am familiar with progressive presses.

What I am uncertain about is what combination of dies to get & use. I would prefer to seat and crimp on separate stations.

Also, which expander dies work best. With my Lee's I had to make custom expanders to suit the boolit sizes to work for me. I prefer powder through expanders.

My main calibers are 9mmP, 38Spl/357Mag & 45ACP.

Any hints or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

Bliksem

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

blikseme,

If you still have your Lee dies and Pro Auto Disk, you can use that just as well as the Hornady powder measure for pistol. I owned a Hornady LnL for over a decade and I've used both the Hornady measure and the Lee powder measures on my press with great success.

So if you have the Lee dies already paid for, use them with their powder through expander and the Lee Pro Auto Disk. All you have to do is remove the rubber o-ring on the locking rings, flip them upside down and the Lee dies will fit in the LnL bushings.

If you no longer have those dies, then I would not hesitate to Look at Dillon dies for pistol and use the Universal PTX that's available or the latest expanders from Hornady. If you do use the Hornady powder measure, be sure to use that new device they have out to help with expansion. Should come with your new press.

Hope this helps,

Dave

[blikseme300]

Dave,

I still have all my Lee equipment but I don't want to take them down to outfit the LnL. I have no problem with getting and using more Lee dies and the Pro Auto Disks as I know these products well and they work well for me.

From my reading the forums etc I note that a common complaint is that the Hornady instructions and manuals are often lacking what other equipment pieces to get to outfit their loaders. I have not yet received my LnL so cannot comment on this.

I am now at the stage where I have time to explore and research before I buy and that's why I posted here.

Thanks

Bliksem

[OuchHot!]

For the most part, both my ammomaster and LnL are equipped with Lee dies. For pistol, I prefer their auto disc measures and have had ok results with stock lee powder thru expanders. Powderfunnels.com sells a tapered powder-thru insert to replace the 5 that the LnL measure uses. I haven't tried that so cannot say how well it works. I like redding profile crimp for magnum handgun so some setups use that rather than the lee crimp. I always crimp separate from seating except (of course) on my pro1000. I usually start with a Lee die set and then, only if really needed, try another expander or crimper. Other than lee and dillon, I find that other die sets have rather abrupt lead-in at the die mouth and wobbulation of a case in a die plate can cause hang ups. Just my experience, ymmv

[buyobuyo]

The LNL has 5 stations so there is no need to flare and powder in the same step, unless you want to run some kind of powder check die, which I don't find necessary for pistol. Just look in the case, it will be right in front of you. I really like Lyman's M-dies for expanding/flairing with cast bullets.

As for outfitting the new press, you will need shell plates for both the LNL and the case feeder. For 9mm the case feeder uses the small pistol plate and 38/357 and 45 use the large pistol plate. You will get all the parts for both sizes of priming systems, large/small powder drums for the measure, and both large/small case parts for the case feeder. The press will come with 5 bushings, but I find it easiest to have a bushing for each die. It's cheapest to pickup the bushings in packs of 10. Multiple quick change powder dies and metering assemblies are nice to have, but it is fairly quick to adjust when swapping calibers. Also, spare case retainer springs are a good spare part to keep on hand.

So in summary:

Shell plates for each caliber
Case feeder plates in appropriate sizes
Extra bushings
Extra quick change powder dies (not necessary)
Extra metering assemblies (not necessary)
Spare case retainer springs (good to have just in case)

Finally, the bushing the powder measure is in has a tendency to rotate as you're loading and unlock itself. If you give Hornady a call and ask they will send you a couple of shims that will tighten up the fit and keep it from unlocking.

[Model29-2]

I will list what is working for me and maybe that will give you food for thought.

First off I am using Lee dies. I put the lock ring upside down as was mentioned above. I have done a lot of testing (fooling around) with the Lee powder measure and don't trust it for light charges like 3.2 grains of anything. I have not had any problem whatsoever with the Hornday powder system.


First station: decap/size
Second station: LNL Powder measure with the case actuated linkage on it. I also got the PTX expanders for the powder thru and expanding in one step. (I shoot almost totally cast or this might not be necessary.) Jury is still out on these regarding ease of changing, but I am working on a system to make installs repeatable. If you don't change calibers much change out ease is a non-issue.
Third station: I have an RCBS powder cop die. Small charges are easier to monitor as long as you remember to watch it!!:!:
Fourth station: seat die
Fifth station: Lee factory crimp die.


I have also used the following setup, but I really like the idea of the powder cop die better. The Lee expander does a nicer job and is easier to adjust than the PTX for the LNL powder measure. Take your pick.

First station: decap/size
Second station: charge, no expander.
Third station: Lee universal case expander
Fourth station: seat
Fifth station: Lee FCD.


I highly recommend the micrometer insert for pistol or rifle. They make changing charge weights a snap, and are very repeatable. (Don't forget to re-check your calibration though if you start up a new canister of powder.) If you load lots of 9mm you may only want the micrometer for the small rotor, but you will need one for the standard rotor (big one) if you load 44 mag.

