Mosin mod progress

[wallenba]

I have got my stock cut down. I was unable to save the endcap on the front upper hand guard, but have managed to form a decent replacement out of sheet brass. The steel forend guard on the lower is a total write-off, just can't be used. The barrel and stock just taper too much. I've managed to inlet the lower for both the sling slot and the barrel band retainer spring. It really takes a lot of sanding to do that move. A little more sanding to get the lower nose contour just right will be needed too. I have a 90 degree facing cutter with pilot and an 11 degree target crown cutter as well as a brass lap and radius cutter on the way from Brownells. I plan to use J-B weld to hold the new brass end cap on as well as the sling slot escutcheons ( can't seem to get the old screws in square ).

What I need now is a recommendation for a chemical stripper to get the old finish off the stock.

[Buckshot]

................Looks like a fun project so far. What'cha making out of it? Easy Off oven cleaner will do the job on the old finish.

................Buckshot

[Mooseman]

Buckshot... Honestly , Gun stocks are Not Ovens.
Oven cleaners with Lye (Sodium hydroxide) should NEVER be used on wood stocks or furniture. It weakens the wood fibers on the outer depths.Lye is what is used to break wood pulp down into slurry for paper.
Use a liquid Paint stripper made for wood or a glass scraper for removing old shellacs, varnishes , etc.
Degrease the cosmoline with Mineral spirits first of course.
Rich

[nicholst55]

If your stock has the original shellac finish on it, most anything will remove it - denatured alcohol will do it in a jiffy. Another one that I like for oil finishes is Formby's Furniture Refinisher (http://www.formbys.com/products/refinisher/) in the gallon can.

Either do this outside or wait until nobody else is home and wear a respirator! I fill an empty (small) paint pail about 1/2 full of Formby's, place the butt end in the pail, and wipe the stock down with #0000 steel wool dipped in the Formby's. Wipe the stock down with clean Formby's when finished, and let it dry.

Do any necessary filling and sanding, then apply a coat of Minwax Pre-Stain Wood Conditioner (http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner). Allow it to dry according to instructions, and then stain or apply finish. This is especially important for woods like birch and beech, as it allows them to take the stain uniformly.

[wallenba]

................Looks like a fun project so far. What'cha making out of it? Easy Off oven cleaner will do the job on the old finish.

................Buckshot

I'm making a scout scope rifle Buckshot. Just because I get bored in winter and have the time and curiosity to see what I can do I guess. If I do screw up, it won't have cost me too much. I really like the military look of the rifles, so I'm trying to keep that in the details. I like the carbines a lot, but only own one, an M38 with a real fat bore. This is a mismatched numbered 91/30 I bought at Dunham's and it slugged .312, so I'm going to cut it the same length as the M38. If it turns out well, I'll make a couple for my nephews. They have been coveting my M38 and their dad's 91/59. One of them is a lefty, so the straight bolt of the Mosin helps him.

[wallenba]

If your stock has the original shellac finish on it, most anything will remove it - denatured alcohol will do it in a jiffy. Another one that I like for oil finishes is Formby's Furniture Refinisher (http://www.formbys.com/products/refinisher/) in the gallon can.

Do any necessary filling and sanding, then apply a coat of Minwax Pre-Stain Wood Conditioner (http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner). Allow it to dry according to instructions, and then stain or apply finish. This is especially important for woods like birch and beech, as it allows them to take the stain uniformly.

I think I'll look into the Formby's. I worry about using something that might raise the grain. Still, I do have some scrap pieces from the forend that I can see what happens with the Oven cleaner. I only have one major ding to fill, just behind the grip area. If I use epoxy and sawdust as filler, will it take stain?

[skeet1]

On that Mosin, I have found that acetone is just the ticket to remove the old shellac the Russians used. Just take some acetone on a rag and it dissolves right off. I had a 91/30 that I just couldn't stand the old finish and I removed it leaving a very nice stock underneath. The purists don't like it but I do. I then used some danish tung oil on it and it turned out great.

[wallenba]

That has a real nice tone Skeet. I'm looking at a can of acetone on the shelf right now. Think I'll do a little 'speramentin'.

[dragonrider]

No reason to worry about rainsing the grain, it harms nothing, and usually happens when using a water soluable remover. Just wait until dry and lightly sand.

