solvent free for a month and a half

[drklynoon]

I have discontinued my use of solvents when cleaning my wheelguns. So far this is working like a champ. My theory was, I am using a petrolium based lube (super Moly) why would I use a solvent and deseason my barrel after each shooting session. I still clean but I do it all dry and then run a light oil patch through when I am done. This seems to be working like a champ in my 441 taurus, .45 colt ruger, .45 acp Kimber, and the .32 H&R mag SSM. I guess this is a strange way to ask a question but is there any truth in my theory or am I full of it. If you have ever seasoned a cast iron frying pan you can know where the theory originated LOL.

[Springfield]

I rarely use solvent anymore, just clean the guns with oil. Unless I get a large build-up of something why strip all the oil out just to replace it?

[drklynoon]

That was my theory. I kept scrubbing the guts outta mine and realized that it didn't make sense. So far there has been a decrease in leading. If I could stop the buildup around my forcing cones I may be lead free as well.

[44man]

No truth in it at all. I use solvent if and when I clean which could be 2 years. I do keep the cylinder pins clean and lubed if it gets sticky.
I go so far as to use M-Pro 7 to remove ALL carbon.
It takes ONE shot to be back---YEAH, YEAH, ONE SHOT.
You can not "season" a bore. Each and every shot should leave it in the exact same condition, not any build up of anything.
If your gun groups better after 50 shots, it is because you shot better at that time.

[MGySgt]

I rarely use a solvent on my cast boolit guns. I normally just run a patch through them to see if it gets sticky (leaded). If the dry patch is sticky I use a bore brush and then another dry patch.

[fecmech]

There has been nothing but boolits down my barrels for years. I do clean the cylinder chambers and lube the crane periodically. There is nothing in the barrel that hurts accuracy, the guns rarely go more than a week or two without being shot so they are not going to rust. If you have something that hurts accuracy or are putting the gun away for a long stretch than a barrel cleaning could be a good thing.

[pdawg_shooter]

No truth in it at all. I use solvent if and when I clean which could be 2 years. I do keep the cylinder pins clean and lubed if it gets sticky.
I go so far as to use M-Pro 7 to remove ALL carbon.
It takes ONE shot to be back---YEAH, YEAH, ONE SHOT.
You can not "season" a bore. Each and every shot should leave it in the exact same condition, not any build up of anything.
If your gun groups better after 50 shots, it is because you shot better at that time.

+1 44man, I laff every time I hear about a seasoned bore. What, salt? pepper? cinnamon?

[drklynoon]

.44 man thats kinda interesting. I clean everytime I shoot and I use oil on moving parts and am still using solvents to clean carbon I'm just not using them in my bore. I haven't seen any change in accuracy but I have noticed a decrease in lead deposits. The drop off in leading without a change in load or other consitions leads me to believe that there has been some change. I do not shoot diamond hard bullets, as far as I know that makes a difference in the bore condition after shooting. We use linotype in our .44 mag and the bore never changes. Accuracy changes are purely a matter of the shooter unless the gun is leaded as far as I am concerned, (at least with handguns) After reading about the path and molecular structure of lube I do not understand how one can think that a barrel can not have a "seasoning" if the lube channels through inperfections in the machining to travel in front of the bullet then it will also build up in those area to some extent.

[44man]

What you want is that EVERYTHING left in the bore from a shot, leaves with the next and the bore will then be the same for the next shot.
Some stuff like leading or ash from burned lube will be run over and added junk will build up. You do not want any build up.

[canyon-ghost]

I just clean with mineral spirits and re-oil, no copper solvent whatsoever. After I get the jacketed cleaned out of a gun, I never go back.

Carnuba Red run throughout the the bore is nice too.

[drklynoon]

>44 man I understand your point about not wanting buildup. I just atrributed the change of lead deposits as some kind of validation that the barrel has undergone a change of sorts. I will say that my .32 H&R has a wash appearance and I have stopped trying to clean that out. I use to clean on that thing till the cows came home now not so much. Leading has virtually stopped in it though. That particular gun does need to have some work on its throats though. My other guns have no appearance of residue in the barrel after shooting. That wash appearance never seems to build up it's just there.

[btroj]

Don't worry about what people call it or if they agree about it. Your gun is happy, that is all that matters.
I tend to clean my revolvers much less often that I used to. It works, saves me time cleaning, and theymjuat don't lead. I don't see a negative.

[lbaize3]

I generally use Kroil oil to clean my pistols and revolvers. To keep rust away I use Corrosion X.

