EAA Witness

[Bret4207]

My wife wants a handgun, specifically an auto and it has to be "silver". So I found a primo 40S+W Witness for a little over $250.00. I know some one here has talked about their Witness before, so help me out. Barrels and magazines are apparantly still availble to switch to 9mm or 45 for instance. I also see a 22 LR option. Does this require a different slide assy? Does each barrel change require the whole slide/barrel assy? Whats your overall opinion of the Witness? I love the way it feels and she's a long legged 5'10" real type woman, not one of those little fru-fru types, so she should have big enough hands for a full size auto. Thanks guys.

[9.3X62AL]

Buckshot has one, and his was originally for Donna to use as a duty sidearm I believe. He just got another 45 ACP top end for it recently.

This being a CZ-75 clone--I REALLY like my CZ-75B in 40 S&W. CZ has a 22 LR top end for their pistols, dunno how or if it would swap on to the EAA receiver.

[scrapcan]

I have a springfield p9 9mm that is parts from tanfoglio and assembled and fitted by Springfield, no longer made. A few years ago I had a barrel split, that is another story. I got an eaa witness barrel as a replacement, dropped in and has been running since. While looking for the barrel I learned a bit about the eaa.

As I recall there are two frame sizes. The 9mm/40 frame and the 10mm/45 frame. I think they are standard (9mm/40) and full size (10mm/45). The slides will fit either, but magazines will not if I remember correctly. The other thing is I have seen many people with a 40s&w change the barrel to a 9mm and run with the same slide. They have had very good luck with it, I do not have a 40 slide and barrel so have no experience.

EAA has a pretty good website that shows their wares. They are also pretty descent to talk to on the phone. I like my P9 and would not hesitate to own an EAA if the chance arose. Actually have thought about a conversion to 40 but keep spending the pesos else where.

From the EAA questions site (sorry ahd to go find it)
http://www.eaacorp.com/questions.html

IV) Can I convert my 9mm Witness to 45ACP?

A) Steel frame 9mm or 40sw Witness pistols can only be converted to 9mm or 40sw or 22lr
B) Steel frame 38super, 45acp, 10mm can be converted to: 9mm, 40sw, 38super, 45acp, 10mm or 22lr
C) Any Witness P can be converted to 9mm, 40sw, 45acp, 38 super
D) Any Witness PS can be converted to 9mm, 40sw or 22lr
E) Any Witness PC can be converted to 9mm, 40sw or 22lr

[Bret4207]

Thanks guys. I've been looking around and find mostly good opinions of the Witness, and some that are beyond good. The relationship to CZ and some other guns has been mentioned. I think I'm safe geting it for her. I mean, jeeze, it IS silver.....

[lefty_red]

I shot an EAA "set" that included the 45ACP and 38SUPER and 22LR. All kits worked great and was as easy to swap as my daughters G19 to the AA 22lr kit. I wish I got it now!

Get the 22lr kit for it!

Jerry

[obssd1958]

I have two Witness pistols. The first is a .45ACP "Large Frame" compact model. The second is a 10mm "Large Frame" full size model.

The "Large Frame" models come in .38 super, 10mm, and .45ACP. They also offer conversions (slide, barrel, guide rod, recoil spring, and magazine) for .22 rimfire, 9mm, and .40S&W to fit the big frame. The large frame can also be found in both full size and compact, which is determined by the length of the grip frame and dust cover. The compact has a 3 5/8" barrel and a maximum ammo capacity of 8 rounds in the magazine for .45 ACP. The full size has a 4 1/2" barrel and a maximum ammo capacity of 10 rounds in the magazine for the same .45 ACP. Of course the slide length matches the barrel length ( unless you're like me and swap a 4 1/2" ported barrel into your compact slide!! Very accurate!):Fire:
They also offer long slide (4 3/4" barrel) and hunter (6" barrel plus single action only trigger - .45 ACP and 10mm only) models.

The "Small Frame" pistols are available in 9mm and .40 S&W, with conversion kits for .22 rimfire also available. They also have both full size and compact models.

All of the above was researched before I bought the first of the 2 Witness's that I have, and it was also before the polymer, or "P" series guns were popular. I am not sure what is or isn't "swappable" on the "P" series guns, but the steel guns are limited as described above.

Both of mine are in the Wonder Finish, which is a nitrided or "tennifer" finish that is very hard and a matte silver or gray.

I bought a .40 S&W barrel for the 10mm from savvysurvivor.com (I don't think Alex is monitoring the site anymore, but it still has a lot of good info). The .40 barrel is just a straight swap with the 10mm barrel and then load the 10mm magazine up with .40 ammo - and :Fire:

I am currently looking for a .38 SA top end for the full size frame and then I would be a happy camper as far as calibers for these two pistols!!

Tpr. Bret - I would highly recommend the Witness pistols. I enjoy the two I have and have had ZERO issues with either gun.


http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m9/obssd1958/shooting/100_3728.jpg
Witness large frame full size model 10mm

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m9/obssd1958/shooting/100_1484.jpg
Witness large frame compact model .45 ACP

Let me know if you need any more info, since I can see I kind'a rambled a bit here![smilie=1:

Don

[JSH]

You guys are a bad influence on a fellow. I looked through the link above until the early hours. I have been looking for a 45 for bullseye, but also wanted to use the same gun for action pistol game here.

