Need help finding a rifle

[Jamesconn]

Im looking for a mil surp rifle that has plentiful reloadable brass, so I can cast for it.
The mosin is out I'm looking for 8mm Mauser rifles but can't really find any

I'd really like a rifle that also has surplus steel core ammunition

[wellfedirishman]

James, look on Gunbroker etc. for 8mm surplus guns. You can find Carcano 8mm and Portuguese Mauser 8mm for under $150 if you look around.

There are good deals on surplus guns that are less collectable if you are patient. Good luck.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

If it has to be a surplus rifle in 8mm you can still find plenty of Mausers for $300 or less on Gunbroker.

[Jamesconn]

It doesn't have to be 8mm Mauser I'd actually prefer it to not be because I hate the nazis.

I just want a good bolt gun I can cast for and hunt relatively cheaply if I have to spend $300 I might as well get a 30-06

[wallenba]

[QUOTE=Jamesconn;1525176]It doesn't have to be 8mm Mauser I'd actually prefer it to not be because I hate the nazis.

You should'nt let that bother you where an excellant rifle is concerned. Some were actually used against the Germans too. Lots of European countries were making Mausers under liscense. Most German regular army non-coms
( Whermacht ) probably were not members of the Nazi party, but conscripts. Heck...you can even find Israeli Mausers chambered in 7.62 NATO. But, if you are dead set against them, I'd look for a Schmidt-Rubin K31 (Swiss).

[Shepherd2]

Look for a Turkish Mauser. They were dirt cheap a few years back. I bought 2 decent ones for around $75 each. When I checked recently the going price seemed to be about $125.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

What will you be hunting and at what range if you don't mind me asking?

[swheeler]

It doesn't have to be 8mm Mauser I'd actually prefer it to not be because I hate the nazis.

I just want a good bolt gun I can cast for and hunt relatively cheaply if I have to spend $300 I might as well get a 30-06

James get a used Savage 110 from a pawn shop in 06 or 308 and you will be set.

[1Shirt]

Yep, find a good used 110 Sav, wood stock, plain Jane, in 308 or 30-06 and you will have a winner. Not fancy but a great starter.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[adrians]

not all mausers were "nazi" rifles .
you can get a decent german or a contracted out made mauser that was manufactured well before the "nazi party" existed.
i love my gew 98 and argie 1891 in 7.65.
don't let the "nazi' stigma stop you from getting a good affordable mauser.
another great milsurp to give consideration would be the K31 and the venerable Enfields,
happy new year,,,,,:evil::coffee::evil:

[leadman]

If you don't need a bolt gun there are always the NEF/H&R single shot rifles. A 30-30 is a great cast boolit cartridge and brass is real easy to come by.
Should be able to find one for no more than $150 for a really nice one.

If you want a bolt gun look at some of the older military guns cut down and sporterized.

The Mosin that you don't want can be a great shooter. Yes, brass is a little more and sometimes hard to find, but the brass will last along time shooting cast. Guns are dirt cheap right now also.

I know most of the steel core ammo for the 7.62 X39 is gone now since pistols were made in this caliber. Don't know if any other calibers have this or not.

[williamwaco]

I have no real interest in military surplus rifles but I was at the Fort Worth gun show yesterday and WWI and WWII Bolt guns were everywhere, more than I have ever seen, Must have uncovered a new warehouse somewhere. I was stunned by the asking prices. They were asking 200 to 1000 dollars for them. Mostly in the 300 to 400 range.

Unless you just wan't to "play soldier" you will be a lot better off finding a modern, used, Savage.

PS: Nobody else mentioed it but steel core ammo is a NO-NO. You are not going to find any legally.






.

[mooman76]

I picked up a used but like new Savage 200 or maybe it was Stevens. The names have merged and gone back and forth over the years. It was in 308 and this model is inexpensive but a real good shooter if you happen to run across one.

[junkbug]

Probably the best deal out there right now is the Yugo M24/47. This is in 7.9mm Mauser (aka 8mm), and was originally made by FN in Belgium as a contract piece. Refurbished by the Yugos in the 1950's many are almost like new. Distributers still have a few.

PS This is a 1898 style Mauser roughly the same size as the Kar98K, but with different bands, handguards, and swivels.

