Drip-o-matic

[thehouseproduct]

So......just because you can see the pot, doesn't mean it is supervised. Pay close attention. Here is how I spent my Christmas break. :razz::holysheep
http://thehousebmx.com/arfcom/Mess.JPG

[MtJerry]

Oh bummer dude!!!

You had an up-side-down eruption of molten lava!!!

[Le Loup Solitaire]

It is something to wonder about that in 10-30 years of BS hype and advertising that Lee after all the complaining and "Leementing"....not to mention the problems and creation of grotesque stalagmite art forms under their pots....has not been able or interested in developing/improving the valve and/or pouring system that has been used by them. For all their ingenuity, noteworthy innovative work, and good engineering, it seems a little strange that users are still complaining about and reporting runaway leaking and the ongoing search for ideas to stop or prevent the same thing from happening over and over again. I don't see anything innovative about having to have a pair of vise-grips hanging from the valve release. I have an original ten pounder and it has been an ongoing battle to keep the dripping under control. I use it for my single cavs and have to constantly empty and clean the pot, and fiddle with and clean the valve of the pot even though I never have smelted in it. Isn't it about time that Lee &Co. does something to improve the design and help to solve the problem. LLS

[Recluse]

A huge, hearty +1 LLS.

I set the flow rate on my *** Lee to where I wanted it, then safety wired it to the so-called "adjustment screw" so that both moved at the same rate.

Of course this was after I had to replace the sheet metal screws that hold the handle bracket to the pot because they simply fell out during a casting session and I got my own "molten lava-lead" nouveau art deco sculpture. [smilie=b:

The incessant dripping of Lee pots has been an ongoing problem for decades, and as you state, Lee does absolutely zilch about it. The one time I called about it, I was told I was "doing something wrong because it's never been an issue before."

I LIKE a number of Lee products and defend them often. Yet, I'll also call garbage what it is--garbage.

Lee can design, build and produce two of the best presses in existence today--the Classic Cast single stage and the Classic Turret--along with many, many other innovative products. . . but a family of engineers can't engineer a fix to a twenty/thirty-year-old problem of dripping pots???

Maybe if somebody gets badly burned and sue the hogsnot out of them, it might just change their engineering priorities.

:coffee:

[Dan Cash]

I think y'all just part of them thats whinin' and complainin' about good ole LEE. (sarc/)
Dan

[engineer401]

I own a 10 pound Lee bottom pour pot. I had the same problem. I once read on an internet post the way to fix it is to use a screw driver at the top of the valve piece apply pressure and rotate back and forth. The post also recommended a bent paper clip to dislodge debris from the bottom of the spout. I don't know if this will work on your 20 pound unit. It worked wonders for me. Worth a shot. I have become very happy with my pot and may buy another for different lead mixtures. I don't care much for their molds or dies. It depends upon whether you like Fords or Chevys I guess. The lead furnace is one Lee product I am happy with.

[geargnasher]

I like my Lee pots, and if any of you want to get rid of yours, give them to me! (except you, Recluse, we've been over this already!).

The thing is, Lee DID fix the drip-'o-matic design when they "engineered" the Pro 4-20. If you're having problems with it dripping, it's because you put dirty stuff in the pot, or let your sprue/cull oxide skins accumulate on the bottom. Mine, really and truly, hasn't left even a coin on the base in many, many sessions. That doesn't mean I don't keep a cast iron bread pan under it when I'm not right there looking at it, though!

As far as the screws falling out and creating a major ahSCHITT! in the middle of an otherwise relaxing and productive casting session, well, THAT is a sorry design. I appreciate cheap, but when you use reformed awning leg extrusions for the sides and put the screws into U-channels, what were you thinking, Lee??? Thank Gawd for TiG welders, that's how I fixed mine, by taking the pot apart and closing up the channels to make real holes for the screws to grip.

Now, if Lee had used a heavy rod like the 10-pounder in the 20 pounders, it might have worked better and been more tolerant of trash in the alloy, or maybe not since steel is buoyant in molten lead, but if you keep it clean it works very well. I see lots of pictures of pots on this site, and most of the Lee pots have all kinds of rust and crud stuck to the sides, no wonder they drip.

Gear

[gandydancer]

I have had no trouble what so ever in the year I have had my lee 20 pounder.NONE. as a matter of fact I am going to take it out of the box this week an see what it looks like? oh bad joke. I'm still useing my old lyman I've had for 30 years. and when I do go to use the lee pot I will make all the ajustments to it I have seen on here. GD

[Bret4207]

On my Lee I ended up lapping the rod and hanging a 1 lbs weight off the handle, which of course almost bent the handle! It still leaked, I gave up.

[Reload3006]

I am going to fix my dripper with an RCBS ... but alas I am still gagging at the price.

[hornady]

I fixed my Lee 4-20 just before Christmas. Sold it for $30.00. And with a $50.00 mail in rebate from RCBS and the RCBS pot was on sale at Midway. 40 years of casting the last 30 fighting with different versions of Lee pots. I am still kicking myself for waiting so long to get a good bottom pour pot. Like everything Lee they work OK, if you don’t mind the hassles that come with the cheap price.