As to the 45 issue, I want one with a good trigger and good sights, but also have access to whistles and bells.
The action pistol would not require the 45, so I figure with the good prices on the 40 stuff now I could go that way. I hate chasing brass.

"Let me know if you need any more info, since I can see I kind'a rambled a bit here!

Don"


Or any one else, I am all ears. What do you guys think of the trigger?

Jeff

[45r]

I had one and it seemed to pinch my trigger finger between the frame and bottom of trigger.I traded it in for a kimber 45 and the kimber is very accurate and I like it a lot more.

[JSH]

A good friend of mine bought a kimber a while back. He has not been very pleased with it from the get go, nothing but problems. He has it working better but it is still no Gold Cup. I forget what model this is but it is any upper end one. I have heard rave reviews on the Kimbers, most everyone talks very highly of them. It just doesn't fit into my budget. I am hesitant on autos to begin with, I am more of a wheel gun type

I would think the trigger pinch could be fixed fairly easy?
Jeff

[Buckshot]

............Tpr Brett, yeah I have one as Deputy Al mentioned. It's in 38 Super which have a mag capacity of 18 rounds, zounds! Of course here in the land of Kornfusion we're limited to just 10 rnds, but my two 18 rounders are grandfathered.

My wife is no shooter and even a worse pistol shot then me and she can handle it well with factory ammo. I think like the 9mm the recoil impulse form the 38 Super is short, and sharp allowing you to get back on target quick. The 38 Super comes with a 16 lb factory spring IIRC. I bought a spring pack from Wolff that goes 14, 18, 20, and 22 lbs. They also have a pack that starts low at like 10 lbs and goes to 18.

The original pistol was astoundingly accurate for me. So much so with the Lyman 147gr FNBB that I shot it almost exclusively. I'm talking 1 to 1-1/4" 5 round groups at 25 yards off sandbags. That was at 1250 fps. Quite snappy! Glad I bought the spring pack as the factory spring just wasn't enough and I think a 24 lb'er would be better yet.

Since I had the Lee 356-125RN mould (for some reason) I cast some of those up in WW and loaded them over weensy loads of W231. BTW, the groove is .356" so I size to .357". I cut 2 coils off the factory spring and had a nice accurate load where the empties would just roll out the ejection port, across your knuckles and then onto the table. With hot loads it flings them off into zu-zu land somewhere.

This is another good load:

http://www.fototime.com/94E23D0AC147FC1/standard.jpg

This is the RCBS 38-162 SWC and the load is written there on the box. Yup, it'll feed SWC's fine. I had bought a conversion kit in 45ACP some couple years ago and never could get it to shoot worth a rancid fart. Of course I was spoiled by the immediate good manners of the Super, but come on! Then I discovered the barrel had an internal issue. You couldn't feel it with a patch but looking down the barrel you could see rings. Not bulges as the outside was perfect. It was like maybe the button stopped and started again when it was being rifled?

I really have no idea what was up, but my SOP is to keep putting things off, and I put off telling EAA about it until I felt too much time had gone by so a couple months ago I just bought a barrel. Oh yeah the slide I bought with it first go round was the Starvel (silver) finish or whatever they call it. Nice piece of work. As the other guys have said, with the large steel frame version you can get the 9mm, 38 Super, 40 S&W, 10mm, 45ACP, and 22 LR converisons. Plus they have a bunch of other golly gee doo dads for those so enamoured of racegun pistol stuff.

So the new barrel came and I threw together 50 rounds of something or other. I don't remember what it was now but sumuvagun if it didn't shoot! Not like the 38 Super barrel but all in the black at 25 yards offhand, and with just knocked together pull it out of your nose load. So far, those 50 rounds are all that have gone through the new 45 barrel.

The conversions come with the barrel, recoil spring and guide, slide and a magazine. I paid $264 for the 45 ACP one. The plain barrel in 45 ACP I bought was an even $100 (4.5"). I like the 38 Super cartridge a whole bunch, BTW. It will really race out there and tag the 200 meter gong without holding your front sight on some passing cloud over the berm :-)

..................Buckshot

[obssd1958]

JSH,

Triggers are a really personal matter (no, not like some people and their sheep!), just subjective. I really like both of my Witness's, and of course prefer the single action pull over the DA - but, that being said, the DA seems to be pretty smooth over the length of the pull. SA still has some distance to pull, but breaks over crisp.

As far as pinch, I use a pretty high grip and have never had the trigger pinch my finger - even competing with my crazy buddy trying to see who can empty 10 rounds first!!

Ultimately, there are a lot of accessories available to make the pistol whatever you want it to be - even expensive!

http://www.savvysurvivor.com/gearrevewtangfoglio_witness_series_pistol.htm
This page has some great info for you, and near the bottom is a link to some gunsmithing articles that might answer your question better about the trigger.