[Artful]

I have no real interest in military surplus rifles but I was at the Fort Worth gun show yesterday and WWI and WWII Bolt guns were everywhere, more than I have ever seen, Must have uncovered a new warehouse somewhere. I was stunned by the asking prices. They were asking 200 to 1000 dollars for them. Mostly in the 300 to 400 range.

Unless you just wan't to "play soldier" you will be a lot better off finding a modern, used, Savage.

PS: Nobody else mentioed it but steel core ammo is a NO-NO. You are not going to find any legally.

Actually you will depending upon age and caliber...

Federal Code:
921(a)(17)(B) the term 'armor piercing ammunition' means --


(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

(C) The term 'armor piercing ammunition' does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Secretary finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.

929(b)
LIST OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION (BANNED BY NAME BY THE BATF):

KTW AMMUNITION, all calibers. (Identified by a green coating on the projectile)

ARCANE AMMUNITION, all calibers. (Identified by a pointed bronze or brass projectile)

THV AMMUNITION, all calibers. (Identified by a brass or bronze projectile and having a headstamp containing the letters SFM and THV)

CZECHOSLOVAKIAN manufactured 9mm Parabellum (Luger) ammunition having an iron or steel core. (Identified by a cupronickel jacket and headstamp containing a triangle, star and dates 49, 50, 51, or 52. The bullet is attracted to a magnet)

GERMAN manufactured 9mm Parabellum (Luger) having an iron or steel bullet core. (Original packaging is marked Pisolenpatronen 08 m.E. May have black colored bullet. This bullet is attracted to a magnet)

MSC AMMUNITION, Caliber .25. (Identified by a hollow point brass bullet. NOTE: MSC ammunition Caliber .25 identified by a hollow point copper bullet is not armor piercing)

BLACK STEEL ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION, All Calibers, as produced by National Cartridge, Atlanta, Georgia.

BLACK STEEL METAL PIERCING AMMUNITION, All Calibers, as produced by National Cartridge, Atlanta, Georgia.

7.62mm NATO AP (Identified by black coloring in the bullet tip. This ammunition is used by various NATO countries. The U.S. military designation is M61 AP)

7.62mm NATO SLAP (identified by projectile having a plastic sabot around a hard penetrator. The penetrator protrudes above the sabot and is similar in appearance to a Remington accelerator cartridge)

PMC ULTRAMAG .38 Special caliber, constructed entirely of a brass type material, and plastic pusher disc located at the base of the projectile. NOTE: PMC ULTRAMAG 38J late production made of copper with lead alloy projectile is not armor piercing.

OMNISHOCK, a .38 Special cartridge with a lead bullet containing a mild steel core with a flattened head resembling a wad cutter. (NOTE: OMNISHOCK cartridges having a bullet with an aluminum core are not armor piercing.)

7.62x39mm with steel core. (NOTE: these projectiles have a steel core. Projectiles having a lead core with steel jacket or steel case are not armor piercing)

NOTE: THE FOLLOWING CARTRIDGES HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION:

5.56MM (.223) SS109 and M855 Ammunition, Identified by a green coating on the projectile tip.

U.S. .30-06 M2 AP, Identified by a black coating on the projectile tip.

Note the operative phrase in a handgun - problems started when they started making special handguns in 7.62x39, 308, 30'06 etc.

As far as surplus rifle ammo with steel core aka Armor Piercing, any that was already imported before the law went into effect is legal to own.


J&G Sales has Yugo 24/47's for two hundred and a good buy judging by my past experience
http://www.jgsales.com/rifles-c-209_217.html

[OTThomas]

I bought a m95 steyr from J and G for something like $150. Fun little guns, decent accuracy up to 100 yards, surp ammo is available, and reloading it will be a trick but is possible. Just a suggestion.

Thomas

[Jamesconn]

I plan on hunting boar deer and moose and a couple other things too I haven't really been hunting yet by as soon as I graduate I'm going to move close to family that will teach me to hunt and fish

I can fish ok with anything as I live on a lake next to a ocean but when they go fishing it's like magic.

I can probably shoot something bymyself Im not horrible at tracking and shooting but I know absolutely nothing about processing the animal or carrying it away.

