.405 Winchester

[RJM52]

Was wondering if anyone out there is casting and shooting the RCBS 350 grain .416 bullet in their .405....

What gun are you shooting it from and what are you sizing it...

Thanks....Bob

[405]

No, not that bullet. But it might work ok. It may depend on the type of rifle and the bore twist. I know the OAL of the original 405 Win cartridge is 3.18 and was for the Win 95 lever. So if for a 95 lever gun then the nose length of the bullet from tip to the crimp groove plus the case length may be a factor. The other would be the twist of your bore. The original is 14" but what the twist is of a given single shot barrel or one of the modern 405 95 Brwnchesters... I dunno? The original bullet for the 405 with that 14" twist was a 300 gr. Jbullet and of a long roundnose design.

I load an original 405 in a Win 95 with a Mountain Molds bullet of just over 300 gr. It's a conventional GG, gas checked bullet sized to .415. The groove diameter of my original 95 is .414. I use a mild load of 5744 with dacron filler for a muz vel of about 1600 fps that yields good accuracy, has reasonable recoil and is easy on the 100+ year old gun.

[416Rodney]

RJM-

I use the RCBS 350 gr. gas check in my 1895 Win. recent production. The barrel slugs .412 so they are sized .414. I load with 47.0 grains of RL-7 for about 2150 fps. Boy, does it hit hard. It's what I carry in the mountains here. Say, if you want to have some fun, take the 210 grain .41 Mag XTP and load 32.5 grains of Lit'l Gun for turning jack rabbits insideout.

[RJM52]

Thanks for the replies... I have four .405s... A recent Winchester 1895, Ruger stainless #1, Winchester 1885 Sporter and a TC Encore.

I've only had time to load some Hornady 300s and some Speer 210 Gold Dot HPs... Have a bunch of bullets from 170 grain Sierra HPs to 400 grain Shell, Woodleigh and Hornady SPs and FMJs to "play" with. Just stared casting again after too many years away. Saw on another forum that somone had used the RCBS but didn't list a load...

Thanks again for the replies...

Was also wondering is anyone has done any hunting with their .405 and what they had used for loads. I handgun hunted most of this deer season but really want to hunt with the .405s this coming fall...

Bob

[405]

I'd say you have a good variety to experiment with! Odds are better than even that at least one of those rifles will like the RCBS 350. You might slug the bores of those rifles and get the bore and groove diameters to compare to the expected as cast diameter out of the mold. Sizing down a few thous usually doesn't cause any problems but having to size down too much may. Cast bullets and straight walled cases of most all calibers usually get along very well together. My original 95 405 is near pristine so no I don't hunt with it. I have a close twin in 35 Win that I do hunt with. Either of those cartridges is plenty of cartridge for most NA spp. or African game for that matter. Both are almost too much for deer and smaller. But they can easily be loaded down a bit as accuracy and "shootability" are equally important to sheer brute power for hunting purposes.

[RJM52]

405...I have always been interested in the 35 Winchester... What bullets and loads do you use?

Bob

[405]

Since it is a bottleneck it is not as cast bullet friendly as the 405. But, as with the 405, I keep the cast loads down around 1600 fps. The RCBS 200 FN GC and 5744 with dacron filler seems to work well. For higher power Jbullet loads in that 2000-2100 fps range, the Hornady 200 gr RN and the Sierra 225 gr Game King do well with most of the medium burn rate powders in the 4895 to 4350 range. V V N140 did as well as any and it is in that burn rate range. Not that it is the only, best powder for that use but I had some extra and it worked well when I was load testing the 35 Win.

Here's the "big" W95s in the stable. Top is 35 Win, DOM 1903. Bottom is 405 Win, DOM 1904. Both carry original Climbin' Lyman apertures. The leather butt covers are not so much for padding but for protecting the butt plates and to flatten the steel crescent plates.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I've got an original 95 in good shape and have been loading for it over many years. I couldn't get brass in the beginning so made my own out of 30-40 Krag cases by fireforming them. They worked ok but were a 1/4" too short. later on I picked up 405 brass from Hornady. I've always used the Lyman #412263 mold; a single cav that weighs about 300 grains. It drops bullets at .412-.413 which is ok. I've used medium charges of medium powders and gotten decent grouping without resorting to fast loads. With a 300 grain bullet you can step things up to 2200 fps which is around factory spec for hunting; it delivers a lot of ME but the recoil becomes a lot more noticeable. As such it is more than adequate for anything you might meet in the woods anywhere in the western hemisphere. LLS

[StrawHat]

I have an original Winchester 1895 I had reworked to handle the 405 WCF. I also use the Lyman 412263. I cast mine from 30/1 and load them over 28 grains of 5744. A decent load that seems to work on white tailed deer. 3031 is a powder I need to try. I try to keep my everyday loads around the level of the 40-72. Full powered 405 WCF is reserved for the big game animals I only dream about hunting!