[jimkim]

It looks like Lee would offer a Classic Pro 4 20. They could copy the valve from the Lyman Mag 20 and charge $145.00 for it. Then everyone would be happy. I mean why use a $57.99 furnace when one with a better valve only cost $322.00 more? :coffee:

[shotman]

I will go with GG on this . About every pic shows a pot that looks like it was never taken care of . When I change alloys I clean all the lead out and sand blast the inside and paint with hi heat grill paint . I dont fill over 3/4 and have a 2in bent 3/8 all thread hanging on back of lift handle

[hornady]

Every time I see these Lee products compared to everything else post, I think about my local Auto repair shop. The guys there use snap on or Mac tools just think how much money they are wasting when they could just go to Wal-Mart.

[largom]

My Lee pot dripped also and I found it a pain to twist the rod with a screwdriver every time it dripped. I added a short extension rod at right angle to the Lee rod which allows me to give a 1/4 or 1/2 twist to the rod after each pour. Only takes a split second to twist and this cured all drips. I posted pictures on this forum but can't find them now.

Larry

[rsrocket1]

I've only cast a couple thousand boolits in 4 sessions with my Lee 4-20 and ran into a couple of drippy periods. Easily solved with the turn of a flat blade screwdriver which sits next to the pot. I should probably make a permanent holder for it on the pot.

I do drop the sprues directly back into the pot which has a layer of sawdust or charcoal on it so that probably doesn't help.

Scraping the bottom of the pot every once in a while with a wooden paint mixing stick helps keep the junk on the bottom from building up. Plus the smoldering wood adds to the flux.

Why did I buy a new Lee pot when there are so many who seem to be willing to give theirs away! Oh, it must be like all those Lee progressive presses, safety scales and molds. :kidding:

[Pigslayer]

I have a LEE 10 ponder & on occassion it drips. When it does I use a flat bladed screwdriver & stick it into the top of the rod & turn it back & forth. Stops the drip every time! For the cost of a LEE pot vs. the cost of a RCBS or Lyman, I'll deak with the drips.

[geargnasher]

I, too keep wondering why I've had to buy almost all of my Lee products, including pots, moulds, progressive presses, dies, etc. NEW instead of collecting them from the haters for the price of shipping. I did have one fellow, an Aussie, offer me a Loadmaster for the shipping, but since the best rate I could find was about 200 bucks, I passed. I all of you hate these things so much, PM me, maybe we can work something out.

I might point out, before this bites you in the posterior, that scraping the bottom of the pot with a wooden stick is a sure way to make a bottom pour pot drip. The stick will slough off ash BELOW the melt, between the lead and the surface of the pot where it is trapped by the very high surface tension and weight of the lead, and this ash will migrate to the spout where it causes drips and dross inclusions in your boolits. If you see little pits in your boolits, it's likely ash.

Scrape the SIDES of your pot with a stick to keep the pot and alloy both clean and the oxides reduced, but scrape the bottom if for some reason it's necessary to do so, with a stainless steel teaspoon or similar. Adding sprues and culls back as you go will carry the oxide skin to the bottom where it can get trapped also, but using a layer of sawdust on top probably helps, especially if you "float" your sprues on top of the sawdust and let them melt in at the top rather than sink to the bottom.

Gear

[sargenv]

I had the same thing happen to me on my much stouter and much more well built Mastercaster... if you think 20 # of lead coming out of the Lee is entertaining, how about chipping 40 pounds of wheel weight lead from the workings of the bottom of a master caster??

[Recluse]

I, too keep wondering why I've had to buy almost all of my Lee products, including pots, moulds, progressive presses, dies, etc. NEW instead of collecting them from the haters for the price of shipping.
Gear

Well, in my case it's probably because a few things like the zip trim and adjustable powder bar, dipper and a few things like that are at the bottom of various lakes and landfills.

There's something very, very VERY satisfying about properly disposing of proper junk.

But keeping the aforementioned Lee products company are a few molds from Lyman, some commercial lube sticks from a NLIB manufacturer, some magazines for 1911s, etc etc.

There may soon be a Ruger Mini-14 keeping that stuff company. . . [smilie=b:

I look at it as "therapy."

:coffee:

[GP100man]

I won`t say I have no drips , but I triple flux while smelting then after each session spray it all down with WD-40 after it cools .

After 8-10 pot fulls I empty the pot & clean it .

I also decreased the likely hood of creating a drip by not adding sprues back to the pot & once it`s up to temp flux & leave it alone .

I flux after my session scraping cleaning as good as ya can with an inch of lead left , even take a wire & dig around the spout & rod ,remove the slag then refill & flux that once it comes to temp then leaving what slag there is for a barrier.

[geargnasher]

Recluse, please do yourself a favor and sell that Mini-14 to someone you don't know and likely will never see, and take the money and buy yourself a nice M1 carbine or even another AR before the Ruger ends up being structure for nesting fish. If it doesn't shoot straight now, it never will.