Follow the directions about the dry lube use on parts when you first get it. I would recomment taking the little primer shuttle part and taking any sharp edges off of it with sand paper, then graphite the top and bottom so it slides real nice.

A note about the bushing working loose as mentioned above. Once the die is where I want it I take my water pump (adjustable) pliers and ever so very very carefully tighten the die ring about 1/64th of a turn. Just snug it up.....tighten isn't a very good word for what I am doing. That tends to tighten the bushing so you can't get it out with fingers, but use the plier to loosen it so you can remove it when needed. When I put the powder measure in I use the pliers on the bushing and just snug it in a little. I have not had any problems doing this.

Good fun all around.:guntootsmiley:

[Waldog]

I use my LNL for pistol almost exclusively. Your Lee dies will work just fine. Although they are a little short. The locking nut will only have about 1 thread holding the die. It works though.

Someone already mentioned www.powderfunnels.com. I highly recommend using the funnel in conjuction with the case activated powder measure. It is very easy to adjust and will "bell" the mouth on any case from .30 to .50cal. If you use the powderfunnel, it opens a spot on the press for a powder cop die or RCBS Lock-out die. I use ONE powderfunnel for loading 9mm, 38/357, 40 S&W, 44mag, 45acp. Works perfectly.

I bought a new LNL for my son. A DVD is now included with the instructions. The DVD takes you through the whole setup from opening the box to loading cases. It's very good.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ill say this and probably get flamed for it but ive got 3 of them. One set up for doing handgun one for .223 and one for various oddball rifle loading. They get the job done but are finky, especially the two with case feeders. If i had to do it again id have gone with 650s. The case feeder on the 650 is a much better design. The press was designed for it and its not an add on like the lnl. If i didnt have so much lnl stuff right now id still consider swaping over. There a far cry better then anything lee makes but still can make you pull your hair out at times.

[blikseme300]

Gentlemen,

I thank you for your replies. From the replies I have gathered that I can use Lee dies, including the Lee FCD, and the pistol insert in the Hornady powder measure.

My shopping list will include the following:

1. Shell plates for each caliber.
2. Pistol rotor & metering assembly
3. Pistol micrometer.
4. Lee pistol die sets.
5. Lee FCD's for each caliber.

Let the fun begin on a new adventure.

BTW - I am not set against using Dillon equipment but the cost in supporting multiple calibers is too rich for my blood.

As usual, the sharing of knowledge on this forum cannot be under estimated. Thank you for sharing.

Bliksem

[Lloyd Smale]

It doesnt cost much more on a dillon to swap calibers. With the dillon you need a shell plate and a tool head. With the hornady you need the shell plate and lock and load bushings. Lock and load bushings are a bit cheaper then tool heads but the dillon plates are a bit cheaper then the hornadys. Plus with the dillion many shell plates interchange like the 06 family of cartridges use the same shell plate as the 45acp ect and with the hornady they dont interchange because the tolarances are more critical because of the ejection system. I do wish dillon would go to a solid head and use something like the lock and load bushings. I also wish dillon would go with the better measures design that hornady uses. I love those interchangeable powder inserts and it also meters better imo. Pros for the dillon are its better primer feed and much more reliable case feeder setup.

[noylj]

Some points:
1) The Lee Universal Expander doesn't. All it does is flare the case mouth.
2) The Lee PTE dies do an excellent job of expanding and flaring/belling.
3) I would skip the Lee FCD and get a Lee taper crimp die (or anyone's taper crimp die)
4) I prefer the RCBS Lock-Out die. Don't have to look at it for it to work.
5) You never have enough dies
6) Extra bushings and a couple of spring retainers are good to have
7) Keep everything clean
8) If your powder measure/bushing moves, look for a bushing with a larger/tighter o-ring fit
9) If the press is "sticking" on a case, a little lube on the cases will solve that problem. Don't worry about a little lube on the case unless you are shooting very HOT loads
10) If something feels wrong, remove all cases and find the problem. Don't force anything.
11) Get the Hornady PTX powder-through expander inserts and read the powder measure manual
12) Watch that the bolt holding the shell plate doesn't loosen during use. Any looseness will quickly lead to high primers.
13) Don't sweat +/- 0.1gn powder charge variations. It just doesn't matter.
14) If you don't know how to find the "ideal" crimp, use a factory round to set the crimp die.
15) I doubt that any resizing die is better than Hornady's or Redding's.
16) Bullet seaters are strange. Sometimes the seater that doesn't fit the best will produce the best loads. I find that Lee and Hornady seating dies are VERY hard to beat in my guns for accuracy. Also, Lee will make a custom seating stem for about $12 and a couple of bullets.
17) Measure the case ID after expansion (and don't try to just flare/bell the case mouth). It should be 0.001-0.002" smaller than bullet diameter. Lee will make a custom expander if you are not meeting the above requirement.
18) I have loaded many thousands of rounds on my Hornady L-N-L using the Pro Auto-Disk. Very consistent and easy to use measure and the PTE dies are excellent.
19) If you spill powder, immediately pull all cases, remove the shell plate, and clean the press.
20) If the retainer spring doesn't drop in properly at station 1, push the spring in on the right side and cycle the press.
21) Always have a case in the die before locking the die down.
22) I have had problems with the black plastic "thingy" holding the primer tube in the blast shield lift up and cause problems. I wish they used a threaded bushing. If you have any problem, just tape the thing down. Don't need much, just a little something to prevent it moving up.
23) Don't fret a COL variation of +/- 0.003".
24) For Lee dies, you may have to remove the lock nut, remove the o-ring from the lock nut, and re-install the nut upside down (o-ring groove up) to gain several extra threads.
25) Be sure the pistol rotor is installed in the powder measure if you are loading pistol ammunition.
26) Mount to the heaviest/sturdiest bench you can. Progressives do not like any flex in the bench. I know some who have the bench bolted to the floor and wall (not Hornady users, though).
27) Almost all problems are operator caused. Do not get mad or frustrated. Step away and, if required, call Hornady. They are happy to help.
28) If something breaks, Hornady will replace it for free (in my experience), but, like Dillon, if you lose it you pay for it.
29) The worst part of a progressive press is filling primer tubes--a hundred rounds goes by very fast.
30) Trust me, the Hornady is a LOT cheaper for caliber conversions and all company's shell plates can work for multiple calibers. With the Dillon, though, is a lot easier have a complete caliber conversion kit for each cartridges due to the pins and other parts that various presses require. The only press I have used that I like better than the Hornady is the Dillon 1050. Didn't care for loading on the 550 or 650XL without a case feeder.

