1886 Win Tang Sight question....???

[rbertalotto]

I bought an 1886 Winchester (Japan) in 45-70. The PO had installed a Lyman tang sight.

http://images58.fotki.com/v279/photos/2/36012/10301736/P1030209-vi.jpg

In all my years of shooting this is my first experience with this type of sight.

The rifle is amazingly accurate. But once sighted in, the sight itself wobbles quite a bit and at over 100 yards it is effecting the windage POI. The elevation stays spot on. There does not appear to be anyway to "lock" the sight once it is set.

The wobble comes from two places.....minor wobble where the sight sits in the piece that is attached to the tang, and major wobble where the sight elevates on the threaded shaft.

Comments?

[GARCIA]

There was an article in a recent Handloader/Rifle magazine that described the exact same problem.

They ended up shimming the base and something else (senior moment!)

Tom

[Olevern]

I have a Marlin 1895 LTD in 45-70 that came with this site. I was not impressed with the quality of the site and have set the rifle aside until I can put together the funds to get a Marbles site (Or, better yet, a mid range Soule site from Baldwin
http://www.baldwin-sights.com/Mid_Range.htm

http://www.baldwin-sights.com/

Adjustments on the Soule site are much more precise and allow for windage adjustment at the rear site as well as elevation, which the Lyman (obviously) does as well.

Problem is I keep coming across these guns in gun shops that I just gotta have, limiting my funds for projects on other guns already in hand.

I just bought a S&W model 29-2 ( 6 1/2" ) for $495.00 and another Marlin 94 in 44 mag for $299.00

Maybe I just need to stop going into gun shops for awhile to keep this addiction under control long enough to do planned work on the guns I already have. There are too many bargains out there right now with this economy and I have too little resistance to a poor orphan gun in a cold, heartless shop needing to be appreciated.

[GARCIA]

Dang it man!!!!!

Them sights be on the expensive side!!!!

Guess the old adage of "You pay for what you get" really applies!

Tom

[Buzzard II]

You do get what you pay for! They do the job the first time, everytime, and that sure beats the heck out of frustration!

[rbertalotto]

I replaced the Lyman witha Marble............HUGE improvement! Windage adjustment alone was worth the price of admission.

Much more sturdy. Very impressed with the quality of the Marble.

[Philngruvy]

I found this article to be very helpful.

http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/lyman-2-rifle-sight-wobble-fix.html

[Chill Wills]

The old Lyman tang sights, as in before you were born are great and the quality has been going down hill until what you describe is about par for them. The older sights are available from sight dealers at larger gun shows or online gun auctions. You know the ones.

As an option, MVA currently makes what could be called a reproduction of the Marble & Lyman tang sight and it, like everything they make is the best. Flawless fit and finish made of steel in the USA. But, cost is about twice the Lyman at $225. First rate comes at a price.
http://www.montanavintagearms.com/combo_rear.html

Shame on me. I just now see that in clear print you were talking about the Winchester 1886. My favorite. The only thing with the Win 1886 and a tang sight is, it is in the way of our thumb, unlike the 1894.

[Chill Wills]

Olevern, Just asking now. Have you ever put a soule sight on a Winchester 1886? Just my guess but I think it will not match up well when you operate the lever. The 1886 tangs are made to fit in between the two halves when it comes back over the hammer.

BTW- Baldwin sights are first rate and I have them on all my singleghot rifles. Also Steve has the threaded soule sight knobs turning the correct direction for left and right. The other brands that use the other way are a real pain. You go left when you want to go right.:shock:

Take care

[rbertalotto]

Here is a picture of the new Marble tang sight.

http://images61.fotki.com/v219/photos/2/36012/10301736/DSC_4086-vi.jpg

And a few pictures of the new 1886 are here:

http://public.fotki.com/Rbertalotto/things-that-go-bang/1886-winchester-tak/

[barkerwc4362]

I have an original Lyman tang sight on my Browning 1886 and there is no movement of the sight once it is fully up. If there is movement in the sight then it is improperly mounted or not designed for that rifle. I have all original Marbles and Lymans on my Marlins and the Lyman on my 1886. All of mine are used as a hunting sights so I have no use of a windage adjustable base. I zero the sight in windage with shims under the base with the load I will be using and then leave it. I do like the flip aperture on the Lyman's that gives you a fine aperture for precise aiming or a ghost ring for hunting.