Gear

[Recluse]

Recluse, please do yourself a favor and sell that Mini-14 to someone you don't know and likely will never see, and take the money and buy yourself a nice M1 carbine or even another AR before the Ruger ends up being structure for nesting fish. If it doesn't shoot straight now, it never will.

Gear

I'm almost just plain stubborn--and stoopid--enough to take it to an armorer I know and tell him "Make this ^$%#& thing shoot MOA at 50 yards.

'Course, he might not ever speak to me again.

He's pretty good. He was the first/original armor for Marcinko's SEAL Team Six, then got recruited by the FBI to be their armorer for HRT, from which he retired. Now he builds guns for SAS, Delta, the SEALs, various SWAT shooters, etc.

I gave him the gun one time and he told me he'd have it shooting great in fifteen minutes. I stepped outside to my pickup and when I came back in, he handed me a custom AR15 and said, "Here's your Mini-14. I modified it into a real .223 shooter."

I shoulda taken that high-dollar AR15 and run like hell.

:coffee:

[Pigslayer]

I had the same thing happen to me on my much stouter and much more well built Mastercaster... if you think 20 # of lead coming out of the Lee is entertaining, how about chipping 40 pounds of wheel weight lead from the workings of the bottom of a master caster??

ooooooooh! I can "feel" that!

[jimkim]

hold on, you're wanting MOA at 50 yard from a Ruger Mini 14? If by some miracle you do manage to do this please post the step by step method you used.

[Recluse]

hold on, you're wanting MOA at 50 yard from a Ruger Mini 14? If by some miracle you do manage to do this please post the step by step method you used.

"Step by step?"

Are you crazy?

*Snort*

It will more likely be "dollar by dollar."

:coffee:

[Cowboy T]

First off, AR's *SUCK* compared to Mini-14's. :kidding:

I had the Drip-O-Matic happen to me last week, too. The pot is a Pro 4-20. Turned out it was because the piece of metal that holds the wide-head screw to the pot's plunger finally bent away over many castings. A pair of pliers to squeeze 'em back together fixed the problem.

For the money, I'm still as happy with my Pro 4-20 as Deanna Troi from Star Trek would be at the Godiva Chocolate Factory.

[jimkim]

"Step by step?"

Are you crazy?

*Snort*

It will more likely be "dollar by dollar."

:coffee:

:holysheep lol My buddy has one. It is a great little rifle. I just won't be winning any competitions with it. :2 drunk buddies:

Mini 14's don't rule. M-14's do. Now that's a rifle.

[Bret4207]

It's not all Lee stuff that I find frustrating, just that pot. In 10 years or so of use my current pot has never leaked a single drop, holds about 40 lbs and cost me under $20.00. I have 3 ladles I can use with it for different capacity moulds. It doesn't rust and has a good heavy handle so I can move it and use the 1100 watt hot plate it sits on for something else. It's perfect!

[Bret4207]

Every time I see these Lee products compared to everything else post, I think about my local Auto repair shop. The guys there use snap on or Mac tools just think how much money they are wasting when they could just go to Wal-Mart.

They probably could get by just fine with much of the Walmart tools for the non- specialty stuff. But Wally World isn't a status symbol either now, is it?! When I see a mechanic with a 10 foot long Snap On tool chest filled with the pretty toys I wonder how in the world our predecessors got by wrenching on cars and trucks for the first 75 years without them? There are lots of good tools that don't come in the pretty truck, ala carte, with the Rolls Royce price tag and status to go with them. I also understand why that guy is still living in his parents basement or a trailer and driving a '84 F150!

[Reload3006]

you obviously dont twist a wrench for a living Bret. you can wipe your butt with a corn cob to it works but i much prefer charmin. it works better and is much nicer.

[geargnasher]

As a professional technician myself, I gotta go with Reload3006 here, but with a few reservations.

First, you don't always need the BEST tool, but the CORRECT tool. This is especially true at home. The correct tool is often not available in cheap brands.

At work, many of my wrenches are Kobalt and Husky. Husky tools are made by Mac/Stanlely, and are pretty decent. The ones I break get warranted, taken home, and replaced at work with Snap-On or Matco at a full five times the price.

For things like all the specialty sockets, torx, torx+, allen, wobble, impact wobble, extra deep, Oxygen sensor, crowfoot, line-wrench crowfoot, I break so many of the best ones money can buy that consumer-grade tools are absolutely useless. A Chinese 20-oz ball-peen hammer is useable, but a Chinese prybar will break your arm. A Harbor Freight 1/2" impact wrench might be handy at home, but it takes a $400 Ingersoll Rand impact to handle daily use on wheels and suspenstion parts. Snap ring pliers? Only the best will do. There is no substitute for a quality, calibrated torque wrench. Actually four torque wrenches to cover the entire range, that's two grand right there.

I have about $35,000 worth of pro-grade hand and pneumatic tools in a $14,000 box. That's only about half the tools I have at work, the cheapos I don't keep track of the cost. I wore out three Craftsman tool boxes before finally going to the dark side and buying one that would hold up to being loaded down with tools and having the drawers opened and shut all day, 45-50 hrs a week for years. Actually, it was pain in my hands that made me spend the money. Jerking open binding, sticking el-cheapo drawer slides makes the job unbearable after a while.

