What's up with the secrets?

[Jim]

Occasionally, I see someone post about a wonderful success with cast boolits. Sometimes, there's a photo of a target, other times just some info on the group size at given distance.

What really puzzles me is why someone, anyone for that matter, would not post the data of the load so others could try it. I'm havin' a really hard time wrapping my head around that.

In many ways, I'm different, some good, some not so good. I certainly don't expect anyone to conduct themselves as I do. All that being said, when I stumble upon some combination or discover something that really blows my skirt up, I make a bee line to my laptop to post it.

It beats me why some of our members would guard data and not share it. I guess there's a lot I don't understand. Me being a simple minded old retired pipefitter, that stands to reason I suppose.

Well, no matter I guess. I want to be accepted as I am so I guess I'll have to learn to accept others as they are. I am trying, really I am. I'm just having a real hard time understanding the concept of not sharing.

[Tom W.]

What works in my firearm may not work in yours....But if you'd send a p.m. to the poster, he'd likely share with you.

[Love Life]

Liability. Some of the things that work in my firearms may cause issues in others. I love to help people out, but in this litgous society I play it on the safe side.

[oneokie]

One upsmanship?

[para45lda]

I'm with Tom on this one. While we have what I feel to be the finest group of people on the internet, it is a public forum.

I would hate for some Nimrod to take one of my loads and damage his/her gun or worse hurt themselves.

I could say more but I think you get my gist.

My two cents and worth every penny!!

Wes

but for you Jim just ask and I'll let you know any load I got.
wes

[waksupi]

Some of them are just plain dicks, too.

[Love Life]

Some of them are just plain dicks, too.

I can't help it. It's my name.

[williamwaco]

Jim,

I have developed a little sense and a conscience and I am worried about some of the idiots I see leaving messages here. (I know those guys. I used to be one of them.)



PM to follow.


.

[white eagle]

sometimes I do loads that I don't want to share because they my go over book a tad
I never want to hear that someone's gun blew apart with a load they got from me
shhhhhh...mum's the word

[btroj]

I don't know that it is always so much a secret as much as an oversight.
The load info is nice buti am not real likely to change what I am doing just because of one group.

Waksupi, that should be a standard answer for many posts here. Isn't that sad?

[Bulltipper]

I would hope it was not a matter of guarding data, as we all know, even sequential rifles off an assembly line can and will behave differently with like loads (even exactly alike loads). I would personally be happy to post any recipes to this board with no fear of lawsuit. Haha, you can't get blood out of a turnip no matter how hard you squeeze anyway...

[462]

It's a rare occurance whenever I post a load (Military Rifles/Show N' Tell is one, and my very first target posting) and it's not because of selfishness, oneupmanship, or Skull and Bones secrecy -- it's all about safety. I'm even wary of using a load that a member has posted that is not in any publication. Perhaps I'm too cautious, but that's the way I am.

As others have said, I'd be glad to share via a PM, just not on an open forum.

[45 2.1]

This is one of Paco Kelleys warnings in his articles:
My loads are mine, in my guns......you dear reader are on your own in reloading. Like any reloading information mine can not be taken directly...using sound and proven reloading practices is essential. I say this because I am giving information on some loads from my guns that are above SAAMI specs for pressure, loads that John probably would never want in his home, let alone in his guns.

Nobody has control over what you do but you (Its not like he can stand and look over your shoulder while your loading, now is it). Some things done is cast reloading are outside of normal data in reloading books and some has absolutely no data at all. What would you do if a novice reloader or one who didn't reload, but was wanting to asked for your data? And, most people ask questions when they don't understand. I saw little of that when I gave out instructions myself........... so, I don't know what to do when that happens.

[DLCTEX]

I don't mind posting what boolit, powder, primer, case, filler, etc. When it comes to the charge weight, I'm hesitant unless it is a very mild load that is commonly available to find. Besides, it is rare that the best load for one gun will be the best for the next one.

