need help with bullet molb selection for 44 mag

[robhrtsll]

Need help selecting a mold for a 44 magnum. some load data would be good to

[nighthunter]

Welcome Robhrtsll ... For the 44 Mag I don't think you could go wrong with Lymans 429421. Its a 245 grain swc that shoots well with a lot of different powders. This makes different power levels possible with one good bullet. It has a proven track record for at least 50 years.
Nighthunter

[Ricochet]

For a higher production rate, consider the Lee 429-240-SWC. Available in a six-cavity mould. I've got a slightly heavier version of the same design, 429-255-SWC (now discontinued), and it shoots well. Every powder company's loading data site has data for 240 grain .44 Magnums. It's a very flexible cartridge.

[fecmech]

Robhrtsll--I'd second Nighthunters recommendation of 429421, shoots well from mild to wild loads and with many different powders. Restricted to one bullet in the .44 Mag it would be my choice. Nick

[leftiye]

Lyman's claccic 429244 is a gas checked version of the 421 which is the kieth design. You didn't say what type of loads appeal to you. The gas checks tend to make full house loads a little easier to make accurate/ and reduce leading.

You can't beat H110 (23-24 grs is about max) for these full house loads, 2400 (22.0 grs is the classic max load) is probably just as good. For less hot, but still butt kicking loads I like Blue Dot.

[robhrtsll]

do you get much barrel leading with hot loads. All I have ever shoot has been 45acp 700 to 900 fps with lead . no leading there but just got ruger 44 needing some guidance on that thanks

[Bass Ackward]

do you get much barrel leading with hot loads. All I have ever shoot has been 45acp 700 to 900 fps with lead . no leading there but just got ruger 44 needing some guidance on that thanks

Rob,

The answer is in the bullet fit. Fit it too small or hard for the pressure you are running and you will lead like crazy at even low velocity.

[Newtire]

Need help selecting a mold for a 44 magnum. some load data would be good to

Lyman 429244 gas check gets my vote too. I used 12 gr. BlueDot for a load that was easy on the recoil and most accurate load in my old 3-screw Ruger I had.

[hunter64]

That is the nice thing about the .44 mag, you can shoot it so mild you would swear that you were shooting a .38 spl, 6-7 grn of Unique and trailboss are great for that. If you want full power than just as leftiye said 2400 works well also. The 429421 is my favorite also and lee's 240 grain tumble lube bullet is ok other than you have to work with the tumble lube, messy and stinks like hell.

[Lloyd Smale]

My favorite is the rcbs 250 kt. It usually outshoots the 429421s in my guns.

[Char-Gar]

You asking about rifle or pistol 44 mag bullet?

[Dale53]

When you ask for bullet advice in the .44 magnum, it is CRITICAL, to have information as to whether it is for a rifle or a pistol. The Keith bullet design is my favorite for the revolver but IT WILL NOT WORK IN MOST LEVER ACTION RIFLES. It is too long in .44 mag cases for it to feed.

One of the Round Flat designs will work MUCH better in .44 mag lever rifles (and also work well in revolvers). Lyman's 429667 in 240 grs or Lee's 429-200-RF in 200 grs should work just fine. Lever action rifles can sometimes be particular about what feeds well. You are nearly always safe with the RF design in rifles (and they still work just DANDY (highly technical term:-D) in revolvers.

Dale53

[robhrtsll]

Thanks for all the help, sorry for being slack on giving you not enough info. I will be loading for super blackhawk hunter series 7.5 barrel lenght. I like the sound of loads using unique and bullseye since i always have them on hand for 45acp loads.thanks again

[MtGun44]

RCBS 44-250-K (or KT?) is a sorta copy of 429421. I have used
at least 5 different Lyman 429421 molds, some with different
grease grooves, etc, but with the same mold #. I have posted
that I have NEVER gotten a single good group with the 429244
Thompson gascheck bullet in MANY different .44s. OTOH, I am
in the distinct minority with that result, as many claim excellent
results. I am not smart enough to make them work. As a general
rule, avoid the hassle and expense of gas check if you can, and
with the 429421s of proper size, alloy and lube (and there are
many combos that work) you will get zero leading at even
max velocity in a good .44. The biggest deal is fitting the bullet
to the revolver throat diameter, and ensuring that the throat is
equal to or (ideally) .001" greater than the actual MEASURED
groove diam of the bbl. Current production .44 mag S&Ws are
exactly right on dimensionally from personal experience with
multiple copies. I have reliable reports that current Rugers
have good dimensions, while older Rugers were generally
too tight in the throat, but relatively easily fixable. Oversized
throats is a serious problem; new cyl or sell gun to someone
not so picky. Many think that a revolver can only shoot 6"
at 25 yds so are happy with one that does.