The tools don't ALL have to be overpriced commercial brand, but many of them do. Most of us have the best because much of the time the best is barely enough to get us through the day. If you don't believe that, ask a Snap-On guy to show you the box of broken tools he's warranted for that week.

Now as to those primadonna boneheads who have the entire Snap-On apartment complex in their stalls to the tune of about a quarter million dollars and still can't fix a ham sandwich, we all know them and make more fun of them than a guy on the street will ever know! Tools DON'T make the tech, the tech makes the tools.

Maybe that's why I don't mind cheap Lee casting pots. I've spent my life coaxing machines to function, often (in the case of certain particular domestic automotive manufacturers) my job depends on finding ways to make cheap, ill-designed junk function as quickly and inexpensively as possible, so I have no problem assessing the quality of and working within the physical limits of second-rate machines.

Gear

[Reload3006]

It doesn't have to say snap on for me to use it. in fact I am a machinist/tool n die maker so I dont really need snap on or Mac. however there are instances where I do and so I have a variety of tools Mostly Craftsman they are good enough for me but for someone twisting a wrench all day they wouldnt be. also because I am a machinist I have had to try to fix what the cheap tec tried to do with Buffalo pieces of Chinese ****. Its usually not pretty. there is an old adage you get what you pay for. It is true. I have seen times that i was ready to just get the drill out but though well let me try my snap on and see if it works and more than half the time my snap on wrench took the bolt out when what ever someone else was using had it pretty buggered up. So in terms of Casting Reloading equipment. I equate Lee to Buffalo most of the time it will get you there. But a lot of times it will get you into trouble because you were penny wise and pound foolish. I ask is it cheaper to buy 1 mac or snapon wrench or to buy a Buffalo find out its **** then buy the snap on?

[mold maker]

At 70, I can remember when Craftsman was the top of the line. I still have a pretty full box of them, but haven't used them to their potential in many years. Now if I find the need for a new tool, the price will often determine the purchase.
As far as dripping pots, Lyman and RCBS have had the same problem and it is almost always caused by the same fault. Dirt... If ya don't keep what goes in clean, you'll get drips or plug-ups. None of them will pour trash, and ya don't want it in your boolits anyway.
I know I have more time than most of you, but I don't waste it trying to pour with less than really clean melt.
The only drips I have had with any pot are my fault, not the pot.
BTW,,,,, I have 3 LEE pots and one each Lyman, RCBS, and Wang (sp).

[shdwlkr]

Well I have 3 lee pots and one bottom pour plugged so I made it my ladle pour pot, yes I know what is wrong with it something is stuck in the spout.
I have a ladle pour 20 pound as that is the direction I have gone in casting.
I have watched some of the really expensive bottom pour pots work and I can only say look how much more lead I can buy with my Lee pot.
I have tools that are home owner quality and some that are much better depends on the intended use. if I go back to having tractors the real farm grade then I will be buying some really costly tools because they work for the that kind of use.
When spending my money I look at the item and think how it will be used and to what I expect out of it.
Many don't like Lee products but you know I have found that many times they work just fine and sometimes you have to have a brain and want to adjust it to suit you.
I look at this way buy what you want and feel you need and if you have a 20 pound Lee pot that you just can't stand and are willing to mail it to me just to get it off your hands please do as I can find a home for it most likely before it even hits my mail box.
Yes I have moved up from the 10 pound pots as they just seem to run out of lead to fast anymore.

[FirstBrit]

In my experience the main culprit for dripping on any bottom pour pot results from fluxing the melt in the pot. The fluxing causes the crude and metal oxides to coagulate some of it rises to the top of the melt and can be simply scooped off. The rest sticks to the walls and bottom of the pot and even the around the seat of the pour hole. This is difficult to remove without doing a complete strip-down and cleaning operation. IMHO the best way to solve this is to invest in two Lee pots. use one as a Pre-Melt pot where you do any fluxing and re-melt the sprues and rejects from your castings. The other pot is kept spcifically just for bottom pour casting. Fluxing is absolutely taboo. If you find crude building up on the surface just simply scoop it off and add it back to the pre-melt pot. When the casting pot gets low on lead, simply flux the pre-melt pot and toss out any dross and just ladle clean metal over into the casting pot. That way you only have clean metal in the casting pot and any build up around the seat of the pour hole will be very slow. Another tip, before you start a casting session try flushing the pour hole generously with molten lead. If necessary try freeing up the pour hole with a steel nail or rigid paper clip. If the pour hole is completely free of debris the stream of melt coming out of the pour hole - even when throttled down - should be very very steady and smooth. By that I mean no vortexing and the stream of melt coming out of the pot should be absolutely perpendicular and not come out at an angle. This flushing issue is no big deal if you have a pre-melt pot with same alloy and temperature on hand. Since you can simply top up without any waiting You may need to let something like 4-5 lbs. of molten lead flow through the pour hole to get it really free especially if you don't use your pot that regularly.

That way you should have a drip-free enjoyable casting session. With two lee pots at approx. 60$ each ist still cheaper than either a single Lyman or RCBS melting pot.