[runfiverun]

i'll give you the load most of the time.
there are occasions where i am not too sure of the load myself, just yet.
i stray from published data quite often [notice i said stray, not kept on going past]
250's and aa-2230 in a 357 max is not in a book anywhere that i am aware of.
that same 250 in a 358 winchester "don't got no" data published for rl-19 that i know of either.
but i shoot both.
nevermind the 158 and herco load in the 9mm.
or bluedot in the 45 acp [a load i got from dick casull]
or the load for the cut down 32-20 cases i use with 313 sized boolits in my 30 carbine revolver.
i'll give suggestions for the 308,44's,45, etc all day long but it's usually stuff you can find in lymans or rcbs's manuals.

[gray wolf]

Jim,
I think the other members are just being a little/a lot prudent, and are actually watching out for the welfare of other members. I don't see it any other way.
I'm sure a simple PM would give you or others what info you/ they want.
If not I am sure you would get the reason why.

[geargnasher]

Jim, I have to agree with most all of the above, but am left feeling fortunate that I haven't frequented very many threads lately where some of the membership were acting in the manner that Ric so eloquently labeled, guess I missed it or ignored it. Unless it was me, of course! But if you want to know any details of my loads, techniques, etc. that I didn't post somewhere, I'll be glad to shed what light I can via PM with you and others that I know to be safe, thinking, capable handloaders.

Gear

[Guesser]

I also do not share load data as a rule, there are exceptions of course, everything has an exception. I have one idiosycracy that takes it a step farther, and that is that I will never post a picture of any of my possessions, guns, vehicles, horses, dogs, whatever. I have pictures of it all for insurance purposes but not for the general edification of the internet public.

[Blacksmith]

My standard answer is to get a good reloading manual and look it up. Any load I develope for use in my guns is carefully approached while looking for pressure signs and any thing else that may be a warning. The exact same load in a different gun, or different brass, primer, powder lot, bullet manufacturer, etc. may not work or even be dangerous. So I'll list the components and anyone interested can work up their own load.

There are a lot of people who reload and don't own and have never read a reloading book. They put together whatever someone posts online or Joe told them about. God must indeed protect idiots.

Blacksmith

[MtGun44]

Loads that are really in the normal range or very light loads, I have no problem citing
specifically. If a load is hot - I will usually say something like " a full power magnum
load of H110" or similar - meaning "look up and work up your own full power load for
your gun with the mentioned powder".

Bill

[starreloader]

There are a lot of people who reload and don't own and have never read a reloading book. They put together whatever someone posts online or Joe told them about. God must indeed protect idiots.

Blacksmith



I had one of those "people" today... He came over today to buy 500 pieces of 380Auto brass and 250 pieces of 40 S&W brass and cast bullets for both... He wanted to know what loads and powders to use since he just got a Lee Press and this was his first time loading ammo... When I ask him what loading manual he had his reply was NONE right now.. I just looked at him and said "STAY RIGHT HERE".. Went and got all 5 of my Lyman Manuals and said sit down and look through these books now... Long story short he realized he need more information than he had received from a friend of his....

I have loaned him my Lyman #46 and #47 Reloading Manuals and told him to go and order the new Lyman #49 Reloading Manual

[leftiye]

I've been fried a time two for giving my loads. Doesn't stop me from giving my loads. Wish that saying that pressure signs in my gun were non existent or mild was enough, but there's always a know it all who has to flame me. Like Waksupi said.....

[waksupi]

I don't think the bad offenders are with the board any more, or are infrequent visitors now.
I do see not wanting to always share loads. My old M70 Winchester in .338 would lock up tight at three grains under book max. Friend with identical rifle could push his to maximum loads.

[smoked turkey]

Well I can certainly see why some posters feel that they or perhaps this board would be liable if a problem occurred while reloading one of the loads listed here. However I for one am very glad that some have enough confidence in their loads to post them for some of us who need a starting place. There are plenty of examples of calibers, gauges, and/or special purpose loads that are not in the loading books. Some of the posters in the military rifle section or shotgun section have as much experience as the folks who write the loading manuals. One specific that comes to mind is shooting cast in .416 Rigby. Where are you going to find loading information for that? It is a good idea when getting any loading information here or elsewhere to check and cross check as much as you can before trying the load. I can see Jim's point of view here and somewhat agree with him.

