KIK Powder

[Boz330]

You guys that have been shooting the KIK, are you finding that it likes compression or not? I'm down to my last case of Swiss and thought that I might give KIK a try especially at the price. Just looking for a place to start, maybe save a little trouble.

Bob

[Don McDowell]

Boz from what I've used of it, it doesn't really seem to care. You will be amazed at how clean it shoots.

[RMulhern]

If you take the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle magazine....go back to the 2006 issues and find the article by Dan Pharis concerning heavy compression of BP! I've found that the KIK powder likes very little compression with PP and a .240" thick lube cookie.:bigsmyl2:[smilie=s:

[waksupi]

If you take the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle magazine....go back to the 2006 issues and find the article by Dan Pharis concerning heavy compression of BP! I've found that the KIK powder likes very little compression with PP and a .240" thick lube cookie.:bigsmyl2:[smilie=s:

Dan hangs out on American Long Rifles quite a bit, you could ask him if he has any updates. Dan has his poop in a pile, as a rule. One of the first places I stayed in Montana thirty some years ago, was on his family's ranch down at Big Timber.

[hydraulic]

Don McDowell gave me a pound of 2F out at the Sagebrush shoot last August, and I just got around to loading and shooting it. I have the same situation; I'm on my last pound of Swiss and have to do something soon. I loaded it the same as I did the Swiss: 72 grs. under the RCBS 530 gr. bullet with an oatmeal box wad compressed .250. It shoots to the same point of aim and the same accuracy as Swiss in my .45 2 1/10 and like Don says, I'm surprised at how clean it shoots. I'm going to order a case of it.

[Don McDowell]

Charlie glad it worked for you. See you on or about the 4th of May at the Hoffland range.

[John Boy]

Boz, those that have been shooting the 2010 lot of KIK grades of powder have been pleased with it. This includes myself.
Here's some reading material about the powder:
http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/forum/index.php?topic=106.0
http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/forum/index.php?topic=107.0
http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/forum/index.php?topic=108.0

[cajun shooter]

The Kik Lot #3910 that is being sold by Powder Inc has shown great results as tested by W30wcf also. He posted a string of videos that shows his results with the lever action rifle in 44-40.
I know this is not a BPCR round or rifle but it does show that this powder is doing well across the board.
It has been impressive enough for me to purchase this powder. I have loaded ammo but due to health problems have no test work myself to post.
Thanks for taking time to post your screen test John Boy.Later David

[Boz330]

Thanks guys that is what I was looking for.

Bob

[Rafe Covington]

The Kik Lot #3910 that is being sold by Powder Inc has shown great results as tested by W30wcf also. He posted a string of videos that shows his results with the lever action rifle in 44-40.
I know this is not a BPCR round or rifle but it does show that this powder is doing well across the board.
It has been impressive enough for me to purchase this powder. I have loaded ammo but due to health problems have no test work myself to post.
Thanks for taking time to post your screen test John Boy.Later David

I always considered the 44 WCF a blackpowder cartridge, guess I was misinformed.

Rafe

[Don McDowell]

Rafe I'm going to take a WAG here and bet that David was talking about a BPCR round such as for Sillouette, Buffalo gong matches etc.....

[Rafe Covington]

OK, I guess I misunderstood what he was trying to say, thanks for the info.

Rafe:drinks:

[cajun shooter]

Don, First I thank you for the stand in and second you are dead on the nail head.

[RMulhern]

The Kik Lot #3910 that is being sold by Powder Inc has shown great results as tested by W30wcf also. He posted a string of videos that shows his results with the lever action rifle in 44-40.
I know this is not a BPCR round or rifle but it does show that this powder is doing well across the board.
It has been impressive enough for me to purchase this powder. I have loaded ammo but due to health problems have no test work myself to post.
Thanks for taking time to post your screen test John Boy.Later David

cajun shooter

Hmmm...I do believe the Lot # is 2910!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!:idea::-P

[Don McDowell]

Anytime David. Happy New Year to you.