Bill

[TXGunNut]

Very nice, glad it worked out for you. Don't see those on the used gun rack in my travels, probably just as well. I'm afflicted with the same weakness for "orphaned" guns as Olevern. ;)

[Jon K]

Olevern, Just asking now. Have you ever put a soule sight on a Winchester 1886? Just my guess but I think it will not match up well when you operate the lever. The 1886 tangs are made to fit in between the two halves when it comes back over the hammer.

BTW- Baldwin sights are first rate and I have them on all my singleghot rifles. Also Steve has the threaded soule sight knobs turning the correct direction for left and right. The other brands that use the other way are a real pain. You go left when you want to go right.:shock:

Take care

Chill,

You asked...so here's minehttp://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l101/Jon_K_2006/002-3.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l101/Jon_K_2006/001-4.jpg
It doesn't need to be tilted back to eject the case, but needs to tilt 30* to lever the next round.

Olevern,
The "Short Range sight sits lower than the Mid Range, or Long Range...allowing more clearancde when mounted on a levergun.
I have mounted on my 1881 Marlins and now Win 1886. On the 1881 Marlin in needs to be almost all the way down to cycle the lever, but once you get used to moving the sight before levering...it's no big deal.

Jon

[Chill Wills]

That arrangement would make me a little crazy (crazier) for most reasons I carry rifle but the up side of it is you have one VERY good target sight setup. Likely exceeds the accuracy of the rifle and its master. This must be your range and lever match sight!?

Looks like someone got after the 1886 stock with some sandpaper. I like 1886’s a lot. Probably my favorite of all Lever Action Rifles. Heavy tho.

It is a crime to install a receiver sight on an 1886 but I acquired a rifle with one 25 years ago with the sight already installed . A good old Lyman that looks like it was put on back when you could still get a tag for Mammoth. I have no problem with it as it was installed long enough ago to be someone’s genuine work rifle/sight. And, it works very well.

I approve of your likes in sight makers. Baldwin sights and they maker Steve Baldwin are tops!

[Cimarron Red]

Here's another hunting-style tang sight option -- the Columbia Precision Tang Sight, adjustable for windage and elevation:

http://columbiaprecision.com/index.html

I have no personal experience with this sight, but a friend of mine is very happy with his.

I have an MVA mid-range soule sight on one of my Miroku '86's. With this sight in the upright position the bolt-to-sight clearance is about 1/8 inch. With the sight leaning forward, as from recoil, the bolt will definitely hit the sight when you cycle the lever unless you straighten the sight up.

I had an MVA Model 130 Sharps-style vernier sight on this gun at first, but the left side of the bolt would always hit the leade screw unless I folded the sight back a bit before opening the bolt. Also, the Model 130 is quite low and MVA staffs mount so far back on the tang so as to clear the '86 bolt that with the M 130 I could not get much beyond the 300 meter pig on the silhouette range at BP-duplicating velocities. The MVA mid-range provides about .280" more elevation at its zero setting plus about another .500" + of staff height.

All of my shooting is at silhouettes or gongs, so I don't mind the inconvenience of the bulky sights or heavy rifles.

[JayinAZ]

Question for you experienced tang sight guys, can you leave the buckhorns on too, and have them both useable?

[Chill Wills]

Yes and no.
It depends on a number of things that you have to try as you go.
Leave the barrel sights on and mount the tang sight and see how it work out for all the things you do. You will know right off IF you have to remove the barrel sights when something can't be viewed the way you would like.

[JayinAZ]

I kinda figured it would be a trial and error thing :). I was thinking of one for my 1892 .38-40 if it turns out to be accurate enough to need one.

[barkerwc4362]

If the barrel mounted sight folds you can leave it in place. My 86 and my Marlin 1893 in 38-55 have folding barrel sights and are left in place. When hunting I leave the rear tang up. But the option of using the barrel mounted sight for shorter ranges is there. I generally set the barrel sight for shorter ranges 25 - 50 yards, then fold it.

Bill

[shovel80]

On that Baldwin site on Post#13, You could probably turn the base around and not have to tilt the site to rack the Bolt...Or, maybe there wouldn't be enough thumb room, I know on the Sharps Single shots, we mount the bases with the staff too the rear!

Terry

[Jon K]

That base has the staff in the center....equal distance to center.
It is not really an issue...moving it, to lever the next round into the chamber.
Right now, I am trying to learn to shoot left hand/left eye, I'm right handed right eye dominant, and can't see the front sight, or target through the cateract. Anything else is trivial.

Jon