[44man]

>44 man I understand your point about not wanting buildup. I just atrributed the change of lead deposits as some kind of validation that the barrel has undergone a change of sorts. I will say that my .32 H&R has a wash appearance and I have stopped trying to clean that out. I use to clean on that thing till the cows came home now not so much. Leading has virtually stopped in it though. That particular gun does need to have some work on its throats though. My other guns have no appearance of residue in the barrel after shooting. That wash appearance never seems to build up it's just there.
That "wash" is nothing and you are correct in not worrying about it.
My secret is to not look in the barrel! :holysheep
Bad leading that fills the grooves is another story and the loading process or alloy must be fixed.
If your barrel looks the same after 1000 rounds as it did after 6, leave it alone.
If you do clean, nothing you do will change anything after taking a shot. Make the boolit friction the same by getting rid of any oil and don't depend on junk filling pores or a lead buildup.
I have finally, after many years, stopped the wife from using soap in a cast iron pan and THAT is seasoning. You can do it to your gun by stuffing the bore with vegie oil and putting the gun in the oven but I never had eggs stick in my bore!
Cast has large pores that need filled with carbon, barrel steel does not.
Whitworth was over yesterday and we shot into soaked paper all day. He wanted me to shoot a Punch bullet after I had been shooting lead, I did not like it and found brass in the bore that I need to remove. I ran a patch down today and guess what? I found a few lead flakes. Now what would a gas check or any jacketed do to remove lead? I shot a brass bullet that did not remove lead.
A cast boolit is better to push out any lead with each shot then anything else. Softer lead with a very slow boolit can remove it better but when you get too soft, you will deposit MORE with each shot. The very worst is still a .38 with pure lead. I have seen 1000 .38 smooth bores.

[44man]

OH, OH, what do I do now?
I cleaned and went to Sweets and look in my bore from ONE Punch bullet. That is BRASS. How the heck do I get this out? No more, keep the stupid bullets.

[drklynoon]

LOL those durn JB's. I shoot mainly straight WW's water dropped. I figure that is fine in my mid range type loads. The only leading I ever get originates from the forcing cone. None of my guns have the optimum cylinder throat sizes. My .45 c Vaquero is the closest and she rarely leads at all. My .32 is the worst with .311 throats and a .3115 barrel but I shoot .312's through it and give her a chore boy work out when it needs it. The deviation from solvents has so far really worked for me. I am not sure why it has made a difference but it sure has. Oh almost forgot the .32's throat size is fine compared to a Taurus I have that has .433 thraots and a .4305 barrel. Needless to say I use a GC bullet in it.

[44man]

I got it all out with enough Sweets, a good bore brush and M-Pro7. No more brass bullets!
I do NOT need brass or copper in my guns! [smilie=1:
The thing did no better then my cast anyway and cost a fortune. I think my cast went a few inches deeper in the paper too in a straight path. The Punch was found sideways.

[drklynoon]

Your boolits are harder than bronze or copper lol.

[44man]

Your boolits are harder than bronze or copper lol.
Could be! :mrgreen:
But I kept showing the guys a section of paper as large as a deer or a larger animal and asking why, if the boolit penetrates and does damage, does it have to go 30" or more?
Penetration more then needed is fine as long as it worked where needed but these tests are just a waste of time. A boolit that goes 2" deeper does not impress me.
It will always be what the boolit did while inside the animal. If it only poked a hole and went through a huge tree on the other side, what good is it? But if it ruined the internals and then went through the tree, it is OK.
Penetration tests are just fun, nothing more in the real world.

[drklynoon]

The only Merit to a penetration test IMO is for bears that are quite fat. If you bullet expands without reaching vitals or the bullet just stops penetrating before reaching vitals that is a problem. Other than that I just want good expansion without major fragmentation.

[TCLouis]

I ran almost a thousand rounds of the GB 7mm soupcan through my Husky 7mm Mag last winter (after a light firelapping exercise) and never cleaned except with rough dry patches. Barrel is SHINY.
Strangest Lube star with that gun I have seen, but it matches the rifling (unlike any I have ever seen). I am going to post pictures IF I can ever figure out how to do it.

[drklynoon]

There is little better than something working properly. The lube star on my Vaquero is kinda odd too it is just a string of lube that follows the grooves and it has a small amount of twist to it.

[parisite]

I've cleaned my guns for years with nothing else but diesel fuel. I keep a little plastic tub of it and give my handguns a bath in it when I feel the need. Is diesel a solvent or light oil? I actually think it has both charactoristics. It works superbly and makes bluing look wonderful.

[zxcvbob]

I use Dexron-II or -III transmission fluid to clean my guns.

[wgr]

I use Dexron-II or -III transmission fluid to clean my guns.

same here. works great and also balistol

[drklynoon]

Thats awesome trans fluid or diesel fuel. It's all about what works for you. I was and still am a Hoppees #9 guy, when I use solvent but all these ideas have merit.

