Newbie looking to begin casting

[bsczar1]

Howdy Y'all,

I just got back into reloading this year, and I recently discovered I can cast my own boolits instead of having to buy plated bullets. I reload for pistol: 9mm, .40 S&W, & .45 ACP. This all started with looking into more cost effective ways to reload so I could shoot more often; first I looked at buying hard cast vs plated. After asking a few questions, the father of a friend is sending his brand new Lee 10# production pot down for $35, along with some molds to look at with the option to buy. He was going to get into it, but then found he could buy them off his friends for a cheap enough price. I have an email out on a turkey fryer burner for $20 off Craig's List, and am looking for a used cast iron dutch oven for smelting. I have a temporary source for wheel weights with permanent sources in the works. My plan is to go with Lee 6 cavity TL molds with Xlox lube, and I was planning to water drop, but after reading a little in the forums I may need to rethink this. I realize now I have a lot to learn. I just wanted to stop by and say "Hi" for now. Any initial advice or direction will be greatly appreciated. I will be reading here as well as the lasc.us website with the Joe Brennan and Glen Fryxell books. I'm just in the learning stage now, but I hope to acquire my set up and start casting within the next couple of months.

[stubshaft]

Good luck and welcome.

[303Guy]

Welcome aboard bsczar1. :drinks:

I once cast and loaded for pistol somewhere in the dim and distant past.

Umm .... your handle sounds a lot like "Bazaar one"!:mrgreen:

[Lizard333]

Not a bad sounding start. It looks as though you have sound start and you are looking to doing thing in the future. Good! This addiction can get crazy but take your time and read all you can. I found that I don't need to water drop my boolits but do out of conscience. I would defiantly water drop your 9 and 40, as the are higher pressure than your 45. For my pistol loads like yours I'm using 50/50 clip on WW to Stick on WW. It allows you use you soft lead and save the harder clip on WW's for rifle or magnum rounds.

Welcome!!!

[725]

Welcome. Don't be shy about asking questions. There are so many good guys here with vast amounts of experience. Rolling your own is a hoot. Have fun. Just a quick common sense note. Make sure your burner is firmly established and that here is no chance of rocking/tipping, etc. Cast in a well ventilated location, and don't let the dog/kids get under foot. Best of luck.

[Bret4207]

Do yourself a favor and start with a single or 2 cav mould. Don't put anything in the mould but hot lead allot- no magic snake oil mould release or the like. Beyond that all you need is a heat source, pot and ladle or BP as you located, a spoon for the dross, a dry wood stick to stir and flux with and an old cotton towel to drop the boolits on.

I will address your first problem ahead of time- you need to clean your mould really well, and it's not hot enough. Stop looking at the fresh cast boolits, standing there with the mould open, empty and cooling. Control your mould temp with your casting tempo, it wants to be hot.

Have fun!

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Welcome, and get ready to have some fun! I haven't been casting that long (couple of years) and when I first found this site, most of what I said was...... WHAT? Lead has to be hard to push it fast,,,, they said it didn't...WHAT? You don't need mold release. WHAT! Fit of the boolit is KING. WHAT? All I had read and learned about from others turned out to be wives tales or just baloney........ Read a whole bunch and ask questions. This place will get you casting some great boolits with excellent accuracy. Wait till you find the "group buy" section for molds.....

[mdi]

Welcome to the addiction! If I were to make any suggestions I'd say start with casting a 225 or 230 grain round nose for the 45 ACP, in a 1 or 2 cavity mold. The 45 is fairly easy to reload and cast for and it's been reloaded so much that nearly all the possible problems have been addressed, and the answers to those problems are available here, or in Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. I've read of a bunch of problems casting for the 9mm (high pressure round, feeding and leading) and, though not as many, the 40 S&W (a post about 9mm almost every day). Go with the 45 ACP first, learning all the stuff about reloading for a semi-auto then try the 9mm and .40 S&W...

[bsczar1]

Thanks for all the welcomes and advice. It does make sense to start with 2 cavity molds to learn on and step up to 6 cavity molds later if I decide I need to. My first decision/question is should I use the Lee TL style or the regular lube groove style? I was hoping to not have to size by using the TL molds. Besides, the molds my friend's father is sending along may fill my needs so I may not have to buy molds. We'll see. However, I was hoping to forego the sizing/pan lubing steps, and just go from tumble lube to reloading.

