Hey there, what am I doing

[themighty9mm]

Hello all, new to the forum. So please, be gental. I am a memeber of several shooting/related forums.

I have been reloading on a dillon 550 now for about 2-3 years. Have thought about casting my own bullets many times. One of a few things happened everytime I though about it. Either got to lazy to look for sources of lead, flat couldnt find them, or when I did the amount of time and effort simply was not worth the gain. It constantly appeard to be a dying art.

Tried mining range lead but after over an hourish time span only ended up with 4-6 lbs of lead, covered in mud (myself included) Tried contacting local tire shops but either they already had a guy that got it, or they diddnt want to for one reason or another. Had a very hard time coming up with anything signifigant enough to throw the time or money at casting.

A couple days ago that all changed. My work used to make the tracer bullets for the SMAW system. We havnt done that in years. We were going through the year end invintory. And came across 1200 lbs of .280 lead wire that was previously used for SMAW. They were going to scrap it. A friend of mine and I asked if we could have it. They gave us their blessing and we split if 50/50. So now I have a little over 600 lbs of lead and figure it, is a good enough start to make it worth my while. Did the rough math and it should yeild about 33,000+ 124 gr 9mm boolits. Or 357 magnum, or many more 5.56 if I go that route. :Fire:

So now what do I do exactly? I asked on another forum I belong to, and got many responses such as give it to them I might hurt myself lol. One guy mentioned I should trade it for WW alloy, as lead wire is expensive, and a trade could yeild more alloy for me . As for the overall process I'm kind of lost.

One way or the other I know I have to melt the rough lead (WW or lead wire) down to ingots, to be remelted down in a pour pot to be made into boolits.
What equipment will I need for everything from rough lead to final product? One guy also said to get a casting book, I think made by lyman.

What I know I need, gloves, spoon, something of a ingot mold, casting/pour pot, and mold. What else? Whats going to be roughly my total investment in equipment?Any good advice on where to start? Obviously I have alot of poking around to do here as this was one source a fellow gave me to go to.

Thanks for your time
TM9

[troy_mclure]

i recommend trading the lead wire to the swaging guys, you could get quite a bit more alloy. even in convenient ingots of the proper alloy.

the basics are:

bottom pour pot: http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-Production-Pot-Iv/dp/B000NOORXY

a pair of welding gloves, $10

spoon, free.

mould, $20-$200

oak dowel rod for fluxing, $2

lyman cast bullets handbook, $25

the lee 10lb pot generally runs $45-50 at midway.

[txbirdman]

Yeah what troy said. I think you'll be a lot happier with WW alloy in the 9MM and .357 than trying to use pure lead. I always water quench my 9MM's and size to at least .357. I size the .38/.357's to .358.

[462]

Welcome, TM9.

Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, either the 3rd or 4th edition, will more than get you started. In fact, it will supply you with casting and load information for as long as you are interested.

Cost of investment? Where do elephants go to die?

Where to start? Read the stickies and classics, and spend a lot of time perusing the archive.

[nicholst55]

What they said. The swagers will suck up that lead wire without hesitation. I'd post a WTT (Wanted to trade) ad, although technically you're not yet eligible to post ads. If I wasn't 8,000 miles away from home I'd be all over it!

And welcome aboard! Surprised nobody said that yet.

[troy_mclure]

hey nicholst55, what unit you in? i was stationed at cp. hovey, and cp. castle from may 01- mar 03.

[runfiverun]

definately trade it.
even if you get straight across you'll be further ahead.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Welcome TM9. Take some time to read about casting. Be sure to use all the safety gear. 700 degree lead is pretty darn hot and will burn deep and quick. That being said, get ready for a great hobby. You now will be able to cast thousands of boolits and not have to rely on a supplier. You can create the mixture that works best for you and your guns. Turning scrap lead into an accurate round is pretty darn neat. This is no dying art. It's quite alive and well. Have some fun.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Trade a good portion of it, but you will want some of the pure for making alloys down the road.
My 44 likes WW cut with about 10-12 % pure to not lead

[geargnasher]

Definetely trade the lead, especially if it's near pure. You will need something a bit harder for most things, something containing 2-3% antimony and at least one percent tin. You can trade for wheel weight alloy, or if you choose to keep what you have you can add alloys containing high percentages of antimony already alloyed in to make your lead more useful.

I'll second the recommendation to get Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, third edition (4th is ok too, but I still think the third is better and it's still in print). When you finish reading it, you'll have a very good idea of what this is all about and what you need to do, all in one complete package. Once you understand everything in the book, you'll be much more prepared to take this on.

The best "other" resources on the web are this site, especially the "classics and stickes" section, our sister site castpics(dot)net, and lasc(dot)us. The latter, the Los Angeles Silhouette Club, has a wealth of techical articles and complete "books" on casting from A to Z. Lots of information on alloys, fluxing, boolit lube, etc., pay particular attention to articles by Glen Fryxell. Mr. Fryxell and CBRick, the lasc site owner/operator, are both members here as well.

