Need shotgun shells

[44man]

Since we don't have a shotgun section, maybe some of you know where I can buy new WW, AA cases for a .410, 3".

[JSH]

I don't know about the 410's but the 20 and 12 gauge hulls are not what the old AA's used to be. Pardon my ignorance on the tech terms of shotguns stuff as I am just starting into this a bit. All of the old trap shooters I know said, oh WW AA's no doubt is the go to hull. Maybe 10 years or so back but not now. I found all of this out after I had already bought about a case of 20 guage, wondered why it was so cheap.....................
Remington STS is the good one now I believe.
Jeff

[Slowpoke]

According to the Skeet shooters the AA .410HS hulls are the only one to use now days and combined with WC820 you have the very best in hull life and low cost.

If some of you guys are wondering where all the 820 is going and why the price is going up you can blame it on the skeet shooters, I have talked to more than one that said they just bought over a hundred pounds.

44man if you find the mother load of 3 inch AA HS hulls you will be doing something.

They tell me the 2 1/2 inchers are going for around a .25 ea on E-Bay

good luck

[Slowpoke]

Oh yea the only place to buy new WW .410 hulls is when you buy a $14 box of shells.

good luck

[lar45]

How do the BPI hulls compare?
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=992132
$16 per hundred and come primed.

[Scrounger]

I long ago came to the conclusion that the 12 gauge was the only one it made any sense to fool with. Buying ammo, 12 gauge is always cheaper than the others. Reloading, you can download the 12 to match the ballistics of any of the smaller gauges. American rifleman has run 2 or 3 articles in the last 10 years or so on 28 gauge loads (3/4 ounce) in 12 gauge hulls. I ued those loads at skeet for several years and I even went so far as to build up a wad column and shoot 1/2 ounce loads. Loads worked fine but I'm not good enough to shoot skeet with a .410...even in a 12 gauge hull. I think the Olympic shooters went to a 7/8 ounce load with no drop in scores and there was talk of reducing it even more. I haven't followed that lately.

[Scrounger]

Here's more .410 cases than you could ever use. Ever hear of EBAY, the anti-gun demon marketplace? http://sporting-goods.search.ebay.com/410_Shells-Hulls_W0QQcatrefZC12QQfclZ3QQfromZR2QQfsooZ1QQfsop Z1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZ71121QQsatitleZQ2e410

[9.3X62AL]

Make sure that the hull maker has established load data for whatever hull you decide to get. The primary advantage to the WW/AA and Rem Field 410 hulls is the tested data available. Some wad columns don't get along with some hull configurations--both internal taper (or lack thereof) and column length. Inexpensive shotshell reloading--or component gathering--is a thing of the past.

[MT Gianni]

I was with you Scrounger until I got a Savage 24 in 20 ga. A whole lot lighter andhandier than the 12's. Gianni

[44man]

Thanks guys. I did buy hulls and wads from BPI and they load great, but like you say, load data is slim even from BPI. One powder and one shot weight! All they show is H110 and 1/2 oz.

[DLCTEX]

My brother has 55 gal. drums full of 12 ga. AA hulls, said he doesn't have time to reload anymore, doesn't even pick them up anymore.
Does any one know if a box of Ely 12 ga. ammo, probably 25 or more years old, seal is unbroken, does it have any collector value? DALE

[Scrounger]

I was with you Scrounger until I got a Savage 24 in 20 ga. A whole lot lighter andhandier than the 12's. Gianni

They make what people think they want. They could make that in 12 gauge just as light or even lighter (12 gauge operates at lower pressure than 20, .410 is highest of all). People are conditioned to think 20s are smaller.

[charlie / sw mo]

gents this talk about 410 hulls brings to mind a question. last week i bought a harrington richardson 410 with a single patent date of 1900 on it it also has 410-44cal on the barrel. what im wondering is what 44 were they talking about. i havent gotten around to giving it a close check yet---first time iv run across a 410-44 cal (didnt think i could go wrong for 40 bucks tho)

charlie in sw mo

[357maximum]

I long ago came to the conclusion that the 12 gauge was the only one it made any sense to fool with. Buying ammo, 12 gauge is always cheaper than the others. Reloading, you can download the 12 to match the ballistics of any of the smaller gauges. American rifleman has run 2 or 3 articles in the last 10 years or so on 28 gauge loads (3/4 ounce) in 12 gauge hulls. I ued those loads at skeet for several years and I even went so far as to build up a wad column and shoot 1/2 ounce loads. Loads worked fine but I'm not good enough to shoot skeet with a .410...even in a 12 gauge hull. I think the Olympic shooters went to a 7/8 ounce load with no drop in scores and there was talk of reducing it even more. I haven't followed that lately.