I'll have to look into getting that Lyman Cast Bullet handbook. I almost bought a muffin pan last night, but I had read that the lead muffins don't fill the Lee pot, or melt, as well as the rectangular ingots or corn shaped ones. Is there any truth to this?

My handle is play on my name (initials are BS, and my last name begins with Czar), but it also supposed to sound like "bizarre one".

[Lizard333]

Thanks for all the welcomes and advice. It does make sense to start with 2 cavity molds to learn on and step up to 6 cavity molds later if I decide I need to. My first decision/question is should I use the Lee TL style or the regular lube groove style? I was hoping to not have to size by using the TL molds. Besides, the molds my friend's father is sending along may fill my needs so I may not have to buy molds. We'll see. However, I was hoping to forego the sizing/pan lubing steps, and just go from tumble lube to reloading.

I'll have to look into getting that Lyman Cast Bullet handbook. I almost bought a muffin pan last night, but I had read that the lead muffins don't fill the Lee pot, or melt, as well as the rectangular ingots or corn shaped ones. Is there any truth to this?

My handle is play on my name (initials are BS, and my last name begins with Czar), but it also supposed to sound like "bizarre one".

I personally am a fan of the regular lube style but I also have a Lyman 4500 to lube and size my boolets. If your don't have a lube sizer than the TL style will probly be the cheapest to start out with.

Look at the stick at the top of the page and read the Fryxell handbook, free. Lots of good info in addtion to the Lyman Manual.

Don't get a muffin pan if you are using the Lee bottom pour, as they will not fit. Get yourself the Lyman 1lb ingot mold or try to find a corn muffing mold.

[mdi]

Muffin Pan? My muffin pan drops ingots 2 1/2" dia on the big side. Wheel weight alloy weighs 2 to 2 1/2 lbs. and fit my 4-20. Also, you can use xlox/alox on standard lube groove bulets. As far as sizing, you'll have to measure your bullets and know the groove diameter of the barrel and if the loaded round passes the "thunk" test...

[bsczar1]

Muffin Pan? My muffin pan drops ingots 2 1/2" dia on the big side. Wheel weight alloy weighs 2 to 2 1/2 lbs. and fit my 4-20.

Yeah, it was a 12 muffin pan with muffins about 2.5" in diameter for $2.80 at the resale shop. I think what I read was they are not conducive to loading the pot up to max capacity as they can only be stacked leaning tower of pizza style, which leaves a lot of empty space in the pot.

[AndyC]

I have an email out on a turkey fryer burner for $20 off Craig's List, and am looking for a used cast iron dutch oven for smelting.
For $10 more, you could buy a brand new fish-fryer (same thing as a turkey fryer, just smaller aluminum pots that come with it) from Bass Pro, if you have one nearby.

Dutch oven - try your nearest Goodwill store.

Wheel-weights - grab all you can for a rainy day. They're getting scarcer by the day as states phase them out in favor of steel, iron, zinc, etc.

Unless you're planning on buying a lube-sizer, start with the tumble-lube molds and a Lee sizing kit; they're inexpensive enough.

[MtGun44]

HAH!

I literally laughed out loud at Bret's post, because it is SO right on!

Read Bret's post three times in a row and make notes!

Remember, you didn't clean he mold well enough and it isn't hot enough. . . . . . THE first time
answer to 90%+ of newbies!

Good start going there in your plan - read what Glen says and believe it.

Bill

[Sonnypie]

Newbie looking to begin casting?

GO BACK! GO BACK!
IT'S A BOTTOMLESS PIT!
GO BACK!

[MtGun44]

NOW Sonnie - relax, don't scare the man.

It's a NICE bottomless pit.

Bill

[bsczar1]

For $10 more, you could buy a brand new fish-fryer (same thing as a turkey fryer, just smaller aluminum pots that come with it) from Bass Pro, if you have one nearby.

Dutch oven - try your nearest Goodwill store.

Wheel-weights - grab all you can for a rainy day. They're getting scarcer by the day as states phase them out in favor of steel, iron, zinc, etc.

