glass bedding the Mauser 98

[rtracy2001]

First off I love mauser actions. Right now I only have 3 or 4 rifles built on this action but I am always on the lookout for more (all could use a nice bedding job).
Anyway my latest project is to glass bed my 308:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t23/tracraym/finished308.jpg

This rifle is bult on a K. Kale Turkish Mauser that I picked up for $75 a year or so ago. Anyway as you may know the front action screw on the M98 is right in the middle of the recoil lug which makes it difficult to properly bed the recoil lug without locking the action permanetly into the stock, or having glass resin run all over the place. I was able to apply a very thin layer of bedding (not enough to call it finished) through the creative use of a clay dam and very light use of the bedding material. At this rate it will take several thin coats over a couple of weeks to get the job done. Is there a better way? how should I build the action screw dam?

P.S. Acraglass is expensive and difficult to mix up in small ammounts. Is there a better way than the little paper cups that Brownell's supplies? a better product somewhere?

[hornsurgeon]

i plug the action screw hole with clay, then bed. you will have to poen up the action screw hole in the stock again, but that's easy enough.

[rtracy2001]

So when you plug the screw hole with clay, how do you hold the action into the stock?

My dry fitting was problematic when I tried that. If the front action screw wasn't installed, the action is loose in the stock. If I installed the action screw the clay would get up inside the threads and bind the screw or just ooze all over the place inside the stock.

[gnoahhh]

I don't bother with dams or plugs, and I don't use Brownells Acraglass or their release agent either. My favorite bedding compound is West System epoxy, mainly because that's the epoxy I use for everything in my shop. I mix the epoxy with a thickening agent and liberally slather it into the stock mortise after first chiseling out a sufficient quantity of wood to create a decent pad of bedding. Everything that has a remote chance of coming in contact with the epoxy gets a liberal coating of paste wax, including the screws. I never even came close to "permatizing" one. The West System epoxy has proven good for the bedding jobs over a lot of years and many rounds fired. Admittedly I haven't used it in a high recoiling rifle as I have never had a use for any magnums, so I don't know how well it will withstand severe force.

[dragonrider]

I used release agent anywhere I did not want the epoxy to seal. Worked ok for me. Anything that oozed out was cut away with a dremel or knife. I have read about using surgical tubing to hold the action and stock together. I think you can buy it at Brownells.

[sundog]

I put two coats of Brownells release agent on the screws and install them. I also leave a 'bridge' in the barrel channel to be sure the bbl gets floated to the desired amount. After half hour to 45 minutes, back the screws out about 1/8 - 1/4 turn, then leave it for 24 hours. Works for me. Release agent is your friend!

[sundog]

One more time, release agent is your friend. I know this to be true...

[Char-Gar]

I have glass bedded a number of rifle, and several of them Mauser 98s. I don't know if this is correct, but it is what I do.

First, I glass bed the trigger guard, to give a nice smooth contact and a surface that won't compress. When that is done, I then...

1. I bed the action to the wood, very carefully to start, with and then accuracy test. I try and have contact with the first inch or so of the barrel and float the rest. When this is done and I think there are no problems, I move to the glass phase.

2. I cut away a little wood on the flat under the receiver ring, but I leave two strips of wood on the edges to support the metal during the glassing.

3. I cut away a little wood behind where the recoil lug bears to give a good solid, hard surface there.

4. I cut away a little wood around the rear tang, but here again leave a little to hold the metal while glassing.

5. I cut away a little wood ahead of the action where the barrel is supported.

6. I plug any recesses in the metal that might form a lock when glassed with modeling clay.

7. I put a two layers of aluminum "Beagle" tape on the front of the action recoil lug. This will leave about .006 space so, the metal will come out of the wood without beating it.