But whatever you do, please do yourself a favor and get the Lyman book. I don't get a kickback from advertising it, but it will shorten your learning curve greatly.

Good luck, and don't be afraid to speak up!

Gear

[themighty9mm]

The lead is 4.5% antimoney and 1% tin. It feels very flimsy but then again its lead and in wire form. At least thats what I have gathered SB and SN to mean. SB being antimony SN being tin. This lead wire was previously used for the lead core in a 9mm projectile for the SMAW rocket system. So if I'mgoing to trade pound for pound I might aswell just keep what I have and save on shipping cost. I could always add antimony or tin I assume.

I will have to get the lyman book, heardthat recomendation several times. Just gotta find a copy, maybe I'll get lucky and find it locally

[WHITETAIL]

tm9mm,Welcome to the forum!:redneck:
And these guys here will steer you right.
They have tons of knowledge.:cbpour:

[loosenuts57]

Mighty9 you came to the right place to find info! I've been lurking here for over a year and I don't think you could find a better site to get the info your looking for.
I picked up the Lyman cast bullet book and found it to be very helpful along with all the stickys here.
Keep checking your local gas stations-- When I first started getting into the idea of casting, many places would let me buy their wheelweights for the same price as they would get at the scrap yard (some even gave me their W/Ws!!). Also, whenever I would get some light iron to scrap, the junkies would trade off their lead for my scrap too. I think I have around 500lbs now of W/W lead to start smelting with.
a reinforced Priority Mail Flat Rate box can give you 60lbs of lead to trade off with someone here on the boards, and shipping aint so bad that way, LOL

[Bret4207]

Better figure on picking up an inexpensive single stage press too.

[mdi]

Trade off some of you lead wire for wheel weight alloy and/or lynotype alloy ingots. That'll get you clean alloy to be mixed with your pure lead. a lot of casters use a 50-50 mix of pure and ww for low pressure rounds (.38 Spec., .44 Spec., 45 ACP, etc.), and the lynotype can be used to harden up some alloy if needed...

But first, Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. I started with a 2 qt. stainless steel pot, a Lyman ladel, a single cavity Lee mold, and a single burner Coleman stove.

[cbrick]

The lead is 4.5% antimoney and 1% tin. It feels very flimsy but then again its lead and in wire form. At least thats what I have gathered SB and SN to mean. SB being antimony SN being tin.

I could always add antimony or tin I assume.

Welcome to CastBoolits Mighty9mm,

As I was reading through this thread I also thought that the lead wire would be nearly pure and should be traded but if it is labeled as 4.5% Sb and 1% Sn you have a gold mine. KEEP IT!

The only thing trading for WW would do is lower your Sb and Sn percentages. 4.5% Sb may be slightly high but that is an outstanding alloy, simply cannot do much better than that. If someone gave me 600 pounds of that I would probably stand there and wet my pants.

By all means get the Lyman cast bullet book but also, must reading for new casters and the old salts alike is the book by Glen E. Fryxell . . . From Ingot To Target. It's a free download, print it out and take it to Kinko's and for about $8.00 you can have it spiral bound.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

Additional articles by Glen E. Fryxell:

http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm

Read all you can and you'll soon be as addicted as the rest of us here. Ask all the questions that you have, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask.

Rick

[BulletFactory]

You struck gold.

Wear safety glasses. There is a learning curve here, but its a fascinating hobby that has great rewards. Its fun to do, and brings your actual shooting costs down to powder and primers. When you're at the range, pick up brass. When you run out of your caliber, trade the other calibers for what you need. This brings your brass cost down to whatever it costs to ship it in the mail.

At the end of the day, I pay about 5.50 / 100 rounds of .,40. Your 9mm will be a little cheaper with those cute little bullets and the smaller powder charges.

[geargnasher]

Yes, KEEP that alloy, it's just perfect for casting boolits just the way it is. We all assumed it was pure lead, but even in wire form you're likely not to improve the value of what you have much by trading it.

Check out the reloading supply houses like Midway, Midsouth, Graf & Son, Natchez, etc. and see if they have copies of the Lyman cast book. While you're at it, you might pick up a copy of the Lyman Reloading Manual, 49th edition. It's bound to go on sale soon as it's getting a bit dated. You might also get Richard Lee's 2nd edition of Modern Reloading, it's an excellent data reference book and has a "different" slant on reloading cast boolits. I got Lee's book for $12 on sale at Midway a while back, for the money it was tough to pass up.

Take Rick's advice also, the resources he mentions are worth their weight in gold, although some of it won't make sense until you get a good general understanding of what the process of turning scrap alloys into boolits is all about.

Gaer

[troy_mclure]

amazon frequently has many casting/reloading books on sale.

[HeavyMetal]

nobody has mentioned it but you need to give some thought to how you'll lube those boolits once you start casting!

At some point, if you haven't already, you'll discover the Lee "tumble Lube" method of boolit casting. This consist of a very slimy concoction of mineral sprits and alox turned into liquid form.

