Forming 30-06 brass to 8X57 (8mm mauser)

[Love Life]

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[bruce drake]

Save yourself some money. Just cut the 30-06 case down from 63mm to 57mm with a pipe cutter, dremel blade or hacksaw and then run the case through the 8x57 sizing die to reform the new shoulder. Fireform with a light load and you are just fine.

Bruce

[Maven]

I have and use the Redding form & trim die and have to admit, it's easier using it than simply running a .30-06 case into a 8 x 57mm FL sizing die. I.e., although you have to FL resize and trim a 2nd time (to the exact case length) when using the forming die , it is still easier than cutting to exact length the very long neck you're left with if you use the 8 x 57mm FL die.

[ReloaderFred]

I've made 7.92x57 aka 8mm Mauser, for many years from .30-06 brass. All I do is run the .30-06 case into the 8mm die and then trim off the excess neck.

For fire forming brass, I put about 15 grains of a fast pistol powder into the primed case and fill to the top with corn meal, tamping it enough to hold it in place. You just keep the barrel pointed towards the sky when fire forming, and swab the chamber after every couple of rounds to remove the stray corn meal granules so you won't get dimples in the brass.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[felix]

LL, it's OK to fireform with full load shootables up front. This is only true when you can get zero cartridge headspace with bolt closed. If the cases are loose upon bolt closure without a boolit, there is reason to do either of two types of loading. One is to fireform first with grits, sawdust, or whatever. The other if the case does not need much fitting otherwise is to just shoot a long boolit that grabs the lands hard upon bolt closure, and to reduce the charge a little so as not to blast hot gas past the boolit leading the barrel. ... felix

[Beekeeper]

Love Life,
I have used a RCBS forming die for 50 + years and have had very good luck with it.
I anneal the brass before forming and cut with a hacksaw.
After I get them all formed I trim them with a Lee Trimmer.
Only problem is you have to watch out to not use too much or not enough sizing lube.
Prior to use you need to anneal once more or get a few split necks.
You should full length resize before loading the first time
In all the years I have been forming 7MM and 8x57MM from 30-06 I have lost approx 20 cases.

I highly recommend a forming die as it reduces the stress on your sizing dies as they are hardened for the purpose and a FLSD isn't

Go forth and enjoy

beekeeper

[felix]

Anneal only if required because the cases you have might be soft enough. Complete one case to be fully prepped. Shoot the case in the gun. If no split, you are good to go with the entire batch of THOSE cases so marked by brand and lot. RCBS dies are HARD. You can full length a 30-06 case into the 8mm die with zero problems. Use a 50 percent lanolin solution as lube, and do NOT lube the neck at all. Take out the expanding button rod first. Now cut off the extra case length that was generated. Test for full bolt closure before going further. Adjust die until you can a noticeable feel upon bolt closure. ... felix

[felix]

1a. 1st run, put die onto shellholder and back off a half turn; do the case
1b. cut off to exactly the length TO BE trimmed in the books; not length for after a trim length; you want the case to be at maximum length for the cartridge.
1c.. do the gun test for case headspace; you want tight bolt closure to full closure;lube locking lugs well
1d. if too tight, close die down a half turn; and redo the case in die, and then gun again.
1e. continue process by quarter turns; expect springing the press to do this; the press will bounce back

[felix]

Use magic marker to coat the case neck with dummy loaded round. Case neck should not show any scrapes upon total bolt closure...

Also, it will not hurt to verify the neck slope getting smaller per sizing iteration, to make sure you are decreasing headspace and not getting hang ups at the case base by the cartridge being too fat. ..... felix

[Char-Gar]

I have made many 8mm Mauser cases from 30-06 six brass using a file trim die. I just adjust it to the shell holder like a full length sizing die. Use Imperial case lube and run the case into the die. I use a fine tooth hacksaw to cut off the excess and give it a couple of swipes with a double cut file to square the case mouth with the top of the die. I then deburr the case mouth and that is that. I have never annealed a case.

There is no need to fireform the cases as the headspace will be correct as it comes from the die. I have checked this many times with a Wilson gauge. If you have a rifle with a long chamber that is another issue. But if your chamber is within spec, just load the cases and shoot.

Be aware there is a difference between RCBS and Redding file trim dies. The RCBS is cut to FL length size the case as well and the Redding does not. If you use a Redding, you will still have to FL resize the case before use.

[Larry Gibson]

I've used the Redding 8x57 form dies for years with complete success and satisfaction. I used the standard FL die thingy for some years but got tired of the various and unsatisfactory ways cutting the excees brass off before forming/triming. Tried various ways of sawing, tube cutters, etc but seemed I was always messing up by cutting some of it too short.