[405]

Full powered 405 WCF is reserved for the big game animals I only dream about hunting!

So true- we can always dream :)

TR Africa with Win 95- 405 (pic courtesy RL Wilson-Winchester)

[StrawHat]

For some of us, dreams are all there are left! I still enjoy going out for deer but doubt if I will even get out west again, or to Alaska, let alone Africa! No regrets, but dreams!!

[frank505]

Have been shooting that bullet since the gun was reintroduced. 56 grains of 4895, 53 grains of Re7 are my two loads. It is a good hammer in the mountains, killed my best elk ever with it. Will even tip over picket pins fairly well!!!!!!!!! Crimps in the groove supplied by the mold and functions perfectly in my 1895 repro.

[Nrut]

Was wondering if anyone out there is casting and shooting the RCBS 350 grain .416 bullet in their .405....

What gun are you shooting it from and what are you sizing it...

Thanks....Bob
My RCBS .416/350gr. casts a bullet that weighs 366grs. out of straight WW..
I size/lube/gc it in a .317" Star sizing die then a .413" push thru die to shoot it in my Ruger #1..
I think I could probably go up to a .414 or .415" push thru but it's been awhile since I fooled with it and would have to check my notes..
IIRC I was using H4895 for powder..

[RJM52]

Thanks for all the information guys... The only reason I ended up with .405s was a friend who owned the Winchester 95 I eventually bought asked me to get some reloading components for him...that is when I found out that the .405 wasn't a .405 but a .411....and having tons of .410 pistol bullets around I thought this would be a good way to burn some of them up...

Just got an email from a friend in Texas I used to hunt with. He shot two deer earlier in the month with his 1895 Takedown using 300 grain NorthFork bullets... Pricy bullets but he likes them...

Bob

[RJM52]

..well it has only been two years and a few months but I finally got the mould and cast some bullets up in February...just got done sizing them to .413 and will be trying them soon.

Sold off the Ruger last year and had the barrel on the Encore cut down to 20" to match the 500 S&W and .50 BP barrels...makes it handier from a tree stand.

So how is everyone else progressing with their .405s? Any more big game down?

Has anyone run fun loads with Unique? If not Unique any reduced loads tried would be appreciated.

Bob

[lotech]

The RCBS bullets I cast from ww weigh almost 370 grains. I've had good luck with 36 grs. Reloder 7 (1663 fps), 32 grs. IMR4198 (1554), and 30 grs. AA5744 (1587).

[RJM52]

Well I am getting closer.... Was out west for three months so didn't get to do any shooting with the .405 before I left.

Now have the RCBS mold and it is throwing a 360 grain bullet lubed with gas check on. Also have a 305 grain flat point from Mountain Molds and should do some loading soon...just wish this snow would go away...

Anyone else doing anything with their .405s?

Bob

[StrawHat]

I am still loading the Lyman 412263 over 5744 and liking it. I did not shoot it last year, was concentrating on the 50-70, but still have loaded ammunition available. Maybe when the snow melts!

Kevin

[Clay M]

I have done a lot of loading for the .405 Win. REL 7 powder is the best I have used so far..
I am using an Accurate Mold that throws a 325grain GC bullet. I use the Hornady .416 gas checks and size the bullets .414 The barrel on my Ruger #1 slugs .412 I am getting great accuracy with 43 grs of Rel 7
I am very thankful for the Hornady brass and dies.I also use a tapered expander plug from Buffalo arms.
It is tapered for .414-.411 works great in my RCBS die and I get no shaved lead when seating the bullets..If you are shaving lead,then you need to pull the bullets and start over..
That plug was a good investment suggest by someone here on the forum. It was the final missing link to accuracy..