[skeet1]

After the Acetone treatment on my Mosin I just used a little 0000 steel wool to remove any whiskers left on the wood and applied the Danish Tung Oil. This way the corners were left sharp and not rounded and the different arsenal marks stayed intact. The Purists have said that I have damaged the value of the rifle but the value of a common refurb 91/30 will probably never amount to much because of the many millions of them around. At least I like it where I didn't before.

Ken

[birdadly]

I sure like it. I'm no 'purist' and like you said, if it's just a normal mosin, I doubt it will kill the value of it. I paid $99 for mine and after seeing your pic, I think I'll look into doing the same! -Brad

[wallenba]

Right now I don't worry about the purists. I have enough nice ones that will remain unmolested, that I feel OK about altering some of the less than fair shape ones. Like Birdadly and Ken say, they cost less than $100 anyway. Would I do this to my Mauser or my K31? I get sick just thinking of that!

I just finished cutting the barrel down so I mocked up the work so far to show the look I'm going for.

Hey!! I just got my second boolit!

[wallenba]

I started stripping the old finish off last night. I'm using a 3M product that is safe to use indoors. It's not very fast, each application takes about 1 & 1/2 hours. This wood is pretty ugly and smells like charcoal. It has a lot of mottling, I don't know if its natural or just sloppy application of original stain. I think its from sloppiness in the factory, I don't think mother nature screws up this bad.
I guess I will use a real dark stain to try and hide it.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot... Honestly , Gun stocks are Not Ovens.
Oven cleaners with Lye (Sodium hydroxide) should NEVER be used on wood stocks or furniture. It weakens the wood fibers on the outer depths.Lye is what is used to break wood pulp down into slurry for paper.


..............Oops! :-) Okey doke, but I have to admit I've used it a bunch.

.............Buckshot

[Artful]

You know unless it was Joe Stalin's, I don't see any harm in making it over - not even a K-31 if you want too. It's like hotrod'n a car, it's what makes it yours.

Looking good.

Here's my scout M38 - barrel was all counter bored so had it chopped and threaded
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Misc/0612112302.jpg
We couldn't seem to match the first refinish so made the cheek rest black, But still have the dog collars
Still shooting up that Surplus ammo so the can helps with blast and flash

[Hang Fire]

I wondered if the can kept the muzzle flash and noise down any, looks good?

Does the M38 has the the rear sight installed on a dovetail retained by only one pin? I am looking for a good M38 for the wife to use with light cast loads and may do a scout mount on the dovetail to keep the scope low.

[Uncle Grinch]

If your stock has the original shellac finish on it, most anything will remove it - denatured alcohol will do it in a jiffy. Another one that I like for oil finishes is Formby's Furniture Refinisher (http://www.formbys.com/products/refinisher/) in the gallon can.

Either do this outside or wait until nobody else is home and wear a respirator! I fill an empty (small) paint pail about 1/2 full of Formby's, place the butt end in the pail, and wipe the stock down with #0000 steel wool dipped in the Formby's. Wipe the stock down with clean Formby's when finished, and let it dry.

Do any necessary filling and sanding, then apply a coat of Minwax Pre-Stain Wood Conditioner (http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner). Allow it to dry according to instructions, and then stain or apply finish. This is especially important for woods like birch and beech, as it allows them to take the stain uniformly.

I second the use of Formby's. Been using it for many years on furniture and found it works great on most all gunstocks (Remington glossy stocks excluded). The trick is to pour a small amount (an ounce or two) in a shallow container and dab a piece of 4/0 steel wool in it. Rub the stock with the wet steel wool and wipe it with a clean rag before it dries. I then wipe it all down with acetone to remove and "old stain" residue. Very little sanding is required with this method.

[Artful]

I wondered if the can kept the muzzle flash and noise down any, looks good?


Yes, the suppressor is there specifically to keep the blast down so my shooting buddies can stand sitting the next table over. :bigsmyl2:

[littlejack]

Artful, Could you give us some more information on the supressor.
The make, availability, amount of decible reduction, and of course, the price.
I have a M44 that I have sporterized, and it would look very nice with one of those
supressors on it.
Thanks
Jack