[warf73]

If Dexron-II or -III transmission fluid & diesel fuel work great by themselfs........ how about 50/50 which makes Diesxron.
Bet that would work super great lol

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive shot a ton of punch bullets. My buddy and I tested alot of them for Kelly as he introduced new calibers. We did extensive penetration testing on them. They go more then 2 inch more into our testing medium then equivelent cast bullets. Sometimes double. Is it needed? probably not. When your talking shooting game under a 1000lbs cast bullets give plenty of penetration. There very expensive and if the ones i used on smaller game wouldnt have been free i probably wouldnt have bothered. Plus a major part of this for me is shooting game with bullets i made myself. BUT if i was going to africa or even to alaska to hunt big and dangerous stuff its what i would be taking. They do outperform cast. They step away from cast as much as cast steps away from jackteted in my opinion. When my wife shot her 1600lb water buffalo with the 50beo it was loaded with 380 grain punch bullets. She put two into the shoulder that broke the sholder on both sides and exited and one in the chest that was found under the skin on the hind quarter that had broke the back leg. (1600lb water buffalo dont die fast) Would a cast bullet have done the same. MAYBE but i wouldnt bet the farm on it. the bullet that was recovered other then the fact it had rifling engraved on it could have been reloaded and shot again. With a animal that size that possibly could come at a guy ill take all the penetration i can get. Chances are the first shot isnt going to anchor them and the follow up shots might be at about any angle and if you seen how BIG something like this is 30 inches of penetration doesnt allways guarantee your going to make it to the vitals. Just my opinion.

As to the validity of penetration tests ill say this. If done right they do give a guy somewhat of an idea of what a bullet will do. We will test every bullet two ways. First we shoot them into wet print. then we test them again shooting them into a bone followed by wet print. Weve got a buddy who has a buffalo hunting operation that keeps us in fresh big bone for testing. It may not exactly mirror a live animal but what weve found is the results on game are pretty simular to the results we get. It will show you what bullet designs penetrate well and what doesnt. It will open your eyes to how poorly some jacketed bullet designs work. Its alot of work as you have to soak news print overnight and it has to be changed out often to get uniform results but most who say it has no place and isnt accurate are usually those who are a bit to lazy to go through the hastle. Other then actually shooting game theres no better way to guage bullet performance. Truth is for most it might be a waste as im sure the biggest thing most here will shoot is a deer and about any bullet is good enough for that.

by the way to give you some ideal how well the really work. Our boxs to hold paper for testing are 48 inches deep. Its rare to get a jacketed bullet past 15 inches. The max ive seen a cast do is about 30 inches. Weve had many punch bullets blow right out the back and None do less then 30 inches.
Could be! :mrgreen:
But I kept showing the guys a section of paper as large as a deer or a larger animal and asking why, if the boolit penetrates and does damage, does it have to go 30" or more?
Penetration more then needed is fine as long as it worked where needed but these tests are just a waste of time. A boolit that goes 2" deeper does not impress me.
It will always be what the boolit did while inside the animal. If it only poked a hole and went through a huge tree on the other side, what good is it? But if it ruined the internals and then went through the tree, it is OK.
Penetration tests are just fun, nothing more in the real world.

[StrawHat]

I must have missed something, what is a "Punch Bullet"?

Thanks.

[drklynoon]

I think it's one of those bronze deals????? Either way It's not cast. Without a doubt bullet or boolit choice should be determined by the use. If you are elephant hunting then your gun and bullet choice should reflect that. My brother swore up and down that a 30-30 would not put down a deer for years. This was due to using target loads with the wrong bullet. He no uses a .33 WM for 180 pound deer. He is happy but it's a little over kill if that is possible. I am primarily a target shooter and do not use bullets that are covered. If I were to be an avid hunter I suppose I would change my habits though.

[44man]

The only Merit to a penetration test IMO is for bears that are quite fat. If you bullet expands without reaching vitals or the bullet just stops penetrating before reaching vitals that is a problem. Other than that I just want good expansion without major fragmentation.
Don't get me wrong because I love penetration and do not consider any boolit that goes through any animal a waste. I would not have it any other way.
We shot all factory cast and the Punch. But I shot one of my boolits and it was the only cast that did not have the nose wiped or smeared. It looked as good as the Punch.
There were many factory boolits that looked good but we just kept doing chrono tests at the paper and it was pretty much pulp by then.
I have magic WW's! [smilie=1: I have shot through trees and 16" of seasoned oak firewood without mashing a nose or shedding lead. I have never broken a boolit. I would not hesitate to shoot the largest animal.
While doing the velocity readings, one large boolit went all the way, hit the 1-1/4" backer board sideways, split it and pulled 16D nails loose. But we had over 50" of pulp by then.
I am wondering if pulped paper equals animal insides better?