I go for the RCBS first with the Lyman a close second. If you
can find an old square bottomed grease groove, the hot word
is they are better. However, I have had good results with the
round bottomed and square bottomed lube groove in multiple
guns. Avoid the gaschecks as they are not necessary with
proper hardness (not TOO HARD!) and diam bullets and
good lube.

Avoid Bullseye in the .44 mag. 10 gr Unique behind the 429421 or
RCBS is EXTREMELY accurate in MANY .44s and goes about
1050 in most, maybe a bit more in a 7.5" bbl. If all is well, expect
1.5" or better for 5 shots at 25 yds. One ragged hole is common.

YMMV

Bill

[Mallard57]

[QUOTE][My favorite is the rcbs 250 kt. It usually outshoots the 429421s in my guns./QUOTE]
Loyd,
I have a Super Blackhawk with .432 throats, I was wondering if you could tell me what diameter your RCBS mould drops that 250 gr. KT?
Thanks,
Jeff

[Newtire]

IT WILL NOT WORK IN MOST LEVER ACTION RIFLES. It is too long in .44 mag cases for it to feed.

One of the Round Flat designs will work MUCH better Lever action rifles can sometimes be particular about what feeds well. You are nearly always safe with the RF design in rifles (and they still work just DANDY (highly technical term:-D) in revolvers.

Dale53

I found that I had to seat the 429244 over the top band to get it to feed in my .444 Marlin. It is one very accurate boolit in that gun but can't say what it will do in a .44 mag. lever rifle/gun. It absolutely won't feed unless seated that deeply. Using either 23 gr. Alliant 2400 or 20.5 gr. BlueDot with that boolit, it makes a ragged hole every time at 50 yds. It shoots in my Ruger .44 mag. rifle seated over the top band again but not as good as the Ranch Dog design so I don't bother anymore with it. I size to .431 & use Hardened WW at about 18 BHN with Felix-Lube or Liquid Alox.

[AZ Pete]

[QUOTE][My favorite is the rcbs 250 kt. It usually outshoots the 429421s in my guns./QUOTE]
Loyd,
I have a Super Blackhawk with .432 throats, I was wondering if you could tell me what diameter your RCBS mould drops that 250 gr. KT?
Thanks,
Jeff


Jeff, I also have a 250 KT. It casts straight wheel weights at .430

[Mallard57]

[QUOTE][/Jeff, I also have a 250 KT. It casts straight wheel weights at .430QUOTE]
Thanks for the info AZ Pete.
Jeff

[Lloyd Smale]

my 250k casts .431 out of #2 and the 250swc casts at .432 out of the same. At least thats what my calipers say but there not 200 dollar calipers! I size them both to .431 and they do size down a tad so im guessing they could be slightly bigger or my die is slightly smaller then marked. Never worried enough about it to really check.

[Dale53]

Newtire;
"I found that I had to seat the 429244 over the top band to get it to feed in my .444 Marlin.

I have a problem using the Keith AND the 429244 in a lever rifle if it is necessary to crimp over the front band. Granted, they CAN work, and work well. However, lever action rifles apply rather heavy force on the nose of the bullet from the magazine spring and follower. This can cause the bullet to "deep seat". Deep seating past the intended overall length reduces the case capacity (obviously) which can raise pressures through the roof (not so obvious). You can get away with crimping over the front band if the bullet is supported by a compressed load of powder (for instance, this is commonly done with black powder) but it is not an idea I am comfortable with in general. Those crimping grooves are there for a purpose, particularly for a tubular magazine rifle (of any type).

If you think that I am being paranoid, talk to the legions of people who have had "Kabooms" with auto pistols that occurred because of deep seating caused by a bullet with insufficient crimp or bullet tension hitting the feed ramp.