8. Then every metal part gets two coats of release agent.

9. I mix and apply Brownells Acuragel.

10. I put the metal into the wood using stockmakers handscrews well coated with release agent.

11. I wait two hours and then back the screws off one turn.

12. I wait until the next day and then remove the metal from the wood.

13. I remove the hand screws and use a brass punch that contacts the end of the action screw bosses in the receiver and tap the action out of the wood. I tap a little on the front and then the back, several times to keep it coming out level.

One the average, I have found this to give about a 1/4 MOA accuracy improvement over the original wood to metal bedding. But, the main advantage is a good stable mating of the wood and metal and much less possibility of the wood compressing over time.

Again there may be better or different way to do this, but this is what I do and it has worked with me for years.

Oh yes, I do put a little Beagle tap on the wood where any glass will ooze out and coat with with release agent as well. I always do this before the wood is finished.

[ipopum]

I use acragel in the green box. It is very easy to mix(1to1) and does not run like the acraglass.
Have not had any problem with glass where it should not be or the action not coming out of the stock. I have always used paste floor wax for the release agent.

[gnoahhh]

Note: when bedding the tang, leave a slight gap behind the tip of the tang. You don't want to bear tightly there. Leaving a small gap reduces the chances of the wrist splitting from recoil.

[quack1]

When I used accraglass (before they came out with accragel) I would take some wax paper and roll it into a small tube and insert it in the front screw hole of the triggerguard just far enough to keep the glass from running out. I would slowly pull it out as I seated the barreled action into the stock. Once it was out I would insert the screw (coated with release) and turn it in just enough to fully seat the action, but NOT THE WHOLE WAY to tight. Don't want to stress the action.
Next time you plan on bedding-get the gell. Much easier and less mess.
Also if you tape the front, sides and bottom of the recoil lug before you coat it with release, you will have a much easier time taking the barreled action in and out of the stock in the future.

[Mk42gunner]

I have used the regular accraglas one time-- only.

I have done several rifles with accraglas gel, it is much easier to use.

Like sundog said "Release agent is your friend." Use two coats, although I like Johnson's Paste wax, two or three coats. Whatever you use, make sure it completely covers the metal, even where you don't think it will touch the epoxy.

If you are going to do more than one action, invest in some headless stockmaker's screws. I put them in the action before setting it into the stock; then use a C-clamp to hold the action lightly in place, I don't want to put any bending force on the action. We're trying for stress free bedding, right?

A couple of layers of tape around the front, sides and bottom of the recoil lug for cleance makes life easier.

I purposely mix more epoxy than is needed, that way I can check it for when it sets up but isn't fully hardened. When that happens, I turn the screws to make sure they aren't glued in place. This is the time to trim any epoxy that has oozed out of the stock, a popsickle stick or plastic picnic knife works well.

If the stock is finished, I tape the whole thing with painters tape and newspaper-- epoxy can and will get where you don't want it.

I also bed about two inches of the barrel, then float the rest with two layers of electrical tape. I used to have a roll of 2" wide tape that was pretty thick, I only used one layer of that, but I haven't been able to find another roll of it.

Robert

[gnoahhh]

Don't you guys who use/used the original Acraglas thicken it with the floc they send with the kit? (Or maybe they don't anymore.) I can't imagine trying to control the spread of that stuff without thickening it. Without it it is nothing more than regular old straight epoxy.

[S.R.Custom]

Bedding Mausers:

1: Put scotch tape over the bottom of the lug. Using exacto knife, trim the tape so it's neatly trimmed against the lug and sticks only to the bottom of the lug.

2: Pack the threads of the action screw with Johnson's paste wax. Apply JPW or other favorite release agent to the rest of the action where it will come in contact with bedding compound.

3: Slather bedding compound into stock recoil lug area. (And wherever else you've determined that there's a need.)

4a: Insert action into stock

4b: Screw action action screw into recoil lug. As you've probably surmised at this point, you will need to poke the screw through the scotch tape. Only tighten to half-torque at this time.