Unless you're planning on buying a lube-sizer, start with the tumble-lube molds and a Lee sizing kit; they're inexpensive enough.

There's a Bass Pro just across the border. That unit is 58,000 BTU, I though I read somewhere you want at least 100,000 BTU, but I could be wrong. I have checked every Goodwill, Salvation Army and Thrift within a 10 mile radius, but I'll keep checking them. I gotta look into the cost of the lube sizer; if it's not real expensive I may do both that and TL.

[Sonnypie]

NOW Sonnie - relax, don't scare the man.

It's a NICE bottomless pit.

Bill

If you say so, Bill. :lol:

My house is on the left....

http://www.aroundtheinterwebs.com/wp-content/uploads/sinkholes_guatemala2.jpg

[whisler]

I found a nice stainless steel pot at Goodwill for cheap. Should work as well as cast. Just stay away from aluminum.

[rak1]

+1 on Bret. Clean mold and not hot enought. Ask me how I know.
Dick

[bsczar1]

I did print up the Fryxell book today, but I have not figured out how to print up the Joe Brennan book yet. Seeing I can't cast yet, I figured I'd at least do some reloading, so I just finished another 100 rounds of 9mm, and I have 200 .40 cases in the tumbler. As far as bullets, I have 800 plated 9mm and 300 plated .40 to get through before I will need to cast some.

I did read about problems with cast iron smelters, especially dutch ovens made for food that can crack, so I may go stainless, or I have an offer from a gracious member on a steel propane pot that I may take up. Either way I'm still a month or two away from casting, so I have time to get it figured out and all put together.

Thank you all again for the warm welcome and the advice and direction. I can see I'll be spending a lot of time here, maybe even as much as I spend over at Armed Badger, a forum for WI Concealed Carry.

[Bret4207]

You can tumble lube non TL designs, so don't get hung up on TL designs. They are a "sometimes" proposition- sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. As far as the BTU's, I cast using a stainless pot and 1100 watt hot plate, I used a Coleman stove for years. Lead alloys melt at 650-750 degrees, I don't know if you need a bazillion BTUs. just to melt lead.

The first Brennan book is full of opinion based fallacies, the vast majority of the second book comes directly from these pages. Do as you wish, but the Lyman book is the standard.

[youngda9]

Welcome.

[Jal5]

Welcome and as said before it is addicting but a fun addition to the hobby.

Check out several sources on YouTube for videos about casting and compare that information to what you read here. those videos helped me out at first a lot- guess I am a visual learner. Better would be if you can find someone who already casts and watch him once. Be safe. Joe

[bsczar1]

The first Brennan book is full of opinion based fallacies, the vast majority of the second book comes directly from these pages. Do as you wish, but the Lyman book is the standard.

The Brennan book, I belive, is up to number 3 now. Also, I see that the Lyman is up to edition 4, but I was reading (on this sight somewhere IIRC) that the 3rd edition is better than the 4th. Should I look for the 3rd or just go with whatever I can get cheaper, either 3rd or 4th? I know the correct answer is probably "get both", but if I had to buy just one...?

BTW, I got a good laugh on the typical questions newbies ask. I knew about cleaning the molds, and quite frankly I was more worried about the mold getting too hot, not about it not being hot enough to cast good boolits, but it makes sense. I'll keep that in mind.

[Bret4207]

Brennan used to be a member here, he was banned due to his inability to play well with others. Your best bet is Lyman #3 IMO. It may not have the latest powders, but it has the old reliables that simply WORK!

[MtGun44]

OK Sonny - THAT is a bottomless pit and it looks real bad.

Is that real or photoshopped? I have seen a bunch of sinkholes open up in
FL when I lived there but nothing even remotely that deep. I'm guessing
photoshopped hole into a real sinkhole collapse pic.

I got a real belly laugh out of that one!

Bill

[rollmyown]

Welcome aboard.

Get yourself a flat type electric hotplate to preheat you mold. It's like it's been said lots of times here, hot and clean molds are key to good boolits.

Enjoy!

