35 Whelen Rebore Questions

[pcw907]

Merry Christmas All!

I intend to rebore a Savage Model 40 Super Sporter from .30-06 to .35 Whelen and I have some questions for this group.

What is the ideal twist rate for cast 358009 boolits weighing about 280 grains? Greenhill formula says 1:18 should work for that boolit at 2200 fps, but I read of problems in the Whelen with lighter projectiles at 1:16.

What is the best depth and number of rifling grooves?

I am planning on this for an elk, bear, moose gun and maybe an occasional mule or blacktail deer. The gun is new to me and in generally good shape (passed function check, no rust, stock intact). The bore does look pretty worn. I bought it specifically to convert to a Whelen. I only paid $125 for it, and it had an intact Weaver V10 scope on it which retails for $195ish, so I am already ahead. The only issue I can see is the detatchable magazine has a narrow area for the cartridge necks I may have to open up to accomodate the .35 caliber necks. I may just make some magazines for it on my own.

Any other advice or comments are welcome.

Thanks

pcw

Western Washington

[felix]

16 twist works for close ranges and is weather dependent. 14 twist works in all weather conditions throughout all distances reasonable for 2100 fps muzzle. 0.0045-0050 land height will allow all day shooting with lube without undue care as to its viscosity. Use an odd number of grooves, 5 or 7 should be plenty. Throat for ZERO freebore with the bullet seated to bottom of case neck, the straight portion. ... felix

[Ed K]

My understanding is that 1:16 becomes marginal with most 250gr bullets.

[MBTcustom]

Second what Felix said. 1-14 is the way to go. It will stabilize the heavy 250+ grain boolits but also gives superb accuracy with the lighter 200 grain slugs.
+2 on zero freebore, get a tapered lead in. Its good for GG boolits as well as paper patch boolits.

I am very curious as to why use an odd number of grooves?

[B R Shooter]

In shooting benchrest, the question of the number of grooves always comes up as to which is best. There has never been any definitive proof one is better than the other. An accurate barrel is where you find it, not dependent on grooves.

However, I have been told by an older fellow that has a history of more gun related design involvement than you can imagine, that the reason for the odd number of grooves is that the cutter (cut rifling here) always has support opposite of the cut. It would be an accurate theory.....

[MBTcustom]

Well, I'm just a machinist, but that theory makes all kinds of sense to me because I have found that cutters with odd number cutting edges always cut better. Be it a tap, end mill or fly-cutter. I dont know why but its something that I have noticed on many occasions.

[felix]

Tripods have 3 legs for reasons of balance. Have you ever seen a Quadpod? Yeah, living room tables are. But they require a level floor. So, making a BR barrel/action in a shop so equipped there would be no difference. Always go with the odds when given a chance, and go with an odd number of gadgets where centering support is required . ... felix

[S.R.Custom]

Tripods have 3 legs for reasons of balance. Have you ever seen a Quadpod?

Yep. It's called a "chair." To look at them, you'd never think they'd work, but they do. And it's not very often you see a three-legged barstool...

There is absolutely no reason why an odd-configured barrel would shoot better than an even one if all else was the same.

[MBTcustom]

Hey! Leave my superstitions alone, they didn't do anything to you!:kidding:
Next your going to tell me that blowing on my cartridges and holding them up to the light doesn't help them shoot better. Heh Heh.

[geargnasher]

IF all else was the same, key word IF. In the real world, odd is almost always better, except for the '97-'98 Ford light-duty 3/4 ton disasters of a truck that had seven wheel nuts per wheel.

Gear

[skeettx]

I have a question on the Savage Model 40.
I had a 45 Super Sporter (a fancy 40) and the bolt lugs are on the rear, right?
Any headspace issues?
Mike

Here is a picture of a Model 40

http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=10010580

[leftiye]

The old cut rifled rifling machines only had one cutter which made all of the grooves one at a time with even numbers of grooves the cutter would press into the opposite groove and the later cut grooves wouldn't be as deep at the same setting.

Odd numbers of cutting edges on a tool will often stop chatter and "digging in" (forming a set of grooves where the resonance causes the cutting speed to vary).

[nanuk]

I have read that the smoothest multi flute reamers have odd numbers flutes and they are not evenly spaced....

any truth to that rumour?

[nanuk]

Hey! Leave my superstitions alone, they didn't do anything to you!:kidding:
Next your going to tell me that blowing on my cartridges and holding them up to the light doesn't help them shoot better. Heh Heh.

Don't laugh, but an Indian friend told me if I took a few minutes to meditate then leave some tobacco in my hunting spot, I'd be more successful.

I do it every time now, and have been for many years.

more successful??? I dunno, but my hunting partners think I'm crazy, and want to smoke my tobacco.

[MBTcustom]

It has to do with resonance. Odd numbers or patterns sometimes break up the resonances that develop in a part. Look at the tone ring on a banjo, 20 holes equally spaced to help it to resonate. At work we often make a hole pattern with one hole out of sequence to prevent this very thing from occurring in parts that will be subjected to heavy vibration, ie. liftoff.
I have seen lots of old reamers that have three sets of two flutes to reduce cutter chatter and it seems to work well.

[leftiye]

Anybody know where to get them there re-bores done?

[swheeler]

Anybody know where to get them there re-bores done?

http://www.35caliber.com/8.html

[skeettx]

Has anyone read my post about whether the 40 is a suitable action for the rebore?

[swheeler]

Has anyone read my post about whether the 40 is a suitable action for the rebore?

If it is suitable for a 30/06 I don't see any reason it is not suitable for 35 Whelen.

[uscra112]

I have read that the smoothest multi flute reamers have odd numbers flutes and they are not evenly spaced....

any truth to that rumour?

Yes, very much so. The best chamber reamers were always made this way.

[uscra112]

http://www.35caliber.com/8.html

Just got a Krag barrel back from Jesse. His turnaround was amazingly short - under two weeks. But I'm gonna have to lap it, it has a loose spot about halfway.

Phil

[waksupi]

Just got a Krag barrel back from Jesse. His turnaround was amazingly short - under two weeks. But I'm gonna have to lap it, it has a loose spot about halfway.

Phil

Thanks for letting people know. Should have never left a shop like that.

[JesterGrin_1]

Phil I would inform Jess of the problem.

I hope you two can work it out. As I plan on a Re-Bore by Jess in the future.