I came into 500 LC Match '06 cases some time for making into one lot of cases for a favorite 8x57. I broke down and got the 8x57 form die as I figured I could use it also as the basis to form the other Mauser cartridges from. It works very well as the initial form step for 8x57, 7x57, 7.65 Argentine, 7.7 Jap, 6.5x57, 6.5 jap and 6.5x55. I lightly lube the clean cases with Dillon spray lube and run up into the die so the shell holder is bumped against the bottom of the form die, then use fine tooth small hacksaw to cut the case necks off. I don't bother with a file because the final trim but use a case mouth camfer tool to debur the inside of the case mouth while it is still in the die. The case is then withdrawn from the form die and tossed into a large bin.

When a batch are initially formed I then use the FL die to finish sizing. The cases are already still lubed so relubing isn't needed. With the 8x57, 7.65, 7.7 Jap the FL die is set to fit the chamber headspace for the rifle used. A single sizing and then a final trim to correct length on the Forster trimmer with electric screw drive power is next. A final inside and outside neck camfer and the cases are ready for loading. Most often an initial anneal is not necessary for those cartridges but after a couple firings I anneal them anyway.

With the smaller calibers I do an intermediate neck/shoulder sizing using a backed out .308W die with the decap rod removed. I size the neck down and set the shoulder back short of the final cartridge shoulder. Depending on the case hardness sometimes annealing is necessary after this sizing. This intermediate sizing and annealing, if necessary, prevents wrinkled necks, dimpled shoulders and the occasional crumpled case. On some I will then outside neck turn slightly for uniformity.

Some don't think it's worth forming your own cases but it is to me as I use mostly scrounged cases from the range and cases given to me for nothing or for a low cost (if I know they are once fired). My formed cases have all been very good ones. Besides, it's all part of the game. To me the Redding form die was/is well worth the cost......wish I had gotten it years before I did........

Larry Gibson

[Maven]

"Do either of you anneal your brass? I read through the 5 page thread on the Military rifles subforum, and some annealed and some didn't, but nobody said why."

Love Life, Forming & FL sizing the trimmed brass work it pretty heavily or so I suspect. Ergo, I anneal the neck & shoulder after the final trim and prior to reloading it, but I still get neck splits after 5 - 7 firings.

[Larry Gibson]

Maven

I used to get split necks about as often with milsurp '06 cases (US) reformed to 8x57. Most 8x57 milsurp chamber necks are quite generous in diameter. Did some measuring and found the NS die was sizing the thicker reformed necks too much also. I honed it out so with my reformed '06 cases I get .002 - .003 neck tension on my .325 sized cast bullets. The expander doesn't touch the case neck insides on the way out now. I just anneal once now in about every 10 firings or so out of habit.

With thinner necked commercial 8x57 cases I FL size them in an RCBS X-die and don't have that problem with that die as it sizes them against a mandrel. The expander slides through easily indicating not much sizing and that the necks are still soft. Many reformed 8x57 cases won't size in the X-die unless the necks are turned thinner.

Larry Gibson

[Shiloh]

I've made 7.92x57 aka 8mm Mauser, for many years from .30-06 brass. All I do is run the .30-06 case into the 8mm die and then trim off the excess neck.

For fire forming brass, I put about 15 grains of a fast pistol powder into the primed case and fill to the top with corn meal, tamping it enough to hold it in place. You just keep the barrel pointed towards the sky when fire forming, and swab the chamber after every couple of rounds to remove the stray corn meal granules so you won't get dimples in the brass.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Interesting way to fireform brass.

Shiloh

[ReloaderFred]

It works great and is much more economical than shooting bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[adrians]

It works great and is much more economical than shooting bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

how much noise does your method make fred?.
i live inside city limits but if it saves me a trip to the range (and having to wait an hour or two sometimes for a spot to open up :groner:) to fireform some cases without the lawmen showing up at my door, that would be great.:twisted:[smilie=1::evil:

[ReloaderFred]

adrians,

It makes enough noise that I wouldn't want to do it in a residential neighborhood. It's kind of like a subdued blank going off. There is also enough blast that you could damage your ceiling if you fired them off in the garage. They're best done at the range, or out in the country, since it's a little more than a .22 LR going off.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[adrians]

o.k fred thats kinda what i thought but was just checking.
i'm going to my brother-in -laws this weekend ,he has plenty of open space where he's at so that'll work.
i just hate to waste lead when i don't have to .
:bigsmyl2:

[Larry Gibson]

Just be careful with those loads. Just because there's no bullet doesn't mean they're not dangerous at close range. Friend of mine blew a hole in his barn cealing with such loads.

Larry Gibson

[camaro1st]

if the form die and fl die used, does it still need to be fire formed?

[ReloaderFred]

Larry Gibson is correct, they are dangerous at close range, so be careful and point them straight up.

camaro1st,

I've never used the form die, so I don't know. All I've ever done is run them through the 8x57 die and then trim to length. Those work best if fire formed after trimming. There will also be a ring on the neck of the newly formed 8x57 brass from the neck/shoulder of the .30-06 case. It doesn't hurt anything.

Hope this helps.

Fred