[Artful]

littlejack my can is AAC Cyclone I bought some years ago - they make an improved model now.
The M38 in 7.62x54R has not been tested so I don't have data on my rifle.
The AAC Cyclone Mod '08 retails for $850 and of course the $200 NFA tax
- you may find better pricing depending upon your dealer.
http://nfatalk.org/forum/showthread.php?t=947
has tested Remington 700 with 20" barrel chambered in 308 / 7.62x51
using 147gn FMJ surplus 7.62 NATO ammo at 2,700 FPS
in that rifle with that ammo on that day the can measured A-weighted
Averaged 144 db suppressed 1 meter left of muzzle - 169 db unsuppressed
132 db at the ear - but unsuppressed 164.5 at ear , which is a 32.5 db reduction

I think the 7.62x54R will be a little louder as it uses more powder.

here's an AAC 7.62SD tested on PTR91 (not best of hosts) to see it's quite a bit quieter than normal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IrbIhduwYQ&feature=plcp&context=C3c96aa1UDOEgsToPDskKtJzBOKw3X6sqcVf4udNVV

Now of course there are other suppressors out there besides the AAC Cyclone -
-The advantage at the time I bought my can was full auto rated, good reduction in both supersonic and subsonic ammo. (some cans work better at each velocity range but Cyclone was in top 3 in both)
-The disadvantages the can can't be taken apart to be cleaned, it's heavy (affects point of impact), cost of can (some others currently offered and are less expensive and almost as effective).

As far as threading your rifle, if the M44 barrel is thin like the M38 then your machinist/gunsmith may have to thread one size and make a bushing that screws on the barrel then the bushing will be threaded for the suppressor. My suppressor and rifles all have 5/8 threading same as AR10 or M60's.

[littlejack]

Thank you for the information.
Jack

[Artful]

Your welcome - if your only going to shoot subsonic in a 30 cal you might look into a 9mm can - it won't handle the surplus ammo but would be fine with subsonic loads and is much cheaper option.

But safety depends upon you to not shoot a full power load rifle load thru it.

[littlejack]

Right now, I am working on building my cast boolit loads. I do not know the velocity yet, as that will depend on the accuracy.
I have two boolits that I cast. The NOE 316299 200+ grain and a Lyman 31950 105 grain fly killer.
I figured the suppressor would work good for them.
I don't want to spend way too much $$$ on one though.

[Artful]

Bang for buck for subsonic only is 9mm can you can use on handguns and subsonic rifle loads. But if you want to tame the blast of surplus your going to have to step up in price to dedicated 30 cal (or larger) rifle can. Usually Stainless/inconel or Titanium construction costs some bucks. Best advice is save up and buy the best available when you get to the point you have the money. You will regret buying a poor quality cheap can for a very long time as resale value is pretty much nonexistant and you'll be out the 200 NFA stamp cost.

I have not tried any light weight bullets in mine but the 31950 sounds interesting - give us a report back once you find a load that your happy with.

Biggest problem with cast in a sealed can is you have to soak it to clean out stuff like lead and lube - It can be cleaned but it's not easy.

[wallenba]

Well guys, I finished it much sooner that I expected. I think I will put a few more coats of the satin polyurethane on it though. I learned a lot, especially that crowning the barrel is not as mysterious as I thought. The Brownells cutters and other tools did a wonderful job. Next one I do I will not inlet for the front sling slot. A Mannlicher type sling swivel will be much easier. In my internet travels looking for solutions I found these http://brassstacker.com/front-sight-adapter-ring/ they should also make it easier (if they stay on). Here's a before and after pic, the 91/30 is not the same one I cut down, just for comparison.

Oh yeah...the scope sitting on the rifle is a 20-25 year old Tasco .22 pistol scope. I am going to test it to destruction LOL [smilie=s:

[Hang Fire]

Looks good, should make for a handy little rifle.

That old Tasco scope might fool you, around 45 years ago I put a 4 pwr Tasco on a .35 Gibbs I had. The Gibbs recoil kicked like a Missouri mule strung out on a Jimson Weed binge. But it held up fine to it all.

[RonE]

I once had a 91-30 and I believe it was the most fun I ever had with a rifle. To strip the stock, I went to Ace Hardware and got a can of paint and varnish remover, painted it on and wiped it off (two times). Never could get it to shoot very well until I cut 8" off the barrel and recrowned it with a round headed screw and powdered clenser. Here is a link to my project:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=369278&highlight=snipper+Rifle
For a rifle that costs only $100 how much can you hurt it? Mine actually shot better when I finished with it and then sold it for about what I had in it.

[Artful]

Nice work - now tell us how it shoots for ya.