[OuchHot!]

I cannot add much to noylj, that is pretty much dead on in my experience. I found that one LnL bushing wanted to loosen. A smear of beaswax seemed to fix that and it still is removable with fingers....maybe peening a "thread" would have fixed it. Beeswax on the bolt holding the shell plate is a good idea on any progressive as major wonkiness follows if the shell plate starts getting loose. In addition to reversing locking rings on the lee dies I have ground them slightly on a sander to get more threads. I really like the powder through dies with autodisk measures. I have found the LnL is as good as anything that I have used including Dillon but it just has its own learning curve. But then I really like my ammomaster as well and they pulled that one off the market. ymmv

[blikseme300]

I am overwhelmed by the positive inputs from all of you here. Thanks to all of you.

My press and other bits shipped today and I can't wait on the new adventure.

The destination of reloading is common, it is the scenic route that makes it worth while, IMHO.

I am under no pressure to "build ammo" so I will take my time to craft my next generation reloads.

My quest is a proof that "reloading is cheaper" is a lie. Luckily reloading is cheaper therapy than a shrink needed due to work stresses however.

Bliksem

[bbqncigars]

noylj has some great info there. I'd like to add that as far as 12)shell plate bolt - I've had no problems since putting a split ring lock washer under the bolt head. As far as 29) (filling primer tubes), I modified a couple of the original Lee Auto-Prime primer trays to fill a tube in under thirty seconds as per some you tube videos.
As far as "reloading is cheaper" goes, it all depends on what/how much you're shooting. I couldn't afford to shoot the thousands of rounds per year of 25-20 I do if I were paying for factory ammo. The bottom line has always been that reloading will simply let you shoot more rounds for the same money.

[gefiltephish]

You may want to consider a spare or two of the primer slide spring #392336 and the powder measure return spring #398738. Though I've haven't lost one yet, experience tells me that if I don't have spares I WILL drop one and it will surely roll into that deep-deep-dark-dark-pit that lies in wait beneath all workbenches, never to be seen by human eyes again.

I have and didn't care for the powderfunnel. It just flares the case mouth, which I didn't find helpful with cast bullets. I use the m die instead and the Hornady powder sleeves that come with the powder drop assembly. If you do get extra quick change powder dies for each (handgun) caliber, you may want to consider having a "pistol powder sleeve" for each (#392700 about 5 bucks). Definitely not necessary but convenient, could save some unnecessary steps. I usually forget to transfer that sleeve when changing calibers and don't notice till after the hopper is filled. :groner: Again, not a big deal, just mildly annoying when it happens.

I use the Hornady lock rings on virtually all dies I use in this press. Hornady has a nice wrench available (the red anodized aluminum one) that's real handy for the dies. Well, not so for the powder die though. The same wrench also has a lump(lug?) for holding the shell plate while snugging that bolt.

Lastly, make sure the primer slide hole lines up with the primer body. It's adjusted with the black plastic thing at the top of the press frame. The plastic thing is slotted.

<edit>I know you said handgun calibers, but I also bought an extra powder drop assembly for an extra PM with the rifle rotor. </edit>

[blikseme300]

gefiltephish,

I am in agreement that the powderfunnel is not ideal. Best results with my Lee's has been when using a custom powder through insert. These inserts mimic the M-die in function. I will look into the pistol powder sleeves as well.

I will get some of the springs you mentioned as well as some other small parts to prevent down-time as much as possible. The wrench appears to be a good item to have. Added to the shopping list.

The press, some dies & plates, automatic case feeder & boolit feeder are already on their way to me.

Thanks

Bliksem