Best regards,

Adrian - Germany.

[dbarnhart]

I'm not a Snap-On bigot but I still remember the day I used my first Snap-On tool. It was one of those ratcheting screwdrivers. There was a world of difference between the Snap-On phillips bit and the Craftsman screwdrivers I had been using all my life.

My tool chest contains a mix of brands (Most of my metric tools are Stahlwille) but there are certain tools (like the 1/4-inch drive universal sockets) that nobody beats Snap-On.

[Bret4207]

you obviously dont twist a wrench for a living Bret. you can wipe your butt with a corn cob to it works but i much prefer charmin. it works better and is much nicer.

Sorry bud, been twisting wrenches on and off for a living or part time for 30 years.

[Bret4207]

As a professional technician myself, I gotta go with Reload3006 here, but with a few reservations.

First, you don't always need the BEST tool, but the CORRECT tool. This is especially true at home. The correct tool is often not available in cheap brands.

At work, many of my wrenches are Kobalt and Husky. Husky tools are made by Mac/Stanlely, and are pretty decent. The ones I break get warranted, taken home, and replaced at work with Snap-On or Matco at a full five times the price.

For things like all the specialty sockets, torx, torx+, allen, wobble, impact wobble, extra deep, Oxygen sensor, crowfoot, line-wrench crowfoot, I break so many of the best ones money can buy that consumer-grade tools are absolutely useless. A Chinese 20-oz ball-peen hammer is useable, but a Chinese prybar will break your arm. A Harbor Freight 1/2" impact wrench might be handy at home, but it takes a $400 Ingersoll Rand impact to handle daily use on wheels and suspenstion parts. Snap ring pliers? Only the best will do. There is no substitute for a quality, calibrated torque wrench. Actually four torque wrenches to cover the entire range, that's two grand right there.

I have about $35,000 worth of pro-grade hand and pneumatic tools in a $14,000 box. That's only about half the tools I have at work, the cheapos I don't keep track of the cost. I wore out three Craftsman tool boxes before finally going to the dark side and buying one that would hold up to being loaded down with tools and having the drawers opened and shut all day, 45-50 hrs a week for years. Actually, it was pain in my hands that made me spend the money. Jerking open binding, sticking el-cheapo drawer slides makes the job unbearable after a while.

The tools don't ALL have to be overpriced commercial brand, but many of them do. Most of us have the best because much of the time the best is barely enough to get us through the day. If you don't believe that, ask a Snap-On guy to show you the box of broken tools he's warranted for that week.

Now as to those primadonna boneheads who have the entire Snap-On apartment complex in their stalls to the tune of about a quarter million dollars and still can't fix a ham sandwich, we all know them and make more fun of them than a guy on the street will ever know! Tools DON'T make the tech, the tech makes the tools.

Maybe that's why I don't mind cheap Lee casting pots. I've spent my life coaxing machines to function, often (in the case of certain particular domestic automotive manufacturers) my job depends on finding ways to make cheap, ill-designed junk function as quickly and inexpensively as possible, so I have no problem assessing the quality of and working within the physical limits of second-rate machines.

Gear

There's nothing wrong with Snap on or Mac or Blue Point or whoever else is making the nice stuff, well except for the Snap on ratchets being junk and their screw drivers being abominations from the lower reaches of Phyzztickignhed-stan. I love high quality tools and there is a need for good stuff, and certainly a need with the specialty tools. But as was mentioned, tools don't make the man. The man makes the tool. The original idea was comparing Lee products to everything else and how Lee stuff was like Walmart garbage tools. That's bogus. I HATE Lee BP pots, no apology about it, I HATE them. But too many people use them for me to say they are junk. They just don't work for ME. Maybe I jinx them, I dunno. Lee makes lots of other stuff that is just as good as RCBS or Lyman or Dillon. It just doesn't come in a Green or Orange or Blue box with the inherent status of those vaunted colors. Just as a lot of mechanics (I just can't call you guys "techs", the tech takes your urine at the hospital, the tech is the guy in Pakistan not helping you with your service related problem!) display that zillion dollar Snap On tool chest like Anna Nicholes dead hubby displayed his arm candy, a lot of guys display that Dillion or Star or RCBS for the same reasons- status. Same thing with cars, trucks, boats and guns. It's just the way some folks are, not all- some.

I'm fortunate enough to have a lot of excellent tools from the 40's and 50's and I was the beneficiary of a lot of KD tools from an old line Chevy/GM dealer, a nice mess of Starrett and B+S instruments and I have a few high dollar specialty tools of recent manufacture. I love nice stuff, I just don't get all wrapped up in thinking it makes me any better than the other schlubs around me. I'm not saying you do either Gear, just explaining my position.

[Sonnypie]

... some folks will break and anvil with a glass hammer. [smilie=1:

[Doble Troble]

I even like the Lee Zip Trim...although it took about ten cases to figure-out how it works.