The man speaketh the truth.... I still keep a few 410's around for playing with and for runnin the beagles though:mrgreen: I will sell em all when my almost unlimited supply of components ceases to exist..what they charge for 410 shells/hulls/components is nothing short of rape....and i cannot remember the lasdt time I fired a birdshot load through a 20gauge.....that gauge was meant for slugs in my opinion...

[lar45]

I bought some of the BPI hulls last year from Midway and got a couple of different wads to try. I've just been SWAGing it for loads. I don't do anything more than plinking though. I got some of the 2.5" magtech brass cases, but the plastic ones are cheaper. I saw a reference someplace to an old 3/4 oz 410 factory load.

For the 44 shotgun, I think it was a much shorter case. You should check the chamber dimensions carefully before shooting anything.
Sounds like you got a great deal on it. I keep seeing some Steven's 44's come up on Gunbroker, but I really don't want to pay $300+
I bought a Stoeger 410 single shot a year or two ago. It's a nice looking little gun with vent rib. It breaks down by pulling the front of the trigger gaurd to the rear. It was about $115 new. Lots of fun and the kids can shoot it also. Mine will close on 444 Marlin cases, and have loaded some shot loads with card wads. I have a Mossberg Bolt action 410 also but it will not close on the 444 cases.

[44man]

Mine is just for fun shooting and maybe some crow hunting. I bought it from a fellow in town for $75. It is a New England Firearms Pardner. Sweet little thing and it looks almost unfired, in fact I don't think it ever was.
I hate to buy loaded shells because of the price and it is dirt cheap to load. The price of components from BPI directly are not too bad. I might go with felt and card wads to get more leeway for loads.
I bet it would be fun to shoot cast boolits with brass cases. Does anyone have any favorite boolits and loads for a light slug load? Tin can shooting stuff!

[Slowpoke]

I have a Lyman third edition that shows quite a few 3/4 oz .410 loads.

Lyman as we speak is releasing their 5th edition shotshell book.

Alot of info on the old .410 here

fourten shotgun resource site (.410 gauge)

[Slowpoke]

[QUOTE=Slowpoke;Alot of info on the old .410 here

fourten shotgun resource site (.410 gauge)[/QUOTE]

http://rajeev.freeuk.com/4-10/index.html

[woody1]

Mine is just for fun shooting and maybe some crow hunting. I bought it from a fellow in town for $75. It is a New England Firearms Pardner. Sweet little thing and it looks almost unfired, in fact I don't think it ever was.
I hate to buy loaded shells because of the price and it is dirt cheap to load. The price of components from BPI directly are not too bad. I might go with felt and card wads to get more leeway for loads.
I bet it would be fun to shoot cast boolits with brass cases. Does anyone have any favorite boolits and loads for a light slug load? Tin can shooting stuff!

Cheapest reloading I've found for 410 is using 444 brass, large pistol primers and homemade wads. Both my 410's will chamber the 444's, some won't but you can thin the rims pretty easy and it won't take much. I've shot balls from 000 buck, .378 RB and slugs made from .380 and 9mm brass. I think a .390-.395 RB mould or whatever the max that will go thru the choke would be the best. Regards, Woody

[Scrounger]

Woody1, how about a .375 cast bullet of 250 grains or so in a .410 plastic wad?

[floodgate]

charlie in SW MO:

"gents this talk about 410 hulls brings to mind a question. last week i bought a harrington richardson 410 with a single patent date of 1900 on it it also has 410-44cal on the barrel. what im wondering is what 44 were they talking about. i havent gotten around to giving it a close check yet---first time iv run across a 410-44 cal (didnt think i could go wrong for 40 bucks tho)"

I suspect that it was for the .44-40 extended case shot loads for the Marble "Game Getter", and known as the ".44 Game Getter". Check the bore diameter; it MIGHT be safe to shoot mild .44-40 boolited loads through it, if there is little or no choke - but accuracy would be lousy.

floodgate

[schutzen]