[mroliver77]

My smelting setup is a salvaged burner out of a gas hot water heater inside 1/2 of a water tank. The crucible (pot) is a freon tank with the top cut out. The crucible sets inside the tank half, allowing the heat to soak in the whole pot instead of just the bottom. It has a lid to keep heat in. I use muffin ingots and they fit my 10lb just fine thank you.

Oh ya, you put too much Alox on them boolits! Thin it a lot before using next time.

And, welcome!
Jay

[MBTcustom]

I could be wrong, but I think that sink hole is the real thing. I saw it on the news back when all the earthquakes were happening. I dont remember where it happened but that is one big freakin' hole! In fact the folks on this forum could probably fill it up with the money they have spent on money and time saving doodads for this hobby!

[mdi]

Yeah, it was a 12 muffin pan with muffins about 2.5" in diameter for $2.80 at the resale shop. I think what I read was they are not conducive to loading the pot up to max capacity as they can only be stacked leaning tower of pizza style, which leaves a lot of empty space in the pot.

Don't know about the other fellers here, but I don't know of any way to fill the Lee pot to 100% (or even 80%) prior to melting. I just put 6 or 8 muffins in my pot and when that melts down add some more, no big deal, and many (or most) times I don't put 20 lbs. of lead in my 20 lb. pot. I mostly cast 240 to 265 gr. .44 bullets and after 15 to 18 lbs. I'm ready for a break and add some more muffins...

[Echo]

+1 on the regular loob groove boolits. I TL some 358242, IIRC, for popcorn loads. Those little pills are a bother to try to run through the Star or the Lachmiller (forerunner of the RCBS LAM), so TL'ing was tried, and works perfectly. And when you get a loob/sizer, you can decide for yourself whether it is worth having. I use my Lachmiller's mainly for GC pistol and rifle boolits.

[drklynoon]

If the TL is working for you and you don't want the expense of a luberisizer then Lee makes bullet sizing dies that are relativley inexpensive. As far as your melting pot, I got mine at a tractor supply joint and it hasn't cracked. I don't sit it cold on a hot stove either I slowly put the heat to it over a ten minute period.

[bsczar1]

At this point I do not have any molds, but there will be a few with the LEE 10# pot I am getting. I did get that turkey fryer today. It's pretty heavy duty, so I may not even have to modify it or fabricate extra bracing. I just hope it works. I'll get it out tomorrow and hook up the propane tank to verify it does work. The burner has never been used, and he used the the 30 quart pot for brewing beer, which will turn out to be a good gumbo pot, so it looks like a I got once heck of a deal.

I am reading the Fryxell book, so I have not made any decisions on TL vs lube groove yet. I'll probably end up with both. I did look into lubrisizers on ebay, but I was under the impression I could just get dies that would work on my single stage press (Rock Chucker) without having to buy a separate piece of equipment. Is this the case? I did not realize a lubrisizer is a press, and not just dies.

One other question: eventually (within the next few months) I will get a 1911 in addition to my S&W M&P .45, it is safe to assume that I'll end up with different molds for each gun? I also plan to get another 9mm, so I'm wondering if people use the same bullet for multiple pistols, or is it normal to have one bullet type/mold for each firearm due to bore size, barrel length, what the firearm likes to be fed, and etc?

[Bret4207]

Hard to say if you'll need a different boolit for the 1911 or not. Maybe, maybe not. Most of us I'm aware of just try it and see first off. Your issue will be feeding more than anything else. GO with a mould designed to feed well and that's a good start.

And yes, you can use Lee sizer dies in your single stage to size and apply gas checks. My experience so far has been that TLing standard boolits works fine as long as the lube is up to the job. Sometimes it takes a better lube than Lees Mule Snot (Liquid Alox).

[Lizard333]

I personally had several mod in the calibers I shoot. Do I NEED to? Probly not. For your 45 I would start with a round nose because you are least likely to encounter feed problems. Some 1911's can be a little picky. You find that guys specifically look for molds that fit both 9mm and 38/357. They are only a couple thousandth different. If you TL the lee has dies that mount on your press that you can push thru and size. It sounds like your doing your homework.

[bsczar1]

Why does the system log me out almost every time I try to post? I had a post all written, it logged me out, and I lost the entire post. This is extremely frustrating.