[Trey45]

http://images110.fotki.com/v615/photos/6/1809686/10076464/RugerScoutandMosinsawedoff003-vi.jpg

Here's a sawed off Mosin I bought from a buddy of mine, sitting next to a Gunsite Scout for size comparison. He sent it off to have it Duracoated, he bedded it and installed the bent bolt handle bolt. I no longer own that Mosin, it's harsh on recoil.

[pastorcurtis]

I did something similar with a 91/30 last winter. It was a fun project with the kids. Can't beat an $80 rifle!

[Artful]

http://images110.fotki.com/v615/photos/6/1809686/10076464/RugerScoutandMosinsawedoff003-vi.jpg

Here's a sawed off Mosin I bought from a buddy of mine, sitting next to a Gunsite Scout for size comparison. He sent it off to have it Duracoated, he bedded it and installed the bent bolt handle bolt. I no longer own that Mosin, it's harsh on recoil.

Muzzle can helped a lot with that recoil as did the recoil pad. I love mine now before it was a Historic conversation piece but you had friends shoot the M38 to show them how much we are sissy's now compared to WWII vets.:kidding:

[wallenba]

http://images110.fotki.com/v615/photos/6/1809686/10076464/RugerScoutandMosinsawedoff003-vi.jpg

Here's a sawed off Mosin I bought from a buddy of mine, sitting next to a Gunsite Scout for size comparison. He sent it off to have it Duracoated, he bedded it and installed the bent bolt handle bolt. I no longer own that Mosin, it's harsh on recoil.

It looks nice and light. I can't quit make it out in the pic, but can you remember if that was Williams ramp and sight? What height was the front sight if so?

[Hang Fire]

Here is my prebubbarized Tula MN picked up for 25 bucks, scout scoped (Bushnell 2-6 Trophy XLT ) it on the 12 mm dovetail beneath rear sight and made a riser cheek piece. Truely fearsome with milsurp, but a tame kitten with cast boolits. That is a Lyman ramp front sight someone had put on it. Have a 11 mm dovetail Mendoza aperture sight on order for backup if scope fails in the field.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010313.jpg

[wallenba]

That looks nice HangFire. If I can sell that type of stock modification to my nephews, it will save me a lot of work. Is that a generic cheek rest and recoil pad?

I've yet to get mine to the range. I have had some trouble with the S&K scout mount setting it up. The four set screws make it difficult. Next time the Weaver type will be used.

[Hang Fire]

Thanks for the comment, the stock was as is when I got it.

The lace up cheek piece I made up from heavy scrap leather (soaked wet to be more pliablle and then shrinks tight in place when dried ) and a hard piece of rubber. The recoil pad is a slip on one can buy most anywhere, got mine from Wally World.

Mine is a Tula, (bit more trouble) but most Izzie 91/30 rear sights are held in place with two pins, which can be drifted out to remove the sight. Beneath the sight is a 12 mm dovetail and is what I mounted the 11 mm dovetail/weaver adaptor mount on. The mount cost a whopping $8.50 and is hard to believe such quality could go for so low a price.

http://cdn.pyramydair.com/images/zoomed/UTG-Tactical-Rail-Adaptor-22cal_MNT-PMTOWL_rail-adaptor_zm.jpg

http://cdn.pyramydair.com/images/zoomed/UTG-Tactical-Rail-Adaptor-22cal_MNT-PMTOWL_rail-adaptor_zm2.jpg

[leadman]

Artful, I have been using the foaming bore cleaners to clean my muzzle-brakes. It does remove any lead flash and the powder fouling.
Do you think this would work for your can?

I may have to pick up a Mosin or 2 if I can find them already bubbad.

I have a threaded contender barrel in 300 Whisper, a nagant gas seal revolver, and a 1903a3 Smith Corona sporter that the guy was going to toss. these would all be good candiates for a suppressor.
Read that there is a proposal to allow suppressors in Az for some types of hunting. Wouldn't that be nice?

[wallenba]

HangFire, can you tell me the make of that mount adapter? I went over to Midway to search for it, but that category has 117 pages! I did find one, but it was $29.

[CLAYPOOL]

I went to the 91/30 site, ...let me tell you those guys tell you in no uncertain terms to NOT tinker or alter ANY military rifle...

