tc encores

[ss40_70]

ok i need some helpful advice ,.. i had a fellow stop by today offer me an ss encore with a 209-50 barrel rifle walnut furniture and a cheaper bushnell scope on it in trade for a lawn tractor i have had for sale ,.. .. im figurin my tractors worth about $650

so what im curios about is whats it realistcly worth as a frame and stock if i take into acount that i have no interest in the 209-50 barrel
and what would a reasonable asking price on the 209-50 barrel minus the scope if i resell it
finaly cost to buy a new barrel and forearm to play with
ive been looking on gunbroker and not real sure how realistic some of those prices are

[quilbilly]

I have an Encore with two barrels, and stainless 204 and a blued 250-3000 and enjoy both immensely though have not yet started using CB's in the 250 (I do have the mold).
New Encore rifle barrels run a bit over $300 and, in the popular calibers, I see used centerfire barrels in the $280 range regularly. I don't think you will be able to get that much for the 50x209 barrel since the muzzleloader barrels have a much smaller market.
You should get in the range of $230 for it if it is in good condition.

[7br]

If you happen to be a hunter education instructor, you can get a pretty decent deal on new barrels from T/C. I picked up an encore years ago that way and bought a .280 barrel for it last year.

[stubshaft]

If you happen to be a hunter education instructor, you can get a pretty decent deal on new barrels from T/C. I picked up an encore years ago that way and bought a .280 barrel for it last year.

T/C is in limbo since relocating after being bought by S&W. You can try MGM or Bullberry for barrels.

[leadman]

H&H Sporting Goods sells new Encore and Contender barrels at very reasonable prices. I paid $230 for a stainless 15" in 6mm PPC, new. They sell on GunBroker as jbchurch.

Also Ed's Contender on the web is a great source. I think he takes trades.

Be aware T/C now makes a muzzleloader that looks like and Encore but the barrel is not interchangeable. No Form whatever on this gun, can be mailed.

I think here in AZ you would be getting the short end of that deal. If it had a higher quality scope on it the deal might be ok.

There is alot of activity on Speciality Pistols for these so you may look on that site for info.

[ss40_70]

thanks guys , i think im going to pass on the encore , i like the idea of being able to just buy a barrel instead of a whole rifle ... but i think lead mans right by the time i sell the 209-50 barrel and buy what i want along with a new forearm im going to be upside down on it

[ss40_70]

well so much for passing on the encore , i was made an offer i couldnt refuse , rifle and $250 in cash ...... i guess i have the big guy upstairs to thank for this i was tryin to sell a tractor and snowblower and guess what .. it snowed .

ok so whats your fav cast boolit barrels i'm open to suggestions

[leadman]

Do check Gunbroker for jbchurch, best prices on new barrels I have seen.
If you hunt something in a belted magnum like the 7mm Rem or 300 win mag. with jacketed.
A 30-06 is one you can't go wrong with. If you like pistol calibers just about all are available for the Encore. the 357 Max is a popular cast boolit shooter along with the 45-70.
I have a 243 Win and a 6mm PPC but have not shot cast out of these, yet.

A 223 shoots real well with cast or jacketed. I have one in the Contender.

If you want the finest accuracy check out SSK or MGM barrels. more money but normally very accurate.

Check out the Speciality Pistols website for info and look at the classifieds there.

You do know that you will "need" more than one additional barrel?

[ss40_70]

yea i kind of figured thats these are like bpcr shooting ... you start small and watch it snowball into a big huge mess , .. right now im leaning towards thinking i will need a rifle barrel for cast boolits and varmits

[ss40_70]

hmm this could cause problems .. ssk is only a short 25 minute drive from my home ,

[Ed in North Texas]

You finally got a good deal. A little over a year ago I bought an Encore 7mm-08, plus a 209-50 barrel, walnut furniture for the 7-08 and a second complete plastic (whatever they make) stock and fore end for the BP. 2 cheap scopes already mounted and a hard case for $735 shipped.