5: Cocktail time. Partake in your favorite beverage until bedding compound sets up. Those of you who use a proper, fast-set epoxy might be able to get in a Rum & Coke. Those of you who use Brownell's acra-products will be on a 2-day bender.

6: Release stock from action. Remove the tape from the bottom of the recoil lug. You'll notice at this point that removing the tape gives you a few thousandths of an inch clearance under the lug when you tighten it up again. This gives you room to tighten the action against the bedding in the lug recess area even better. Clever, no?

7. Clean off release agent from action and reassemble to full torque.

Side note: The scotch tape/ wax in the threads trick pretty much works anytime you're trying to keep bedding compound out of a screw hole, regardless of wherever it happens to be.

[rtracy2001]

I purchased the regular acraglass because it was the only one in town - literally! No one seems to stock the gel and I wasn't in the mood to order one item from Brownell's.


Don't you guys who use/used the original Acraglas thicken it with the floc they send with the kit? (Or maybe they don't anymore.) I can't imagine trying to control the spread of that stuff without thickening it. Without it it is nothing more than regular old straight epoxy.

Well, it is still included in the kit, but there is absolutely no mention of what it is used for or how much to add in the instructions.

Here is a photo of my first try. You can see that I just didn't get enough bedding down, so I will have to add another coat:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/108644ef273d0c3854.jpg

This is after I knocked out the little bridge of bedding that formed over the front action screw. (you can see some of the yellow modeling clay that managed to get entombed in the glass bedding. Nope that isn't coming out)

I did use the release agent, two or three good coats allowed to dry completely between coats per instructions. I also applied masking tape to the front and sides of the recoil lug (with release agent over the tape not under). The release agent didn't work the way I thought it would. I was under the assumption that the bedding would not stick to the release agent. Turns out it sticks very well to the release agent, but the agent doesn't seem to stick to steel very well. The release agent does stick to tape. And since the tape sticks well to steel, I did have a moment or two of panic. (the tape let loose from the steel and I was then able to get the tape out of the bedding.)

[Mk42gunner]

Don't you guys who use/used the original Acraglas thicken it with the floc they send with the kit? (Or maybe they don't anymore.) I can't imagine trying to control the spread of that stuff without thickening it. Without it it is nothing more than regular old straight epoxy.

It was twenty years ago, but I am sure I used the floc. It still ran like water.


Bedding Mausers:...

5: Cocktail time. Partake in your favorite beverage until bedding compound sets up. Those of you who use a proper, fast-set epoxy might be able to get in a Rum & Coke. Those of you who use Brownell's acra-products will be on a 2-day bender. ...



I'm going to try something else next time. What that will be, I don't know yet.


I purchased the regular acraglass because it was the only one in town - literally! No one seems to stock the gel and I wasn't in the mood to order one item from Brownell's. ....

(you can see some of the yellow modeling clay that managed to get entombed in the glass bedding. Nope that isn't coming out)

I did use the release agent, two or three good coats allowed to dry completely between coats per instructions. I also applied masking tape to the front and sides of the recoil lug (with release agent over the tape not under). The release agent didn't work the way I thought it would. I was under the assumption that the bedding would not stick to the release agent. Turns out it sticks very well to the release agent, but the agent doesn't seem to stick to steel very well. The release agent does stick to tape. And since the tape sticks well to steel, I did have a moment or two of panic. (the tape let loose from the steel and I was then able to get the tape out of the bedding.)

That is one reason I don't like to use clay, the remnants look like &Y*&* when the action is taken out of the stock. I would rather use tape and wax to mark where I want the bedding compound.

Make sure you clean the release agent off the epoxy before trying again, or it will not stick to the stock.

Like I said, I like paste wax better than the blue release agent.