Dale53

[Mallard57]

[QUOTE][/my 250k casts .431 out of #2 and the 250swc casts at .432 out of the same. At least thats what my calipers say but there not 200 dollar calipers! I size them both to .431 and they do size down a tad so im guessing they could be slightly bigger or my die is slightly smaller then marked. Never worried enough about it to really check.
QUOTE]
Thanks,
Looks like I should wait for the next Keith Group Buy.

[Lloyd Smale]

Mtgun is right about the 429421 being made in a few differnt styles. Ive got a 4 cavity in one of the round grove version and a 4 in one of the square and I yet to see the round grove version turn in outstanding accuracy in any gun. Its a good plinking bullet but imo lyman ruined a decent bullet when they changed it.
RCBS 44-250-K (or KT?) is a sorta copy of 429421. I have used
at least 5 different Lyman 429421 molds, some with different
grease grooves, etc, but with the same mold #. I have posted
that I have NEVER gotten a single good group with the 429244
Thompson gascheck bullet in MANY different .44s. OTOH, I am
in the distinct minority with that result, as many claim excellent
results. I am not smart enough to make them work. As a general
rule, avoid the hassle and expense of gas check if you can, and
with the 429421s of proper size, alloy and lube (and there are
many combos that work) you will get zero leading at even
max velocity in a good .44. The biggest deal is fitting the bullet
to the revolver throat diameter, and ensuring that the throat is
equal to or (ideally) .001" greater than the actual MEASURED
groove diam of the bbl. Current production .44 mag S&Ws are
exactly right on dimensionally from personal experience with
multiple copies. I have reliable reports that current Rugers
have good dimensions, while older Rugers were generally
too tight in the throat, but relatively easily fixable. Oversized
throats is a serious problem; new cyl or sell gun to someone
not so picky. Many think that a revolver can only shoot 6"
at 25 yds so are happy with one that does.

I go for the RCBS first with the Lyman a close second. If you
can find an old square bottomed grease groove, the hot word
is they are better. However, I have had good results with the
round bottomed and square bottomed lube groove in multiple
guns. Avoid the gaschecks as they are not necessary with
proper hardness (not TOO HARD!) and diam bullets and
good lube.

Avoid Bullseye in the .44 mag. 10 gr Unique behind the 429421 or
RCBS is EXTREMELY accurate in MANY .44s and goes about
1050 in most, maybe a bit more in a 7.5" bbl. If all is well, expect
1.5" or better for 5 shots at 25 yds. One ragged hole is common.

YMMV

Bill

[seabreeze133]

429215 at 3 WW/2 linotype w/24 gr IMR 4227 is fast and accurate to 100 meters. 1550 fps from a 10" SBH.

429244 w/same alloy and powder charge. Accurate to 200 meters. Don't remember the velocity.

Cheers

Don

[Newtire]

Newtire;
"I found that I had to seat the 429244 over the top band to get it to feed in my .444 Marlin.

I have a problem using the Keith AND the 429244 in a lever rifle if it is necessary to crimp over the front band., lever action rifles apply rather heavy force on the nose of the bullet from the magazine spring and follower. This can cause the bullet to "deep seat". Deep seating past the intended overall length reduces the case capacity (obviously) which can raise pressures through the roof (not so obvious).
If you think that I am being paranoid, talk to the legions of people who have had "Kabooms" with auto pistols that occurred because of deep seating caused by a bullet with insufficient crimp or bullet tension hitting the feed ramp.

Dale53


Hi Dale,
I hear you on the deep seating problem raising pressures & all. Good you mentioned it. Sometimes it takes more than one set of eyes to spot a potential problem. In my .444 Marlin, the taper in the case holds the boolit from receding I would think. It has the look of a snake that has swallowed a frog. I use the Lee factory crimp on all those and also on the .44 mag. It puts a nice little set of indentations into the boolit so it won't go anywhere. I guess if you were roll crimping, this would definitely be an issue. I use that little Lee 200 gr. and also the Lee 215 gr. in my .444 with real light charges of BlueDot and lately found a bit lighter load of Unique puts em in the same place and is just as accurate.