[Ed in North Texas]

One thing to watch out for is the issue of pistol or rifle. ATFE's latest "guidance" is that if the frame was sold as a pistol, then it can be configured as a rifle and then back to a pistol without ever violating the law. But if it was initially sold as a rifle, the reverse isn't true - you can't legally put a pistol barrel (under 16") on the frame. Eventually they might actually get around to saying it doesn't matter as long as you do the full configuration switch (pistol grip with pistol barrel, rifle stock with rifle barrel) - but don't hold your breath.

Ed

[ss40_70]

well i had thought of that ed .. not sure how concerned i should be ? .. i dont realy shoot anywhere other then at home mostly .. and getting pistol furniture is/was on the agenda a while down the road

[Ed in North Texas]

well i had thought of that ed .. not sure how concerned i should be ? .. i dont realy shoot anywhere other then at home mostly .. and getting pistol furniture is/was on the agenda a while down the road

If a person restricted their use of the pistol configuration to a home range, I don't see where they would have any worries of someone reporting them (unless they ticked off a friend/relative something terrible). That would be a choice every person would have to make for his/herself. I have a more than adequate backstop for cast boolits down the pasture, but for safety jacketed should go to the club range. And I have no plans to acquire the furniture for a handgun configuration. I have handguns ranging from .22 through .44 Magnum and just don't have a great need to add a rifle caliber single shot pistol.

[leadman]

If you read that letter ( ATF Rul. 2011-4) closely it refers to not making a pistol out af a gun sold ONLY as a rifle. This would be like making a pistol out of a 98 Mauser, Win 70, etc.
As long as you take the Encore or Contender back down to the frame and attach the appropriate parts and do not make a short barreled rifle you are good to go.
I did talk with an ATF agent here in Phoenix on this subject 2 days ago.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

If you read that letter ( ATF Rul. 2011-4) closely it refers to not making a pistol out af a gun sold ONLY as a rifle. This would be like making a pistol out of a 98 Mauser, Win 70, etc.
As long as you take the Encore or Contender back down to the frame and attach the appropriate parts and do not make a short barreled rifle you are good to go.
I did talk with an ATF agent here in Phoenix on this subject 2 days ago.

+1 on that ATF sead same thing here in illinois too its ok now

[Four Fingers of Death]

I like my Encore, it has the original 308W Bbl and an aftermarket Virgin Valley 17Ack hornet SS Bull Bbl and matching forend.

Trouble is, in Australia, the price of everything from America is now cheaper than ever, excepttttttttttttt, Thompson Centre Encore barrels.

A standard T/C Bbl is about the same as a T/C Venture rifle or about the same as a Remington 700 SPS/ SS with scope and mounts!

Everything else has gone down, they just get dearer every day. :(

[aaalaska]

Check out the ad's on the ,specialty pistols forum, there are many Encores , Contenders for sale there. Ed's TC's is also a good source. I have Contenders and Encores. I like the old contenders ,but the Encore allows a vast array of calibers that the contender can't handle. I shoot cast thru everything, but of course am always working on loads.The big bores seem the easy ones to find something that shoots well 44 mag, 444,45 colt, 460 S&W, 45/70. All have a wide bullet selection and loads to match.
I haven't had much luck finding loads for cast in the 375 JDJ. but only have one mold and have yet to slug the bore, my bad. the 35 rem likes cast, even the 223 with 55 gr cast is plenty accurate for small game, and I haven't done any work looking for loads.
To start out I found the 44 45 to be a lot of fun and easy to find great loads that shoot well.

[Ed in North Texas]

If you read that letter ( ATF Rul. 2011-4) closely it refers to not making a pistol out af a gun sold ONLY as a rifle. This would be like making a pistol out of a 98 Mauser, Win 70, etc.
As long as you take the Encore or Contender back down to the frame and attach the appropriate parts and do not make a short barreled rifle you are good to go.
I did talk with an ATF agent here in Phoenix on this subject 2 days ago.

Two things:

1. The Contender was sold with a Carbine kit which had both pistol and rifle components. It was not sold "only as a rifle" (this is the one the SCOTUS case was about). Both the Contender and the Encore have been sold as a pistol (boxed at the factory as a pistol and carried by S/N on their books as a pistol). Both have also been sold as a rifle (boxed and carried as a rifle). Previously ATF has held that a Contender/Encore receiver recorded at the factory as a rifle could only ever be a rifle and thus would meet the definition of "sold only as a rifle". Previously ATF said a pistol could not be converted to rifle configuration and back to pistol again. What I've read from ATF was they now allow the pistol frame to be converted to rifle configuration and back to pistol again. There is enough ambiguity in "sold only as a rifle" to drive an 18 wheeler through when it comes to the Contender/Encore system.