[Adam10mm]

Some cite liability and I think it's complete nonsense.

Personal loads I'll share no problem, except 9mm Major as that's going into uncharted territory where they must venture on their own. If they don't have the intelligence to figure it out on their own, they don't need to go down that trail trying to blaze the way.

My commercial loads I won't share nor publish the powder used. I'll help someone out and give them a few options, but I'm not going to give them the education I had to earn by spending money, time at the range and time away from my family developing.

Some commercial loads that I don't load anymore are fine and I've published them, such as 24.5gr TAC with a 55gr FMJ in the .223 set to 2.250" is a great all purpose range load.

I've always been a proponent of this load since it's been passed to me by a former friend of mine: 9.2gr Longshot behind anything 180gr in the 10mm Auto set to 1.250-1.260" is a very accurate medium-heavy load. Now the 180gr 10mm Auto commercial load I sell, no one is going to get that data from me and no it's not the same. :)

[P.K.]

Some of them are just plain dicks, too.

Yup! That's me!

[Bret4207]

I don't care much for specific loads these days. I look for trends and indications of trends that lead me to more and more of a solid RULE for cast. So far I see just enough to make me think I'm onto something, then along comes a complete anomaly! So I don't get too excited when someone doesn't offer a load, unless they say they are doing something on the edge. That usually indicates he's off into uncharted areas and I just want to know for the obituary.

[crabo]

If I am seeking direction in a load, I always look at the poster first. If it is someone who has a good track record of making sense, I may follow their lead. I am always going to work up to it if it is reaching the upper end according to my reloading manuals.

[garbear]

I am a noob compared to most here. I have been reloding for 5 years and casting for 4 years. I don't want to lead anyone astray.
Garbear

[archmaker]

The load data for me is not as important as the other things they are not telling me.

For instance if they say they are "taking a 30-30 case, dip it through the powder until full, scrap it off flush, IMR-3031, seat a 125gr bullet over the top, and that is the load I shoot in my 10" TC" then it does not mean I am going to have the same results he had if I tried it.

But if he stated . . .

"I have replaced the pin in my TC with one that barely fits, added heavy duty springs to get a better lockup, and when I cast my rounds I always weight segregate them for competition. Also make sure that my competition brass are from the same batch and the empty cases weigh about the same, and I only neck resize and orientate the round in the chamber the same way every time."

Also one of the best pieces of advice I got when starting out shooting IHMSA, was I would sit up empty my gun (Single shot) and then load and reposition. My spotter who was the match director (Jim Field - OKC gun club, 1987) said here, put your ammo here, your empties here and minimize how much you are having to move your body between shots.

Consistency is the name of the game, from the time the bullet hits the target all the way back to your case prep.

What I want to know is what I am missing, in the consistency department that really helps in achieving the best accuracy.

For instance on this board, I learned that my alloy in a pistol round can affect the accuracy of the round, depending on my load. A super hard alloy in a low pressure round is not always going to give you the best accuracy. So now I not only try different powders and charges but different alloys. :)

[largom]

I, for one, don't care what your load is. I would look at your components and say "maybe". Your gun and my gun are not the same. Your attention to detail and mine are not the same. Was there a typo error when the load was posted?

This forum has some of the smartest handloaders I've seen anywhere. I have been handloading for 60 years and I still learn from you people. I learn from your technique's and your methods but your load fits your gun, not mine.

Larry

[pmeisel]

This thread brought back memories of years searching through manuals and internet forums looking for loading info and ideas.

When I was new, I was always looking for new recipes, something to try. Although I have not near the experience of some of the most advanced and prolific loaders and shooters here, I have reached that "settled in" stage -- I have some loads that I am comfortable with and do the job for me. Sometimes when I hear about a new powder, or when I venture into a new caliber, curiosity returns.....

The loads I like seem to have things in common -- they are not the hottest possible for that cartridge, nor the lightest -- they are usually in powders that many others have had good luck with -- they seem to be very consistent. Some might say they are boring. No real secrets; just good safe loading practices.

Betcha there are a lot of the rest of you that are a lot like me.