[Chicken Thief]

http://www.laflinandrand.com/madmonk/KIK.pdf

[hydraulic]

Don: Loaded up the rest of the Swiss and have 250 rounds. Waiting in breathless anticipation for May.

[RMulhern]

Don: Loaded up the rest of the Swiss and have 250 rounds. Waiting in breathless anticipation for May.

IMO...it doesn't really pay to load up ammo months prior to a match! The brass will stress relieve itself over that period of time and you'll have inconsistent neck tension big time!:violin::(

FWIW!!

[Don McDowell]

:mrgreen: Rick hush.... We need all the help we can get, to get ahead of that Hydraulic character. That man can shoot and shoot quite well:drinks:
Charles we'll look forward to seeing you then.

[RMulhern]

hydraulic

Note:

Please pay NO ATTENTION to my previous posting!!:drinks: I don't know what I'm talking about! Been sippin in the FAMOUS GROUSE!!

[John Boy]

Hmmm...I do believe the Lot # is 2910!
Rick, the case of 2010 KIK cans I have, have a lot number of 3910 ... September 3, 2010

And I agree with you ... not to load the rounds way in advance. I've had reloads that were perfectly seated out touching the lands. When I got to the range, instead of thumb pressure they had to be seated with a seater to get them to chamber

[RMulhern]

John Boy

Maybe those didn't come from Powder Inc.! Jerry told me all his stock had the same Lot #!!

???????

[Jon K]

[QUOTE=RMulhern;1525744]cajun shooter

Hmmm...I do believe the Lot # is 2910!

Rick,

Is lot# that critical? Have you found it to change a lot from lot to lot.

Getting ready to try a cse, but don't want to worry about different lots shooting differently, and don't want to screen & sock.

Jon

[RMulhern]

[QUOTE=RMulhern;1525744]cajun shooter

Hmmm...I do believe the Lot # is 2910!

Rick,

Is lot# that critical? Have you found it to change a lot from lot to lot.

Getting ready to try a cse, but don't want to worry about different lots shooting differently, and don't want to screen & sock.

Jon

cs

If I have to S&S....I'll quit and take up mumbley-peg! It might make a difference but then again....possibly not much but one never knows if there's going to be any 'kicking and scratching'....until the cats in the bag!!:killingpc[smilie=b:

[kokomokid]

My kik from powder inc is 3910 but I havent shot enough to have an opinion other than it sure aint swiss.

[Boz330]

My kik from powder inc is 3910 but I havent shot enough to have an opinion other than it sure aint swiss.

Can you expound on that a little?

Bob

[kokomokid]

We got a few cans of kik with our last order of powder due to cost and reports from some of the top shooters here. It is true BP with lots of fines and dust (sneeze alot when I drop tube it). Volume measure that gives me 71gr 1 1/2 swiss is 66gr kik 2f by weight. But it will drop tube to a smaller volume than the swiss. It shoots ok but Im still trying for the 1moa load with it.

[cajun shooter]

Rick, My powder came from Powder Inc. and it's definitely 3910.
I called John Boy when I received it and checked the lot number with him and he verified that was the same lot that he had screened and received such great results.
The powder that John W30WCF tested and had the same great results with were given to him by John Boy so it was also the same 3910 lot.
If you read John Boy's posting on the screening of the new lot of KIK it will show the same 3910 lot.
I checked this against other sources and even went and looked at all my powder to make sure it was all the same and it is, Lot 3910 This is not sent to say or prove you wrong in any way as I like and have a great respect for you and what you have done with the BPCR. Take Care David

[Don McDowell]

The chronograph tests I ran with 2f KIK it came out within 2fps of Goex 2f express, there was no loss in accuracy, and it shoots cleaner than any of the other blackpowders.
I have not chronographed kik1.5 but it does shoot quite accurately in my 45-70's. It also leaves very little fouling, and a lot of shine in the bore.

[kokomokid]

Bob, If I was ordering powder again today it would be the same as when I last ordered. Plenty of kik 2f to test as I think I can get a good load but I could never find the right combo in swiss 1f or swiss 3f so?