I'll post later with an update of what I have acquired so far.

[462]

Sign in -- upper right area of home page -- and check the keep me signed in box. It always keeps me signed in, and allows me to take forever to compose and edit a one word reply.

[bsczar1]

I do not have that option, but I did click the "remember me" box.

Anyhow, I did get that turkey fryer for $20. The burner is new/never used, and it works great. To boot, my buddy wants to buy the pot for $10, and it came with a new marinade injector, which I was planning to buy, so the whole deal cost me $10 unless I just give my buddy the 30 qt stock pot.

As mentioned, I printed the Fryxell book, and since then I have bought the Lyman CB Handbook, 3rd Edition, and I printed portions of the Brennan book. I also got the Lee 10# production pot brand new for $35, but he did not get the dies pulled out of "storage", so I'll have to wait to check them out on 1-21 at the gun show. If he doesn't have what I need, then I plan to buy some Lee molds. That Lee pot is smaller than I expected, and the muffin ingots may or may not fit in it. As it stands, I am still looking for a smelting pot at the thrift stores, I just have not gotten lucky yet.

The Lyman 4500 is going to have to wait for now. I just plan to begin with tumble lubing and (if needed) sizing with Lee sizer dies on my Rock Chucker because I just dropped a bunch of cash on a Lee Classis Cast Turret set up. If that doesn;t work, then eventually I'll step up to a lubrisizer.

I have not decided on TL or lube groove bullets yet, and I am still learning, so that is why I am still uncommitted to a certain design. I am leaning towards TL, but if I decide later I want the lube groove design, then I have to buy even more dies. I could get the LG now, and just tumble lube them for now. I just need to learn more before I decide. I suppose I could just get both and be done with it....

[bsczar1]

OK, another question. First I have to develop where I am coming from. I plan to use Lee molds and sizer dies if needed. However, I may end up just getting some used molds, so this is yet TBD, but I'd still plan to use Lee sizer dies. I plan to TL with the Recluse formula: 45/45/10. I know the method I plan to use to slug my barrels, which I plan to do soon, so:

Let's say after slugging my barrel I find I need .002" over what is normal for that caliber, let's say I need .403" for a .40 S&W, and the bullet molds are typically .401", or for a .45 ACP it's .454" and the typical mold size is .452", am I then stuck trying to get custom molds that are bigger and sizing down, or is there a way to size up? In other words, is there a way for me to take the "normal"cast boolit and make it larger in diameter by sizing with Lee dies i.e. .401" and make it a .403"? Do the boolits just typically come out of the mold larger than stated and always need to be sized down?

I've got roughly 75 pounds of WW I have to go pick up next week, for free, and I am working on other sources. I am getting close to getting ready to start casting, but I'm still a few weeks away. In the mean time I am continuing to learn, and this site is helping tremendously.

[drklynoon]

The easiest method for making your molds drop bigger is a method called "Beagling" there is a sticky covering this method. Another way which is pretty easy with a lee mold is to lap out the mold using a cast boolit a screw and fine grit (400) lapping compound. Basically cast a bullet stick a screw in the base of it empregnate it with the compound and put it back in your mold. Spin the boolit and recheck the mold. This method takes a while and is permanate. One older question you asked was about different molds for different guns in the same caliber. I find that Semi-Wad cutter boolits work well in most cases. The 1911 is feed sensitive but the proper magazine or seating depth will usually cure most of these issues.

[mktacop]

I'm new to casting as well. FWIW, I decided to get regular lube-goove molds and am pan-lubing my boolits. I primarily decided on this method after a friend showed me how he tumble-lubed his boolits. I personally find the pan-lubing method to be easier and cleaner. Welcome to the club!

[bsczar1]

I am leaning towards tumble lubing regular lube groove bullets, but it really depends on which molds I get used from a buddy's dad and which I buy new. I won't know what used molds he has until Jan. 21st. If I buy new, I may buy TL molds, or I may just stick with lube groove. Pan lubing just seems like a lot of work, whereas TL seems easy if the initial mixture is made right. The first step is to slug my barrels, which I hope to do by the end of this weekend. Then I still have time to figure out what molds I need and need to look for.