[crash87]

Heres a post i did a while back on my 1885 in 405 WCF. While the bullet isnt what your asking about the loads should give you some Idea's.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?145159-Finally-A-Winchester-1885
CRASH87

[hockeynick39]

Been playing around with my original Winchester 1895 TD Deluxe a little bit before the snow flew this year. As soon as I get enough melt to be able to drag all my equipment back to the range, I'll be back at it. Started out with some Hawk bullets, but they didn't work out to well, then went on to Woodleigh 300 gr SN moving around 2150 fps, which is really darn close to the original factory ammo and was done with H322.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/mypictures966.jpg

I got into casting some pistol bullets for my S&W 625 JM, S&W 27,and S&W 57, the rifles followed shortly after starting with the .405 Winchester. Amazingly enough the barrel slugged at .4125 and I got a sizing die at .413 for my Lyman 4500. I was having difficulties finding a decent source for gas checks, so I went to Pat Marlin and order a PB Checkmaker and then requested (Tom?) Accurate Molds to make a PB 411325 mold for me.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/405WinchesterPBMoldDrawing001_zpscceaa471.jpg

The PB Checkmaker and the mold arrived in fairly short order,so I began to cast boolits from COWWs that had a BHN of 12-14 after 10 days AC. At that point I would size and check the boolits, then heat treat about 50 at a time at 425F for 1 hour and then immediately dump them into room temperature water for cooling. After 7 days these have a BHN of between 18-22, depending on if they were in the middle or on the edge of the basket and then lubed with a 50/50 of beeswax and NGLI.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/Accurate41-325B003_zps946ce758.jpg

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/Accurate41-325B002_zps88e23a98.jpg

This was the last target I shot before the snow flew which is not the greatest, but am still working on the loads.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/405Winchester001_zps1dc5088b.jpg

Still have some Woodleigh's left paired up with some of the cast loads for a little comparison.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/Bullets007_zps1949589c.jpg

Like I said, still working on the loads and may even switch to a different powder and may even try sizing them to .414. I do have a Ruger #1 in .405 Winchester, but have that reserved for some Barnes 300 gr TSX I worked up to a chono'd 2550 fps and have only been able to recover one fully flowered slug that was buried about 24" into a wet sand berm from 100 yards. I don't believe penetration to be too much of a problem with this load. Good luck and stay safe.

[Clay M]

I have the exact same 325gr Accurate mold, but mine was made to accept the Hornady .416 gas check.
With 43 grains of Rel 7 I have chronographed it at 2000 fps. I am using 80% WW and 20% Lino with Carnauba Red lube. Sized .414 in the Ruger I am getting no leading..The Nose also fits very tight..
I have not tried this load in my Winchesters yet.. That will be the next project..
With the Ruger I can usually get three shot into 1.5" at 100 yds.Sometime better.
I do water drop the bullet too..
I think if I weighed all the bullets it might help some too.
I am using a large block brass double cavity mold, and most of the bullets look great..
The groups are always nice and round..I use Fed 210 BR primers.
I love your rifle Hockeynick39
I have two originals made in 1913 they both have perfect bores..
One has a rifle stock with a cresent buttplate. I use it for hunting because I could care less about the recoil when I hunt.. One shot usually.. The other is a Shotgun butt rifle stamped Lyon,and Lyon Calcutta India.I assume it was used to hunt tigers back in the day..

I love the .405 win and it's rich history with Theodore Roosevelt..
It is still one hell of a round..
It has been very deadly on everything I have used it on, within the expected range of use..
I guess you can tell it is one of my three favorite cartridges in existence. The other two are the .45/70 and the .308 win.
I also love the .270 win ,but I only use it for killing..

[RJM52]

What great posts guys!!!

Bob

[Clay M]

I have been told that Rel 10 is also a great powder for the .405 win. I will get around to trying it sooner or later. Rel 7 has been fantastic. I like to load the round with cast bullets to around 2000fps.. The recoil is still manageable and the accuracy very good..

[snowwolfe]

Resurfacing this thread as I enjoyed reading it. Maybe some of you will update it as well. My 405 is waiting to be fed:)

[RJM52]

Another bump for a great thread...

I have been neglectful of my .405s...a shoulder injury last year slowed things up quite a bit. Going to mainly shoot cast bullets out of mine now...

Anyone hunting with their .405 this year?

Bob

[hockeynick39]

Probably, but going to be re-visiting this with some IMR 3031 to see if I can get some better groups.

[RJM52]

My poor .405s have been sitting unshot for too many years...hoping to remedy that shortly...
How about the rest of you guns...still hunting with yours?