[hydraulic]

RMulhern:

I am obliged to you for the warning about changes in the neck tension. I am most pleased that you have provided me with an alibi; it gets wearisome being consistently outscored by Don and his wife both.

[Don McDowell]

:bigsmyl2: Charlie you're lucky you get to go home, I have to look at her trophies whenever I set down at the desk or walk into the room[smilie=w:[smilie=s:

[hydraulic]

Hope I'm not hijacking someone's thread, but I'd like to ask you guys a couple of questions, since we're all shooting in the same game. My Shiloh will shoot 2" to 2 1/2" groups over the bench. I know that most of the members here can shoot better groups than that, but that's what I can do, and I'm stuck with it. Anyway, what kind of groups do you get over cross sticks? At 100 yrds. the best I can do is about 6 inches for a ten shot group. Today I got out in the country to a friends ranch where I have a 325 yd. range and my group measured l8 inches, which seems consistent with a 6inch 100 yd. group. But this means I'll be throwing bullets somewhere inside of 48" at the Quigley buffalo, unless Mr. Lee lets us set up shooting benches this year. What are you guys doing?

[Don McDowell]

Charlie Ild be willing to bet you're doing something just a bit different off the sticks to make the groups open up like that. Might try a higher or lower stance , more in line with how you sit on the bench. Also are you bringing your knees up so you can rest the elbows, and solidify your rest on the sticks?
Then there's where are you resting the barrel on the sticks? That can make a big difference.

[Lead pot]

My first case of 2F KIK I got from Jerry was lot# 3AI/Y/200/04 GB/0877 and it came in a tin can.
It was a fast powder in the .44 but I could never get it to shoot in the .44 but it got along with the .45-70 pretty good.

[Lead pot]

Charlie where in the world have you been ?? been getting a little worried from not hearing from you.

[hydraulic]

Kurt: Been spending my time reading the posts from you and Don. Weather has been so good this year I have had time to burn up the last of my Swiss 1 1/2, and just sent off an order for a case of KIK. 74 degrees, sunny and calm today, so I got to shoot at my 325 yd range. I'm getting antsy to get out to the shoots, again. Loaded all my shells already. Look forward to the onl Keystone gang get-together at Alliance.

[hydraulic]

That 18 inch group was shot on the SR42 target which is the 200 yd. target for the sitting postion DCM match. My group, at 300, off the sticks, scored a 77% whiich rates a Marksman badge. I didn't think I did too bad.

[Don McDowell]

Charlie one thing I have to watch myself on, is not tugging down or otherwise pushing the buttstock one way or the other to hard with my gun hand, or riding to hard on it with my cheek and shoulder.

[Lead pot]

Hope I'm not hijacking someone's thread, but I'd like to ask you guys a couple of questions, since we're all shooting in the same game. My Shiloh will shoot 2" to 2 1/2" groups over the bench. I know that most of the members here can shoot better groups than that, but that's what I can do, and I'm stuck with it. Anyway, what kind of groups do you get over cross sticks? At 100 yrds. the best I can do is about 6 inches for a ten shot group. Today I got out in the country to a friends ranch where I have a 325 yd. range and my group measured l8 inches, which seems consistent with a 6inch 100 yd. group. But this means I'll be throwing bullets somewhere inside of 48" at the Quigley buffalo, unless Mr. Lee lets us set up shooting benches this year. What are you guys doing?

Charlie if your eyes are good enough to shoot off the bench 2" and opens up when shooting off sticks it's a control problem more then a load problem.

Pay attention when your shooting especially when you bear down and you just hear the "CLICK" because you forgot to pull the hammer back you will know what your shoulder and muzzle did at that moment and try to correct it.
I been sitting behind you enough to see how you shoot sitting using sticks and I must say that I cant do my best with the minimal support of the arms hanging loose in the air. I need to use the support in the sitting position like the Military taught me to be able to hit what I see and use the sticks to support the weight of that heavy barrel.

Lp.

[waksupi]

I been sitting behind you enough to see how you shoot sitting using sticks and I must say that I cant do my best with the minimal support of the arms hanging loose in the air. I need to use the support in the sitting position like the Military taught me to be able to hit what I see and use the sticks to support the weight of that heavy barrel.

Lp.

Fergoshsakes yes! When shooting from the sticks, brace your elbows into your legs. You can lock in nearly benchrest steady. With your arms swinging around, you can't shoot well.

[hydraulic]

I sit on my bony old rear end, no stool, left foot over the right, elbows solidly positioned on my knees. I have enough "clicks" from forgeting to cock the hammer to conclude I have pretty well eliminated any flinching.

Once more. What kind of groups are you guys shooting at the longer ranges over the sticks?

[Don McDowell]

Charlie, the groups I get from the sticks is equal to and sometimes tighter than what I was getting off the bench.

[Lead pot]

Charlie.

I get a little better off the bench then sitting off the sticks, but not much better.

Prone I get better if I remember to keep the sticks on the barrel dead spot.

I spent time at the Q shooting the 600 yard stop sign when it was clean shooting the .50 sitting and prone. 8 shots prone it looked like I could cover the splatters with my hand sitting maybe two hands. Most of the lead splatters where just about on top of each other but the 3-4 shots spread out the groups but I think I could have covered the outlanders with my fingers.
But 600 yards looking through the scope is really hard to tell just how close the splatters are.
But I will say this; placing the barrel on the dead spot makes a difference.

:smile: Last Christmas the Kids where here and the subject of the sharps came up while we where playing a game and my Son picked up one of the poker chips and asked me if I could hit this at 100 yards on the second shot, I said maybe :smile: I sent him down to my 130 yard target and told him tape it over the X. I got out the .40-70 because I just shot it the other day on that target so I knew the sights were on
I stuck the fork in the ground and the first shot just nicked the edge of the chip the second shot drove it through the target:shock:[smilie=w:
Things just come together at times when you need it.

[hydraulic]

Wow! All right, you guys, that did it. I'm going to switch from shooting to golf. Anyone want to buy a Shiloh cheap?

[RMulhern]

When I get my camera repaired I'll show you guys a sitting position that is awfully hard to beat! That 'Redneck' Doc over in Mississippi uses it....think his name be Lay!![smilie=w::veryconfu:shock:

[Lead pot]

I'm sorry Rick, but there is no way I can get into position like the good Doc. can. He uses cross sticks like I use for prone and his elbows are on the ground while in the siting position. :-)

[Don McDowell]

Charlie, before you take my 100$ bill for that wore out ol rifle of yours.... How about you build a set of bench top cross sticks, so you can see if the spot you're resting the barrel on is the culprit? And don't forget the follow thru...

[RMulhern]

Charlie, before you take my 100$ bill for that wore out ol rifle of yours.... How about you build a set of bench top cross sticks, so you can see if the spot you're resting the barrel on is the culprit? And don't forget the follow thru...

Don

"How about you build a set of bench top cross sticks,"

Eye golly that's something I've always had doubts in my mind about! Now....how in the name of the Good Lord can a set of cross-stixs attached to a bench give the same vibrational node as stixs DRIVEN INTO TERRA FIRMA???[smilie=1:[smilie=w::confused:
My Irish analytical mind says it ain't gonna work!!

Pour me another 3 fingers of GROUSE!!;-);-)

Oh...I've got you and TimberLake some bullets but I haven't had time to get to town this week to mail 'em! Been baby sitting my grandkids, casting bullets, and deer hunting in the mornings!! Tuff life...this retirement!!:kidding::kidding:

[Don McDowell]

:p:holysheep You mean its against the rules to take the grandevil to town?[smilie=l::groner: Kid must be as much trouble as his granpap:-P

[RMulhern]

:p:holysheep You mean its against the rules to take the grandevil to town?[smilie=l::groner: Kid must be as much trouble as his granpap:-P

Kids been sick....and betwixt helping Angie with him and her having me do Honey Do jobs, having unexpected company in and out.....it's been a helluva week! Plus...the buck I've been trying to bushwhack has had me in a dither!!

Damn near gone through a bottle of GROUSE this week!!:violin::?

[cajun shooter]

Rick, I will say that while attending the FBI SNIPER SCHOOL we were taught to position the barrel on the same spot because of the harmonics that take place in all barrels.
While I don't have the experience in BPCR that you and Don have. I will never obtain that at my age. I have tons of Long Range Rifle shooting with smokeless ammo and at long ranges.
When I first saw that Sage Outfitters was selling sets of bench top cross sticks that very thing entered my mind.
There would be a completely different set of harmonics when the sticks are placed on a hard non absorbing bench top as those from the same sticks placed in dirt.
It will take a good physicists to explain the difference in forces.
The one thing that I retained was that for every force there is a equal and opposite force.
I'll let you and Don figure this one out. Later David

[hydraulic]

Don: OK.

[Don McDowell]

Charlie then maybe you can do this with your bench sticks.:drinks:
http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/Ranch137/?action=view&current=003.mp4

[6.5 mike]

Nice pics Don.

[SharpsShooter]

.....ya could just grab a couple potted plants and a short set of cross sticks for your bench setup.[smilie=l:;)

SS

[Boz330]

It would seem to me that if you found the dead spot on the barrel and placed that on the cross sticks that there would be a minimum to no vibration to distort the shot. At the max point of the barrel whip the 2 different mountings would definitely make a difference.

Bob

[Don McDowell]

Thanks 6.5

Sharpsshooter the "bench" I use when shooting from the deck like that is an old metal ironing board. Bugger is a solid as a rock. But there isn't room on it for the potted plants and the regular crossticks, and I built the rail on the deck to high just to rest over it.
None of my rifles have seemed to care whether it was shooting off of this set up or from the sticks stuck in the ground, the same rest spot seems to be okaydokay....

[SharpsShooter]

Don,

I envy you being able to shoot off your back deck. When I shoot it is a "load up and haul it" routine. It don't take long for that to become a chore.

SS

[Don McDowell]

SS there's a few months of the year I can't shoot from the deck and have to go out into the pastures that don't have cattle in them during those months.. If that makes you feel any better. lol

[6.5 mike]

Don, they reminded me of my wife & my trip through WY & MT last sept. She had never been out there, was amazed at what we saw. Before we got back I was told we need to move to Big Timber, never saw that coming,[smilie=w:. Course I didn't argue.

[Don McDowell]

Yeh Mike that's not the sort of thing you want to let slip by unnoticed when she who must be obeyed pronounces it either.:lol:

[gandydancer]

is their own brand of BP sold by Graf & sons in the green cans KiK powder made in germany with alder charcoal??? gandy

[Don McDowell]

Nope it's Schuetzen, and it hasn't came in the green can for quite a while, it's just a Schuetzen can with the Grafs label on it.

[gandydancer]

Vendor: Graf Black Powder




its like $12.99 a pound.


Product Information
A new formulation of black powder developed by Wano Schwarzpulver of Germany for Graf & Sons utilizing premium grade Alder Charcoal. Alder is one of the most preferred bases for sporting black powder due to it's low residue/fouling characteristics as well as shot to shot, lot to lot consistency.

[Don McDowell]

Yup and it comes is a Schuetzen can with the Grafs label on it. The lot number tags attached to the side of the can are identical to what is on the same shipment of Schuetzen.
It's good powder, have shot a case or two of it, but it's nowhere near as clean as KIK.

[John Boy]

For the good of the order: Per James Kirkland, Owner of Schuetzen Powder LLC, starting in 2009, Wano who makes Schuetzen powder revised their processing procedure to increase the velocity by approximately 10%

[gandydancer]

I will have to give the KIK a try. will it work well in a BP cartridge say a 40/65 win or 38/55??


Don M. where is Hell Gap Wy??

[RMulhern]

I will have to give the KIK a try. will it work well in a BP cartridge say a 40/65 win or 38/55??


Don M. where is Hell Gap Wy??

The only way you're gonna find that out is try it and see!!

Oh...it's halfway betwixt Hell and Gap, Wyoming!

[Don McDowell]

Hell Gap's about a mile west of the house.

[cajun shooter]

If your already in Hell's Gap then Don's house is about a mile EAST of Town.