45 Super/460 Rowland Project

[aarolar]

Precursor to this thread, I love intelligent discussion and sharing theorys I don't want this thread to get out of hand with name calling or insults if you don't have something helpful to add please don't respond. I am being as careful and safe as humanly possible and have no plans on pushing this beyond what is safe. Please read this article it will help you understand what I am working with. I have been researching and planning this for almost a year and have a pretty good grasp on what the limits are Thanks for everyones cooperation, Aaron.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm

Now that thats over sit back and enjoy, I choose to do this here because I really like this site people seems to be friendly and helpful plus I want to use cast boolits in this project. 8-)

My platform for this project is going to be a Glock 21, I choose this platform because it is very simple work on and understand plus 90% of parts are drop in. If excessive wear becomes my slide or frame another is just a phone call away. I have on order now a 22lb recoil spring with SS rod and a KKM comped barrel however they seem to be lost in the wonderful postal service somewhere. :roll:

The super brass is near impossible to aquire so I went the route of getting Rowland brass and trimming it down. I will be watching closely for the super brass to come avaliable.

Goals are for this gun are to build it into a hunting platform for Whitetails and Hogs. First step is to work up an equivalent to a the 10mm, for this I will be using a 185 grain XTP. Second goal will be to work up a load with a 230 grain XTP for hunting and or SD against angry hogs. Third I intend to work up a heavy hitting cast load with the goal of using it for hunting.

[aarolar]

So Christmas Day brought lots of goodies, I got a Chrony, Lee Turrent, Fresh set of dies bullets brass ect. and I began working up loads today. Starting with working up a 10mm equivalent using the 185 xtp. I am basing my starting loads off of this load data and talking with other people who have already done this once. My recoil spring and barrel have yet to show so I can only go so far at thus point.

http://www.realguns.com/loads/45Super.htm

Developement so far

9.0grains PP
COAL 1.250
Hndy 185 XTP
1034 FPS AVG

No pressure signs primers still rounded recoil nothing to write home about.

9.5grains PP
COAL 1.250
Hndy 185 XTP
1077 FPS AVG

Same as above

10.0grains PP
COAL 1.250
Hndy 185 XTP
1099 FPS AVG

Slight flattening of primers recoil still not over obtrusive but definately becoming noticeable. Beginning to have stove pipeing issues probley due to too light of a recoil spring.

10.5grains PP
COAL 1.250
Hndy XTP
1151 FPS AVG

Primers starting to fill out and excessive stovepiping every round brass was destroyed from hitting extractor? Stopping point for now untill I get my spring. Do notice I seem to be getting a consistant 50ish fps increase for every .5 grains. To me this points to a pretty consistant pressure increase. Still no hit of the dreaded glock smile but I do see the end in sight. Real guns data is showing the limit at 11.3 grains so from here I am going to start walking up in lesser steps.

[runfiverun]

thats when you look at a slower powder.

[aarolar]

thats when you look at a slower powder.

I'm currently looking for some AA#7 but for now PP is the slowest I have to work with. Finding powder around these parts ain't exactly easy.

[cgtreml]

I got a conversion kit for my 1911 from Clark. Got it last Christmas. Have had great fun with it. Let me know if I can be any help. By the way Midway has 45 super brass. Oh I will share loads but not in public. If you want to see what I have used I will PM you.

[aarolar]

I got a conversion kit for my 1911 from Clark. Got it last Christmas. Have had great fun with it. Let me know if I can be any help. By the way Midway has 45 super brass. Oh I will share loads but not in public. If you want to see what I have used I will PM you.

Thanks for the heads up on the bass I have been watching it but I didn't expect any in untill feb according to the starline site.

[Silverboolit]

I have read somewhere that .45 Super brass can be made of cut down .308. Probably would take some reaming??

[aarolar]

I have read somewhere that .45 Super brass can be made of cut down .308. Probably would take some reaming??

Yes sir this is correct but the reaming makes it not worth while.