[Hang Fire]

I got two from Amazon with 2 day shipping. It is a UTG 11 mm to weaver adaptor and is sold by several outlets.

http://www.amazon.com/UTG-11mm-Weaver-Adapter-Adjustable/dp/B001CJ67E6

http://www.google.com/#pq=rifling+twist+for+black+powder+express+cartrid ges&hl=en&sugexp=pfwl&cp=9&gs_id=2k&xhr=t&q=utg+11mm+to+weaver+adapter+adjustable&pf=p&biw=960&bih=465&sclient=psy-ab&pbx=1&oq=utg+11+mm&aq=0l&aqi=g-l2g-lv2&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=fc86919fe30c895c

One thing should add. On the izzie sights retained by the two pins, I have read where there might also be a bit of solder that will need to be heated to release.

On my Tula there were no pins, the sight had been soft soldered to the dovetail. Didn't take much heat and the sight just slid off front of dovetail, while still hot took piece of cloth and wiped solder off, followed by steel wood to remove the tinned effect.

[Hang Fire]

I went to the 91/30 site, ...let me tell you those guys tell you in no uncertain terms to NOT tinker or alter ANY military rifle...

And your point is?

[wallenba]

I went to the 91/30 site, ...let me tell you those guys tell you in no uncertain terms to NOT tinker or alter ANY military rifle...

I have a lot of military rifles now. The only ones I would consider modifying are the Mosins. Mosins are plentiful, cheap. The rooskies made over 17 million of these, and they are not going to use them again. They will be coming over here for a good while. I have some of the more desirable ones and they will NOT be touched. Not to worry, we will always have plenty in original form to admire.

I do cringe a bit when I see a sporterized Mauser or a K31, and get a bit teary when I see a sportered 1903 or SMLE.

Would I sell my Mopar to kid who would make a low rider out of it? NOOooo.:bigsmyl2:

[Catshooter]

Yes, that site is full of COLLECTORS. And they mean it.

Don't be too sure that they'll always be plentiful and cheap. We used to think that about Rolling Blocks, 1911s, 1917s (all three types), you name it.


Cat

[Artful]

I have never thought that modification of a bubba's gun is going to hurt it further - I changed my SMLE to 45 ACP but did it to a gun that had already been altered not my SMLE in military dress. My M38 Mosin had been counterbored and refinished before I got ahold of it so no harm on it either. You can take a with a grain of salt what a collector forum response will be - maybe I should join so I can post a pic of mine to yank their chain.

[leadman]

I have a few nice collector rifles but have no problem restoring an old bubba job to shooting condition. I am also in the process of modifying a 93 Mauser to 7.62X39. The receiver has had to front of the front ring ground on a little and it is uneven. Not enough to casuse problems, just unsightly.
Also the barrel is extremely worn, the stock had mulitple cracks and deep dings. I refinished it but still not a collector piece.

I was thinking of making it a switch barrel gun but probably won't do that. I may mount a scout scope on it so I can change it back to military configuration.

[Hang Fire]

A switch barrel would be neat.

I have been reading about the Ballard rifles. Was a bit surprised that even in the 1870s as to how many had switch barrels. Some were not even threaded, but had a close slip fit and were retained in the frame by a tapered wedge.

[Artful]

I have a few nice collector rifles but have no problem restoring an old bubba job to shooting condition. I am also in the process of modifying a 93 Mauser to 7.62X39. The receiver has had to front of the front ring ground on a little and it is uneven. Not enough to casuse problems, just unsightly.
Also the barrel is extremely worn, the stock had mulitple cracks and deep dings. I refinished it but still not a collector piece.

Good Idea! I love mine
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4374/dsc06117.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4302/dsc06118.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4912/dsc06119.jpg

[Pigslayer]

On that Mosin, I have found that acetone is just the ticket to remove the old shellac the Russians used. Just take some acetone on a rag and it dissolves right off. I had a 91/30 that I just couldn't stand the old finish and I removed it leaving a very nice stock underneath. The purists don't like it but I do. I then used some danish tung oil on it and it turned out great.

Care should be taken with the acetone even though I know that it works well. It is readily absorbed through the skin and heads straight fot the liver. I don't know if nitrile gloves will stop it or not.:coffee:

[x101airborne]

Good Idea! I love mine
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4374/dsc06117.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4302/dsc06118.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4912/dsc06119.jpg

I love those converted mauser actions. And I mainly convert stripped actions, so I am not commiting herresy.

I am envious of that trigger guard. Can I have more information please? If I am thread hi-jacking, please PM me.

[Artful]

x101airborne - PM sent