Don

[EWOK]

I'v egot one and it always shot low, filed down the front to a real low level but it still shoots low, haven't shoot it a while.

[oso]

Has to be "silver"? Would silver bullets be good enough? Is this going to be a carry gun? I have a Steel Full Size Witness in 38SA and a Steel Compact in 9mm but my full size 5'8" wife prefers her Polymer Compact in 38SA with the 9mm conversion for its lighter weight. (We found that the longer 38SA magazine preferred 9mm loads at max COL for reliable feeding.) It might be nice if your wife could get to handle the different models before purchase.

[walltube]

Tpr. Bret, I do not think you or your Dearly Beloved will be disappointed.

I have a .45ACP Lg. frame and the 9mm, both 'silver" and are excellent shooters. The nine sports a Hogue grip. I recommend the Hogue. No Hogues are available for the Lg. frame EAA last time I looked.

FWIW, my LEO daughter preffered my .45 EAA to her service Glock .45. Better grip she says on the EAA imparting better control in rapid fire, improved retention, and the 'half-cock' or 'cocked & locked' feature. The latter is of course absolutely verboten in her Dep't.

Good luck whatever your choosing,

Wt.

[Bret4207]

I'm not giving her any chances. Last time she looked at guns she wanted a stainless (silver to her) Hi Power or a stainless PPK. Apparently she wasn't shopping by price.

[walltube]

I'm not giving her any chances. Last time she looked at guns she wanted a stainless (silver to her) Hi Power or a stainless PPK. Apparently she wasn't shopping by price.

Think she'll accept a silver lame' holster as a trade-off? :)

My Janie will not part with her s'steel SP101. Other than being "pretty" the low-to-no maintainance of SS has its' practical appeal. A must in our high humidity climate.

Sheesh! There ought to be price tag trauma treatment centers available these days.

Wt.

[JSH]

Don thanks for the link. A good read.
I see they offer a SA trigger. Anyone have any knowledge of this animal? I did notice on one of the many articles I read, that the trigger spring is an SOB to fool with. They said it worked somthing like a scissor spring of some kind.
Do these have a standard type rifling, or are that polyganol type rifling?
I figure to buy into one of these before the summer is over. I am checking on new and used prices. I have seen some pretty cheap prices on used ones, but I think in this area pistol prices have jumped a lot since they passed the CC law.
Jeff

[Buckshot]

...............JSH, they have standard lands and grooves.

...............Buckshot

[JSH]

Well, I have been on the look out for a Witness Match. They seem to have dried up in this area or used ones are priced at MSRP. I don't know how up to date EAA's site is, but their prices sure don't fall anywhere close to what I have found. I have heard several"stories" on what is going on, Remington supposidly bought them out. I wouldn't not get concerened but have heard that in a round about way from several individuals and sources that do not have a connection to each other. I did see one of the post in the above, the geny had a considerable wait to get his order. Maybe just slow?
I think I am going to email them and see what they might have to say.
Jeff

[obssd1958]

Jeff,

Take a look here: http://cgi.ebay.com/EAA-match-40-Cal_W0QQitemZ290099210092QQcategoryZ73946QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

This upper has been listed at least twice before, with no bidders at $299.

Add that (with a mag change to .40) to this 9mm listed on www.gunbroker.com,
Auction # 68814075 ,
and you should have a pretty good combo!

Also, if you don't want the 9mm upper, you could probably get @150 to 200 back by selling it.

Just some suggestions. I'm not connected to either of the items I listed above, I just follow stuff having to do with the witness pistols!

If you want to shoot the breeze about this stuff and pick my brain in more detail, send me an e-mail or PM with your phone number and a good time to call, or I'll send you mine.

Take care,

Don

Oh, and Tpr. Bret, sorry we hijacked your thread, but the same offer is open to you!!

[robertbank]

HI

Go for the Witness. I have the Mdoel "L" in 9MM and now .40cal. with the conversion kit. Great guns. Mine could use some trigger work but other than that I am very pleased.

Take Care

Bob

[Buckshot]

................I only paid $264 for my 45 ACP upper (slide, bbl, recoil spring & guide and magazine).

...............Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

OUCH! The CZ "Kadet" 22 LR conversion kit is $345 on the CZ site, and includes only 1 magazine. Spare mags are $35. That's most of a $400 bill.

[JSH]

I posted arelier I had emailed them with some questions that were not covered in there FAQ. The finally got back to me, only to give me a phone #. Well I called it recording said to leave a message and they would get back with me at such and such time, well I am at work then, so that is no good. Tried another extension then another, still no living, breathing body.
Dunno why they couldn't forward my email to the invisible man.
Jeff

[Buckshot]

..............I don't believe EAA is much of an organization. Or at least not what they used to be, and they don't need a huge staff by any means for merchandising the few items they carry.

............Buckshot

[Scrounger]

..............I don't believe EAA is much of an organization. Or at least not what they used to be, and they don't need a huge staff by any means for merchandising the few items they carry.

............Buckshot

But they used to have the most gorgeous set of twin blonds for their advertising photos... I give them huge credit for that.