[Cowboy T]

When it came to a scale, I went with an Ohaus-made unit, specifically the RCBS 10-10. Would a Lee scale have done the job? Not for me, because I knew I was going to cast boolits, and the Lee scale tops out at 105 gr. My shotgun slugs weigh...umm...considerably more than that. :-)

I happen to know a master mechanic, and he uses almost entierly Snap-On tools because he's a professional mechanic of 29 years experience. He told me, "it's not that we WANT to spend all that money. We don't! It's that we HAVE to, in order to do our jobs." Whereas, not being a professional mechanic, Craftsman works great for what I do, and that's typical "Harry Homeowner" tasks around the house.

Perhaps if I were a professional caster and making money at it, like Mike Symbala at Mastercast Bullet Co. does, I would say no to the Lee gear and get something else (Magma, etc.). However, I'm a hobbyist home caster. I'm not Magma's target market. For me, Lee's pot does the job and is certainly "good enough", and that's why I keep using it.

[1bluehorse]

:kidding:I'm enjoying all the "Lee love" going on and I'm feelin it...[smilie=w: have a classic turret that I do enjoy. Heck, I even bought a couple used Loadmasters in the past that I was able to get to work really well, (with the help of many others who went down that road ahead of me) (and a pro 1000 with Cowboy T's help. Thanks CT) good enough in fact to sell to people I actually know and like. Of course after selling them I unboxed my old Ammomasters cause I figured I could fix anything at that point. Thats actually unfair, both my AM's work very well indeed, just a little "busy" with very long throws and a powder drop actuator from hell.:mrgreen: BUT, back to the Lee Pro 20, so you guys are telling me all the dripping and unstable heating issues (6 to 7 then back to 6 1/2, up to 8, back to 6) and the strange little "streams" of lead it produces, you know the ones, you turn it down to where it "barely" leaks, those are all my fault for melting "dirty" lead. :? Where can I get some of the clean Lead? I need to find some cause' I just ordered a new RCBS Pro melt and I don't want to mess it up with "dirty" lead..I'm just havin a little fun, (however all of the above is true) but face it, the Pro 4-20 sucks...er' drips..

[Tazman1602]

You will only gag at the price until you run the first pot through it '06.

I got an RCBS ProMelt for Bday last year -- first one was defective right out of the box but RCBS sent me a new one and let me keep all the extra parts I had.

On my Lee Pro 20 I lapped, bought a cheapie pair of vice grips to hang on the shut off valve, etc and it still left me with piles of slag sometimes.

My Lee is now a smelter pot but BOY do I LOVE that Pro-Melt. Consistent temps, no leaks, and just a joy to work with in general.

FWIW on all my .458 stuff or if I am casting for accuracy I still fire up the old Lyman mini mag and ladle cast which I did for 20 years before trying bottom pour.....

Lee denied to me they ever had any reported issues with the drip o matic too................all ya' haveta' do is read this board a bit to find out that just ain't so.........

Art



I am going to fix my dripper with an RCBS ... but alas I am still gagging at the price.

[MikeS]

Scrape the SIDES of your pot with a stick to keep the pot and alloy both clean and the oxides reduced, but scrape the bottom if for some reason it's necessary to do so, with a stainless steel teaspoon or similar. Adding sprues and culls back as you go will carry the oxide skin to the bottom where it can get trapped also, but using a layer of sawdust on top probably helps, especially if you "float" your sprues on top of the sawdust and let them melt in at the top rather than sink to the bottom.

Gear

I was just getting ready to post that I put my sprues back in the pot with no problem by letting them sit on top of the CFF/pet bedding mix I have sitting on top of the pot, but you beat me to it! I have a little stainless steel ladle like thing that has holes in it (it's for some kind of Japanese cooking) that I use to scrape the bottom & sides of my 4-20, and I never have problems with it leaking. I also won't let it sit unattended, just in case. As I just said in another post, the pot I really want to get is Magma's Cast Master 90lb pot!

I think another thing that needs to either be realized, or at least mentioned, is that talking about Hung Cho Ting Tool Company wrenches compared to Snap-On wrenches is an Apples-Oranges comparison. Yes, they're both wrenches, but one is targeted (and probably sold at Target too!) at the occasional tool user, or 'hobby' tool users, but Snap-On tools are designed for Pro use, pure & simple. Years ago Craftsman Tools were either equals or darn near to Snap-On tools, yet they were considerably cheaper. Why? It's simple, when you bought a Craftsman tool, either you paid for it up front, OR you paid for it on time (Sears credit card) with interest added. One of Snap-On's big things is that they will finance anyone, as long as they have a job, and are along that driver's route. And (At least years ago, I don't know if it's still) it's interest free. Well, that interest has to be made up somewhere, as well as taking into consideration theft, or mechanics that leave a job, take the tools, Snap-On guy never sees them again. I'm not saying that Snap-On tools aren't good tools, they certainly are, but some of their price is due to other considerations, other than the actual tool.