2. While it should matter what an ATF Special Agent tells you, ATF has a history of "If it isn't in writing, it isn't." So, for CYA purposes, it would be in your best interest to get it in writing. Any Assistant US Attorney (AUSA) will refuse to consider a case where you have a representative of the responsible Agency supporting your position - if you can prove S/A Doe actually told you that. Have it in writing.

I'm a retired Fed (not ATF) and I'd sure get it in writing. But maybe I'm just paranoid. :???:

[quilbilly]

Having both Contender and Encore barrels, by far my favorite short barrel for CB's (10-14") is the 32-20 and my favorite long barrels for CB's are the 7mm TCU and the 338 winmag (subject to change on a whim and some good groups, of course).

[ss40_70]

dang i fergot about my own thread ...

ed raises a good point .. what the batf says is one thing and what they do is another there is no trusting them .

the .357 maximum is interesting me ... it looks like an excelent choice for cast boolits and a 15 in barrel

[leadman]

Did anyone besides me read the afore mentioned letter? It also states in this letter that it supersedes all previous letters.

It is in writing that it is ok to make your gun (if it was sold as a pistol and rifle) into either, as long as you do not make it a NFA "firearm". The definition of a firearm from the BATF is entirely different that our common usage. The letter also addresses the handgun that can be slipped into a stock with a longer barrel without changing the original gun. Think Galef imported these years ago.
If your gun was made only as a rifle, like a 98 Mauser, Rem 700, etc. than you would have to pay the $200 tax and get approval from BATF to make it a short barreled rifle.

[Got-R-Did]

I think the SBR stamp is much cheaper than $200.
Leadman, that is exactly how I read the new letter, and I have a dozen barrels both in carbine and pistol length with appropriate stocks. Can't imagine a need to put my ten inch 10MM barrel on a rifle stocked receiver, but if the feces ever strikes the oscillator, I doubt that anyone will be coming after me for that violation.
Got-R-Did.

[leadman]

I was working on the motorhome and got to thinking about my last post here and what the BATF has done here in Az.

Even though I am reasonably sure what this letter allows I am going to write an e-mail to the BATF and get it in writing.

I imagine somewhere, sometime somone used a Contender or Encore in a crime but I think this would be very rare.

I may investigate the cost of the SBR stamp as I would like a bolt action pistol and I have a Savage rifle. The stock would be the only part I would have to buy.

[Ed in North Texas]

Did anyone besides me read the afore mentioned letter? It also states in this letter that it supersedes all previous letters.

It is in writing that it is ok to make your gun (if it was sold as a pistol and rifle) into either, as long as you do not make it a NFA "firearm". The definition of a firearm from the BATF is entirely different that our common usage. The letter also addresses the handgun that can be slipped into a stock with a longer barrel without changing the original gun. Think Galef imported these years ago.
If your gun was made only as a rifle, like a 98 Mauser, Rem 700, etc. than you would have to pay the $200 tax and get approval from BATF to make it a short barreled rifle.

Yes, I read the letter. It stated what you report above. Since the Supreme Court Case ruled against ATF on the SBR issue for the TC Contender Carbine kit, anyone who had one of the old Contender Carbine Sets (sold as both pistol and rifle and including pistol and Rifle furniture and barrels - hasn't been sold in years) had a legal weapon in either configuration. ATF had refused to issue a letter incorporating the SCOTUS ruling on the Contender Carbine Kit since the ruling. The new letter finally acknowledges the impact of the SCOTUS case ruling in writing. The letter also is clear that a T/C contender or Encore Pistol (boxed at the factory as a pistol, carried by Serial Number as a pistol, and listed on the initial 4473 as a pistol may now be reconfigured as rifle (barrel 16" and overall 26"), and back to pistol configuration, without violating the NFA

My Encore was shipped from the TC factory, listed by S/N on their books, as a rifle. When it was sold, it was sold as a rifle and was listed on the 4473 as a rifle. I don't see anything in that letter about my Encore now being able to be taken down to the frame and assembled with other parts to become a pistol without paperwork and fees. If that is what you are saying, then we agree and are just saying the same thing different ways.

