Bio Desil Fuel

[Boz330]

Anyone tried it? A station close by is offering it and it is a little cheaper (.05). I have heard that it really cleans out the system up to and including clogging up the fuel filter.

Bob

[coyotebait]

Biodiesel can have a solvent effect and "clean out the system" but the crud may clog your fuel filter. It can also have better lubricity which can reduce wear in the fuel system as compared to the ultra low sulfer fuels now available. What blend was at the pump (B5, B10, B20)?

[Boz330]

I don't know, just saw a sign out front on my way home from work yesterday. I'll be taking the truck home this evening and thought I'd fill up on the way home since it is the best price around.

Bob

[geargnasher]

Biodiesel is a much better lubricant by itself than petroleum diesel, but it has a very low cetane number and produces less power. Don't be skeered of it, though. You should be checking and replacing your fuel filters very frequently anyway, and maybe even install a good in-line separator/prefilter assembly before the stock filter.

Gear

[scrapcan]

in my 97 F250 I got 4 to 7 mpg better running b20 in summer. I did not have access to B20 compatible anti-gel nor did anyone else in the area at the time so it was only sold in non cold months. that was in 2007-2009. Have not seen it locally since that time.

As a side note, the 2000 got 3-5 mpg less on b20 until we tweaked a programmer to change the engine timing. It then was equal to running dino diesel in both power and mileage (pulling a 24 ft feather lite stock-combo trailer with 3 to 4 horses in it).

I had one issues with oring leaks in the fuel/water separator drain on the 97. That is one thing to think about and check on depending on what. I thought it was just due to the B20. But about a year later ou 200 f250 developed the same leak from running new ultra low sulphur fuel. replaced those orings with viton and no problems since.

[GabbyM]

You don't want over 5% at any time.

It's best to stay away from the stuff. That way when they slip it in on you it will get blended down with fuel in your tank. I'm surprised they are advertising it. Usually they try to hide the sticker down low on the pump away from the meter display.

We've a tractor waiting a $10,500 repair bill from a guy who thought he'd help save the world and run Bio in a 35 year old John Deer.

I’ve a VW diesel. VW says not to run over 5% because of the change in viscosity. Hard on the Bosch fuel system. I try to stay completely away from the stuff. Around here that isn’t easy. If they’d keep it down to 2% as they should I’d not worry about it. BD adds lubricity and increases cetane. .02% is all you need to get the benefits. After 2% your fuel mileage drops in a curve due to lower BTU. So if they are selling 5% (B5) for a nickel less you’ll loose money due to drop in economy. If it’s B20 don’t pump it unless you’re out of fuel. I’d not burn it if it was free and that’s a fact.

[geargnasher]

ManleyJT, those drain valve o-rings are a "pattern" failure from '94 until 2003 when the 6.0L came out. I make it a policy to sell a new one every time I replace a fuel filter because I've been burned too many times with them coming back leaking and the customer saying "ever since you.....". Don't blame the fuel, blame the engineers.

Gear

[JeffinNZ]

Bio diesel is great. My idea is to get all the obese people, put them into a 'farm' and lipo off the fat and run my truck on it. Everyone's a winner that way....... :-)

[Larry Gibson]

Biodiesel added to regular #2 at 5% is required here and in numerous other states. Last year I went on a 10,000+ mile road trip to Florida and back pulling my 5th wheel trailer with my Silverado DuraMax. Every mile and every gallon was checked and tracked. Where I was running biodiesel I got 2 -3 less MPG and noticeably less power. At 60 MPH on the freeways in 6ht gear cruise control it would shift into 5th gear on the slightest hill or headwind where with straight #2 diesel it would not. Then there is the good news......I got to actually pay more for the biodiesel mix than straight #2 diesel......go figure:cry:

Larry Gibson

[BruceB]

Biodiesel has quite a few attractions, BUT.....

I work at an UNDERGROUND gold mine here in Nevada. In the confines of an underground mine with a great deal of heavy diesel equipment (e.g.: 36-ton trucks, etc.) the air pollution from the diesels is a very serious concern.

We went to 100% biodiesel, and cut our "diesel particulate" emissions by over NINETY per cent, which is an incredible gain in air quality and hence reduced health issues for our people.

There is a catch. Right now the winter air temps can be as low as ten or twenty degrees below zero, Fahrenheit. (The mine is exactly one mile above sea level.)