I am not opposed to the mosin brass is just harder to come by I'll probably buy it anyway.

I don't hate the Germans I like Germany I just hate nazis and refuse to own anything with symbolic or historical ties to them.

Even though I don't have a job my dad is giving me his iPhone 4 cause he got the 4s so I'm gonna sell my 3GS which is goin for about $200 on eBay so that should be enough to buy a mosin with hex reciever and a tin of ammo.

I'm workin on gettin a job and I'm going to graduate next December my parents are going to move to Tennessee I think and I will hopefully move close to my family in Minnesota to learn this stuff. I'm going to go to school for welder electrician and machinist if anybody works in any of these fields PM me please I have a couple questions.

[Artful]

If it was me I'd buy a Mosin-Nagant, best buy for the money - buy factory new ammo for reloadable cases - buy some surplus to get cheap practice ammo. If your set on a Mauser check used gun rack for a commercial like Santa Barbara Mark X interarms import. If you can find a 308 Savage bolt gun for your price point even better choice. I wouldn't turn down a good used SMLE Mk4 either if you can find one in your price point.

[jonk]

Grafs normally carries mosin brass. Even when they are out, buy a few boxes of Hotshot, Wolf Gold, or PRVI shoot and reuse the brass. Mosin brass isn't hard to get at all.

I too would second the Mauser. As said, NOT all Mausers are Nazi, and many fought against them. The Turkish Mauser as produced in the 30s was made in Turkey (look for one labeled K.Kale to be sure of this) and they were neutral for heaven's sake.

If in your shoes though, I'd probably look hard at the K31 Swiss. Again, Grafs carries the brass, and it is available as reloadable ammo from several places; but you can also use more readily available .284 Winchester cases. Just FL size, trim if needed, and chamfer.

[docone31]

I have found Ishapores to be fantastic rifles!
I got my wife one so when we go to the range we are share-pals.
Both of them are with reciever sights. Midway has them. the Enfield #1MKIII fits it.
They are a great choice and inexpensive also.
I fire 7.62, but I also use .308. Both work great.

[fj3fury]

I'd say go with a mosin for overall price. Surplus ammo is still out there, prvi makes re-loadable casings, go with rcbs or hornady dies. I have the Lee dies, but had to use the .310-.311 from a .303 brit set to expand to a proper sized bullet. If you want an 8x57 mauser I'll post a link to a place selling yugo model 48's. You can covert brass from 30-06 easy, but sporting ammo is tending to be more available than before... Surplus ammo is drying up though.
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000268&dir=700|701|1029

I've ordered a few rifles from them on my C&R license, as well as re-loading supplies, and they are a good company to deal with.

[Rich/WIS]

The MN rifles are cheap, yes, and accurate and powerful enough for hunting. Surplus ammo and new manufacture with hunting bullets is available. However the action is awkward and the safety even more so, and we won't go into scoping it. If you are serious about hunting hit the pawnshops and gunshops and find a used gun in a popular caliber that is either set up with a scope or can be scoped easily. Sporterized Mausers, Springfields and US Enfields are not that hard to find and not very expensive, commercial rifles also although a bit more $$$. If you want readily available brass then 30-06 is a good choice, a lot more people shoot it than reload it. Ask among your friends and coworkers, some probably have a rifle they don't use anymore, or Dad,s or Gramp's old rifle.

[lbaize3]

I have an Enfield 308 that shoots 165 grain cast boolits very well. While the open sights are excellent, you can get a side mount for a scope if you want one. Brass and components are varied and not terribly expensive. You would have little trouble selling it later because of the caliber, should you wish to sell it.

[xfoxofshogo]

go to a gun shop aks if thay have some part guns in 8mm some times you can fine a realy nice gun that needs a bolt or a barrel for 100 to 200 bucks
and the nice thing about 8mm mausers is you can make the brass out of 30-06 or rebarrel it to 30-06 and use the same bolt or 308 same bolt even the 9.3x62 will work for this if you fined one lol

o and parts are not to bad to get most gun shops have a big box in the back full of mauser parts

[Four Fingers of Death]

The Mosin and a can of ammo would be a reasonable start, but if I was going to hunt seriously, I would go for a used or budget 308 or 3006. A Savage Axis with a scope can be had for very little money and they shoot like a dream. A 308 will still get you cheap milsup ammo or Russian plinking ammo, Wolf I think it is. Be a shame to lose a moose by drilling a hole through it with a fmj and having it lumber off into the next county to die a lingering death. With a 308 or 3006, you can practice on cheap ammo and hunt with good stuff. Also easy to cast for, reload for etc.

