Anyone use cast boolits in a Dragoon revolver?

[Sixgun Symphony]

I have only used ball in my Dragoon revolver. But I am wondering what a 255gr cast boolit made for .45 Colt will do in it.

Has anyone tried this?

[bob208]

i used them in my walker colt. they have to be .454 or larger.

[curator]

I use the Lee .456 C&B conical made for the Ruger OA in my Uberti 2nd Dragoon pistol with excellent results. My bore's groove diameter is .455 so the .457 diameter works well. The rebated heel of these boolits measure .456 so they slip nicely into the .456" chambers. I lube them with a 50/50 bee's wax/lard lube and shoot them over 45 grains of Goex FFFg using a dry felt wad between powder and boolit.

[Omnivore]

I use the Lee 200 grain conicals in a '58 Remington with good results. The heel base is an important feature. You'll have a heck of a time loading square base bullets in a percussion revolver. I'd recommend against it. The best results I've gotten were with the Buffalo BallEtt. Its round nose fits the gun's ram, so the bullet isn't distorted so much upon loading, and the base is both heeled (rebated) and slightly hollow. Either should work well in your Dragoon too, so long as the fit is correct.

[Wolfer]

I shoot the lee 452-200 RF in my Remington with all the fffg in can get in the chamber
for around 800 fps. My mold drops at 452 and my cylinders mic @ 450. I had to open
the space under the loading lever to get this bullet to line up with the cylinder. As long as I get the bullet started straight it is fairly accurate. I have managed to take a six point buck and a doe with this combo.

[Good Cheer]

I use the RCBS 45-225-CAV with the truncated cone type nose molded from dead soft lead and size the base and middle bands to slide into the chambers. Leave the front bands big to seal them off. Turns it into a stubby maxie. Holds plenty of lube. I'm certain it could work in dragoons as well as the Walker.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/wandconicals.jpg
My brother and myself have both found the old Lyman bevel base semi-wad cutter #45266 / 452066 to work well in the third model dragoon. No sizing needed due to the excellent long taper on the base.

[John Taylor]

Read someplace many years back about loading these bullets backward, makes a good wad cutter and fast stopper for small game.

[Alan]

George Nonte wrote of using #454424 in C&B revolvers, but you would have to size it carefully to 1) load, and 2) fit the chamber. It is fairly easy to get the Lee conicals to shoot well, although they will hit VERY high even compared to the RB loads.

[Bullet Caster]

What about using conicals in an 1860 SSA L'Pietta? The book calls for a .451 dia. ball. Can I use a 230 grain meant for a .45 acp sized to .451 and load it into the 1860 SSA L'Pietta over 36 grains of FFFg? And where do ya get #10 or #11 caps? I've used both in the past but I cannot find any locally. Does Bass Pro carry cap 'n ball caps? BC

[Alan]

If a .451 ball is correct, you would need .448-.450" conicals to be able to load them. I generally buy caps 1000-5000 at a time online, but Bass Pro, Cabela's, and most local guns stores carry at least a few.

[Good Cheer]

What about using conicals in an 1860 SSA L'Pietta? The book calls for a .451 dia. ball. Can I use a 230 grain meant for a .45 acp sized to .451 and load it into the 1860 SSA L'Pietta over 36 grains of FFFg? And where do ya get #10 or #11 caps? I've used both in the past but I cannot find any locally. Does Bass Pro carry cap 'n ball caps? BC

To get consistent results with conicals you need to have them of dimensions that allow the conical to slip part way into the chamber to secure their initial alignment prior to being pressed the rest of the way in. The back end needs to slip into the chamber and the front end needs to swage in or shear off on the way into the chamber. The Lyman 452066 is the best as-molded slug (no sizing needed) that I've seen.
The problems with most 45ACP or 45LC type molds are:
1-That they are made to have a big tail end and then need to be sized down on the backside to slip into the chamber.
2-That they are made to have a large part of their weight in front of the case mouth and in a percussion revolver that means loss of powder space.

[bob208]

i just looked through my molds and found an old layman that was made for the cap& ball pistols.

it is 452490 . it has a hallow base like a mini. with the front band over size to seal the chamber.

[Bullet Caster]

Thanks, guys for the info. Guess I'll stick to .451 RB. BC

[docone31]

The .451 might be a little small.
You might consider at least .454.

[Bullet Caster]

I have shot the .451 in my 1880 SSA cap n ball and when loading it does cut a small ring off sealing the chamber. I guess next I'll have to get a .451 RB mould. I've never had a chain fire using the .451. And I usually use Spit Ball or Crisco over the loaded chamber not only for lube but for protection against chain firing. It's never happened to me but I've seen chain firing on another's pistol and it was not too pretty. Thanks, BC

[docone31]

Chain fires come from loose caps.
I prefer to get a large ring. This gives me more rifleing potential.
Just as easy to load.

[Omnivore]

It is fairly easy to get the Lee conicals to shoot well, although they will hit VERY high even compared to the RB loads.

I agree with the first part, and other C&B shooters have had good to excelent results with the Lee conicals for C&B. The second bit about not hitting to POA; I have not had that experience with the Lee 450-200-1R in my Pietta Remington. It shoots pretty close to the same POI using the 200 grain conical or round ball.

Same with the Buffalo 180 grain BallEtt. Now there's a mold I'd like to get, if anyone were to make one.

Sixgun Sym; No need to give up. If it's something you want to try, give it a try.

[Omnivore]

I googled "lyman 452490" and that number currently refers to a 255 grain 45 cal gas check bullet with wide meplat.

Hmm; Has anyone tried a gas check style bullet in a C&B revolver without the gas check? The rebated heel, where the GC goes, might slip into the chamber, making for easy loading. The flat point on the 452490 may require a modified loading ram, but that would be interesting if it were to load and shoot OK.

Buffalo Arms in Ponderay, Idaho makes a "heel base" bullet specifically for C&B 44s;
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=160213&CAT=4157
It's a bit spendy, but it looks interesting. Has anyone tried it? The stated .447" diameter would be a bit small, methinks, so I'd hope it drops 'em a bit large. Some of the Uberti chambers are .450", and some people have reamed them to .453" (29/64ths)

[Alan]

I googled "lyman 452490" and that number currently refers to a 255 grain 45 cal gas check bullet with wide meplat.

Hmm; Has anyone tried a gas check style bullet in a C&B revolver without the gas check? The rebated heel, where the GC goes, might slip into the chamber, making for easy loading. The flat point on the 452490 may require a modified loading ram, but that would be interesting if it were to load and shoot OK.

Buffalo Arms in Ponderay, Idaho makes a "heel base" bullet specifically for C&B 44s;
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=160213&CAT=4157
It's a bit spendy, but it looks interesting. Has anyone tried it? The stated .447" diameter would be a bit small, methinks, so I'd hope it drops 'em a bit large. Some of the Uberti chambers are .450", and some people have reamed them to .453" (29/64ths)



Lyman has started re-using cherry numbers.[smilie=b:
They have done that in the past, and the current numbering system only allows for 3 digits, but they aren't anywhere NEAR 999 AFAIK.

Alan

[RhodeHunter]

Chain fires come from loose caps.
I prefer to get a large ring. This gives me more rifleing potential.
Just as easy to load.

My friend and I are awaiting our first BP sixgun. Can you tell me please, how it works that loose caps cause a chain fire? Thanks.

[Omnivore]

Can you tell me please, how it works that loose caps cause a chain fire?

It's very simple; hot gas blasts out from all orifices upon firing. That includes the nipple on the fired chamber. The fired cap breaks open and high pressure, high temp gas blows back into the recoil shield and envelops the rear of the cylinder. Loose caps, in theory, will alow some of that hot gas to get in and light off adjacent chambers.

Now; the chances of that happening are failry low. I've had a loose nipple fall completely off, didn't notice it, and fired the gun with no ill effects. It would of course depend on the location of the open nipple and the distribution of the hot gas behind the cylinder, but the prevailing theory is that loose nipples are at least as much, of not more, responsible for chain fires than a poorly fit ball.

I don't know, but having a proper fit between nipple and cap is a good thing for other reasons, so make sure you have a good fit. A cap that fits too tight will sometimes fail to fire, as the hammer's energy is partially spent seating the cap farther onto the nipple. A cap that's too loose can fall off, or (maybe) result in a cross-fire.

Some people have been pinching their loose-fitting caps so they'll stay on, and have been doing it for years with no problems, but why bother with all the pinching if you can get a good fit with a little bit of experimentation?

Remington caps tend to fit more loosely than the same number CCI cap, so you try different size and brand combinations and find the best fit. I've found that the Treso brand "Ampco" nipples, with a Remington number 10 cap on a Pietta Colt revolver is a perfect fit. Also; some people will remove the nipples, chuck them in a lathe or even just a power drill, and turn them down with a fine file or some sandpaper to re-size them. Nipple length is somewhat important too, so do the modification with that in mind. If you go too small, then shoten them to tighten the fit (they're tapered) make sure the hammer doesn't bottom out on the frame before it strikes the cap. I've never mod'ed a nipple, being very satisfied with the Ampco/Remington 10 fit, but if you want to do it on the cheap there's certainly nothing wrong with modifying a nipple.

Way off OP topic here. This is a frequent subject, so you can find several threads on it if you do a search.

Oh; and always keep in mind never to have any pody part in front of the cylinder when firing. That way if a cross- fire occurs you probably don't get hurt.

[Alan]

There is a LOT of flame coming out of a nipple when a caplock gun fires. (I just love it when the white-hot cap fragments land on my finger) If a cap on an unfired chamber is loose, is gapped on the sides from being pinched, or is missing altogether, that flame can find its way into the nipple. KA-Boom.

[Alan]

I also cringe at SASS matches when the stages that required a revolver reload allowed the cap'n'ball guys to load 6 and leave 1 cylinder uncapped. Capping the empty nipple and firing that chamber counted as their 1 cartridge reload. Haven't been SASS in a while, so I don't know if they still do this.

Alan

[Mike 56]

I shoot .454 balls in my cap and ball revolvers they fit much better than .451 balls except my Walker i shoot .457 balls. I tumble lube my Lee conical bullets with lee alox lube i don't wads or over ball lube with them. I have a trick for sizing the conical bullet heels i remove a cylinder from one of my guns and size the heels in the cylinder it makes them much easeyer to load. #10 Remington caps fit my revolvers the best but i can get #11 CCI caps for about half the price. I made a crimper to resize #11 CCI caps to fit the nipples. I drilled a hole in a pair of dollar store side cutters.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg95/51colt/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3935.jpg