BPCR Loads for Original Trapdoor Carbine

[Rafsob]

I have some black powder cartridge reloads that I use in my Trapdoor rifle, but they seemed a little too stout for my carbine. I am using a 405 gr. RNFP bullet and 65 grs. of BP. I can remember reading that this was a little too heavy for the short carbines and the government down sized the powder charge. I can't remember what the charge was, can someone help me?

If I down size the charge, I will have to use some form of filler I suppose. I know some of my CAS parts use Cream of wheat, but a friend said there is something much better. If so where can I get some of this stuff?

[Boz330]

55gr was the carbine load. You might find that load will give enough case density to work. Other wise the COW will work or just card or cork wads. I have tried Kapok in several different BP and smokeless loads but in all cases that I tried accuracy sucked. YMMV.

Bob

[Larry Gibson]

I use the Lee 459-400-HB to replicate the 45-55 carbine load in my TD carbine.

Primarily I use a duplex load because it keeps the fouling way down allowing me to shoot 100+ rounds without any appreciable fouling to build up to cause inaccuracy. In WW cases with WLR primers I use 5 gr 4759 over the primer and then 49 gr GOEX Cartridge on top of that. No wads are necessary as the bullet slightly compresses the load when seated to crimp over the front driving band. Velocity is 1140 fps and it is regulated to the ranges on the M1879 TypeIII rear sight to 800 yards (I haven't shot it beyond that).

With a straight BP load it takes 59 gr of FFFG Goex or Cartridge to equal the 1140 fps of the duplex load. Accuracy is not quite as good as the duplex load but plenty good enough. I swab the barrel out every 15 -20 shots to maintain accuracy. Best accuracy is with the 1st 10 shots out of the clean barrel before the BP fouling builds up too much. However, a straight 20 shots will stay on a 12" "A" bullet at 200 yards from a sitting position (no sticks or other support) wiht the 1st 5-8 shots capable of "V" ring.

Larry Gibson

[Rafsob]

thanks guys for the response. I knew I wasn't seeing things. I found it if one of my trapdoor books. It was 55 grs. of powder for the carbine. I am using wads in my rifle cartridges, but now will go to store and get some cream of wheat for filler.

[NickSS]

The carbine cartridge was loaded with a 405 gr hb bullet and 55 gr of BP. The army used three ways to load this ammo. The first used card wads to take up the space. The army found that accuracy suffered so the went to loading a cardboard tube into the case to reduce its capacity to 55 gr. This worked and was used until the army changed from the original copper cartridge case with inside priming to a brass CF case. The brass case was less capacity that the old copper cases so the army just seated the bullet further into the case without any wads. They used these in carbines all during the 1880s and 90s up until the cavalry was all rearmed with the Krag. I have loaded the same loads and they work just fine for me. Lately I have been making Chicken loads for my 45-70 using 50 gr FFG and pufflon fill. It is working pretty good for me so fart using my 535 gr postel bullet.

[Rafsob]

Lately I have been making Chicken loads for my 45-70 using 50 gr FFG and pufflon fill. It is working pretty good for me so fart using my 535 gr postel bullet.

What is pufflon and where can you get it???

[Boz330]

What is pufflon and where can you get it???

Do an internet search, it should come right up.

Bob

[DoctorBill]

Puff-Lon

http://www.pufflon.com/newfront.html

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=161841&CAT=4118

I can't find it anywhere else....

Bought some but have not used it.....been using PolyEster Batting.
Cotton Balls seem to work - pull the cotton off in fluffy tufts.

Cream-Of-Wheat tends to pack up into a hard plug and for shouldered
brass could blow the case neck.

I have seen where some fellows mix some BP or smokeless with the COW,
probably to make sure it fragments instead of going out as a hard plug. (?)

COW is a "Food Grade" material (protein and starch) with a certain degree of
resident moisture and was never intended to sit packed into a brass cartridge
above any form of gunpowder.
I've had it harden up into a dense plug over time.
How do I know that ?
I realized that I had made a mistake and kinetically pulled the slugs out of the cases.
What I found was COW hardened into a dense hard plug that I had to drill out and break
up with picking tools !
Imagine that being forced out at high pressure thru a restricted shoulder of the case...

I have used OVEN DRIED coffee grounds - dried filler shouldn't harden up
like COW has done for me.

For What It's Worth.

If you don't think what I said is true - why not experiment ?
Compress some COW into an old empty case with a used primer in it and cover it with
a slug as if you were loading a powder charge.
Let it set a month and then pull the slug and see what you've got inside...
I would be interested in what you find.
Would probably depend on what the local humidity was when loaded, the age of the
COW, how it was stored, it's lot number (?)...etc.
Might work fine in Arizona - maybe not if you're in Florida and it contains Cockroach dump.
Have fun being scientific about it instead of following someone's opinion -
pulled out of their nether regions.

DoctorBill

[Rafsob]

thanks for the response Doc. I checked it out and it appears to be something I may try. Thanks pal.

[otterdriver]

Boz,
You still boring holes in the sky?
Chris