[KCSO]

Unless it is a mild load I usually don't put in the gri=ains of powder for fear some one will not start low and work up and I don't wat them saying I blew up their gun. I had a fellow who wanted data on a 357 load one time and I found out he was using it in a spanish 38 special with the cylinders bored straight through. I wouldn't have shot wadcutters in that gun!

[44man]

I post groups and give ALL load info because none are max, only the most accurate.
I do not fear giving my loads because I am not a velocity searcher. I will not give unsafe information, all will be below book info.
Yet, I always say to work up, that is your responsibility as a reloader.
But if I find the load for a .44, it will work in a S&W 29, BH, SBH and SRH but might need a powder change in the RH. I have not found any of these to need different and I never had a separate load for every Ruger, etc.
Sounds crazy, but my load in my .44 SBH will do 1/2" at 50 yards in a SBH Hunter or a SRH.
The worst fear are those that hunt velocity and will not post their loads because they might be too hot. I have seen some posted that I would never use. Even the gun rags can scare me with the hunt for speed.
Once you understand accuracy is first and velocity is the very last, you can relax.
Any load for a Ruger, etc I give you will be safe, NOT FOR MY GUN ONLY because that is beyond common sense. My gun is not stronger then yours and to tell you that is beyond reason.
YOU STILL NEED LOAD WORKUP with any gun. Safety first because it is more common with rifles to exceed pressures.
You should know that a listed load should be approached with care.
Am I confident my revolver loads are safe? You bet because I am not going to show 1650 fps when the boolit is best at 1300 fps.

[rockrat]

I am like others, in that I would love to share data, but some of my guns have long throats and what I am shooting would be WAY too hot, I suspect, in someone elses' guns.

Also, I have calibers that are chambered in lever guns, but my rifle is either a single shot or bolt gun and I am probably running 50Kpsi with the loads and I don't want someone else using them in their 100yr old levergun

Don't mind giving boolit, powder type and other data, just not charge weight. Don't want someone to hurt themselves


Archmaker, bet I shot with you a few times at OKC gun club

[35isit]

I will only give the powder brand and type. Then tell you it was a book load and to work up to what works best in your gun. Watching for pressure signs first accuracy second then velocity.

[Trey45]

This is just an observation here, not a criticism.

Those that don't feel comfortable sharing their load data for fear of liability, a simple caveat at the beginning of your data would solve that whole problem. Explain the specifics of your gun, your data, and why it might be dangerous for others while it's not unsafe for your particular gun.

John Linebaugh apparently has no issues of sharing his Ruger Only load data, with a caveat informing people of the why's and why nots.

[Guesser]

We've all known of the hunter/handloader that had a Lee Loader and used a kitchen funnel and a teaspoon to measure his powder. For some reason he is still alive and well!!!!!!

[felix]

I will state standard loads without hesitation. If someone asks, they must be beginners by definition with reloading, or experienced with a new powder. If the latter, I will provide a range. I am one of the few on this board having experienced several SEE's in my years, and I tend to load hot and then reduce gradually for the accuracy point when using experimental applications. Depending upon the question about loads, I will keep this factor in mind in making a suggestion. Lawsuits? What a joke! It's a matter of proof of what was written, and what was interpreted, and what was actually used when and where and with what equipment. ... felix

[waksupi]

I can think of a current active thread, where a newbie reloader is pushing way beyond sane and reasonable load levels. It is just that type of reloader, who will spout the load to his little buddies, and create more hazards to the unsuspecting. When you start seeing pressure signs, you need to stop and back up, instead of adding more powder.
I think my preference would be if someone asks for a load, give them the powder, and the starting loads. That is where they should start anyway.
It used to be this board was nearly all experienced handloaders, but we now attract people who have never reloaded before. Some will have the mentality that they know more since they are just starting in with fresh ideas, than some old fud with 50 years experience behind him.

[44man]

I will state standard loads without hesitation. If someone asks, they must be beginners by definition with reloading, or experienced with a new powder. If the latter, I will provide a range. I am one of the few on this board having experienced several SEE's in my years, and I tend to load hot and then reduce gradually for the accuracy point when using experimental applications. Depending upon the question about loads, I will keep this factor in mind in making a suggestion. Lawsuits? What a joke! It's a matter of proof of what was written, and what was interpreted, and what was actually used when and where and with what equipment. ... felix
We have experienced SEE's too but with listed, most accurate loads and shot for years before they happened. (Not a reduced load.)
I will never tell anyone to go below starting loads because that is also danger.
Look what happened to me with listed starting loads in the .454 using any SR mag primer. Punch boolits and powder out of the bore with a brass rod. I needed to go to a max load for safety.
Then found a LP mag primer solved it.
But I blame the loading manual printers that do not know all things that can happen.
We find things and it is our duty to report even with resistance from others because it is safety. You can not believe the bad posts made about my findings with the .454. I will not back down! Imagine shooting another shot with powder and a boolit in the bore.
I am so sorry I make waves and so much dispute but have I saved anyone?
It might be an idea to start heavy but some guns can not do that.
I have no answer.

[geargnasher]

Where things get tricky is when we venture into the dark waters of duplexing and using compacting fillers in bottleneck cartridges. The real Doctoral level stuff.

I'm really glad to have learned how to do some of this stuff, if it weren't for seasoned handloaders who've shared such techniques on this forum, I'd still be stuck in reloading 101. BUT. I never copied an exact recipe, and never tried a technique that didn't have a safe starting place that I could work up from. I've been very careful to verify such starting places with several different people who have experience with the technique in question, and use my own common sense and experience at all times during load development.

Not everyone will do as I do, and not everyone will be safe with information they may read. It's a fine line between sharing special techniques for others to learn from and giving specifics that will be copied verbatim by people who have no business messing with them. I describe a lot of details in what I do sometimes, but I provide disclaimers. I wouldn't do it, much less share it, if I didn't have confidence that it's safe in MY guns with ME at the reloading helm. Like 44Man pointed out, my guns aren't any stronger than yours, but I don't push the absolute limits with my loads either. There might be differences in other guns that might create higher pressure with the same load that is mild in my guns, that's the only caveat here. In the end, share what you're comfortable sharing in open forum, and if I want to know more I'll ask. You can decide if you want to share more at that point.

Gear

[Blacksmith]

Posting loads on a public forum is one thing. Anyone can read them and based on their knowledge and experiance use them properly or improperly. If they use them improperly thay can and probably will sue you and no matter what disclamers you post it will still cost you for a lawyer to get out of it. There are people out there who when told a load was 5 grains of Bullseye used a pair of tweezers to load 5 individual grains of powder. Don't under estimate the power of STUPID. I read this in a post that was on this Forum I think.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't PM or in other private communications share with those you trust. This is especially true when we sell each other guns, TC barrels, reloading equipment and swap special cast boolits. If you sell or buy the question of what load did you use takes on a more personal meaning.

Blacksmith

[blackthorn]

In October I went to Prince George BC to hunt with my son. I stayed at his place and we went out each morning. One evening one of his friends came over and the conversation turned to reloading. The friend asks me if I would maybe be interested in reloading some ammunition for him, similar to the stuff his grandfather used to load. I said probably not, but asked him what he had in mind. Well, he says this is a 30-06 Bolt Action and his grandfathers load was 62 grains of powder behind a 180 grain bullet. I asked what kind of powder he would like me to use and he say "don't matter just so long as its 62 grains it will be fine". I said thanks for the offer to load some for him but no thanks I was not interested. Once he had left I told my son never to be around that guy when he had a gun of any kind in his hands, especially if he ever gets his hands on a reloading set up. By far and away I believe the majority of the folks on this site are careful methodical loaders but I have seen far too many posts that lead me to believe that if the guy posting owns a reloading manual it is still in the skrink wrap sitting on a shelf somewhere and he is just too lazy to read it! He only wants someone else to tell him what to do and--- if you do, this guy will likely just add a few grains cause he dont think your load looks fast enough. SO---+1 for the PM feature. Have a great day!

[pmer]

Okay I changed my signature... still changing.. :holysheep

Ok, the world can start turning again.

[pmer]

I almost think using the PM, and if there was trouble, it would be more actionable because there would more specifics involved. But I'm not a lawyer though.

[lbaize3]

I had a buddy that would tell me, when I asked for a load, to just fill the case with Bullseye and use a ball peen hammer to seat the bullet. Needless to say he was joking. Such an load would blow a firearm into the next county, along with certain body parts. I have difficulty in believing anyone on this forum would use a load without first double checking in one of their reference books.

[geargnasher]

Like Waksupi pointed out, believe it or not, every once in a while there are such. Even worse, think about all the guests who visit daily that we'll never know.

Gear

[Bullet Caster]

Well, I'm new to reloading and only take someone's load information for a starting point. I usually look to see how many posts the individual has and look at his language for describing the load. If there is anything suspicious I usually discredit his information posted. I try to see things from the whole relm of things. If it don't make sense, then don't do it!!!

I've asked for recommendations about a load say for the .45 Colt. One member suggested that I use 9 grains of Unique behind a 255 grain boolit that he's used in his .45 Colt clone. I've read my colt .45 loading manual and have checked out other web sites looking for a starting load. Just because he uses 9 grains of Unique doesn't mean that I'm going to do the same. If what someone posts doesn't look right, I'll continue to search until I find the proper starting place. I don't take no one's word for it 'cause I usually don't trust people with my life. I understand that while reloading might be a fun thing to do, it comes with a certain understanding of reloading techniques. I've only ever reloaded for my Ruger .357 when I had it and I used the Lee hand reloader and a hammer. And you can bet that I never went over the recommended charge weight. That experience taught me quite well for my want to reload now.

I learned early on from being in the USMC that one must "go by the book" sometimes especially where safety is conderned. With that said, I'll be asking a few questions about reloading whenever it is unclear what I'm about to undertake may lead to injury or death. I tend to trust people who act like they know what they're talking about and have experience with a certain load. Then I will have a starting place and can develop a load by myself. I may not have all the reloading manuals that you guys have but one thing clear is that I have a computer and can search the larger manufacturers data base on hand loads. I would like to think that I am a free thinking individual and can make necessary decisions based on a knowledge of what others have tried or published data made available to the general public. I know that every gun is NOT the same and what may work for you may not work for me. Even if I used someone's published data and things went awry, I would not look to the legal aspect of trying to sue someone because of what they published. I would know that it should be only a starting place whether or not it worked would be up to me. I never take what someone tells me as gospel truth because I know there are variables sometimes that cannot be controlled no matter how careful you may be.

So far I'll be the one asking and not publishing anything 'cause I don't know too much about reloading at the present time. Even if it means a PM to someone 'cause that's easy enough to do!
Stay safe out there. BC

[canyon-ghost]

:coffee: I've been reloading and bullet casting for around ten years now. I did start out with two friends that shot the same shooting matches. I had time to listen to reloading conversations and ask questions. Both of these friends did BOTH, reloading and casting. I consider myself fortunate to have known them. And I did really seek them out to begin with.

I don't mind posting load data when I know I'm shooting mild loads. I do take it as fact that the other guy reloading is doing the same load tests (even down to one tenth grain increments) and measures, weighs and inspects his bullets. I do expect him to fire only very cautiously loaded rounds with the same background homework. If he isn't, then my data may not work in his gun, so he's just out of luck and I pray he doesn't get hurt.

There are a few things I learned with help, a lot of things I read and experimented with until I knew how. I expect the other guy to be as careful and methodical as I am or, he probably shouldn't be looking for powder charge weights. I also expect the guy to double check the load before seating a bullet over it. It isn't like I've never double charged one, and watched as powder went all over the bench.

[M4bushy]

The loads I like seem to have things in common -- they are not the hottest possible for that cartridge, nor the lightest -- they are usually in powders that many others have had good luck with -- they seem to be very consistent. Some might say they are boring. No real secrets; just good safe loading practices.

Betcha there are a lot of the rest of you that are a lot like me.

Yes I agree, the loads I use seem to fall in the middle to upper middle of the load range. I develop a load to shoot accurately out of my guns not to impress the chronograph. With my guns, I've found groups will start to tighten up as I work from the starting loads up. Then there seems to be a point when they start to open back up as I reach the upper end of the range. So I try to hit the sweet spot in the load range for my guns.

[pmer]

I think the legal part can be out of proportion too. Imagine being a lawyer and having someone come into your office saying he got injured from a load on a forum that he got off the Internet. I think it would be easier said than done. Finding a judge. And getting a jury that doesn't think the client's a fool.

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
I have posted most of my loads when asked directly. 99% of them can be found in the listed range given for the powder in various manuals: Speer, 3 different Lymans, Nosler,Accurate Arms, Barns, Norma, Winchester, Sierra, Pacific, Several powder manufactures booklets. Even old books on cartridges, hunting & guns. NRA publications, Handloader & other magazines.

With surplus powders you get help from the suppliers, this board, powder burn rate charts. With some you are just in dark territory.
With wildcat cartridges you are in dark territory.
You are making a judgment call.

Some have computer programs, Also powder/bullet manufacturer websites.:Fire::Fire:

[gandydancer]

to many Id10t"s out there what are you shooting FA 454 oh what's your load I have a 454 myself. ( a taurus) some of the taurus 454's could not hold up to a steady diet of factory ammo. has anyone seen the new taurus 454's? much much bigger then the old taurus 454's also I did most of my shooting over the years in CT where lawsuit was a way of life. still is. GD


PS Taurus makes some decent stuff today.

[WILCO]

What's up with the secrets?

I've got no secrets to share Jim. All my loads are from established data, well within the limits and on occasion, I've been known to post established data when a question has been asked, but I'm not a trend setter when it comes to working up loads or "mixing" powders. Nope. No voodoo magic secrets on my end......

[montana_charlie]

Occasionally, I see someone post about a wonderful success with cast boolits. Sometimes, there's a photo of a target, other times just some info on the group size at given distance.

What really puzzles me is why someone, anyone for that matter, would not post the data of the load so others could try it.
Context is the key in any conversation ... even a forum thread involving the picture of a fired target.

The thread, itself, should provide the 'reason' for the inclusion of the picture, and that reason may have nothing to do with the details of the load.

The poster may use his target to illustrate that he finally found a bullet design which his rifle likes, or after replacing his scope he can actually shoot as well as he has been claiming he could.

There are some who post every last detail about the load used to fire a pictured group ... right down to the barometric pressure.
Unless the thread context is specifically about his load development sequence, the only part that interests me is the distance he fired from.

CM

[onesonek]

I don't look as being secretive or being obstinate, or whatever,,,, I will give what powder or powders work best for me, and if asked my starting load. However, I figure exact data between one gun to another acting the same way or ending with same results, is very slim, even more so with cast. If for no other reason, 90% of my guns have custom barrels on them. Unless someone elses gun is built the same way, the chances are my data means squat in another. And even if another was built the same way, odds are still slim it would still shoot the same.
Only exceptions I have posted data is with wildcats where no data exist, and then make notes of my results on personal thoughts of pressures in my guns.

[44man]

Yes I agree, the loads I use seem to fall in the middle to upper middle of the load range. I develop a load to shoot accurately out of my guns not to impress the chronograph. With my guns, I've found groups will start to tighten up as I work from the starting loads up. Then there seems to be a point when they start to open back up as I reach the upper end of the range. So I try to hit the sweet spot in the load range for my guns.
Exactly right. [smilie=s:
There are a few words I hate to hear---HOW FAST? I see it too much and it scares me.
Work to accuracy and when more powder is added the groups will open again---STOP and go back. Just what would anyone gain by going for more?
I will tell the velocities I get from each gun, never as much as can be had, but where they shoot best. I will never brag about how fast I can make any gun shoot.
That is why I NEVER use a chrono working loads. Accuracy first. I don't care if a .44 mag shoots best with .44 special loads.
Many will go out of their way to match book velocities and complain when they can't get them. Is that why they load?
I have tried for all of my life to explain to everyone that velocity is not what to search for, yet they are the most common posts and answers.
Two words---SAFETY then ACCURACY, NEVER velocity.
I read some rags and see the comment "in my gun", are they crazy? What made their gun stronger then mine?

[Pigslayer]

Some of them are just plain dicks, too.

I'm with you.[smilie=b: