View Full Version : The 'Howitzer shell'
A member that I do a little horse trading with from time to time sent me three molds to borrow for a bit. One is a brand new NOE 429215 five banger. Another is a brand new NOE 313640 four banger. Neither of these have ever seen lead.
The one I can't put down, however, is an old Lyman 462560. This thing is unbelieveable. I can't wait to get a few dozen made up and work up some loads with them.
http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/p10100054-e1324345122897.jpg
Just for comparison, I layed a .44 Special round next to it.
http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/p10100044-e1324345033862.jpg
stubshaft
12-19-2011, 09:55 PM
LOL - Some noob will be asking for the COL in their 45 ACP with this one.:kidding:
MtGun44
12-19-2011, 09:55 PM
That is the ADULT sized boolit, for sure!
Bill
btroj
12-19-2011, 10:07 PM
Get that thing much over 1200 fps and you won't be able to stop it. Shot straight down and it might start a war with China when it comes out the other side!
That is one serious hunk of lead.
mpmarty
12-19-2011, 10:22 PM
And what'cha gonna shoot it in?
LOL - Some noob will be asking for the COL in their 45 ACP with this one.:kidding:
Stub, I like to fell out when I saw that! That's funny!!
Wha'da'ya' mean, ya' can't get 'em in the magazine? You sure you got 'em seated deep enough?
beagle
12-19-2011, 10:51 PM
Ah, the old "Thor's Hammer". I have one that's been HP'd and opened slightly. Works wonders in my .458 X 2" and even feeds and shoots well in my .45/70 Marlin. The onlt bullet that I had luck with when I was abusing myself with the Number 1 in .458 Win Mag.
That's a lucky acquisition./beagle
Ya' know, Beag, that begs a question: How do you suppose Garrett Ammunition gets a 540 grain boolit up to 1700 FPS in a .45-70 case and keep it at 35K PSI? I sure would like to know what kinda' powder they're usin'. You gotta' stuff a lot of that boolit in .45-70 case to get it to cycle in a Marlin.
feets
12-20-2011, 12:57 AM
Ya' know, Beag, that begs a question: How do you suppose Garrett Ammunition gets a 540 grain boolit up to 1700 FPS in a .45-70 case and keep it at 35K PSI? I sure would like to know what kinda' powder they're usin'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Assisted_Projectile
:Fire:
stubshaft
12-20-2011, 03:45 AM
I used to play around with this boolit in my .458 Tropical, easy to load fill the case with 3031 to the base of the boolit and let her rip. It was more accurate than the 457406 in my rifle. Never bothered with penetration tests as my 45/70 with the 405 RCBS will blow through from any angle.
redneckdan
12-20-2011, 01:05 PM
Ya' know, Beag, that begs a question: How do you suppose Garrett Ammunition gets a 540 grain boolit up to 1700 FPS in a .45-70 case and keep it at 35K PSI? I sure would like to know what kinda' powder they're usin'. You gotta' stuff a lot of that boolit in .45-70 case to get it to cycle in a Marlin.
Ever heard the race car euphemism 'tipping the jug'? It's kinda like that.
That and their chrono numbers tend to be a little on the optimistic side. I worked as a range officer at an engineering school. I have seen just about every high end round launched across the chrono. That's what happens when inquisitive young MEs have a little money to burn. Very few if any live up to the marketing hype.
Some day I would like to have a 459 taylor and a copy of that mold.
Ronbo256
12-20-2011, 01:09 PM
How much unique should I use with this bullet in a .45 ACP? It's a WWI pistol so I don't want to hotrod it too much, 1200 FPS should be fine. :kidding: I just couldn't resist, that is one huge cavity!
beagle
12-20-2011, 04:03 PM
You know, when I was shooting that cannon, I tried some AA2200 in it with a recommended load. Turned up 2200 FPS and was the nastiest load I ever shot in it. Even nastier than the 500 grain factory "solids".
One problem that I encountered with it in both the .45/70 and .458 X 2" is that it takes up too much of the available powder space. I had my .458 X 2" throated to barely accept the cartridge with a crimp behind the driving band. With this seating, it's hard to put enough 3031in it to really get the velocities you need.
But, even with the limited capacity, it turns up sufficient velocity combined with the weight to knock anything flat on the NA continent.
The Number 1 Tropical is throated so that it looks like the on ramp on a freeway and you can seat both the 462560 and also the 45-500-FN RCBS way out and get good accuracy and to tell the truth, these gave me the best velocity./beagle
beagle
12-20-2011, 04:05 PM
Darnned if I can figure that out either. I think they use a Small Rifle primer in their monster loads. This will help some but I don't have any of their brass./beagle
Ever heard the race car euphemism 'tipping the jug'? It's kinda like that.