Charlie/SW MO: You didn't do too badly! I have seen 2 of these in the last year. One was brought to me by another hunter safety instructor who wanted to know if I could ID it. He had never seen one. This is kind of unusual since he is a 75 year old machinist who was the community "gunsmith" for 50+ years. He has hunted and trapped all his life. The second was one I found in a collection while trying to ID the first. A round about way of saying they are not too common. Now on to what they are. These were marketed around 1900-1920 from hardware chains in the Midwest. They were known as "The Farmers Friend". The idea was one gun to do double duty. A light shot gun for small game/pests and a rifle for deer/wolves. Some of them have the hardware store's logo or name on them, but most do not. I have forgotten the name of it, but St. Louis used to have a large hardware store that sent traveling salesmen out to the rural areas of MO-AR-KY-TN-IL-IA-KS. They are the most likely source of your gun. Another possibility is Belknap Hardware out of Louisville KY (it may have been their predecessor that grew into Belknap). Most of these guns were contract built by the firms Stevens, Savage, Harrington-Richardson and several unknown European firms. Collectors value, not too great, $100-250 depending on condition, logo, and associated history. As a piece of rural Americana, it is a priceless artifact to pass on to your grandchildren to remind them of the days when every American household had a firearm as a tool. If you are a history buff it is a real jewel. If you are not and want to get rid of it, I suggest donating it to a historical museum or living history farm display on the condition they will display it appropriately.

[Nueces]

Charlie, my first South Texas dove hunt was with one of those H&R 410-44s. It had been on the family ranch when my Dad was growing up. He recalled shooting some revolver cartridge in it, from time to time, but not which round it was. I found one at a gunshow (NOT as good a deal as you got), that had the choke roughly drilled out. It is such a sleek number, that I planned to create an American rook rifle out of it, by cutting the barrel off to make a monobloc. 'Nother story.

A new 410 base mikes at 0.470, and a Dominion 44-40 shot case (fired) measures 0.467, so the 44-40 is a good candidate for the ball round. The fired Dominion case chambers nicely in the H&R. A 44 Special base mikes around 0.450, too small. Bore diameter of my H&R is 0.437, safe enough for a 44 ball, without the choke. Not too accurate, but surely good enough for killing hogs and such.

Schutzen, thanks for the history on these oldies. Mine is a work of art compared to today's 'cheap' guns.

Mark

[charlie / sw mo]

thanks for the info on the 410-44 cal . i checked this morning and a 44-40 case fits perfect--dont plan on shooting anything in it but 410 shells tho. this brings to mind an old spanish made pistol (copy of a smith) that had use shells that fit best stamped on the barrel. 38 special fit best so thats what my brother in law was shooting in it.

[Mk42gunner]

Charlie,
My Great Grandma had one of those 44-410 guns. I don't have any idea what brand it was, Dad traded it off when I was in Kindergarden. I think he said it was chambered for a 2" shell, so check the chamber before doing anything drastic with it.

Dad did tell about his Grandma killing a goose with it that landed among her tame geese; said she had to shoot it four or five times, which lends sredence to the two inch shell.

If you want your money back on it send me a PM.

Robert

[woody1]

Woody1, how about a .375 cast bullet of 250 grains or so in a .410 plastic wad?

The largest I feel safe shooting thru the choke in a plastic wad (in my 410's) is 000 buck and it's a tight fit. I've tried boolits and they want to tumble pretty bad...the shuttlecock effect of the hollow base slugs is best for smooth bore I suppose. Loaded right, I can get round ball loads and my homemade slugs to hit a paper plate about every time at 25 yd but that's about the best I've been able to do. Three 000 buck in a 2 1/2 in Win AA hull + WAA410 wad is a dandy load. Regards, Woody

[Slowpoke]

The largest I feel safe shooting thru the choke in a plastic wad (in my 410's) is 000 buck and it's a tight fit. I've tried boolits and they want to tumble pretty bad...the shuttlecock effect of the hollow base slugs is best for smooth bore I suppose. Loaded right, I can get round ball loads and my homemade slugs to hit a paper plate about every time at 25 yd but that's about the best I've been able to do. Three 000 buck in a 2 1/2 in Win AA hull + WAA410 wad is a dandy load. Regards, Woody


You ever try four OOO for a 5/8 oz. load in the 2 1/2 hull ?

good luck

[Firebird]

For a more modern take on the dual purpose theme, T/C makes a contender barrel that shoots the 410 shell and the 45 Colt cartridge; Taurus makes a 5-shot revolver that also shoots this combination.

[Newtire]

I don't know about the 410's but the 20 and 12 gauge hulls are not what the old AA's used to be. Remington STS is the good one now I believe.
Jeff

I have loaded shotgun shells since 1966 and it's true that the new AA's are real crap. Used to load 1-1/2 oz. magnum waterfowl loads in those things and they survived. The newer ones blow off the crimps in under 3 loadings. .410 is cheap to load but not practical to buy new shells for. The .444 cases work but won't fit some guns and the I.D. is too large for a good gas seal with the one piece plastic wads.

There is a place that sells slugs but they are too expensive. Would be a great thing to get a buy on a .410 mold?