[zxcvbob]

I must have missed something, what is a "Punch Bullet"?

Thanks.

I figured they were turned from bronze rod stock. Close: http://www.gunblast.com/BeltMtn_PunchBullet.htm

[44man]

I figured they were turned from bronze rod stock. Close: http://www.gunblast.com/BeltMtn_PunchBullet.htm
I am not sure, bronze has a red color and the punch looks like brass. They are yellow.

[felix]

Officially, it's all bronze, Jim. Bronze is nothing but copper being diluted with whatever works in doing so, a'la' Roman style. Brass is a modern name, and is a subset of bronze with zinc being the only copper dilute. ... felix

[drklynoon]

Thats good to know. I really should have known that, I did take highschool chemistry. lol

[44man]

Thats good to know. I really should have known that, I did take highschool chemistry. lol
One uses tin and the other zinc.

[454PB]

I used gas checked boolits to "delead" a badly leaded barrel after a lube experiment went wrong. The barrel was so leaded you couldn't see the rifling. After firing a cylinder full of lightly loaded gas checked boolits, the bore was shiny clean.

Marvel Mystery Oil is a good gun cleaner.

[pdawg_shooter]

If Dexron-II or -III transmission fluid & diesel fuel work great by themselfs........ how about 50/50 which makes Diesxron.
Bet that would work super great lol

I used 1/3 ATF, 1/3 mineral spirits, and 1/3 Kroil. A modified (Ed's Red.)

[Tracy]

I used 1/3 ATF, 1/3 mineral spirits, and 1/3 Kroil. A modified (Ed's Red.)

I use Ed's Red. Dexron, kerosene, mineral spirits, acetone.

[Lloyd Smale]

As to cleaning guns ive got a few approaches. My 1911s or any gun im going to be relying on to defend me or my family is kept CLEAN and oiled. Im talking CLEAN barrel action the whole shebang. Even if i only shoot 10 rounds through it its cleaned when im done. Two of my ars are used mostly for home defense and the same goes for them. Other then that i dont think ive cleaned the barrel on a handgun in 10 years. I keep the actions clean buy not religiously. When they get dirty enough that im conserned the filth might cause wear or any binding i clean them. Usually at the end of a range sesson or at the end of a day hunting i wipe the down but thats about it. I do try to oil a revolver before i shoot it every time to keep wear down but that usually just involves a drop on the ratchet a drop on the base pin and a drop on the front shoulder of the cylinder. Some tight guns like the FA and some of my customs need to be cleaned more often then out of the box rugers. They will let you know though by binding or by difficulty in chambering. If i have 3 hours in a day for shooting im sure not going to spend one of those needlessly cleaning a gun. Yes i use solvents. They just make the job faster and easier. Im kind of a solvent junky i guess. Ive probably got at least one bottle of every gun solvent that was ever made on the shelf. Some work better then others for certian cleaning jobs and some just plain dont work. As to making my own again i just dont have time to fool with it. I handload all my ammo, cast all of my bullets and even occasionaly make my own lube but even that anymore is mostly been taken over by lars lubes as i cant make them much better or much cheaper. A 10 dollar bottle of solvent last a while (if i dont spill them ;) ) and i just dont want to bother making my own.

If im being honest ill admit most of my solvents are used on rifles. About 75 percent of my handgun cleaning involves a gun being hosed down by a can of electrical cleaner and oiled and wiped down with an oily cloth afterward. Im a retired lineman and if i go back to the shop they will set me up with all the electrical cleaner i need for free. It makes cleaning a gun about a 2 minute job.

[drklynoon]

This thread has become quite interesting. The different methods and time lines for gun cleaning interest me. I rarely clean during a shooting session. If my .22 opens up then it goes in the sack and gets cleaned when I get home. I clean after everu shoot. Maybe it's just tradition but it works for me. I don't always clean a barrel, in so much, as running a brush down it. Most times a dry patch is all she gets but the other parts get cleaned. I also wipe off a tool after use before it goes back in the box lol.

[superior]

I stopped scrubbing my bores long ago. After every shooting session, I pull a patch made of cut up bath towel through the bore with a length of string trimmer line, soaked in Dexron 3. The gun sits in that condition until I take it out again. After a quick pull through with a dry patch, away we go. The bores stay bright and lead free.

[MGySgt]

My 22's I use a Bore Snake - pistol varity even in the rifle. A little break free in the chamber, a Q-Tip and then the Bore Snake - bore is real shiny!