In use the boolits are placed in a small container, such as magerine or cool whiptubs, swirled around in the lube until coated completely and then set out to dry.

On paper this is a nice idea...in practise not so much. You will find opinions both pro and con for this system and I figure you have to make up your own mind on LLA.

I have found it to be an excellent first step in the casting learning curve but think most guys out grow it quick!

My experience was it was time consuming and messy! Particularly with seating dies getting plugged up with the stuff!

Then I found out that it is veocity sensative which means leading.

All these combined add up to even more trouble when you load a 9mm!

Do a search here for 9mm leading and I think you'll find just about everyone of them admits ( finally) that they use LLA as a lube.

Those that lick the problem switch to better lube and or alloy those that don't simply quite posting about the problem.

Now I am not knocking the LLA set up just posting my experience and observations.

LLA does work very well in 38 and 45 target loads as well as some of the lighter loads in other pistol calibers.

Do some research on lubes, molds, and lube sizers before you spend a dime on any thing!

Nothing we do is magic but what we know comes from having made the same mistakes as any other newbie hopefully I've passed on some ideas for you to think about.

As for your lead wire alloy? I think it's a keeper and should be just fine for the 9mm!

Mold suggestions for this caliber and alloy?

Lee:

358-125-RF ( 90574 or 90306) or 356-120-TC (90239 or 90387) either of these designs will work well for you, pending the make and model of your 9mm, they are not tumble lube designs but you can TL them if you want to try that.

I would quench cast,that means drop the casting right into cold water from the mold!

This will require some care as to where and how you place your water container as you need to make sure nothing wet splashes into you casting pot.

Apply some basic safety rules, I posted some on site some place so search for safety and it should come up.

ya got qustions post them we'll help all we can!

[leadman]

Since you have a great casting alloy that should be uniform and I assume it is still pretty clean you do not have to melt into ingots. just melt it in your casting pot, fluw it with your choice of flux, and then make boolits.
Flux can be commercial, wax, sawdust, wood sticks, etc. Try different things and see what you like.
For a pot I really like my RCBS bottom pour but it is over $300 new. Lee makes a couple with the #20 bottom pour being better than #10 bottom pour in my opinion. A bottom pour will help increase your boolit output.
Lee's 6 cavity molds are better quality normally than their 2 cavity and can make a pile of boolits in a hurry. A gas check in the 357 and 5.56 will allow higher velocities but won't be necessary for the 9mm.
There are many ways to lube and size the boolits. It is not always necessary to size.

If you drop the boolits from the hot mold into a bucket of water it may harden your alloy. generally it takes a trace of arsenic to obtain a harder boolit by this method. Your alloy may or may not have arsenic in it. I would cast a few both ways, air cooled and water quenched and see if you can tell a difference. Your alloy may do just fine without WQing.

your have come to the right place to get help starting out. Check the classified ads here for used equipment also.

[themighty9mm]

Yes, KEEP that alloy, it's just perfect for casting boolits just the way it is. We all assumed it was pure lead, but even in wire form you're likely not to improve the value of what you have much by trading it.

Check out the reloading supply houses like Midway, Midsouth, Graf & Son, Natchez, etc. and see if they have copies of the Lyman cast book. While you're at it, you might pick up a copy of the Lyman Reloading Manual, 49th edition. It's bound to go on sale soon as it's getting a bit dated. You might also get Richard Lee's 2nd edition of Modern Reloading, it's an excellent data reference book and has a "different" slant on reloading cast boolits. I got Lee's book for $12 on sale at Midway a while back, for the money it was tough to pass up.

Take Rick's advice also, the resources he mentions are worth their weight in gold, although some of it won't make sense until you get a good general understanding of what the process of turning scrap alloys into boolits is all about.

Gaer

I currently own the lyman 49th the speer dot remember and I beleive a hornaday aswell. Not in my loading room to check. I'll get the lyman casting manual this weeked sometime

[44man]

Welcome to CastBoolits Mighty9mm,

As I was reading through this thread I also thought that the lead wire would be nearly pure and should be traded but if it is labeled as 4.5% Sb and 1% Sn you have a gold mine. KEEP IT!

The only thing trading for WW would do is lower your Sb and Sn percentages. 4.5% Sb may be slightly high but that is an outstanding alloy, simply cannot do much better than that. If someone gave me 600 pounds of that I would probably stand there and wet my pants.

By all means get the Lyman cast bullet book but also, must reading for new casters and the old salts alike is the book by Glen E. Fryxell . . . From Ingot To Target. It's a free download, print it out and take it to Kinko's and for about $8.00 you can have it spiral bound.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

Additional articles by Glen E. Fryxell:

http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm

Read all you can and you'll soon be as addicted as the rest of us here. Ask all the questions that you have, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask.

Rick
YES, it should be good. I was taken aback by the alloy as it is. Go for it.
I too thought it was pure at the start but kept thinking of why they would use pure lead.