Years ago, when I was 18 and went to work for my family's business (we manufactured leather working machinery) we supplied the mechanics with tools, and they were the cheapest tools money can buy. I went to my father, and complained that they were junk, and that the mechanics should be using better tools. He agreed completely with me, and said that any of the mechanics that wanted to use better tools were free to buy those tools themselves. At the time I didn't understand it, but I had a small (very small total cost was $700.00) tool set I had bought myself, don't recall the brand name, but they were on a par with Snap-On,and so I brought them in and left them out for the mechanics to use, within a month they were all gone, every last one! My father then replaced them all for me, and told me they STAY home. That taught me a lesson about tools, and why mechanics are usually required to have their own tools!

And another thing to consider, anyone that's casting with a Lee pot, or a Lyman pot, or an RCBS pot, is probably casting boolits as a hobby, and not professionally, so that makes them all hobby tools. If somebody IS casting by hand for a living, they're probably using one of Magma's larger pots, or something similar, as a 20lb pot empties too quickly to be economically viable for a commercial operation. For the amount of use I give my pot, the Lee is good enough until I can scrape together the money to buy the pot I want, the Magma 90lb pot. Do I have a NEED for the Magma pot, absolutely not, but I want it, and that's my justification, just as that's all the reason anyone needs for buying either a Lyman or RCBS pot.

[dromia]

Much is made of dirty alloy being the cause of drippy pots and I certainly wouldn't disagree with that.

When I had Lee pots and they continued to leak despite trying every fix know to man, except burying them in damp peat for 10 years, I accepted that I may not be getting my alloy clean enough. However when I got my Pro Melt it didn't leak, and never has, with my alloy. So what I construe from that is that the Pro Melt handles dirty alloy better than the Lee, so in my book another plus feature for the RCBS.

[jimkim]

I'm going to admit that the melting pot that cost five times as much as my little pot handles dirty lead better, it is also nicer looking to some. That isn't a real shock to me or anyone else. What I don't get is what is your point? Your furnace COSTS FIVE TIMES AS MUCH AS MINE.
They both do the exact same job. Melt lead and fill moulds. I'm not trying to be an a$$, but I sincerely don't get the point. The RCBS furnace COSTS FIVE TIMES as much as mine. It should NEVER leak. Unfortunately that's not always the case though. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=51996

I really need to break down and christen my Lyman XX. I mean do something other than melt lead in it to see if it works. I guess I'll try out that valve tonight.

Just wondering, has anyone ever bought the RCBS valve assembly and adapted it to the Lee? What would that cost?

[Reload3006]

I'm going to admit that the melting pot that cost five times as much as my little pot handles dirty lead better, it is also nicer looking to some. That isn't a real shock to me or anyone else. What I don't get is what is your point? Your furnace COSTS FIVE TIMES AS MUCH AS MINE.
They both do the exact same job. Melt lead and fill moulds. I'm not trying to be an a$$, but I sincerely don't get the point. The RCBS furnace COSTS FIVE TIMES as much as mine. It should NEVER leak. Unfortunately that's not always the case though. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=51996

I really need to break down and christen my Lyman XX. I mean do something other than melt lead in it to see if it works. I guess I'll try out that valve tonight.

Just wondering, has anyone ever bought the RCBS valve assembly and adapted it to the Lee? What would that cost?
I guess the point is having a tool work the way its supposed to. Lee will get you there you are correct. Its back to that ole Chinese made tool versus snap-on usually the cheep tool will get you there some times it gets you into trouble. The Snap-on will get the job done each and every time. If you don't mind drippy keep buying Lee pots if your happy with them that's all that counts. if your not then do something else. No right answer or wrong answer. I don't mind spending 5 times as much for something that will last me a life time of trouble free service. Much rather pay that than 50 dollars for something that kind of works. Why would you buy a Cadillac when a Kia will get you there? Because the Cadillac will get you there more comfortably.

[dromia]

Yes the Lee will melt lead just the same as the RCBS. However I didn't enjoy using the Lee stuff with all its foibles. I enjoy using the RCBS, I enjoy using fine, well made and well designed tools, it trouble free and I trust it.

To me this whole boolit casting, hand loading, shooting thing is about me having fun and enjoyment. What price that?

[jimkim]

I also enjoy using fine well made, well designed tools. That includes my Lee pot. It is well made, it is well designed, and it just flat works. It is even fun to use. What price is that? For me it's $322.00 less. For you it just cost, WAY more. I agree the more expensive pot is nicer, but it ought to be, for the additional $322.00. This kinda reminds me of the people who insist on comparing the RCBS RC to the Lee Reloader press.

I think I should just let this go, and agree to not even disagree. I really don't mean to be offensive. I am picking a bit, and I don't want it to be taken as me being mean and disrespectful. I do admire most of you, and I take your advice to heart and appreciate your guidance. I apologize if I have in any way deeply offended any of you. cbrick, I hope you know most of that was in jest. Dromia, at some point I hope to share a dram with you. It will need to be here however. I'm not payin' the duty on what I'm wantin' to share.

[Poygan]

I don't think I cast as much as some of you do, perhaps 1 - 2 times a month on average. I started casting in 1964 using a Lyman iron pot and a dipper. My reloader was a Lyman Ammo Maker kit with a single cavity mold. These were my very poor days.
It wasn't until the 1990s that I finally bought a RCBS LAM II. About the same time I bought a Lee bottom pour melter. Later got the Lee magnum melter to melt down wws.
The Lee does drip a bit but my procedure is to attach a needle nose vice grips to the rod. Occasionally I have to twist the rod a bit but not so much to be annoying. I flux with a paint stir stick. Works for me. Now, my idea of speed casting is to use a double cavity mold (sorry Bruce B.). I would estimate I load around 1500 rounds per year so my production is relatively low. So, for my purposes, the Lees fill the bill quite well.
My point is this:
1. What do you need/want?
2. What can you afford?

[Jammer Six]

There's three more points to consider.

I'm a carpenter by trade, a general contractor by profession. Before I retired, I trained many, many apprentices. People who think there's no such thing as a stupid question have never trained an apprentice. Some of my old apprentices are journeyman. A few of them are Journeymen, and one or two of them are even starting to be pretty good Carpenters. One of them stomp-down amazes me. He's going to be better than I ever was.

Point one is that some of the journeymen don't seem capable of switching equipment. They do what they do, the way they've always done it, and that's that. Which is usually fine, unless they have to switch equipment, for whatever reason. Then there's trouble, which usually just amounts to grumbling. So the gear you learned on may very well seem to be the only reasonable gear there is, to you.

Point two is that if you've never used a cabinet saw, you probably don't realize that that thing you've been using is junk, and that that sound it makes that sounds like rocks being tortured into gravel isn't normal. And no, you shouldn't have to stop half way through the cut to wait for the blade to cool off. Note that this point is not restricted to new carpenters; I've had people who I know have been in the trade for more than ten years try to tell me that "this is how it's supposed to be."

No. It's not.

Point three is that it's much, much easier to train a new apprentice on a full-dress cabinet saw than on some DeWalt nightmare from Homeless Despot. Five horses instead of 3/4, solid cast iron, no vibration, a nice, smooth cut, 240 volts and wood gets cut instead of mangled.

And the apprentice can concentrate on what I'm teaching him, rather than holding the duct tape tight enough to keep the coat hanger from flying off. If the apprentice can concentrate on the skill rather than compensating for the shortcomings of the equipment, it's much easier for him or her to learn.

So for everyone, but for a new caster in particular, after all that experience, I would suggest the best equipment one can afford. It will cut the learning curve down, in my experience.

[Blanket]

my Lee pot never has dripped.......when cold

[STP22]

I tried to use Bismuth/Tin alloys (heavy on the Bismuth part) with the Lee 10lb pot. It was a nightmare. Even when it merely dripped, the splash/splatter easily reached 3 foot or more past the furnace.

BTDT....:roll:

Regards,

Scott

[7of7]

I have a Lee 20 lb pot... and I was trying to get it to stop dripping. I tried polishing everything.. didn't work.. I finally messed up the spout on the bottom, so I ended up ordering a new one, and replaced it.. and the valve rod. Now, it doesn't drip.... much... I also quit scraping the bottom with the stick.. I use a scraper that kind of is a cross between a screwdriver and a chisle.. I flux it with saw chips, and leave the ash on top...
I also had a piece of 2" diameter brass, about a half inch long.. and put it on as a weight.. seems to work fine..
It works..

[Flinchrock]

It is something to wonder about that in 10-30 years of BS hype and advertising that Lee after all the complaining and "Leementing"....not to mention the problems and creation of grotesque stalagmite art forms under their pots....has not been able or interested in developing/improving the valve and/or pouring system that has been used by them. For all their ingenuity, noteworthy innovative work, and good engineering, it seems a little strange that users are still complaining about and reporting runaway leaking and the ongoing search for ideas to stop or prevent the same thing from happening over and over again. I don't see anything innovative about having to have a pair of vise-grips hanging from the valve release. I have an original ten pounder and it has been an ongoing battle to keep the dripping under control. I use it for my single cavs and have to constantly empty and clean the pot, and fiddle with and clean the valve of the pot even though I never have smelted in it. Isn't it about time that Lee &Co. does something to improve the design and help to solve the problem. LLS

Don't ya just love having to re-engineer and re-design and re-finish a tool that ought to work right??

I ain't a Lee lover,,that's for durn sure, I have some lee stuff,but almost everything I have has taken some tinkering to get it to work smoothly.

I just figger that from lee,,,your buying unfinished tools and you're supposed to finish them yourself,,that's why they are cheap!

Only thing from lee that seems to work right has been their FCD,,and I ain't entirely sure about that yet (got one at a yard sale, haven't used it much yet).

[Flinchrock]

Well, in my case it's probably because a few things like the zip trim and adjustable powder bar, dipper and a few things like that are at the bottom of various lakes and landfills.

There's something very, very VERY satisfying about properly disposing of proper junk.

But keeping the aforementioned Lee products company are a few molds from Lyman, some commercial lube sticks from a NLIB manufacturer, some magazines for 1911s, etc etc.

There may soon be a Ruger Mini-14 keeping that stuff company. . . [smilie=b:

I look at it as "therapy."

:coffee:

Yeah,,,and once you get the pieces re-built, re-finished and re- engineered and working, more or less, working right,,,ya might as well use 'em...