T/C Hawken fails to fire????

[oldracer]

5 years ago I built a Hawken 50 cal from one of the first Thompson Center kits that were produced. A friend of mine's father in law had bought it when they first came out and never touched it. Anyways, it shoots very well and several weeks ago I decided to try some tang/globe sights on it so I mounted them up. Last Thursday and again today I went to fire it and could not get a puff in the dust from the muzzle when fired a cap? I tried to load up a charge anyways and sure enough, nothing doing so I cleaned it all out. I soaked the barrel in Windex poured in from the muzzle and little to none came out the flash hole. I pulled the barrel and tried cleaning the flash hole but it seems just fine and clear. I drilled and tapped a plug on the boss where the nipple screws into and used a small drill bit in a pin vise to make sure the flash hole was clear and it was. I even tried using my 100# air line blowing into the nipple hole and did get air out the muzzle, BUT not a lot!

I then ran patches down into the bore and they come back clean and then looked in with my bore scope and put in the cleaning pick into the flash hole but could not see it? It appears to be a cast piece of steel that is sticking into the bore slightly so I feel that has gotten things gummed up?

My questions are:

- Is that steel piece a shield to keep the powder from falling out as I think it is?

- How the hell do I clean "behind" it so I get better spark flow?

_ Finally, can the plug be removed and if so, how as I tried to loosen it and it seems to be very well sealed for sure. If it could come off then I think the cleaning would be much easier but might not reseal??

Thanks for any input as I really want to try the new sights and have a change from my Sharps and Rolling Block BPCRs.

[tomme boy]

Send it back to T/C and have them fix it. Lifetime warranty.

[HARRYMPOPE]

is it a stuck ball can you remove the nipple and trickle in some FFF or FFFF and advance it a bit then get a bit more FF or something and shoot it out

[451 Pete]

[QUOTE= I drilled and tapped a plug on the boss where the nipple screws into and used a small drill bit in a pin vise to make sure the flash hole was clear and it was. I even tried using my 100# air line blowing into the nipple hole and did get air out the muzzle, BUT not a lot!

I then ran patches down into the bore and they come back clean and then looked in with my bore scope and put in the cleaning pick into the flash hole but could not see it? It appears to be a cast piece of steel that is sticking into the bore slightly so I feel that has gotten things gummed up?

_ Finally, can the plug be removed and if so, how as I tried to loosen it and it seems to be very well sealed for sure. If it could come off then I think the cleaning would be much easier but might not reseal?

oldracer,
It sounds like you drilled a clean out screw into your patent breech. I am wondering if this could possibly account for the metal you are seeing with your bore light. The patent breech can be removed from the barrel but is not normally ment to be. As the patent breech has been together for a while I would soak the bore with something like Kroil for a day or so and then try and remove it. It should unscrew but they are put together tight. A lot of times a ML gunsmith will use two pieces of square bar stock to clamp and sandwich the breech plug and aid in removing it. You may want to scribe a small index mark to help get things re-aligned when putting it back together.

Just my thoughts ...... Pete:coffeecom

[KCSO]

IF you have a breech plug wrench or a bbrass faced cresent wrench you can unscrew the breech plug. Put the barrel in a brass faces vice and turn it out. Then clean out the breech plug and POLISH it with emery paper and polish till it gleams. It won't hoold fouling and if you clean it when you shoot it it will stay bright for years.

[rockrat]

Don't know if T/C would fix it under warranty, because, IIRC, the kits didn't have any warranty(I also built one from their kit, but about 30 years ago)

[oldracer]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I initially thought the piece of metal sticking up was a ball and tried to use my puller (screw ended rod) but it is as hard as steel and the screw would not touch it. I started soaking the breach plug this morning and I have a sturdy vise with aluminum jaw covers and will have to find a wrench that fits the flats tightly as they seem to be a off size.

I was thinking of trying to heat it up with a flame for a bit to help break the seal? Not sure if that would help?

[tomme boy]

Mine was a kit and they will replace everything on it. They did for me anyway.

[405]

Sounds like a drill or tap burr where the flash channel enters the bore (patent breech). I assume this is a caplock. I can assure you it is not a shield to keep powder from flowing out!

Before removing the tang/ breech plug I'd try to remove the burr. Take the nipple out. In good light look in. Take a stiff piece of thin wire or paper clip with a bend at the end and stick it in the flash channel. Turn it around to see if you can feel a burr. If there is a burr there attach a patent breech scraper to the end of a good stout ceaning rod. That scraper should fit the contour of the T/C patent breech and is best if made out of steel. T/C sells scraper jags for that purpose but they are made out of brass. Turn the scraper while watching thru the flash channel. That should wiggle, bend, and or break off any burr that is there. If it is a small burr then even the thin wire with a bend in the end inserted in the flash channel may wiggle it back and forth enough to break it off.

If all that fails then go ahead and "pull the plug" if you haven't already. But that nice, dressed, near seamless junction between barrel and plug will be no more. But, removing the plug is not a disaster either and will surely allow for sure fix of the problem. If that seam does get buggered, simply draw file and/or sand with a block with 220-320 paper then refinish with whatever was applied- blue or brown.

[waksupi]

I have seen it mentioned it is hard to re-index a breech plug. I don't know where that idea comes from, I un-breech barrels all the time. Make a witness mark on the bottom, and it is a simple matter to bring them back to the original position.

[oldracer]

FOUND IT!!!! I finally stopped on the way home from some school professor type meetings at Harbor Freight and bought their 24 inch adjustable wrench and I checked several and got the one with the tightest jaws. I clamped the barrel in the soft jaws and let fly with the B-A-W and it came loose. The metal piece was the shinny end that went on my bore scope and I had remembered it coming off so now all is well. I plan to make the bore scope fail proof as I did several while in the Navy as a nuclear machinist so it should never happen again!

Anyways, I used a little anti-seize and torqued the breech so that the flats lined up and the tightening torque was about the same as loosening it felt like.

Thanks again for the replies everyone and Happy New Year!

[405]

That's good news! A foreign object of all things :)

I've never had a problem getting a barrel back to original position either whether it is a simple muzzleloader or a highpower bbl back in a receiver. A long time ago I took a hardened drill bit blank and sharpened the point- very sharp. Then before removing a barrel just punch a single mark right on a seam. When replacing, use a big cheater for easy leverage, some anti-seize cmpd and turn down to close to the punch mark alignment. Then for percision, use a small magnifying glass or loupe to check as you nudge the two halves of the punch mark together. Presto, perfect alignment back to original.

I have seen a lot of monkeyed-with muzzleloader barrels that have had the plugs removed then replaced where the plug was horsed in a bit too far then backed up for alignment. Or where the vises and clamps used for the job weren't the best. The results are not functionally damaging but cosmetically.... whew! It usually buggers that seam at least and sometimes really gouges up the plug and/or barrel.

[stronics]

oldracer,
I'm impressed! Glad you found it and fixed it.
David

[idahoron]

Good to hear you got it out. You might want to read this if you haven't already. Ron

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=136210

[oldracer]

Thanks for the link and I had already read it as it came up while searching for possible causes and posts about what, if anything is down in the breach area. Happy New Years everyone!