When biodiesel arrives at the minesite in its tanker trucks, it MUST be pumped underground immediately if the air temp is even close to freezing, or it WILL gel and give us horrendous trouble. Hard experience has repeatedly proven this fact.

The minor amount of biodiesel used in "pump" fuel (for road use) is probably altered by suppliers somewhat as weather changes through the year. I note that the signs say the fuel MAY contain up to X% of biodiesel. Never noticed any ill effects in my personal diesels so far.

[scrapcan]

George,

Yep I knew about the issues with the orings not being spec'd right. The thing is there was enough of varnish/trash/etc to plug the gap, until things cleaned out or the fuel viscosity changed. had a few other things crop up after the switch to ultra low sulphur diesel on the 97. All good now though.

tuning the engines program a bit really helps. specifically changing the timing. It helped immensely with running dino diesel also.

[Storydude]

I had to run Bio when I made this trip out west. Couldn;t find #2 anywhere west past ohio, till Colorado.

All it successfully did in my 84 IDI Ford was create 4 fuel leaks from rubber lines, drop MPG from 10.3 to 9.1, and run 20Db quieter.

Given the choice, I would have run farm dyed diesel instead of the Bio **** that caused me nothing but grief and hemmorage cash.

[Pigslayer]

I had to run Bio when I made this trip out west. Couldn;t find #2 anywhere west past ohio, till Colorado.

All it successfully did in my 84 IDI Ford was create 4 fuel leaks from rubber lines, drop MPG from 10.3 to 9.1, and run 20Db quieter.

Given the choice, I would have run farm dyed diesel instead of the Bio **** that caused me nothing but grief and hemmorage cash.

"Farm Dyed"/"Off Road" can be a big mistake if your caught. It's a big fat fine around here and they do check! One should change filters often anyway. The new low sulfer & ultra low sulfer diesel contains a living organism called "Humbugs" Diesel contains a lot of water and in that water lives a organism that literally feeds off the hydrocarbons. The population of this nasty creature doubles every 20 minutes. It leaves behind a deposit (excrement) that looks like coffee grounds. The deposit clogs up filters, injectors, fuel pumps & valves at the pumps. The stations tanks have to be treated with a nasty chemical called Ka-Thon every six months. If that organism is in the stations tanks then it's in your tank. Change your filters![smilie=1:

[Storydude]

"that red dye? No sir, that's not off road diesel, it's marvel mystery oil for my IP....these old fords need extra lube for the IP. See? here's the bottle..."

;)

[GabbyM]

"that red dye? No sir, that's not off road diesel, it's marvel mystery oil for my IP....these old fords need extra lube for the IP. See? here's the bottle..."

;)

Not hardly. It's seriously bright red. And they have a tester to detect dye you can't see. That said the red stuff we get on the farm is far superior to anything I’ve ever found at a highway pump. And I used to drive a truck. Just lots of fowl fuel out there.

I modified my VW Jetta fule filter with a head to screw on a CAT 2nd stage 2 micron filter. I let it goe three yars as I was only driving six to eight thousnad miles a year. started back on a 75 mile a day commute and it soon clogged up where the engine would fall on it's face at 2500 rpm with the pedal down. Pretty scary when you think if water purges out of the filter PD injectors are $850 each.
My Jetta will be getting a new filter every spring. Along with a combine and two tractors.

Now what to do with the splash of red fuel left over in the supply tank and three fuel tanks that will not keep over the season?

[rollmyown]

Sorry for the slightly OT question, but how long will petrolium diesel keep for if stored well?(cool airtight container, away from light).

[rockrat]

I have used diesel that I have had for about 4 years, in my tractor. That said, I have Seafoam, and anitgel/injector cleaner additive also in it.

[Down South]

I've used up to B-20 before with no problems. At one time I was very interested in Bio. I almost made a Bio plant at home to convert used cooking oil to Bio. The equipment and chemicals were not that expensive and I could have generated a gallon of Bio for about .30-.40. I had access to all of the used cooking oil we used on our offshore locations.

Anyway, never start out running B100. Always start out with B10 or B20 and carry a spare fuel filter with you. You can gradually work your way up to B100 as your fuel system cleans up. The newer diesel engines have better quality O-Rings and seals and I'm not aware of any problems. Your mileage will drop a little.

Another thing is Bio gels at much warmer temps compared to #2 or #1 diesel. The reason most stations go to #1 in the winter is due to it gels at even a lower temperature.

[Pigslayer]

[QUOTE=Down South;1518137]I've used up to B-20 before with no problems. At one time I was very interested in Bio. I almost made a Bio plant at home to convert used cooking oil to Bio. The equipment and chemicals were not that expensive and I could have generated a gallon of Bio for about .30-.40. I had access to all of the used cooking oil we used on our offshore locations.

Anyway, never start out running B100. Always start out with B10 or B20 and carry a spare fuel filter with you. You can gradually work your way up to B100 as your fuel system cleans up. The newer diesel engines have better quality O-Rings and seals and I'm not aware of any problems. Your mileage will drop a little.

Another thing is Bio gels at much warmer temps compared to #2 or #1 diesel. The reason most stations go to #1 in the winter is due to it gels at even a lower temperature.[/QUOT

The newer low sulphur & ultra low sulpur gel at much higher temps now to the point where above ground suction pumps cannot pump it below 20 degrees & maybe even a little higher. The state is actually cutting it with 50% #1 kero. even though said to be illegal. The fire departments are not required to use the low sulphur.

[cajun shooter]

I have had my 2005 GMC Diesel on a product called Diesel Kleen for about 5 years now. After my first bottle I picked up a mile and a half a gallon. I then purchased the Super Chips Programmer for a cost of $400. My mileage and performance improved big time. If I keep the RPM at 2000 or less I get 20 MPH.
When I set it at the high performance position it is almost impossible to leave from a stop with out spinning the rear tires. I worn the rears out on a set of Goodyear Kevlar tires with the front having twice the tread. I did do as I always do and rotate them but the right foot is the guilty party.
I had to change my filter after getting one tank of the bio fuel. We were going 72 mph with the cruise and when I got off at a exit the truck would hardly move forward.

[Down South]

There are several products out there to raise the Cetane rating and lower the gel point. Power Service Diesel Kleen is one. Diesel Kleen can be bought local like at Walley World.
http://www.powerservice.com/dfs/default.asp?view=app

One of my favorites is Stanadyne.
http://www.fueladditiveonline.com/Fuel%20Additive/StanadyneAdditives.php

[FISH4BUGS]

I am a Mercedes Benz Diesel Die Hard. There....I said it. I have owned 240d's 300d's, 300sd's, etc. for the last 25 years. I have owned pretty much every possible body style and condition. I buy them used then drive them until the doors fall off. I usually get 300,000-400,000 miles out of them before the bodies go away.
My current one is a 1987 300d that I bought with 100,000 miles on it, and I have had it for some 8 years now....currently with 333,000 miles on it. It was truly the little old lady's Mercedes, and never saw a snowflake until I bought it.
My mechanic (of some 25 years) says that bio diesel really shoudln't be run through these cars, for in order to do it right, you need to have a pre heater for the fuel to warm it up. Conversions aren't all that expensive but availability is an issue. I drive a lot so availability is really an issue.
All in all, I never really wanted bio diesel. I suppose that if you had a regular supply, and it never got cold, it might make sense. But most of us live here in the real world where snow and cold is a regular visitor.

[GabbyM]

The newer low sulphur & ultra low sulpur gel at much higher temps now to the point where above ground suction pumps cannot pump it below 20 degrees & maybe even a little higher. The state is actually cutting it with 50% #1 kero. even though said to be illegal. The fire departments are not required to use the low sulphur.

You are working on old information there I believe. From what I've heard there is no sulfur going down any pipeline since well before the mandated switch to ULSDF. Requirements for ULSDF are so near zero that it is polluted by residual sulfur in a pipe line. This issue delayed rollout of ULSDF for quite a while as the lines were cleaning up.
They refined and pumped ULSDF and heating oil for a long time before they labeled it such. New after filters are destroyed by the slightest bit of sulfur. On the cars an after filter cost $850. I’d hate to buy one for a big truck or tractor.
You could get this sulfur easily if you pumped was was laoded as ULSDF into a farm storage tank which hadn't had enough fuel run through it to leach the sulfur out of the steel. We're a few years into it now so risk is diminishing.

[runfiverun]

since they co-mingle all the fuels going through the pipes everything would have the sulpher in it.

[Down South]

I don't think that the refineries even make a high sulfur fuel anymore. Even the red dyed fuel is ULSD now if my memory serves me correct. Of course, I could be wrong and I'm too lazy to do the research again.
Back in the day when I was doing my research on ULSD, the only difference in the tax exempt red dyed fuel is that the dye is added at the refinery to the same fuel we buy at the pump.
This information came from a guy who claimed to work at a refinery.