That and their chrono numbers tend to be a little on the optimistic side. I worked as a range officer at an engineering school. I have seen just about every high end round launched across the chrono. That's what happens when inquisitive young MEs have a little money to burn. Very few if any live up to the marketing hype.
Some day I would like to have a 459 taylor and a copy of that mold.
felix
12-20-2011, 04:20 PM
Might use some of that new powder Larry is talking about? You know, that Revolutionary stuff. ... felix
MBTcustom
12-20-2011, 04:36 PM
I have that mold!
Dad used to load for a guy in AZ that shot a ruger #1 in .458 winmag. Said the guy was a huge man, and shooting that ruger off-hand, he could ring a 6" steel plate @ 600 yards every time. He said the guy hardly ever missed. Had a Lyman vernier sight on that rifle.
Any ways, dad has handed down all his reloading stuff to me and that mold is definitely the grandady super-slam of the lot. Someday I want to get a ruger #1 in 458winmag and try to duplicate that scenario.
x101airborne
12-20-2011, 11:30 PM
:kidding: so sizing down to .451 is not practical? Even with bullseye it wouldnt't work?:kidding:
geargnasher
12-21-2011, 01:11 AM
Ya' know, Beag, that begs a question: How do you suppose Garrett Ammunition gets a 540 grain boolit up to 1700 FPS in a .45-70 case and keep it at 35K PSI? I sure would like to know what kinda' powder they're usin'. You gotta' stuff a lot of that boolit in .45-70 case to get it to cycle in a Marlin.
Medium-burning "Ball" powder. Probably some of the new stuff.
Gear
Reload3006
12-21-2011, 01:27 PM
lol Jim is there many elephants in VA?
Sonnypie
12-21-2011, 09:00 PM
I can tell by looking at it it will cast undersized.
Better use a LOT of butter to flux the lead. [smilie=p:
lol Jim is there many elephants in VA?
It ain't the elephants I'm concerned about, it's the squirrels. These mountain squirrels up here can shell an old car and eat the engine right out of it. :shock:
I worked up some pressure test loads (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=137300)today and fired them. I happened to find one of the boolits that just barely made it through a log in the wood pile when it ran out of gas. Except for loosing the gas check and some swelling at the shoulder, it was in relatively good shape. As cast weight is 540, this one was 530.5 gr.
http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/p10100035-e1324577288108.jpg
wiljen
12-22-2011, 02:26 PM
Jim when you get done with it, I wanna borrow it long enough to cast a couple 1000.
MGySgt
12-22-2011, 04:55 PM
Jim when you get done with it, I wanna borrow it long enough to cast a couple 1000.
What you have an extra ton of lead sitting doing nothing????
All ya' need is 155 pounds.
MGySgt
12-22-2011, 05:36 PM
Actually Jim - I would like a few hundred of them to shoot out of my No 1 (45/70) just for fun!
Olevern
12-22-2011, 06:22 PM
Jim,
looks like it's taking the rifling o.k., your bump up musta worked well. How accurate are they?
Y'all might wanna read THIS (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=137185) before you get all dancy about gettin' involved with these things.
Vern, been workin' on developing pressure window data today and still haven't found the top yet. Haven't even started loading for accuracy testing yet.
Olevern
12-22-2011, 07:59 PM
Hope your shoulder holds out, Keep us informed. I'd offer my shoulder to help, but it's busy working on a load for the 25-20 :)
Trust me, Vern. It's a lot easier to move 130 pounds than it is 230 pounds.
lunicy
12-22-2011, 08:49 PM
:kidding: so sizing down to .451 is not practical? Even with bullseye it wouldnt't work?:kidding:
just start at 10gr and keep going up by a half a grain until you see signs of overpressure.:bigsmyl2:
Old Coot
12-22-2011, 11:31 PM
I have that Lyman mold for the 45 cal 550 gr. bullet. Mine never dropped anything undersized either out of ACWW or Lyman #2. I sized them down to .460 lubed with Javelina Lube and loaded a nd shot them. The most accurate load was 68gr. of IMR3031. They shot exceedingly well out of my 458 Model 70 restocked to weigh around 11.5 lbs, but they beat the wholly bejezus out of me. I could keep three in .75 inch, and then a week later I would shoot another group. Since I have never been back to Alaska to hunt Brown Bears again I haven't loaded any more or those up. With either of those alloys they did penetrate like a house afire, and If I remember correctly they chronographed around 1860 fps. but don't hold me to that figure.
Brodiehttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/smilies/custom/redneck.gif
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