[bsczar1]

OK, I got my pistol barrels slugged tonight. I used a dial caliper (Mitutoyo) to get initial measurements, but I'm taking them to work tomorrow to use a Starret micrometer to verify. I do not expect to get different readings. Here are my readings:

9mm (Kahr CM9) .355"
.40 S&W (Sig P239) .401"
.45ACP (S&W M&P) .452"

Given these readings, does it sound like I can just use standard size bullet molds (356,401, 452)?
The Lee TL molds should work if I decide to go that route, right?
Do molds typically drop at slightly bigger than listed size, or they usually pretty exacting?
If I am tumble lubing regular lube groove bullets will an exact fit (.401" for the .40 Cal. or .452" for the .45) with tumble lube be OK, or do I need to size to .402" & .453"?

[mroliver77]

It's a **** shoot as to size with Lee molds. Most I have do come in close to the target diameter. Different alloys will cause boolits to end up a touch bigger or smaller.

I have not found any .45 autoloader that .452 will not work.
I would start with the .45 as the other two calibers can be more tricky. I would get a normal lube groove boolit. If it drops at .454 or less make a dummy round or two and see if it will feed and chamber, if it does, lube and load some. I started with a .45 Lee TL boolit using liquid ear wax for lube with ok results. Like most I used way too much alox!

Any steel or stainless steel pan/pot will work for smelting! Rust is not a problem! Cast iron is unnecessary.

I cast muffins 1/2 to 3/4 full. They work fine in the 10lb Lee pot.

You also need a cake pan to catch cut sprues. A crappy cotton blanket from goodwill to catch boolits. A piece of oak, ash or hickory to rap the sprue plate ( I use a bar of solder). I like a Tupperware or other good plastic bowl with lid for tumble lubing. I buy any (if price is right) good bowl or box with snap lid at Goodwill to store boolits, cases, moulds etc.
J

[bsczar1]

Yeah, I pretty much decided to use a stainless steel (or plain steel) pot once they get one in at the thrift store; I go there every day after work. I didn't think of looking for tuppeware for storing boolits-I usually just use ice cream buckets and cottage cheese tubs for my reloading needs. I plan to get a cookie sheet for lube drying (or pan lubing if I ever decide to go that route); a bread pan will work good for catching sprues.

For fluxing, I saw some people prefer to use saw dust. Is it safe to assume that saw dust should be from wood only, and not from plywood?

[Lizard333]

I use all kinds of sawdust. The stuff from plywood probly is not the best to breathe cause of the glues used but other than that and a little more smoke, it works just as fine in my experience. I get a grocery bag full from home depot. Free.

[adrians]

get the lyman #3 book, i have both #3 & #4 and the former is alot dirtier than the latter if that tells ya something....... welcome aboard :twisted: :popcorn: :evil:

[bsczar1]

I have edition #3, and I plan to get #4 as well. I have yet to read the chapter on fluxing, so at this point I know just enough to be a danger to myself, but not enough to embark on my first smelting session.

[bsczar1]

OK, here's an update and some more questions. I got 3 molds: one from here on cast boolits and two from a gun show yesterday. However, the .45 ACP bullet mold (Lee 452-190-SWC) is not what I wanted, so I may try to trade or sell to get the one I want: either a Lee TC or RN mold. Also, I scored on some lead: 25 lbs of scuba weights for $15. Plus I got 80 lbs of wheel weights for free, though I'm sure a bunch is zinc and I'll lose some weight to steel clips as well. That brings me to my questions:

1. The scuba lead: is there any way to know what it's made of, or should I just test its hardness and add accordingly? We have a Brinnel tester at work. I assume it will be similar to SOWW, soft stuff.

2. For alloying, I plan to add pure lead to WW and to linotype to get what I need. I'm still learning here, so any pointers will be appreciated. The other possibility is to buy some 95/5 or some antimony lead for alloying.

3. Would one of those old steel milk jugs that people use for decoration in their yards make a good smelting pot if I cut it down and put a handle on it?

4. As far as a thermometer, can I just get a grill thermometer that goes up to 750 degrees, rather than spending close to $40 for a Lyman that goes to 1000 degrees? I really shouldn't have to have my melt higher than 650-700 degrees, right?