OTOH, if that last is not what you are saying, then the hangup may be the word "only" ("Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle.")

ATF thrives on ambiguity. Does my Encore, with a frame which was originally assembled as a rifle, carried on T/C's books as a rifle, on the 4473 - you know the rest. Does that Encore meet the definition of "...originally assembled...only as a rifle."? I wouldn't take the chance that it does NOT until I see in writing that ATF holds that any Contender or Encore sold as a rifle does not. But I'm risk averse in my senior citizen status.

Added comment: Leadman: Didn't see your last post until after I had posted this. Asking for an official ruling is the best thing to do. Whether they give one might be another issue though.

[canyon-ghost]

My Contenders are in 22lr, 22 Hornet, 32-20, 7mmTCU, 9mm, 41 mag, and 45/410.

They are capable hunting handguns to 100 meters and beyond.

[leadman]

The second paragraph under "Assembly of Weapons from Parts Kits" is the probably the section that allows for converting a Contender or Encore fame back and forth.
The agent I spoke with stated this has implications on the AR platforms also since AR pistols are now commercially available.
When I asked if the "made only as a rifle" would be speaking to taking a Mauser 98, Rem 700 etc and making a pistol out of it that it would be a NFA regulated firearm. He said yes.
Also the third paragraph in the same section last sentence explains this further.
I am gonig to try to get something in writing to help me ensure I won't end up in jail.
The agent did tell me to keep a copy of the letter with me at the range when I was changing a Contender or Encore configuration. Seems it is not widely distributed.

[Got-R-Did]

Another question arises about all the Contender and Encore frames purchased seperately without stocks or barrels. Would that somehow make them "immune" to this issue of trading barrels/stocks back and forth?
Got-R-Did.

[Ed in North Texas]

The second paragraph under "Assembly of Weapons from Parts Kits" is the probably the section that allows for converting a Contender or Encore fame back and forth.
The agent I spoke with stated this has implications on the AR platforms also since AR pistols are now commercially available.
When I asked if the "made only as a rifle" would be speaking to taking a Mauser 98, Rem 700 etc and making a pistol out of it that it would be a NFA regulated firearm. He said yes.
Also the third paragraph in the same section last sentence explains this further.
I am gonig to try to get something in writing to help me ensure I won't end up in jail.
The agent did tell me to keep a copy of the letter with me at the range when I was changing a Contender or Encore configuration. Seems it is not widely distributed.

The problem is that the Assembly of Weapons from Parts Kits section can be interpreted to be written specifically for the Contender Carbine Kits which used to be sold, and were the subject of the SCOTUS case and ruling. Those Kits contained the frame, pistol grip and pistol barrel and rifle stock and barrel. From those kits you could assemble either pistol or rifle without buying any extra parts. The letter does make it pretty clear that a T/C pistol can be reconfigured as a rifle and back again to a pistol. Unfortunately, it isn't so clear about a T/C rifle.

Hadn't thought about the AR pistols, but they aren't exactly overwhelming in numbers sold. But they could be a more desirable target for enforcement. Evil Semi-Automatic black rifle/pistol which looks like a dreaded "Assault Weapon", which everyone knows is the favorite weapon of criminals. Senator Feinswine told us so, must be true.
//End Sarcasm//

Like you and I both said, what is really needed is an official, formal, Ruling which specifically addresses the issue of T/Cs sold as a rifle. Previously ATF held that once the frame was factory assembled and sold as a rifle, it was always a rifle. I simply don't read the letter as changing that particular position. It might be that they thought that is what they wrote, but it isn't clear. Obviously only ATFE can determine what they meant, and the ambiguity might provide lots of income opportunities for attorneys (though I don't see a major push for enforcement on this issue at any time in the future, all it takes to ruin your day is one S/A who sees an easy opportunity to get his numbers up).

A letter from an ATF Special Agent, ASAC or SAC will definitely keep you out of trouble, but won't apply to people in other jurisdictions. A ruling will officially end the questions once and for all - or until the next ruling comes out. [smilie=b: