Flux revisited

[happy7]

I have been using Carnauba Red Bullet Lube for flux in my pot. It is without question the most effective flux I have ever used. I mean it will take whatever slush is at the surface of the pot, which many call oxidized lead, and others call tin, and makes it go back into the melt. The slush pretty much 100% disappears. Nothing else that I have tried has done this. Now all I have tried was, first candles, second Midway flux, third saw dust and wood sticks. With all of the above, it never really did anything for the slush at the top.

Now my problem is that the Carauba Red stinks and smokes to high heaven when you burn it and I am sensitive to those things anyway, and it gets to me physically. When it is first applied it becomes an ugly slimy, oil that can actually climb the walls of the pot and is next to impossible to scoop off, and the thing to do is just apply it and leave it till it burns to an ash, when it is easily removed and no longer oily. In between, however, is a LOT of smoke.

So two questions. Have people found other things that work like the Carnauba that are less toxic, for want of a better word? Secondly, have I discovered a new miracle flux, or do others of you normally get your "oxidation", again, for want of a better word, to return to the melt so effectively?

[fecmech]

I use sawdust and light it off when it starts to smoke, that minimizes the overall amount of smoke.

[runfiverun]

light it on fire the smoke goes away.

[zxcvbob]

Crisco or lard (bacon grease should work too.) It just takes a little; stir it good with a wooden stick, like a paint stir stick. It works better than wax and it doesn't flame up as bad.

[geargnasher]

+1 to lighting the smoke from the lube. Same for sawdust if you can get it to burn. The fire helps the "reduction" process of the oxides since it removes any available oxygen from the surface of the metal and if it burns orange produces carbon monoxide, which is especially effective at reducing oxides.

Gear

[Mr Peabody]

I bought a product off of ebay called Buck Beaver. It's smokeless,oderless and doesn't rust my pot. I have been really happy with it!

[mdi]

No ideas on a new flux, but a couple hints. I'd use a long nosed butane lighter to light the smoke and/or use a 6" clip-on fan, mounted about 3 feet away from the pot to direct the smoke away from the operator (my solution...)

[cajun shooter]

I know you said that you have used sawdust but I'll bet you have not tried Pat Marlins wood flakes. He uses a spruce type of wood and it is not like ground sawdust you get when cutting with a saw. His product is more like wood shavings. He packs so much in a USPS Priority Mail box that it last me a good two years. The box is $20.
You should contact him and try a sample amount. It works better than anything I've ever used and I have been casting since 1970.
It does smoke but I use a fan to exhaust the fumes outdoors or you may light it.
After I flux with it I put another pinch or so on top of my alloy to prevent any oxidation of my alloy. My wife always ask what smells so good in my casting area.
If you read the book by Fryxell and Applegate named From Ingot to Target which is in our sticky section for free download. They recommend using a wood product over all other materials. If nothing else download the book.
I printed mine out and made a three leaf binder into a easy to reach book for reference and I've loaded since 1968 and still learn from the included material.

[slide]

I cast another vote for Pat Marlin's wood flake product. It is an excellent product at an excellent price.

[fecmech]

I know you said that you have used sawdust but I'll bet you have not tried Pat Marlins wood flakes. He uses a spruce type of wood and it is not like ground sawdust you get when cutting with a saw. His product is more like wood shavings. He packs so much in a USPS Priority Mail box that it last me a good two years. The box is $20.

That's exactly what I use, went brain dead when typing my post and could not remember Pat Marlins Flux. Yes your right it does do a good job and lasts a long time.

[happy7]

Some good advice here. I haven't had too much success with sawdust, but maybe the marlin flux has somethign special about it. I need to give it a try.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If you read the book by Fryxell and Applegate named From Ingot to Target which is in our sticky section for free download. They recommend using a wood product over all other materials.

If you start with an alloy that was well fluxed during smelting, I see no reason
to use wax/oil/lube/fat...it just makes alot of smoke. I cast in the house, so that
is important to me...maybe not so much for others.

I use and reuse (over and over) a charred hardwood stick.
I scrape the inside walls and bottom of the pot.
I leave all the dross on top of the melt for insulation
to hold heat in and oxygen out, sometimes
I even add some dross that I have have skimmed
off at the end of a previous session if I needed to
drain the pot to change alloys. This dross is usually
metal rich and needs some reducing.

OK, Now I've scraped the pot and have a good layer
of dross. Now I add a thin layer of saw dust on top
to just smolder...and honest to God, that metal rich
dross reduces considerably while I am casting, no need to stir.
I have used my own saw dust and also I had a sample of
Patmarlins' CFF he send as packing material with his
checkmaker die set (that lasted about a year with my casting schedule).
Patmarlins' CFF works considerably
better than the 2x4 dust I generated with a skil saw, But
my 2x4 dust did work. I suspect my 2x4 dust doesn't
have the resin content that the CFF has.
Jon

PS. I await the arrival of another couple of checkmaker die sets
and hopefully those packages will be packed with CFF...that should
be 2 years worth for me, which is good because I am too cheap
to buy saw dust and to pay to have it shipped across the country.

[parson48]

Sawdust works very well for me; and every time I use the bandsaw or table saw, I end up with more than enough to keep me well supplied.

[FirstBrit]

I have been using Carnauba Red Bullet Lube for flux in my pot. It is without question the most effective flux I have ever used. I mean it will take whatever slush is at the surface of the pot, which many call oxidized lead, and others call tin, and makes it go back into the melt. The slush pretty much 100% disappears. Nothing else that I have tried has done this. Now all I have tried was, first candles, second Midway flux, third saw dust and wood sticks. With all of the above, it never really did anything for the slush at the top.

Now my problem is that the Carauba Red stinks and smokes to high heaven when you burn it and I am sensitive to those things anyway, and it gets to me physically. When it is first applied it becomes an ugly slimy, oil that can actually climb the walls of the pot and is next to impossible to scoop off, and the thing to do is just apply it and leave it till it burns to an ash, when it is easily removed and no longer oily. In between, however, is a LOT of smoke.

So two questions. Have people found other things that work like the Carnauba that are less toxic, for want of a better word? Secondly, have I discovered a new miracle flux, or do others of you normally get your "oxidation", again, for want of a better word, to return to the melt so effectively?

Hi, I'm using Magma equipment for my commercial cast bullet operation here in Germany and hence I am also very conscious of fumes and smell when fluxing melts. Something which I prefer is plain soap bar like Ivory. If you use occasionally then you can cut off some small chips with your pocket knife. If you use on a large scale then just use a cheese grater preferably when your other half is out of the house! If your melt is fairly clean then don't need too much a piece about the size of a peanut should be fine. Stir it in well, it will fizzle initially as this is just the residual moisture in the soap bar. You need to stir this more than your canuaba wax, but it binds the dross very well. If the dross is very low or if you have taken too much soap then you end up with a tarry mess -but at least you don't have any issues of inhaling nasty dust particles. The soap flux doesn't smell unless you dislike the inherent fragrance of the soap. It doesn't smoke or self ignite even when melt temperatures are over 800°F. Also I find both economical in use and fairly cheap to buy. And the resultant dross volumes to be disposed of are much less tha with sawdust, cat litter or Marvelux and other similar products.

Best regards,

Adrian, Germany.

[runfiverun]

fluxing is cleaning.
carborization [from the carbon] is another process.
if you do both....... get carbon in the alloy and an oxygen free barrier on the oxidized alloy or it's allready oxidized components, you will have a clean alloy with minimal loss of your oxides.
so to restate this again USE CARBON AND FIRE...