Robert

[gnoahhh]

If you use the old style Acraglas, give all of the raw wood that will come in contact with the epoxy a thin wash coat of the mix. That wetting out will enhance the bond. Then stir in as much of the floc as it takes to make a paste about the consistency of tooth paste or peanut butter. That is how it's done. Applying multiple coats of thin runny epoxy, and trying to contain it in position is a fool's errand. If you do have to apply a second coat, be sure to wash the shiny film off of the hardened first layer with solvent. Scuff sanding it too is a good idea. That shiny film is one (or both) of two things: remnants of whatever you used as a release compound, and what's known as the amine blush which is exuded from epoxy as it cures. Either one will prevent a good bond between the first and second coats.

In the era of the internet, there's no reason to buy the overpriced epoxy known as Acraglas from Brown-give me all your money-ell's. A little research will turn up epoxies that are as good if not better, and often cost less. Google is your friend.

[andremajic]

For an easy way to apply your epoxy, get some of those syringes that come with childrens liquid aceteminophen or tylenol.

After your epoxy has been mixed well on your mixing board, take the plunger out of the syringe, holding it upside down and pack it full of epoxy (kindof like packing a bearing)

Put the plunger in the syringe and start using it like you're putting icing on a cake. It's the neatest and easiest way to apply epoxy that I've found yet.

Clean up the syringe with vinegar or just throw it away and use a new one on a later job.

(You can still use the liquid aspirin for yourself if you don't have kids. It tastes better and works faster than the pills.)

[rtracy2001]

If you do have to apply a second coat, be sure to wash the shiny film off of the hardened first layer with solvent. Scuff sanding it too is a good idea. That shiny film is one (or both) of two things: remnants of whatever you used as a release compound, and what's known as the amine blush which is exuded from epoxy as it cures. Either one will prevent a good bond between the first and second coats.


What solvent would you recommend? Will swabbing it out with denatured alcohol be enough or do I need somehting like mineral spirits?

[gnoahhh]

Alcohol works. I always use acetone, but be careful not to get any on the stock finish.

[lesharris]

I have done several Mauser bedding jobs.
I like the Accraglass Gel not as runny as other bedding compounds.
The frony to the recoil lug gets at least 2 layers of tape,either aluminum beagle tape or the fiberglass packing type tape.I do not fill in the front action screw hole.
I do put a very liberal amount of release agent on the threads of the screw hole.
I order to bring the action to bear in the stock I use action bedding screws available from Brownell's etc.
I also coat these with a very liberal amount of release agent.Including the action.
Release agent of your choice.
I have used silicon spray ,mould release, paste wax or the Bronell's agent that comes with the kit.
After the bedding has a chance to set up,about 1 hour, I take and release a little tension off the action screws.
Have never had an action stick in place.
Usually a slight tap of the barrel on the well padded work bench and the barrel/action releases from stock.
Clean up action and stock.
Enjoy the fruits of your efforts.
Les.

[nanuk]

For an easy way to apply your epoxy, get some of those syringes that come with childrens liquid aceteminophen or tylenol.



In my province, we have a "free needle exchange" for drug addicts. (diabetics need not apply....) One day I asked a pharmacist if I brought in a needle, could I get new one. He said, don't bother, and handed me a new one across the counter. (this would have been about a 10ml syringe? 'bout the diameter of a pencil. Probably could have gotten a bigger one if I asked!)


oh.. and I'm NOT a drug addict, althought I'm a Coke-aholic!

[bcp477]

I use Devcon Plastic Steel (epoxy), or other good quality (steel- reinforced) putty epoxy. MUCH easier than any of the more liquid products - and just as strong. NO dams needed....simple paste wax works perfectly as a release agent.
Drill some 1/8" wide x 1/8" deep holes in the bedding areas, after thorough cleaning and degreasing, for a mechanical lock with the bedding compound.

I bed both the trigger guard/ magazine box (I do this first)......and then the receiver / tang area and first 2" or so of the barrel (on Mausers).

I've done a bunch of them - probably 10 - 12 Mausers.....and many "modern" sporters as well. Never had a problem with any of them.

The only drawback to the bedding compound I use is the short working time. But, planning and preparation get me over that hurdle easily.