How much is an Axis over there? They are pretty cheap here.

[Jamesconn]

The Mosin and a can of ammo would be a reasonable start, but if I was going to hunt seriously, I would go for a used or budget 308 or 3006. A Savage Axis with a scope can be had for very little money and they shoot like a dream. A 308 will still get you cheap milsup ammo or Russian plinking ammo, Wolf I think it is. Be a shame to lose a moose by drilling a hole through it with a fmj and having it lumber off into the next county to die a lingering death. With a 308 or 3006, you can practice on cheap ammo and hunt with good stuff. Also easy to cast for, reload for etc.

How much is an Axis over there? They are pretty cheap here.

I think wolf and/or S&B makes soft points in 7.62x54R

I plan on getting a 30-06 but the mosin will have to serve me for awhile first.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I think wolf and/or S&B makes soft points in 7.62x54R

I plan on getting a 30-06 but the mosin will have to serve me for awhile first.

A Mosin will get you going, thats for sure, rough as guts as us Aussies say, but hell for stout and invariably reasonably accurate.

[MBTcustom]

I second the Mosin. If you have trouble finding brass, just ask for it on swappin and sellin, somebody will help you out with a bargain. If you have trouble coming up with the money for dies, just buy a lee loader for it. It wont work for cast lead as is, but send it to me and I will help you make the necessary modifications for free, and make you a neck flaring tool also. They aint pretty, and its kind of slow, but I realy love my Lee loaders.

[Multigunner]

The Lee Enfields aren't so hard to handload for once you understand them, and light cast Boolit loads don't stress the brass that much on first firing.

If headspace is good, .067 or so, then full power J word loads on mil spec brass with good rim thickness won't stretch the brass bad enough to prevent decent case life.

I've used old Soviet Steel core 7.62X54r bullets in my reloads. The Soviet 147 grain boatail bullet works fine in my two groove Savage, the two groove bores seldom handle boat tail bullets well, at least if theres any noticable throat erosion.

A No.4 or No.5 Enfield in very good condition is a great first milsurp rifle.
Replacement parts are still available, so buying a bubba'ed No.4 sporter then restoring it to military configuration is not difficult.
I've occasionally seen very good condition No.4 barreled actions in sporterized stocks going for less than 150 USD.

A cut down No.4 sporter can be rebuilt as a No.5 clone using reproduction No.5 stock sets and other parts from Numrich Arms.
Thats a good way to rescue a butchered No.4 in otherwise good mechanical condition.

Bore condition is important if you expect good accuracy, though sometimes a worn bore can suprize you.

Cast boolits allow sizing adjustments to compensate for worn or oversized bores.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I second the Mosin. If you have trouble finding brass, just ask for it on swappin and sellin, somebody will help you out with a bargain. If you have trouble coming up with the money for dies, just buy a lee loader for it. It wont work for cast lead as is, but send it to me and I will help you make the necessary modifications for free, and make you a neck flaring tool also. They aint pretty, and its kind of slow, but I realy love my Lee loaders.

What mods do you make to the Lee Loader for cast? I started using one of these in 1969 and am fond of them and have a few. Never loaded cast with them though.

[Jamesconn]

Thanks guys ill get the mosin soon can yall recommend a hunting load and a plinkin load for cast.

[WILCO]

Unless you just wan't to "play soldier" you will be a lot better off finding a modern, used, Savage.

I would disagree. Some time back, a friend of mine wanted to join the "Voodoo Magic" Long Range Rifle Club at work. All the other guys were trying to steer him towards the high end of equipment. When he asked me my thoughts, I suggested milsurp. He went with a 91/30 Mosin Nagant and built up a very good 1,000 yard rifle for under $500.00. He then went big time and built another Mosin from just a receiver and a .31 cal. heavy barrel for a polish machine gun. Shoots long range all day for small change. Milsurps whacked lots of folks in their time for a reason. :Fire: