Restocking a Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903

[Brithunter]

This one has been waiting a long time but really needs a nice new stock to finish it off. The original has been rather severely altered I assume for a child or small women. When I brought it for what I considered a good price I did not expect this to be a major stumbling block but I was wrong.

When shooting it the cases split and it was soon discovered that the barrel liner was out of spec and the chamber was not in fact round but lobed so it was put away and mulled over for a couple of years until by a stroke of luck after having Ron Wharton look at it and thing of options for a re-barrel. Ron found a new "in the white" ready to fit Steyr barrel in 6.5x54MS so it was purchased and due to Ron's already committed work load the rifle went to Lewis Potter of Potter & Walker who fitted the barrel submitted to proof and got it blacked. The rilfe now needs a new stock to fiish it off and here is why:-

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/2794253/42660682.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/2794253/42660529.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/2794253/42660082.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/2794253/34057334.jpg
I shall also hopefully get some much better scope mounts as these just look cheap even though they work.

The stock does not fit well and is far too short of me. Of course finding a part inlet stock for a Schoenauer is almost impossible. Great American list one but sadly their reputation is rather spotty to poor at best so am reluctant to trust it to them and I have never tried to inlet a rifle before so the Schoenauer is probably not the best one to try as a first especially a the rifle is no longer original I might as well make it a nice classic styled modern stalking rifle with nice wood but sort of based upon this classice look:-

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/246725/14055494.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/246725/14773572.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/246725/14051870.jpg

The comb would need to be straighter on top, less drop at heel, to suit scope use but it gives and idea. With the typical British short fore stock with rounded tip and either the rounded "Prince of Wales" pistol grip or the more common flat bottomed with with or without cap.

As I want a nice stock with good figure I need someone who can do it justice ................................................ So any suggestions?

Like me the rifle is currently in the UK but we should be able to sort out shipping for repair and restoration without undue problems from a registered dealer here to a FFL in the US.

[Bret4207]

The very first thing I would do is get a set of drastically lower scope mounts. See where the comb needs to be then. To my my eye that's a fine stock to start with. I'd consider a recoil pad to lengthen it and seeing what that would do for me as far as scope use went. I'd even consider a lace on comb/cheekpiece before going for a new stock.

If you must have a new stock, then I'd look through "Rifle" magazine or any of the higher class magazines, do some research and get some quotes and pics of finished work. I think you're looking at quite a piece of change for a really nice stock these days.

[rbertalotto]

Because of how the bolt is designed. lower mounts are not possible. This rifle is not the best candidate for a scope. But that said, I'm in the process of building a set of "Claw" rings to go with the mounts that were already on the rifle when I got it.

BTW, one of the smoothest actions you will ever lay your hands on.

[Dan Cash]

I have a nice Henry Atkin built Manlicher in .375x2 1/2 inch Flanged like the lower one in your photos. Unfortunately it needs restocking too. Good luck on finding someone who can do a credible job of it. Good luck as they are wonderful rifles.

[Reg]

You could pay someone ( a lot ) to restock the rifle but why? It's really a nice old rifle showing very classic lines. There are those who would pay a lot of money to have it restocked just exactly as it is right now. Also, thats not too shabby a piece of wood.
I think I would go with a recoil pad , something like a classic leather covered pad or something quite like that and for shooting, a lace on cheek piece should get your head up there where you can see the scope.
Or you could just sell it to someone who would appreciate it as is and go out and buy what you are really looking for.
To restock this in more modern lines is about like taking a fine old schutzen and chopping it up and making a .226 Whiz Bang or what ever out of it stocked in Zebra wood.

:dung_hits_fan:

[Brithunter]

Sadly the photos don't show the butchery to the barrel channel etc and as I have so much money invested in it now what was a cheap project has become anything but so we might as well complete the job and finish or off properly to make it once again a best sporting rifle along these lines:-

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/1350773/5677742.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/Sat4thDec2004RoeDoe1.jpg

but with the more typical shorter British fore stock.

Now as mentioned due to the split receiver bridge and the bolt handle. Even though the Schoenauer project rifle has the butter knif handle rather than round:-

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/246725/36532700.jpg

One cannot mount the scope low down. You will also note that the scope on the other rifle which is fitted with EAWSwing mounts by Ernst Apel is not mounted as low as most Americans would have it however due to the difference in shooting stance and styles it works perfectly for me.

[Brithunter]

I have a nice Henry Atkin built Manlicher in .375x2 1/2 inch Flanged like the lower one in your photos. Unfortunately it needs restocking too. Good luck on finding someone who can do a credible job of it. Good luck as they are wonderful rifles.

Hi Dan,

Sorry I should have remembered you had the Mannlicher just as I should have replied to your letter. Will have to catch up with you soon. Things have not been good in 2011. I am hoping that we may get the details of one who can do this re-stocking work. I will just have to save up the funds to pay for it now.


KP aka BH

[Brithunter]

The very first thing I would do is get a set of drastically lower scope mounts. See where the comb needs to be then. To my my eye that's a fine stock to start with. I'd consider a recoil pad to lengthen it and seeing what that would do for me as far as scope use went. I'd even consider a lace on comb/cheekpiece before going for a new stock.

If you must have a new stock, then I'd look through "Rifle" magazine or any of the higher class magazines, do some research and get some quotes and pics of finished work. I think you're looking at quite a piece of change for a really nice stock these days.

Sadly Bret,

We do not have access to those magazines here. The project already stands me at around $1,000 USD with original purchase price, new barrel fitting, proofing then blacking so as we have what almost amounts to a new rifle built of a pre 1924 action we might as well finish it off properly. I decided some time back, several years back actually, that it would not be a restoration in the true word as that implies putting it back to original and too much has been altered over the decades on this rifle for that to really be feasible. For instance I did not have the barrel band lug re-fitted for the Mannlicher take down feature and the stock fitted is not the original as it's not a take down and the rifle was originally a take down.

Hence the desire to make it a "best" stalking rifle along the lines of the Rigby Mannlicher or the Medwell & Perrett I posted photos of. The last Mannlicher had no other name apart from Steyr on it. That one resides in the US and has done so for about a dozen years now and hs I understand been responsible for the demise of several Whitetail deer there.

Due to the way the metal butt plate in inletted just fitting a recoil pad is not an easy option and would require more length to be cut off and that would look awful as it's short enough as it is. As I said I will be changing those horrible see through mounts:-

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/2794253/42660377.jpg

for something a bit better. The scope has yet to be decided upon. The old Bushnell in the photos is fitted to a Husqvarna Model 46 now but I have several other scopes that would be suitable just which one and size has yet to be determined.

[Bret4207]

Because of how the bolt is designed. lower mounts are not possible. This rifle is not the best candidate for a scope. But that said, I'm in the process of building a set of "Claw" rings to go with the mounts that were already on the rifle when I got it.

BTW, one of the smoothest actions you will ever lay your hands on.

Ah, split bridge. My bad.

[sbowers]

I rebarreled one of these rifles about 3 years ago to 6mmAI and had to move and lower the bolt handel and build a pad for the luepold bar and the restock it. Here are a few pictures. http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt183/sbowers5/garys6mmAI002.jpg http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt183/sbowers5/garys6mmAI002.jpg http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt183/sbowers5/garys6mmAI004.jpg http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt183/sbowers5/garys6mmAI003.jpg
Steve

[Brithunter]

Very nice ....................................... but not what I am after for mine. But that sure is nice work.

[Brithunter]

Well the hunt continues :roll: the gunsmith is a chap in Oregon I contacted who had done a nice custom build on a Greek Mannlicher Schoenauer won't take any new clients on now. So I tried a chap here in the UK who does stock work and restorations but once I picked myself up off the floor at the prices for fitting a semi inletted blank ................................................ how about $1100 USD for fitting and finishing a semi inletted blank :shock:.

So it's back to the drawing board.

The only place I am aware of right now who can supply a semi inletted blank for the Mannlicher Schoenauer is Great American Gun Stocks and frankly I have heard a few too many horror stories about them so for now back on the back burner goes this one.

Looks like I will have to practice by doing the P-14 BSA sporter.

Have e-mailed Boyds to see if it would be possible to get one of their classic stocks with no inlet cut and fit the Schoenauer into that. Will have to wait for a reply now.

[justashooter]

Because of how the bolt is designed. lower mounts are not possible. This rifle is not the best candidate for a scope. But that said, I'm in the process of building a set of "Claw" rings to go with the mounts that were already on the rifle when I got it.

BTW, one of the smoothest actions you will ever lay your hands on.

left offset for left eye alignment is an old trick that works well on these guns.

[sbowers]

Richards-Micro-Fit make semi-inletted stocks for these rifles the one I posted is from Richards and you can see for yourself that it is a very very nicely figured piece of wood. I can also do the inletting for you if you can't find anyone close to where you live.
Steve

[Brithunter]

Thank you for pointing that out to me.............................. yes I had missed it.

Also for your kind offer however as I believe your in the US that is not possible due to the shipping regulations etc.

So I shall gather the tools I require as right now I don't have the right sort having only three bevel edge wood chisels and a spoke shave along with a couple of wood planes oh yes and a Dremmel.................... So my next step is to get some tools suitable for doing the inletting then get a cheap stock and practice on that before attempting the Mannlicher on a reasonable stock.

[Hardcast416taylor]

A friend of mine, yes I do have a friend! He has a similar stock problem with an MS 1903 he found in the back of his huge gun safe. He bought several estates of firearms some years ago and just put them all in the safe and forgot about them. The rifle is a WW 2 trophy bring back in my estimation. It is European in all stock respects. However, the rifle had a garage gunsmith notch out the left side of the stock then mount an Griffin & Howe side mount scope mount and put an Lyman 2 1/2X Alaskan scope on it. The original claw scope mounts are still on the reciever. With the value of these rifles continually on the rise (check the current Blue book of prices) it will cost almost as much to repair it as it is worth.Robert

[Brithunter]

A friend of mine, yes I do have a friend! He has a similar stock problem with an MS 1903 he found in the back of his huge gun safe. He bought several estates of firearms some years ago and just put them all in the safe and forgot about them. The rifle is a WW 2 trophy bring back in my estimation. It is European in all stock respects. However, the rifle had a garage gunsmith notch out the left side of the stock then mount an Griffin & Howe side mount scope mount and put an Lyman 2 1/2X Alaskan scope on it. The original claw scope mounts are still on the reciever. With the value of these rifles continually on the rise (check the current Blue book of prices) it will cost almost as much to repair it as it is worth.Robert

Shame on that but the Blue Book has no reference here. As I am not in the US it means nothing.

Right now I am looking at a few tools, chisels etc and strangely enough there is a very good wood carving chisel maker not far from me whom I have done bits of work for in the past. Will see if their range has some suitable. Might take a ride over to their factory shop soon. OH the maker is Ashley Iles tools.

Edit:- Just went to their site and low and behold the head of this "spring hammer" is one I made some years back:-

http://www.ashleyiles.turningtools.co.uk/factory/factory.html

That was heavy work as it was literally carved from a solid block.

[waksupi]

I will give the same advice to you, that I do all other newbie gun stockers.
Take your Dremel tool outside of your shop. Grasp the cord at it's furthest end, and swing it as rapidly as possible over your head. When you have reached maximum speed and velocity release the cord, and allow the Dremel to go as far away from the gun in question as possible.
This exercise will prevent many unwanted gouges, gaps, and blood shed. The difference between chisels, gouges, and a Dremel, is that the chisels and gouges permit you to make mistakes much slower, than when using a Dremel.

[Brithunter]

I will give the same advice to you, that I do all other newbie gun stockers.
Take your Dremel tool outside of your shop. Grasp the cord at it's furthest end, and swing it as rapidly as possible over your head. When you have reached maximum speed and velocity release the cord, and allow the Dremel to go as far away from the gun in question as possible.
This exercise will prevent many unwanted gouges, gaps, and blood shed. The difference between chisels, gouges, and a Dremel, is that the chisels and gouges permit you to make mistakes much slower, than when using a Dremel.

:D I see you view them much as I do.. They are useful for some things like I cut a small patch of rust from the sill of the car for welding with it as the space was too small to get into with the angle grinder. So far in a couple of years ownership we have used it a few times.

[robroy]

Yes it's good to see you don't need to be told to step away from the Dremel. They take irreplaceable wood out much too quickly

[Reg]

The only thing I could ever add to Waksupi's most excellent advice is before you swing it out of sight is to perhaps stomp on it or better yet, crush the darned thing in a vise.
They have damaged far more guns than they ever fixed.


:drinks:

[Brithunter]

OK I think there is some confusion here. The rifle I have is a commercial sporting riflr with the spring bolt hold down latch. It was never a military rifle and I do not need nor want a military style stock. It will be a stalking (Hunting) rifle just as it was originally made to be but an updated one with stock suitable for scope use as well the irons.

As so much has been altered since it was made there is no real way to put it back to original so I shall build it as a rifle that one would be proud to carry in the field after deer.

We have now got two possibly three places that might be able to supply a semi inletted stock. How much we wish to spend on the wood and what type of wood is now the choice or issue if you like.

As the people who fit stocks for a living want so much for their work it looks like I will have to learn on a cheaper stock and easier rifle to fit up and then do the job myself. It also appears that most of the suppliers have about a 12 week lead time for either of the stocks so it's going to be the summer before much can happen now.

Thank you all for your ideas, suggestions and help.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Yes it's good to see you don't need to be told to step away from the Dremel. They take irreplaceable wood out much too quickly


My simple, like my mind, homey advice on using power tools on metal and wood parts. "You can`t grow back the wood/metal you removed trying to save a minute of time"!Robert

[Brithunter]

Well if I can get the vertical head dad made some 35 years ago back in working order it may be useful to taking out the meat of the stock for the magazine and if I can get a couple of ball cutters even the barrel channel. It fits into where the steady bar for the arbour support on the horizontal mill making it a vertical mill with more head room than the vertical head which firs the arbour taper cone on the column.

Some "Power" tools are very useful :bigsmyl2:

[andremajic]

The only thing I could ever add to Waksupi's most excellent advice is before you swing it out of sight is to perhaps stomp on it or better yet, crush the darned thing in a vise.
They have damaged far more guns than they ever fixed.


:drinks:

Just to be the devil's advocate here, the one tool that has ruined more guns than any other has been the screwdriver, but they're still used and indispensable.

It's HOW a tool is used that will cause the problem!

For instance, a foredom tool is just a fancy dremel with a flexible shaft, but they're used by jewelers AND gunsmiths! A dremel tool with different speed settings and a flex-shaft is the poor mans foredom tool.

Gouges, chisels and a blacking lamp are definetely better for inletting though.

Andy.

[Bret4207]

Dremels aren't all bad. They sure make some things a lot easier. Just gotta THINK AHEAD. I'm still learning how to do that...