[softpoint]

I have experimented with the .45 super. I have used springs as stout as 32 lbs. in the 1911 platforms. I used for a time one of the guide rods with an internal spring. I believe you can get those for a G21 too. One of the advantages of the Glock is the flat wound coil spring. You can run more spring if needed without coil bind. We tried some smaller diameter guide rods in some trials just so we could use Glock springs in 1911's. BTW, 32 lbs proved too much for the gun, we finally settled on 28 lb springs. Powders were blue dot, AA7, power pistol, 800X (which is like metering oak leaves) finally settling on Longshot. I still use Super loads in my 625 Smiths and 1 1911 on occasion. Hundreds of loads were fired with no ill effects to the 1911's but I am sure that top end Super loads are bound to harm the pistol over the long haul.I never played with the Rowland, because it must use a compensator, and I hate those on a hunting pistol. I am sure it is fun to work with and even more potent than the Super. I have since built 2 10mm's,one a longslide, and I think for a hunting gun I personally like the 10 better. IMHO:lovebooli

[akraven]

Starline shows 45 super in stock

[aarolar]

I have done some workup with this super but only using j word bullets. I am waiting on my KKM barrel to play with the cast stuff just because of all the glock hype about shooting cast. If there is interest I will share my developements with the j word bullets but I don't want to get in trouble. :p

[akraven]

I noticed on the 460 Rowland site that they still are not offering it for Glocks but do offer it for Springfield XD and the S&W M&P. Not sure why and when I emailed for a reason quite awhile ago they just said they were still testing. A local gun shop has done quite a few of these conversions with good luck so far.

[jwp475]

I have experimented with the .45 super. I have used springs as stout as 32 lbs. in the 1911 platforms. I used for a time one of the guide rods with an internal spring. I believe you can get those for a G21 too. One of the advantages of the Glock is the flat wound coil spring. You can run more spring if needed without coil bind. We tried some smaller diameter guide rods in some trials just so we could use Glock springs in 1911's. BTW, 32 lbs proved too much for the gun, we finally settled on 28 lb springs. Powders were blue dot, AA7, power pistol, 800X (which is like metering oak leaves) finally settling on Longshot. I still use Super loads in my 625 Smiths and 1 1911 on occasion. Hundreds of loads were fired with no ill effects to the 1911's but I am sure that top end Super loads are bound to harm the pistol over the long haul.I never played with the Rowland, because it must use a compensator, and I hate those on a hunting pistol. I am sure it is fun to work with and even more potent than the Super. I have since built 2 10mm's,one a longslide, and I think for a hunting gun I personally like the 10 better. IMHO:lovebooli



With proper barrel to slide lckup and 15.5 spring is plenty for 45 Super and the 18.5 is what I run in my 1911 and I shoot 255 grain hard cast to 1090 FPS without a hitch

[Matthew 25]

I have some 45 Super brass and it is identical in look and weight to starline 45 acp brass, I've heard from others there is no difference but I don't know that for sure.
I worked up a pretty good 255 rnfp load for my 625 using Bluedot.

[akraven]

I have some 45 Super brass and it is identical in look and weight to starline 45 acp brass, I've heard from others there is no difference but I don't know that for sure.
I worked up a pretty good 255 rnfp load for my 625 using Bluedot.

If you read this article you will understand the differiences
http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm

[ss30378]

45 super is my favorite autoloader round. I've had up to 11.5 grains of power pistol in my longslide without much of an issue with pressure. Through the 6 inch barrel it runs close to 1500fps. I like the heavier bullets with less velocity i've gone up to a 275 grain cast but as of right now im running the 265 grain cast performance bullet with 8.0 grains of PP seated to 1.165 col and through the long gun its a shade over 1100fps. I have a 24lb spring which works with supers and factory 45acp rounds. I also have a 6 3/4 inch barrel with a 3 port comp and have exceeded the rowland ballistics in super brass. The comped barrel runs an 18 lb spring and i have to run at least super pressure to get it to cycle. All my loads have been with power pistol. I'm convinced the super and rowland brass are equal besides length. I havent had any bulged or split brass when running rowland level loads. Youll love working with the super people are always shocked when they see a 1911 (or glock in your case) throwing a 6 foot fireball. Have fun and work up slowly!

[aarolar]

My comp'ed barrel from KKM came in today. :bigsmyl2: Unfortunately I won't get to do much with it till this weekend. The difference in chamber support between the factory glock barrel and the KKM is unreal.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb287/aarolar/IMAG0134-1.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb287/aarolar/IMAG0135-1.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb287/aarolar/IMAG0136-1.jpg

[akraven]

ss30378 IS this with a 1911?

aarolar You look like you have your work cut out for you. Look forward to your results.

[akraven]

Any updates from your range trip?

[justashooter]

re 45 super brass, i am just about to put 500 or so R-P 45 Super cases on gunbroker. these are new, primed, unfired.