Moving forward with my 2nd Amendment rights! [Archive]

ErikO

12-30-2011, 12:42 PM

I've been posting here for a while and I'm sure almost nobody know this but I am not in the possession of any firearms as yet. I'm a rental rat. That all changes when my MO makes it to the gun shop that I am getting a S&W M&P15 stripped lower from.

This will get me off of the sidelines with several things that I have been gathering info on. Reloading my own ammo, adding a tool to my defensive toolbox and basic gunsmithing will become much more active persuits. I hope to be casting my own pills by the end of the year, need to work on my wife's level of comfort with that one...

Yep, after doing several months of hands-on research, I should have a CAR-15 built by the end of May. Now I'll have an excuse to get some .223 Rem dies and a few pounds of either TAC or AR-Comp to put in the .223 brass I have accumlulated.

This all started when earlier this month my wife poitned out an Armalite armorer's course that was open to the public at the range we shoot at. She felt awful that I didn't have an AR to take advantage of this class, I'd be a Certified AR Armorer after the 2nd day was over.

Wayne Smith

12-30-2011, 12:54 PM

Tell your wife that my wife is a Geologist and works for the State Department of Environmental Quality. If there were a environmental safety issue she would be all over it. Yes, safety issues abound, but they are all about heat and steam in the lead, not problems breathing or lead in the air. Basic common sense safety is all you need, and that information is all over here and has been for years.

Any issue she might bring up can be completely answered here by experts, independent of boolit casting. We have chemists, engineers, and about any profession you can imagine.

ErikO

12-30-2011, 01:00 PM

Yeah, she's more concerned about the lead vapor rumors interfearing with my son's puberty.

I swear I heard a loud record scratch when she said why I can't cast yet. Just need to wait for her to go on vacation...lol Or I can just wait the year and a half for when he's 12 (that's when her comfort level says it would be 'ok').

I have no plans on doing it in the basement, we have a nice patio that is away from the house. I only plan on using prepared ingots and would be fluxing with sawdust over a propane heater.

Once she gets her 1911, she'll want me to start casting so we can afford to shoot as often as she wants to. I give it until September when our son's tutition is due again. Stupid bad public school system is making me broke...

frkelly74

12-30-2011, 01:45 PM

Step at a time, and don't eat any. Two things to remember.

montana_charlie

12-30-2011, 02:25 PM

That all changes when my MO makes it to the gun shop that I am getting a S&W M&P15 stripped lower from.

Yep, after doing several months of hands-on research, I should have a CAR-15 built by the end of May.
Did your research take you to this site? http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_16&products_id=283
It's the lowest cost I have found for turning your stripped lower into a complete rifle.

CM

ErikO

12-30-2011, 02:48 PM

There's an excellent reason to ask questions, you find answers. Charlie, I hadn't found that one yet, thanks!

I was planning on ordering from SARCO, but akparts.com seems to be beating them out.

Especially THIS: http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_17&products_id=472

MtGun44

12-30-2011, 06:21 PM

First, welcome to gun ownership! Second - a bit of care is all that is needed to work with
lead safely.

Children should be more careful than adults about ingesting lead. Lead vapors are NOT a real
issue at normal casting temperatures, but lead spatter, dust and debris WILL be all around
the casting area. So it is important to not eat, drink or smoke in those areas or with hands
that could be contaminated by lead because putting lead into your mouth is how you actually
get lead into your system.

As long as you and the boy wash your hands carefully before handling anything that will
subsequently go into your mouths, then you will not have any significant issue.

Shooting on an indoor range is a similar situation, but there is some lead in the air from the
combustion of the primers and POSSIBLY from the bases of lead boolits exposed to high
heat from the powder combustion. Treat an entire indoor range as a contaminated zone and
do not put stuff into your mouth until you wash up after shooting at an indoor range. Probably
good to wash after shooting a revolver, too, since there is possibly some lead blased out the
cyl gap.

Very simple rules, followed as if it mattered (because it DOES) will keep you in great shape
while casting. Many casters have been checked many times with no significant blood lead
levels because they use normal good housekeeping rules.

Bill

Love Life

12-30-2011, 06:40 PM

Congrats!!

thehouseproduct

12-31-2011, 02:44 PM

Please also check out del-ton.com. They are crazy cheap and have a good reputation. All you need is a stripped lower and a mag. I've built 4 or 5 rifles from their kits. They also allow you to customize your build while still building the upper for you.

exile

12-31-2011, 02:57 PM

Very ambitious project for a new gun owner. I am jealous to say the least. The first gun I purchased was a Ruger Mark II, stainless, with a 5 1/2" bull barrel. Welcome to the fold!

exile

Wayne Smith

12-31-2011, 07:03 PM

You can tell your wife that there is no problem with lead fumes. The vapor pressure of lead is so high that the fumes don't get more than about 1/4" above the surface of the lead. Remember, we are talking about one of the heaviest elements easily available. It is not easy to move lead, even as a vapor.

The thing to be extremely careful of that has not yet been mentioned is lead oxide - especially the white lead oxide. This is easily absorbed and tastes sweet. It is the primary danger to children. Lead in it's elemental form is not easily absorbed into the body.

Once your son is beyond the age of putting everything into his mouth, or rather, your youngest child is past that age, close supervision is all that is needed. Teaching children the dangers of any hobby is necessary and can be done early. They don't need to understand why, just the danger.

ErikO

01-02-2012, 04:20 AM

After seeing quite a few negatives about Sarco Inc, I'm removing them from my list of parts providers. Del-Ton does look very promising, as does a few others. I'm not worried, this won't be my only/last AR build.

Unfortunately for me, my wife admits that her distrust of molten lead has nothing to do with anything that makes sense. She stated that she is not sure what the deal is herself, she just feels that molten lead is not safe.

Not a huge deal, that just means she has to accept that I'll be spending money on my reloading supplies. ;)

Wayne Smith

01-02-2012, 02:08 PM

Recluse

01-02-2012, 02:26 PM

Yeah, she's more concerned about the lead vapor rumors interfearing with my son's puberty.

If lead vapor rumors could interfere/inhibit/retard a daughter's puberty, I'd think every dad in America, if not the world, would take up boolit casting. :)

Erik, you've gotten some really good advice and information on both the parts/components for your project(s) as well as the scoop on lead and how it affects individuals.

As I posted elsewhere several years ago, I had some slightly elevated lead levels and I discontinued my shooting at an indoor range for around six months. I also increased my Vitamin C intake and wore vinyl gloves when handling/sorting dirty brass.

I did not slow my casting down one bit, and I cast indoors in my reloading shop. 240 square feet, air-conditioned, ceiling fan, three windows but otherwise no "specialty" venting for the lead furnace.

I continued to smelt and cast as I always have. Next trip to the doc and subsequent lab tests, my lead levels were below the "acceptable" levels.

That was the final bit for me--casting, so long as you don't heat your alloy up to 1000F, is not going to give you lead poisoning, but sure as hell, a lot of shooting indoors and handling dirty brass can/will, especially if you're not careful to wash your hands thoroughly and often.

:coffee:

ErikO

01-03-2012, 11:49 AM

If lead vapor rumors could interfere/inhibit/retard a daughter's puberty, I'd think every dad in America, if not the world, would take up boolit casting. :)

Erik, you've gotten some really good advice and information on both the parts/components for your project(s) as well as the scoop on lead and how it affects individuals.

As I posted elsewhere several years ago, I had some slightly elevated lead levels and I discontinued my shooting at an indoor range for around six months. I also increased my Vitamin C intake and wore vinyl gloves when handling/sorting dirty brass.

I did not slow my casting down one bit, and I cast indoors in my reloading shop. 240 square feet, air-conditioned, ceiling fan, three windows but otherwise no "specialty" venting for the lead furnace.

I continued to smelt and cast as I always have. Next trip to the doc and subsequent lab tests, my lead levels were below the "acceptable" levels.

That was the final bit for me--casting, so long as you don't heat your alloy up to 1000F, is not going to give you lead poisoning, but sure as hell, a lot of shooting indoors and handling dirty brass can/will, especially if you're not careful to wash your hands thoroughly and often.

:coffee:

:lol: I agree on the puberty issue, my son's messed up enough with my Y chromisome that a little lead vapor may help. :) At least my wife's admitted that her reluctance is not based upon fact and she is willing to work on it. I know that once she sees that we can save a lot when I start casting she'll be ok.

I remember reading your posts on your health issues and what you did to lower your lead levels and have taken them to heart. Nitrile gloves are in use when I deal with dirty brass and I am not tumble-cleaning my brass so I can keep the particualtes out of the air. There are far worse things in our ground water here than some loqw-count heavy metals, so I dispose of my cleaning water in our wash basin drain in the basement. Also, I have upped my Vitamine C intake.

We do shoot at an indoor range, but they track their air quality very closely and we wash up after every session. Since we plan on shooting for years to come, we're reducing our enviornmental risks as much as possible.

ErikO

01-03-2012, 11:54 AM

Erik, tell your wife she's right! Anything that is over 650 degrees in temp. isn't safe! It's not that it is safe, it is that reasonable safety precautions are adequate. Driving isn't safe! Every time I go through a green light I'm gambling on the other drivers being willing to stop on red - and one time I lost.

You are more than half way there. Your wife shoots. She will appreciate the savings of reloading and casting, although I would hesitate to suggest you begin casting with the .223! Pick up a low pressure round to start casting with. I would suggest a used .38 S&W or something in 45ACP or 45 Colt. Use condom bullets in the .223 until you are an experienced and confident caster.

Yeah, we both REALLY like 1911's so 200gr SWC .45 ACP will more than likely be what I cast first with 1oz 12ga lee slugs a close second. Best return on investment with those loads. At some point I should be confident enough with my ability to cast that I'd move up to gaschecked .223. Until then, I'll be buying the .223 pills.

lbaize3

01-03-2012, 02:00 PM

Welcome, ErikO! I like the way you are going about obtaining the skills necessary to be a safe and informed firearm owner. It really helps to have a wife that participates in your interests and joins you in your pursuits. Ask me how I know.... Good luck to ya and you have chosen an excellent forum to turn to in terms of experience and advice.

ErikO

01-03-2012, 05:41 PM

lol I've been here a while, just soaking up knowledge and participating in the give-and-take in the Pit.

So far I've managed to steer clear of some horrible deals and helped out a young'un with his .38 Spcl reloading in exchange for some .45 SWC's that will go down range at some point this year.

I also have a local fellow reloader who got me started and has LOTS of experience with bottle-necked rifle reloading and welding so I am very lucky and blessed. Between this forum and a few others I am able to hold my own in conversations, not pass on bad/wrong knowledge and help out folks even greener than myself.

Honestly, the only real reasons that it took me almost 40 years to get my 'first gun' is due to first growing up in the 'wilds' of the Chicago Suburbs and then my wife not realizing she liked shooting (and is darned good at it) until this past spring. Living in Missouri, I have zero reason to not be a gun owner, this state is excellent when it comes to ownership and shooting laws. We should both have our MO CCW by the end of the year, her's after she finishes her citizenship.

ErikO

02-23-2012, 01:34 PM

Update on this:

I will have the lower before I turn 40 at the end of March. :)

Also, we have a slab in our back yard that used to have a shed on it a while back. It seems that my having spent President's Day cleaning it up has cleared a space for me to both alloy and cast with my wife's blessing. Now to get a 75kBTU LP burner, a bunch of wheel weights, some non-stick or cast iron muffin pans and some stainless steel pots to melt in.

Houndog

02-23-2012, 08:47 PM

runfiverun

02-23-2012, 10:52 PM

ummm, breathing the steam from the dishwasher is more dangerous than the lead from a casting pot ever will be.

leadman

02-23-2012, 11:16 PM

Just a thought to ease your wife into your casting. If you bought some ready to cast ingots for your first few casting sessions she could see that part of the operation and the money saved. Then talk about how much more could be saved by scrounging and smelting your own lead.
Then later smelt the WWs you have been saving up. This is the dirtiest and smelliest part of the hobby so do not assault her senses all at one time. Ease her into the process.
You could also tell her you can do the smelting when her and the children are gone for awhile.
Whichever way you do it think about the wind direction and keep the area clean and neat.

Stay safe and enjoy our hobby.

Wayne Smith

02-24-2012, 09:23 AM

You are well on the way, Erik. I agree with the above. Click on the RotoMetals logo above and look at some of their deals. Maybe wait for a sale. Get clean alloy to start with and whey you start melting your collected stuff you will know when something is wrong. From reading here you will probably know what to do when you recognize something wrong. Sounds like that slab needs a roof and walls - you will have a casting shed. Insulate it, get power to it, heat and air, and you have a year around casting shed! Think of all the exercise you will get, too.

ErikO

02-24-2012, 09:45 AM

I'll second another posters recomendation of Del-Ton! They assemble and headspace the upper so about all you have to do is the "put tab A into slot B" routine.Two other suggestions I'll add is be SURE you get mil spec parts. They are cheaper to replace if you break something because of better availability and you aren't married to just a few configurations.
Go over to the AR15.com websiite and read till you can't stand any more! They have a section on building an AR that will give you VERY good information and several tricks to make the build easier. MOST of the folks there will be as helpful as the folks here.

Yep, I'm an arfcom'er. You're not joking about the amount of info that is readily available there. I'm also over at m4carbine.net's forum. I will definately go with a midlength kit with a full upper for my first outing. While the Sarco 'kit' might be less expensive, I kind of like to have all of the parts I need actually in the kit when it ships. I know I will build an upper from parts, that won't be my first go-around. I have some more tools to get before I do that.

As far as casting goes, I do see the wisdom of working with clean alloy to start with. I'll be getting a 12 gauge slug single-banger mold to start with, I figure that has the lowest learning curve and should be more forgiving than just about anything besides an ingot mold. And since I can only use slugs at the indoor range, it makes sense from a monitary standpoint as well. I've already got the hang of metalic reloading and plan on doing some 12 gauge shotgun reloading with the slugs as well.

GREENCOUNTYPETE

02-24-2012, 12:41 PM

26 gr h4895 under a 50gr pill works real nice out of a mini-14 never tried it with an AR

it also fills the case right up , and adds that level of no way to double charge as 27.5 is max and a compressed charge

i found a deal some older hornady soft point varmint , the kids sure like to see the water filled milk jugs explode from them , blows parts 20 feet in the air , it is their job to pick them up

i started casting outside , then wife's lead concerns were gone

429421Cowboy

02-24-2012, 03:54 PM

Good luck getting into it all, you've done your homework better than almost anybody would have, and used patience that i couldn't have showed!
My brother has been an AR armoror for uver 20 years for the USAF, when he finally had saved enough money last year and decided he finally wanted his own, he bought a lower and components for three uppers in different configurations, let me watch him assemble the first two then let me build the last one, it truely is not that hard and i found it pretty awesome to actually build a gun. Realy is the Swiss army knife of guns, i don't own one and aren't planning on it for awhile, not my thing but i could get used to doing so many different things witht the same gun. Glad to have you in the fold!

ErikO

02-24-2012, 04:29 PM

I just called over to a tire shop near where I live...the counter guy said that they have a lot of busted wheel weights...time to check them out.

I used the old 'I cast my own fishing weights' excuse. ;)

ErikO

04-10-2012, 02:02 PM

Fast forward to today.

Just got the tracking # for my lower, should be at the LGS by the weekend. Sold off/traded a lot of my 'rainy day' brass I've collected over teh last year, got ernough cash freed up for teh lower parts kit and possibly a 6-position stock assembly.

Also, yesterday my wife promised that I will have the rest of the rifle built by July. I then let her know that we'd each have pistols before then, she'll get the SIG P238 she wants and I'll get the S&W 6906 9mm I've been looking at unless I can get the cash together for a used Bersa Thunder 380 that is floating around St Louis.

I have some scrap metal I'll be trading for wheel weights and plumbing lead this weekend, should get me a few good pieces. I now have ~20 lbs of lead WW with some 25-odd lbs of zinc and steel ones to sell to the scrapper as well. I'll have to collect my non-reloadable brass and popped primers to bring with, should get a buck or two for those.

Things are coming along nicely. :)

Moonie

04-10-2012, 05:24 PM

I've found my sons AR in 5.56 will cycle a 55gr cast with 16gr of H4895, it is mid-length gas.

ErikO

04-11-2012, 11:34 PM

I've found my sons AR in 5.56 will cycle a 55gr cast with 16gr of H4895, it is mid-length gas.

I'm planning on the first upper I scratch build to be a midlength 16" 5.56. I'm going with some surplus pull down powder I can get locally for $90/8#.

The bit is being chomped for sure.

ErikO

04-12-2012, 01:11 PM

Yep, lower is in at the LGS, picking it up on Saturday morning. Pics of the new family member inbound after that. ;)

ErikO

04-13-2012, 10:54 PM

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/n0valoco/rightsideofAR-15lower.jpg

LGS is going to be closed tomorrow for the NRA show downtown, had to get the receiver today. A 1911 grip adaptor found its way home with me as well. Parts kit is next week.

FFL went smoothly, put my SN on the form and it went through just fine.

ErikO

06-29-2012, 04:20 PM

Update pic:

http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj568/ErikOguns/6-21update.jpg

Next to go is some goodies from Surplus Ammo and a Stag 11.5" barrel from the same LGS I got the Pearce gripframe from. Then, optics from Primary Arms when they restock their mini-red dot in August.

Finished color will be either a low-build red primer with a matte clearcoat over it for durability or else a Duracoat Magpul Urban Dark Earth with a light tan/gold paracord wrap on the buffer tube so I am not resting my cheak on metal.